I know that the clerics gimic is that they use power granted by deitys to heal Ally's and harm enemy's,but does a cleric HAVE to worship a god? Could I,for example,have a cleric who worships Strad,or the ocean? From what I understand,clerics get their power from their devotion,so I would rule that they don't need to worship a god,but I want to know if there is a official stance on the matter.
(Yeah,I know the warlock exists,but deitys like the raven queen can make both warlocks and clerics,so if a god can make both,my thought is,could a powerful mage/undead make a cleric? Also,I know what a famous DM has allowed for a certain cleric,but I want to know if that was RAW,RAI,or homebrew/DM handwave.
edit:i ask mainly because l have a character idea of a cleric who worships some kind of undead (strad was my first idea,but maybe vecna) but wanted to know if i would have to settle for the raven queen (the cleric is a goth,and would be grave or death domain,though it would likely have to be death if i chose a undead -_0_-) if i didnt want to rely on the dm haveing to allow it.
My personal opinion is, that the entitiy worshipped has to have the power to grant devine magic.
Therefore, my take on clerics is, that they need to follow a god or demi-god. I might be OK with an archfey or a powerful being of the shadowfell, or maybe some extremely powerful elemental lord.
Who’s to say that the patron of the Ocean Worshippers isn’t secretly a powerful Elemental Lord?
I am much more literal with somthing like that. Then it is a Elemental lord, not the ocean... and there would be some rules fineprint that says, the followers believe it is only the ocean.
"Although many paladins are devoted to gods of good, a paladin’s power comes as much from a commitment to justice itself as it does from a god." (PHB)
Since Paladins and Clerics are both divine casters with martial capabilities, I guess a cleric devoted to an ideal instead of a god would be fine as well.
Who’s to say that the patron of the Ocean Worshippers isn’t secretly a powerful Elemental Lord?
I am much more literal with somthing like that. Then it is a Elemental lord, not the ocean... and there would be some rules fineprint that says, the followers believe it is only the ocean.
But then you have no chance for a stunning reveal later in the story.
Who’s to say that the patron of the Ocean Worshippers isn’t secretly a powerful Elemental Lord?
Critical Role is exploring the differences and similarities between a deity and a patron this campaign and I have found it fascinating. The difference between a cleric of Bahamut and a warlock of Bahamut is reflected in whether the character has the powers of a cleric or the powers of a warlock.
Who’s to say that the patron of the Ocean Worshippers isn’t secretly a powerful Elemental Lord?
I am much more literal with somthing like that. Then it is a Elemental lord, not the ocean... and there would be some rules fineprint that says, the followers believe it is only the ocean.
But then you have no chance for a stunning reveal later in the story.
I as a DM do not need to give players all the rules, do I? ;) :)
No, seriously, I take this as a general question which is rooted in the basic function of things within world building. Players do not need to know everything, but the DM has to know, what the general roots of this are.
Who’s to say that the patron of the Ocean Worshippers isn’t secretly a powerful Elemental Lord?
I am much more literal with somthing like that. Then it is a Elemental lord, not the ocean... and there would be some rules fineprint that says, the followers believe it is only the ocean.
But then you have no chance for a stunning reveal later in the story.
I as a DM do not need to give players all the rules, do I? ;) :)
No, seriously, I take this as a general question which is rooted in the basic function of things within world building. Players do not need to know everything, but the DM has to know, what the general roots of this are.
Sometimes I don’t worry about that stuff and figure it out as I go. I have found that often leads to me coming up with something more interesting than my original idea.
Who’s to say that the patron of the Ocean Worshippers isn’t secretly a powerful Elemental Lord?
I am much more literal with somthing like that. Then it is a Elemental lord, not the ocean... and there would be some rules fineprint that says, the followers believe it is only the ocean.
But then you have no chance for a stunning reveal later in the story.
I as a DM do not need to give players all the rules, do I? ;) :)
No, seriously, I take this as a general question which is rooted in the basic function of things within world building. Players do not need to know everything, but the DM has to know, what the general roots of this are.
Sometimes I don’t worry about that stuff and figure it out as I go. I have found that often leads to me coming up with something more interesting than my original idea.
Fair enough. I take always some basic assumptions, without making up my mind in advance, what I will do with it. So my assumption with clerics, no matter what the player wants his character to warship, is, that there is some powerful being behind it.
In my book, that is possible, but then, the worship needs to create a spark of divinity first, before the cleric would get any powers from it. So, in this moment, the power granting ocean is already a divine being and not just an ocean anymore.
I guess that is a bit of the discussion what was first, the egg or the hen... :)
In my book, that is possible, but then, the worship needs to create a spark of divinity first, before the cleric would get any powers from it. So, in this moment, the power granting ocean is already a divine being and not just an ocean anymore.
I guess that is a bit of the discussion what was first, the egg or the hen... :)
No, a cleric doesn’t need to worship a god. Eberron has a couple religions that don’t have any kind of divine entity at all, and the gods of that setting (probably) don’t even actually exist.
D&D as a game assumes some source of magical power that various spellcasting classes interact with in order to get spells, but that source doesn’t need to be a good. Clerics are driven by their faith; that faith gives them the connection to the source of magic that they need. Sometimes the source will be a divinity, and sometimes that faith will be in a divinity, but neither is mechanically necessary. The narrative point is up to the DM.
As you create a cleric, the most important question to consider is which deity to serve and what principles you want your character to embody. The Gods of the Multiverse section includes lists of many of the gods of the multiverse. Check with your DM to learn which deities are in your campaign.
Once you’ve chosen a deity, consider your cleric’s relationship to that god. Did you enter this service willingly? Or did the god choose you, impelling you into service with no regard for your wishes? How do the temple priests of your faith regard you: as a champion or a troublemaker? What are your ultimate goals? Does your deity have a special task in mind for you? Or are you striving to prove yourself worthy of a great quest?
Clerics absolutely require a deity; they literally are not Clerics without this.
That said, there's near-infinite room for choosing which deity to follow, and there's nothing stopping you from making one up (with DM approval, as always). Your Cleric could be the one-and-only Cleric of a deity that has just ascended to Godhood, or you can be a Cleric of a deity that you're not even aware actually exists.
Like you mentioned in Eberron, some religions have no known deity, but that doesn't mean a deity isn't involved. You could have a deity that desires a world in which their tenets are spread of the peoples' own volition, and the deity chooses to grant power to exceptional individuals that live & teach those tenets.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
My fun is not wrong. If my character wants to worship a mountain range or a river as a god then why not? D&D stands for Dungeons&Dragons, not “Dos&Don’ts.”
My fun is not wrong. If my character wants to worship a mountain range or a river as a god then why not? D&D stands for Dungeons&Dragons, not “Dos&Don’ts.”
And there's nothing wrong with that! Congratulations, you just brought a deity into existence through your devotion! :3
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
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I know that the clerics gimic is that they use power granted by deitys to heal Ally's and harm enemy's,but does a cleric HAVE to worship a god? Could I,for example,have a cleric who worships Strad,or the ocean? From what I understand,clerics get their power from their devotion,so I would rule that they don't need to worship a god,but I want to know if there is a official stance on the matter.
(Yeah,I know the warlock exists,but deitys like the raven queen can make both warlocks and clerics,so if a god can make both,my thought is,could a powerful mage/undead make a cleric? Also,I know what a famous DM has allowed for a certain cleric,but I want to know if that was RAW,RAI,or homebrew/DM handwave.
edit:i ask mainly because l have a character idea of a cleric who worships some kind of undead (strad was my first idea,but maybe vecna) but wanted to know if i would have to settle for the raven queen (the cleric is a goth,and would be grave or death domain,though it would likely have to be death if i chose a undead -_0_-) if i didnt want to rely on the dm haveing to allow it.
Why not? People IRL have worshipped Oceans, Mountains, Trees, etc. as divine beings.
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My personal opinion is, that the entitiy worshipped has to have the power to grant devine magic.
Therefore, my take on clerics is, that they need to follow a god or demi-god. I might be OK with an archfey or a powerful being of the shadowfell, or maybe some extremely powerful elemental lord.
Who’s to say that the patron of the Ocean Worshippers isn’t secretly a powerful Elemental Lord?
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I am much more literal with somthing like that. Then it is a Elemental lord, not the ocean... and there would be some rules fineprint that says, the followers believe it is only the ocean.
Paladins don't necessarily need a god:
"Although many paladins are devoted to gods of good, a paladin’s power comes as much from a commitment to justice itself as it does from a god." (PHB)
Since Paladins and Clerics are both divine casters with martial capabilities, I guess a cleric devoted to an ideal instead of a god would be fine as well.
But then you have no chance for a stunning reveal later in the story.
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Critical Role is exploring the differences and similarities between a deity and a patron this campaign and I have found it fascinating. The difference between a cleric of Bahamut and a warlock of Bahamut is reflected in whether the character has the powers of a cleric or the powers of a warlock.
Beyond that, it's just story stuff.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I as a DM do not need to give players all the rules, do I? ;) :)
No, seriously, I take this as a general question which is rooted in the basic function of things within world building. Players do not need to know everything, but the DM has to know, what the general roots of this are.
Sometimes I don’t worry about that stuff and figure it out as I go. I have found that often leads to me coming up with something more interesting than my original idea.
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Fair enough. I take always some basic assumptions, without making up my mind in advance, what I will do with it. So my assumption with clerics, no matter what the player wants his character to warship, is, that there is some powerful being behind it.
But what if their worship is what creates the divine being. What if the act of worshiping the ocean turns the ocean into a divinity?
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I don't know a LOT about Theros, but I think that's how the gods become gods in that campaign setting.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
In my book, that is possible, but then, the worship needs to create a spark of divinity first, before the cleric would get any powers from it. So, in this moment, the power granting ocean is already a divine being and not just an ocean anymore.
I guess that is a bit of the discussion what was first, the egg or the hen... :)
I’d rather it be a mystery. 😉
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No, a cleric doesn’t need to worship a god. Eberron has a couple religions that don’t have any kind of divine entity at all, and the gods of that setting (probably) don’t even actually exist.
D&D as a game assumes some source of magical power that various spellcasting classes interact with in order to get spells, but that source doesn’t need to be a good. Clerics are driven by their faith; that faith gives them the connection to the source of magic that they need. Sometimes the source will be a divinity, and sometimes that faith will be in a divinity, but neither is mechanically necessary. The narrative point is up to the DM.
That's categorically false. Paladins in 5e do not need to follow a deity, but Clerics absolutely do.
Clerics absolutely require a deity; they literally are not Clerics without this.
That said, there's near-infinite room for choosing which deity to follow, and there's nothing stopping you from making one up (with DM approval, as always). Your Cleric could be the one-and-only Cleric of a deity that has just ascended to Godhood, or you can be a Cleric of a deity that you're not even aware actually exists.
Like you mentioned in Eberron, some religions have no known deity, but that doesn't mean a deity isn't involved. You could have a deity that desires a world in which their tenets are spread of the peoples' own volition, and the deity chooses to grant power to exceptional individuals that live & teach those tenets.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
My fun is not wrong. If my character wants to worship a mountain range or a river as a god then why not? D&D stands for Dungeons&Dragons, not “Dos&Don’ts.”
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Well, DDB just did a video on this exact subject:
Godless Cleric
And there's nothing wrong with that! Congratulations, you just brought a deity into existence through your devotion! :3
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.