Forcecage reads: "A prison in the shape of a box can be up to 10 feet on a side, creating a solid barrier that prevents any matter from passing through it and blocking any spells cast into or out from the area." So does this means there is no way anything can escape it for it's duration? No teleportation, no disintegration, no anti-magic field? I've searched high and low for this answer, and found nothing...... Thank you
My question is... can you use gaseous form to get out of the cage variant of this spell? Technically it’s magic... but it’s not teleport... so is it that simple?
My question is... can you use gaseous form to get out of the cage variant of this spell? Technically it’s magic... but it’s not teleport... so is it that simple?
it prevents any matter from passing through. Not just any solid matter.
Well, if you read to end, you see that you can teleport out if you make a save:
”If the creature tries to use teleportation or interplanar travel to leave the cage, it must first make a Charisma saving throw. On a success, the creature can use that magic to exit the cage. On a failure, the creature can't exit the cage and wastes the use of the spell or effect. The cage also extends into the Ethereal Plane, blocking ethereal travel.”
So Since the cage is invisible, meaning you can see the outside of it, something as simple as misty step can get you out if you make the save.
But the spell clearly states "blocking ANY spells cast into or out from the area." So if you're inside the box, how can Disintegrate work if ANY spell cast into or out of is blocked? This is where I'm trying to get an official ruling, and I find it hard to believe this topic has never come up in the past with such a powerful spell.
If you're inside the box, how can it not be considered cast inside into the area? That makes no sense, since the only place any magical energy being cast is into the area you're trapped in.
The OP's original question was about the Forcecage 10' x 10' box, not the 20' x 20' cage with half inch diameter bars
Same rule applies. If You can see your destination, you can teleport to it with misty step. Just like you can misty step past a wall of force. The wording of forcecage means you can’t cast a spell through the barrier so people on one side can’t cast at people on the other side. You can still cast freely on the inside, you just can’t target anyone on the outside. Teleport spells, however, don’t target the other side of the cage, they target self, so you are not casting it through the barrier. And the essence of teleportation is moving from one spot to another without occupying anyplace in between.
Also in the description of disintegrate, it specifically says you can use it on something constructed of magical force, like wall of force. Forcecage is just a few walls of force stuck together.
The OP's original question was about the Forcecage 10' x 10' box, not the 20' x 20' cage with half inch diameter bars
Same rule applies. If You can see your destination, you can teleport to it with misty step. Just like you can misty step past a wall of force. The wording of forcecage means you can’t cast a spell through the barrier so people on one side can’t cast at people on the other side. You can still cast freely on the inside, you just can’t target anyone on the outside. Teleport spells, however, don’t target the other side of the cage, they target self, so you are not casting it through the barrier. And the essence of teleportation is moving from one spot to another without occupying anyplace in between.
Also in the description of disintegrate, it specifically says you can use it on something constructed of magical force, like wall of force. Forcecage is just a few walls of force stuck together.
No....Just no. There is a clear difference between the 10' x 10' box and the 20' x 20' cage. There is even a small paragraph which I highlighted in the OP that clearly distinguishes itself differently than the 20' x 20' cage. And if you're going to compare Forcecage to a Wall of Force, then just based on the text alone (or lack thereof), The Disintegrate spell doesn't work on Forcecage, since it's clearly stated in the Wall of Force description, "Nothing can physically pass through the wall. It is immune to all damage and can't be dispelled by dispel magic. A disintegrate spell destroys the wall instantly, however. The wall also extends into the Ethereal Plane, blocking ethereal travel through the wall." The text in Forcecage says nothing of Disintegrate, just Dispel Magic and extending into the Ethereal Plane. You need to read both spells top to bottom, stop with the selective reading, and understand how grammar and putting paragraphs together actually work
A target cannot leave by any non-magical means. They can use teleportation or any form of interplanar travel (like Plane Shift, Demiplane or Gate) to leave but must make a Charisma saving throw - succeeding means they escape, failure means they don't.
Disintegrate
The forcecage, be it Box or Cage, is not immune to being targeted by Disintegrate although creatures inside the cage would be. If you targeted the trapped creature or any object inside the prison, Disintegrate will have no effect. This is because spells cannot pass into or out from the prison.
However, the prison itself can be targeted by Disintegrate and affected by. This is because the spell is not "passiing into" it or "out from it". Unlike Wall of Force which has a note to say it is protected from disintegrate, Forcecage does not.
Magical force is effectively immune to damage. However, the Disintegrate spell has the specific ability to instantly destroy creations made of magical force, which Forcecage is.
Forcecage is therefore vulnerable to Disintegrate. This vulnerability is the design intent. It's to compensate for the lack of concentration requirement (which lets you combo the spell with AoEs to "lock" the target into the effect), immunity to dispel, and being able to block teleportation.
If you're inside the box, how can it not be considered cast inside into the area? That makes no sense, since the only place any magical energy being cast is into the area you're trapped in.
"into" seems like a strange choice of words for the context of being inside the area and casting a spell with a target inside the area. For me, a better word for this context would have been "within." Into would indicate the source of the spell is outside the area and the target is inside. And I'm not just being pedantic. The difference is that in the first case, the spell would not need to cross the barrier of the cage whereas in the second example it does. I believe the crossing of the barrier is that the wording of the spell is attempting to address.
Disintegrate specifically says it can target "a creation of magical force," while Forcecage specifically can't be targeted due to its inherent invisibility and blocking of spells.
Disintegrate specifically says it can target "a creation of magical force," while Forcecage specifically can't be targeted due to its inherent invisibility and blocking of spells.
I think you have misunderstood the spell quite a bit.
blocking any spells cast into or out from the area.
This means you can't cast spells through the sides of the box. So you can't target something inside if you are on the outside or the opposite. But if you are inside you can target something that is inside and the box itself can be targeted both from the inside and the outside.
And even if the box is invisible it is very clearly, and tangibly, there. So if you identify where it is, on specific point in space should be enough, the it can be targeted.
i did mis read the item, after thinking about it. i didnt think about effecting the cage i thought he was asking about targeting something inside it my bad
1) A creature is trapped within the cage. Its size then increases to beyond the cage's dimensions. Does it get crushed in a meat grinder fashion, pushing through the gaps in the cage like sausage meat?
...or does the wording of the spell kick in:
"...those too large to fit inside the area, are pushed away from the center of the area until they are completely outside the area."
2) Forcecage works to a 20x20 cube. An adult dragon is huge (15x15) at its base but the creature has an incredible wingspan. Would you rule by grid/base size, or the visual?
The "pushed away from center" bit only applies when casting. It is irrelevant if the creature is changing size after it is cast.
As for what happens to the creature - depends. Some size changing spells stipulate the creature only grows to accommodate the space it is in or fails if not enough room. If there is no stipulation then the scenario is not covered by rules and the only correct answer is "check with your DM". If you are the DM, you decide.
For example if the size difference is not too much, they can just be cramped inside, after all a medium human can easily occupy only a small space by just sitting down and hugging their legs to their chest - no big deal at all. But try to cram a human into a space only large enough for a tiny mouse and there's going to be problems.
So, depends on the situation.
As for #2 - grid / base size. Thats why they have it.
Forcecage reads: "A prison in the shape of a box can be up to 10 feet on a side, creating a solid barrier that prevents any matter from passing through it and blocking any spells cast into or out from the area." So does this means there is no way anything can escape it for it's duration? No teleportation, no disintegration, no anti-magic field? I've searched high and low for this answer, and found nothing...... Thank you
If you want sugar coating, go buy a dessert....
Disintegrate works on force effects.
My question is... can you use gaseous form to get out of the cage variant of this spell? Technically it’s magic... but it’s not teleport... so is it that simple?
it prevents any matter from passing through. Not just any solid matter.
There is no dawn after eternal night.
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Well, if you read to end, you see that you can teleport out if you make a save:
”If the creature tries to use teleportation or interplanar travel to leave the cage, it must first make a Charisma saving throw. On a success, the creature can use that magic to exit the cage. On a failure, the creature can't exit the cage and wastes the use of the spell or effect. The cage also extends into the Ethereal Plane, blocking ethereal travel.”
So Since the cage is invisible, meaning you can see the outside of it, something as simple as misty step can get you out if you make the save.
The OP's original question was about the Forcecage 10' x 10' box, not the 20' x 20' cage with half inch diameter bars
If you want sugar coating, go buy a dessert....
But the spell clearly states "blocking ANY spells cast into or out from the area." So if you're inside the box, how can Disintegrate work if ANY spell cast into or out of is blocked? This is where I'm trying to get an official ruling, and I find it hard to believe this topic has never come up in the past with such a powerful spell.
If you want sugar coating, go buy a dessert....
It's not going into or out from the area. It's cast ON the area.
If you're inside the box, how can it not be considered cast inside into the area? That makes no sense, since the only place any magical energy being cast is into the area you're trapped in.
If you want sugar coating, go buy a dessert....
Same rule applies. If You can see your destination, you can teleport to it with misty step. Just like you can misty step past a wall of force.
The wording of forcecage means you can’t cast a spell through the barrier so people on one side can’t cast at people on the other side. You can still cast freely on the inside, you just can’t target anyone on the outside.
Teleport spells, however, don’t target the other side of the cage, they target self, so you are not casting it through the barrier. And the essence of teleportation is moving from one spot to another without occupying anyplace in between.
Also in the description of disintegrate, it specifically says you can use it on something constructed of magical force, like wall of force. Forcecage is just a few walls of force stuck together.
No....Just no. There is a clear difference between the 10' x 10' box and the 20' x 20' cage. There is even a small paragraph which I highlighted in the OP that clearly distinguishes itself differently than the 20' x 20' cage. And if you're going to compare Forcecage to a Wall of Force, then just based on the text alone (or lack thereof), The Disintegrate spell doesn't work on Forcecage, since it's clearly stated in the Wall of Force description, "Nothing can physically pass through the wall. It is immune to all damage and can't be dispelled by dispel magic. A disintegrate spell destroys the wall instantly, however. The wall also extends into the Ethereal Plane, blocking ethereal travel through the wall." The text in Forcecage says nothing of Disintegrate, just Dispel Magic and extending into the Ethereal Plane. You need to read both spells top to bottom, stop with the selective reading, and understand how grammar and putting paragraphs together actually work
If you want sugar coating, go buy a dessert....
Leaving
A target cannot leave by any non-magical means. They can use teleportation or any form of interplanar travel (like Plane Shift, Demiplane or Gate) to leave but must make a Charisma saving throw - succeeding means they escape, failure means they don't.
Disintegrate
The forcecage, be it Box or Cage, is not immune to being targeted by Disintegrate although creatures inside the cage would be. If you targeted the trapped creature or any object inside the prison, Disintegrate will have no effect. This is because spells cannot pass into or out from the prison.
However, the prison itself can be targeted by Disintegrate and affected by. This is because the spell is not "passiing into" it or "out from it". Unlike Wall of Force which has a note to say it is protected from disintegrate, Forcecage does not.
Magical force is effectively immune to damage. However, the Disintegrate spell has the specific ability to instantly destroy creations made of magical force, which Forcecage is.
Forcecage is therefore vulnerable to Disintegrate. This vulnerability is the design intent. It's to compensate for the lack of concentration requirement (which lets you combo the spell with AoEs to "lock" the target into the effect), immunity to dispel, and being able to block teleportation.
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"into" seems like a strange choice of words for the context of being inside the area and casting a spell with a target inside the area. For me, a better word for this context would have been "within." Into would indicate the source of the spell is outside the area and the target is inside. And I'm not just being pedantic. The difference is that in the first case, the spell would not need to cross the barrier of the cage whereas in the second example it does. I believe the crossing of the barrier is that the wording of the spell is attempting to address.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Disintegrate specifically says it can target "a creation of magical force," while Forcecage specifically can't be targeted due to its inherent invisibility and blocking of spells.
I think you have misunderstood the spell quite a bit.
This means you can't cast spells through the sides of the box. So you can't target something inside if you are on the outside or the opposite. But if you are inside you can target something that is inside and the box itself can be targeted both from the inside and the outside.
And even if the box is invisible it is very clearly, and tangibly, there. So if you identify where it is, on specific point in space should be enough, the it can be targeted.
i did mis read the item, after thinking about it. i didnt think about effecting the cage i thought he was asking about targeting something inside it my bad
Two questions on this:
1) A creature is trapped within the cage. Its size then increases to beyond the cage's dimensions. Does it get crushed in a meat grinder fashion, pushing through the gaps in the cage like sausage meat?
...or does the wording of the spell kick in:
"...those too large to fit inside the area, are pushed away from the center of the area until they are completely outside the area."
2) Forcecage works to a 20x20 cube. An adult dragon is huge (15x15) at its base but the creature has an incredible wingspan. Would you rule by grid/base size, or the visual?
The "pushed away from center" bit only applies when casting. It is irrelevant if the creature is changing size after it is cast.
As for what happens to the creature - depends. Some size changing spells stipulate the creature only grows to accommodate the space it is in or fails if not enough room. If there is no stipulation then the scenario is not covered by rules and the only correct answer is "check with your DM". If you are the DM, you decide.
For example if the size difference is not too much, they can just be cramped inside, after all a medium human can easily occupy only a small space by just sitting down and hugging their legs to their chest - no big deal at all. But try to cram a human into a space only large enough for a tiny mouse and there's going to be problems.
So, depends on the situation.
As for #2 - grid / base size. Thats why they have it.
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Need help with Homebrew? Check out this FAQ/Guide thread by IamSposta
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