Can someone explain to me how the damage works with both of these cantrips? Does weapon damage get factored in at all?
At level 5 for example; Is it weapon damage+cantrip damage(x2 - lvl5)?
Does spell modifier get added to the damage for GFB?
I'm confused with how the ability reads in my character sheeet in dndbeyond. At level 6, BB reads as 1d8 dmg as does GFB. But shouldn't that have increased to 2d8dmg now (past level 5)?
Green-flame blade and booming blade. The target suffers the normal effects of getting hit with whatever weapon you try to hit them with. Each only starts dealing extra damage to the first target at 5th level.
Green-flame blade and booming blade. The target suffers the normal effects of getting hit with whatever weapon you try to hit them with. Each only starts dealing extra damage to the first target at 5th level.
Green-flame blade and booming blade. The target suffers the normal effects of getting hit with whatever weapon you try to hit them with. Each only starts dealing extra damage to the first target at 5th level.
Green Flame Blade: Weapon Damage (Rapier) 1d8+Dex Mod+(1d8 Fire)+(1d8 Fire 2nd target)
Almost. Green-flame blade adds your spellcasting ability modifier to the second-target damage (so most likely 1d8+4 at 5th level) and booming blade does an extra 1d8 (scaling normally; 2d8 to 5th level) if the target moves within one round.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
At 1st level Booming blade deals 1d8 extra damage if the target moves, and at 5th level deals an immediate 1d8 thunder damage to the attack roll and an additional 2d8 damage if the target moves.
My question is when I would I ever NOT use booming blade if it always does extra dmg on top of my normal weapon dmg?
It takes an action to cast the spell. This means that you cannot also take the Attack action and benefit from the Extra Attack feature that some classes possess. So no, it is a tradeoff.
Booming Blade's regular bonus damage applies only if the target moves willingly. Otherwise, it does normal attack damage. You would only be able to use it in situations where you are using the "cast a spell" action, so is not applicable for opportunity attacks, nor could you use it with the Extra Attack feature. It's "X level" bonus damage compensates for the fact that you can't use it with Extra Attack. So yes, where you can cast the spell all the time, sure, go nuts on Booming Blade.
My question is when I would I ever NOT use booming blade if it always does extra dmg on top of my normal weapon dmg?
This is the logic the rogue in our party takes since he only gets one attack per round. If he is within melee range, he's going to cast Booming Blade every time in the hopes of doing additional damage. And since he can generally finagle himself into a situation where he attacks with advantage, why shouldn't he? At 6th level, he casts, takes his melee attack (usually with advantage) and then rolls his weapon damage + his 3d6 sneak attack damage + his 1d8 booming blade damage and then if the creature moves, it picks up another 2d8 damage from that as well. It's a fairly safe, if predictable bet for doing damage.
My question is when I would I ever NOT use booming blade if it always does extra dmg on top of my normal weapon dmg?
This is the logic the rogue in our party takes since he only gets one attack per round. If he is within melee range, he's going to cast Booming Blade every time in the hopes of doing additional damage. And since he can generally finagle himself into a situation where he attacks with advantage, why shouldn't he? At 6th level, he casts, takes his melee attack (usually with advantage) and then rolls his weapon damage + his 3d6 sneak attack damage + his 1d8 booming blade damage and then if the creature moves, it picks up another 2d8 damage from that as well. It's a fairly safe, if predictable bet for doing damage.
EDIT: Thanks Moscato
There's an argument to be made for Rogues using the Attack action rather than Booming Blade: Attack action allows two-weapon fighting, which gives the Rogue an extra chance (or two, if there's Advantage) to get a critical hit, which would mean double Sneak Attack dice, which is likely more damage than Booming Blade adds. It's still not a trivial decision, though. Against targets with very high AC, you're definitely going to want to go for two-weapon fighting, since a higher percentage of your hits are going to be critical hits, so raising your hit chance (by rolling more dice) is the way to go. Against a target with a very low AC, though, you're probably going to want to go with Booming Blade, since most of your hits will be regular hits, and the cumulative damage of all those Booming Blades will be more than the small amount of extra critical hits from rolling two attacks. Additionally, using two-weapon fighting consumes your bonus action, for which Rogues have several uses. So yeah, it's not a trivial decision, but certainly in some cases it's better to use two-weapon fighting than attacking with Booming Blade, although the latter is never a "bad" idea.
You also run the risk of being completely negated by counterspell. Using a 3rd level spell against a cantrip may seem like a waste, but when the spellcaster is looking at 20+ damage on average from the rogue when it has less than 20 hit points, it's certainly a thing to consider.
@Bradleydoc, no you are not. 2 Weapon Fighting requires you to make an attack action to gain it's benefits. Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade requires you to take the Cast a Spell action. So you do not fulfill the prerequisites to use 2 Weapon Fighting.
I have a Eldritch Knight/Paladin build. I was wondering if Booming Blade would allow the second attack. Thanks for clarifying that. War Magic is starting to look better than I thought.
@zgrat, yes War Magic states that when you use your action to cast a cantrip, you can make one weapon attack as a bonus action. As such, since both Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade are cantrips, if you posses the War Magic class feature, you are allowed to make one weapon attack as a bonus action after casting one of those cantrips.
So if the bonus attack is a melee attack I should be able to use a divine smite. Let's say I wanted to do a lot of upfront damage to a single target, I cast Booming Blade, attack via War Magic, use a divine smite, use Action Surge to cast Booming Blade again, attack via war magic then use another divine smite. My only other question would be which of the two is more effective, Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade?
Does a rogue get sneak attack damage with GFB/BB? I would assume so, since it's still an attack, even though you're technically not using the attack action.
So if the bonus attack is a melee attack I should be able to use a divine smite. Let's say I wanted to do a lot of upfront damage to a single target, I cast Booming Blade, attack via War Magic, use a divine smite, use Action Surge to cast Booming Blade again, attack via war magic then use another divine smite. My only other question would be which of the two is more effective, Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade?
That almost works, except you don't get a second bonus melee attack (and hence smite) from War Magic for your Action Surge cantrip cast. Action Surge gives you an additional Action, but no additional Bonus Actions nor Reactions. Booming Blade is generally considered better for single target (since you can get extra damage is the target moves), while Green-Flame Blade is better for multi-target, if there's a second target within 5' of the first one. If the target will not move, and there is no target within 5' of it, it makes no difference.
Does a rogue get sneak attack damage with GFB/BB? I would assume so, since it's still an attack, even though you're technically not using the attack action.
Yup, they do! Sneak Attack is restricted only to "once per Turn", and does not require the Attack action. This also means you can get a second Sneak Attack per round (not Turn) if someone generates an Opportunity Attack off you. You'd need the War Caster feat to be able to use Booming Blade for the Opportunity Attack (can't use Green-Flame Blade, since that can target a second target, and War Caster requires the spell to only target the creature that generated the Opportunity Attack).
Can someone explain to me how the damage works with both of these cantrips? Does weapon damage get factored in at all?
At level 5 for example; Is it weapon damage+cantrip damage(x2 - lvl5)?
Does spell modifier get added to the damage for GFB?
I'm confused with how the ability reads in my character sheeet in dndbeyond. At level 6, BB reads as 1d8 dmg as does GFB. But shouldn't that have increased to 2d8dmg now (past level 5)?
Green-flame blade and booming blade. The target suffers the normal effects of getting hit with whatever weapon you try to hit them with. Each only starts dealing extra damage to the first target at 5th level.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Tooltips (Help/aid)
Weapon Damage (Rapier) 1d8+Dex Mod+(1d8 Thunder)
Weapon Damage (Rapier) 1d8+Dex Mod+(1d8 Fire)+(1d8 Fire 2nd target)
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Tooltips (Help/aid)
At 1st level Booming blade deals 1d8 extra damage if the target moves, and at 5th level deals an immediate 1d8 thunder damage to the attack roll and an additional 2d8 damage if the target moves.
Is this overpowered?
My question is when I would I ever NOT use booming blade if it always does extra dmg on top of my normal weapon dmg?
It takes an action to cast the spell. This means that you cannot also take the Attack action and benefit from the Extra Attack feature that some classes possess. So no, it is a tradeoff.
Booming Blade's regular bonus damage applies only if the target moves willingly. Otherwise, it does normal attack damage. You would only be able to use it in situations where you are using the "cast a spell" action, so is not applicable for opportunity attacks, nor could you use it with the Extra Attack feature. It's "X level" bonus damage compensates for the fact that you can't use it with Extra Attack. So yes, where you can cast the spell all the time, sure, go nuts on Booming Blade.
This is the logic the rogue in our party takes since he only gets one attack per round. If he is within melee range, he's going to cast Booming Blade every time in the hopes of doing additional damage. And since he can generally finagle himself into a situation where he attacks with advantage, why shouldn't he? At 6th level, he casts, takes his melee attack (usually with advantage) and then rolls his weapon damage + his 3d6 sneak attack damage + his 1d8 booming blade damage and then if the creature moves, it picks up another 2d8 damage from that as well. It's a fairly safe, if predictable bet for doing damage.
EDIT: Thanks Moscato
"Not all those who wander are lost"
He should only do 1d8 booming blade damage on the initial hit, not 2d8
There's an argument to be made for Rogues using the Attack action rather than Booming Blade: Attack action allows two-weapon fighting, which gives the Rogue an extra chance (or two, if there's Advantage) to get a critical hit, which would mean double Sneak Attack dice, which is likely more damage than Booming Blade adds. It's still not a trivial decision, though. Against targets with very high AC, you're definitely going to want to go for two-weapon fighting, since a higher percentage of your hits are going to be critical hits, so raising your hit chance (by rolling more dice) is the way to go. Against a target with a very low AC, though, you're probably going to want to go with Booming Blade, since most of your hits will be regular hits, and the cumulative damage of all those Booming Blades will be more than the small amount of extra critical hits from rolling two attacks. Additionally, using two-weapon fighting consumes your bonus action, for which Rogues have several uses. So yeah, it's not a trivial decision, but certainly in some cases it's better to use two-weapon fighting than attacking with Booming Blade, although the latter is never a "bad" idea.
You also run the risk of being completely negated by counterspell. Using a 3rd level spell against a cantrip may seem like a waste, but when the spellcaster is looking at 20+ damage on average from the rogue when it has less than 20 hit points, it's certainly a thing to consider.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
But the spell has 1 attack as part of it by definition and you are still free to use a bonus action, like 2 weapon fighting.
@Bradleydoc, no you are not. 2 Weapon Fighting requires you to make an attack action to gain it's benefits. Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade requires you to take the Cast a Spell action. So you do not fulfill the prerequisites to use 2 Weapon Fighting.
I have a Eldritch Knight/Paladin build. I was wondering if Booming Blade would allow the second attack. Thanks for clarifying that. War Magic is starting to look better than I thought.
@zgrat, yes War Magic states that when you use your action to cast a cantrip, you can make one weapon attack as a bonus action. As such, since both Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade are cantrips, if you posses the War Magic class feature, you are allowed to make one weapon attack as a bonus action after casting one of those cantrips.
So if the bonus attack is a melee attack I should be able to use a divine smite. Let's say I wanted to do a lot of upfront damage to a single target, I cast Booming Blade, attack via War Magic, use a divine smite, use Action Surge to cast Booming Blade again, attack via war magic then use another divine smite. My only other question would be which of the two is more effective, Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade?
Does a rogue get sneak attack damage with GFB/BB? I would assume so, since it's still an attack, even though you're technically not using the attack action.
That almost works, except you don't get a second bonus melee attack (and hence smite) from War Magic for your Action Surge cantrip cast. Action Surge gives you an additional Action, but no additional Bonus Actions nor Reactions. Booming Blade is generally considered better for single target (since you can get extra damage is the target moves), while Green-Flame Blade is better for multi-target, if there's a second target within 5' of the first one. If the target will not move, and there is no target within 5' of it, it makes no difference.
Yup, they do! Sneak Attack is restricted only to "once per Turn", and does not require the Attack action. This also means you can get a second Sneak Attack per round (not Turn) if someone generates an Opportunity Attack off you. You'd need the War Caster feat to be able to use Booming Blade for the Opportunity Attack (can't use Green-Flame Blade, since that can target a second target, and War Caster requires the spell to only target the creature that generated the Opportunity Attack).
Besides what Tonio said, you can just smite on your Booming Blade attack. You don't need to be taking the Attack action to use Divine Smite.