One of my DMs says that a monster with blindsight is immune to being blinded. I think it isn't, because it doesn't say it is. My fellow players got into a discussion about it, with no significant result.
This particular game is supposed to stick to the rules as much as possible, which is why I'm looking for an official ruling instead of going along with what the DM says.
Blindsight isn't immunity to being blinded, but it makes the blindness have little effect. Blindness means you can't see; blindsight means you don't have to (within a particular radius). Blindsight radius is shorter than full vision. There are a number of monsters in the game with Blindsight and no vision; this includes things like the Giant Bat whose Echolocation specifies that its blindsight relies on hearing (nothing to do with vision) and/or smell like the Grimlock. I see no reason why any monster couldn't be blinded but it wouldn't necessarily affect its Blindsight per se.
Edit: And actually, now I'm reading Grimlock and it specifies it is immune to blinded. Thus it follows that a creature is not immune to blinded unless it says so. This doesn't change that blindness wouldn't affect blindsight.
Blindsight isn't immunity to being blinded, but it makes the blindness have little effect. Blindness means you can't see; blindsight means you don't have to (within a particular radius). Blindsight radius is shorter than full vision. There are a number of monsters in the game with Blindsight and no vision; this includes things like the Giant Bat whose Echolocation specifies that its blindsight relies on hearing (nothing to do with vision) and/or smell like the Grimlock. I see no reason why any monster couldn't be blinded but it wouldn't necessarily affect its Blindsight per se.
Edit: And actually, now I'm reading Grimlock and it specifies it is immune to blinded. Thus it follows that a creature is not immune to blinded unless it says so. This doesn't change that blindness wouldn't affect blindsight.
This. Every monster in the MM that has blindsight but no sight is immune to the blinded condition, but blinding them would be completely pointless anyways. There are many monsters with both sight and blindsight that aren't immune to the condition.
The more interesting question is whether perceiving a creature through blindsight is good enough for casting spells that require seeing your target. That could come up if you blind a dragon that's using the Variant: Dragons as Innate Spellcasters rules. I'm inclined to take "a creature that you can see" literally, though I'm curious what Jeremy would say.
Blindsight isn't immunity to being blinded, but it makes the blindness have little effect. Blindness means you can't see; blindsight means you don't have to (within a particular radius). Blindsight radius is shorter than full vision. There are a number of monsters in the game with Blindsight and no vision; this includes things like the Giant Bat whose Echolocation specifies that its blindsight relies on hearing (nothing to do with vision) and/or smell like the Grimlock. I see no reason why any monster couldn't be blinded but it wouldn't necessarily affect its Blindsight per se.
Edit: And actually, now I'm reading Grimlock and it specifies it is immune to blinded. Thus it follows that a creature is not immune to blinded unless it says so. This doesn't change that blindness wouldn't affect blindsight.
So, at the end, it could be that a monster without immunity to being blinded and with blindsight could be, if affected, considered blinded outside its blindsight radius?
Yup. Much like a creature with Darkvision (60ft) is effectively blind beyond that radius in a completely dark area, Blindsight's radius is the limiting factor here.
Note that the definition of Blindsight even mentions the existence of creatures that are blind beyond its area.
Not every monster with blindsight is immune to being blinded. If you examine the stat block for Killer Whale, for example, it can be blinded even though it has blindsight.
It seems to me that a creature with blindsight that gets blinded would suffer the first bullet point of the blinded condition (automatically fail any ability check that requires sight), but not the second (attack advantage/disadvantage).
It seems to me that a creature with blindsight that gets blinded would suffer the first bullet point of the blinded condition (automatically fail any ability check that requires sight), but not the second (attack advantage/disadvantage).
Pretty much the main point I wanted to make too. One example id like to make is some creatures have regular sight and blind sight and blinding that creature can give huge benefits even if its blind sight is still active. For example, say you have a creature with a blind sight range of 60ft and regular vision. The wizard from a distance casts colour spray blinding the creature. The party's rogue sits waiting for this 70ft away outside of the creatures blind sight range, effectively giving the rogue advantage and triggering it's sneak attack feature, without anyone having to be within 5ft of the creature.
So apologies on this super Necro thread but was wondering if there were any updates to this.
Is it like the invisible condition where by RAW even if you can see the invisible creature they still have advantage on attacks?
And more specifically the Light Cleric's Warding Flare. Does it has any affect on a creature that has blindsight? Can you cause a creature with blindsight to actually be at disadvantage from blindness?
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One of my DMs says that a monster with blindsight is immune to being blinded. I think it isn't, because it doesn't say it is. My fellow players got into a discussion about it, with no significant result.
This particular game is supposed to stick to the rules as much as possible, which is why I'm looking for an official ruling instead of going along with what the DM says.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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Blindsight isn't immunity to being blinded, but it makes the blindness have little effect. Blindness means you can't see; blindsight means you don't have to (within a particular radius). Blindsight radius is shorter than full vision. There are a number of monsters in the game with Blindsight and no vision; this includes things like the Giant Bat whose Echolocation specifies that its blindsight relies on hearing (nothing to do with vision) and/or smell like the Grimlock. I see no reason why any monster couldn't be blinded but it wouldn't necessarily affect its Blindsight per se.
Edit: And actually, now I'm reading Grimlock and it specifies it is immune to blinded. Thus it follows that a creature is not immune to blinded unless it says so. This doesn't change that blindness wouldn't affect blindsight.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
Yup. Much like a creature with Darkvision (60ft) is effectively blind beyond that radius in a completely dark area, Blindsight's radius is the limiting factor here.
Note that the definition of Blindsight even mentions the existence of creatures that are blind beyond its area.
Not every monster with blindsight is immune to being blinded. If you examine the stat block for Killer Whale, for example, it can be blinded even though it has blindsight.
It seems to me that a creature with blindsight that gets blinded would suffer the first bullet point of the blinded condition (automatically fail any ability check that requires sight), but not the second (attack advantage/disadvantage).
One example id like to make is some creatures have regular sight and blind sight and blinding that creature can give huge benefits even if its blind sight is still active. For example, say you have a creature with a blind sight range of 60ft and regular vision. The wizard from a distance casts colour spray blinding the creature. The party's rogue sits waiting for this 70ft away outside of the creatures blind sight range, effectively giving the rogue advantage and triggering it's sneak attack feature, without anyone having to be within 5ft of the creature.
So apologies on this super Necro thread but was wondering if there were any updates to this.
Is it like the invisible condition where by RAW even if you can see the invisible creature they still have advantage on attacks?
And more specifically the Light Cleric's Warding Flare. Does it has any affect on a creature that has blindsight? Can you cause a creature with blindsight to actually be at disadvantage from blindness?