In what way do you or can you use Darkness tactically as a player?
Blocking LOS can be helpful to aid in movement. Placing Darkness on a target makes it difficult for that target to fire on the party. How else do you use Darkness
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
Darkness can be used to protect yourself or your friends from opportunity attacks, counterspell and most targeted spells and abilities. Since it can be cast on an object, you can relocate it or temporarily turn it off easily.
But if you cast it on yourself to avoid OAs don't you suffer from not being able to see?
RE: counterspell, you cast darkness, so your next spell is safe from counterspell but you can't see your target? I suppose you fling a fireball in the general direction and hope for a hit?
Trying to enhance my Drow tactics for a coming campaign.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
But if you cast it on yourself to avoid OAs don't you suffer from not being able to see?
You can always put away the object you cast Darkness on after you've left their reach. Alternatively you can drop the object near your enemies.
This is more useful if multiple people need to move away; it only takes one action from the spellcaster but lets multiple people move away safely without using their actions.
RE: counterspell, you cast darkness, so your next spell is safe from counterspell but you can't see your target? I suppose you fling a fireball in the general direction and hope for a hit?
You don't need a whole lot of precision to aim a Fireball. In a lot of cases you don't need to see to cast spells on yourself either. You could also use it to blind enemies while someone else casts spells.
The key thing here is that many mechanics in the game require sight and Darkness lets you temporarily blind people at will.
Darkness can be hidden just like LIght can if it’s cast on an object. You can cast either spell on a pebble and put it in a pouch to hide the effect until you take it out again. This means you can cast Darkness, retreat safely, and then hide it to cast an offensive spell and then pull it out again.
But if you cast it on yourself to avoid OAs don't you suffer from not being able to see?
You can always put away the object you cast Darkness on after you've left their reach. Alternatively you can drop the object near your enemies.
This is more useful if multiple people need to move away; it only takes one action from the spellcaster but lets multiple people move away safely without using their actions.
RE: counterspell, you cast darkness, so your next spell is safe from counterspell but you can't see your target? I suppose you fling a fireball in the general direction and hope for a hit?
You don't need a whole lot of precision to aim a Fireball. In a lot of cases you don't need to see to cast spells on yourself either.
I am totally going to use that! "The bad guy does what!?" "Since you're next to him, he casts Fireball on himself."
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
You have advantage to hit opponents who can’t see you and have disadvantage to hit opponents you can’t see. Advantage and Disadvantage cancel out so you attack normally. If you are already at disadvantage or your opponent has advantage on you, you are better off in the darkness since two advantages are still cancel by one disadvantage and vice versa.
You have advantage to hit opponents who can’t see you and have disadvantage to hit opponents you can’t see. Advantage and Disadvantage cancel out so you attack normally. If you are already at disadvantage or your opponent has advantage on you, you are better off in the darkness since two advantages are still cancel by one disadvantage and vice versa.
I acknowledge this is RAW, but it is extremely problematic to me. You end up with ridiculous situations where archers can fire at long range into obscured areas without disadvantage because of advantage/disadvantage cancellations. My house rule is disadvantage across the board.
You have advantage to hit opponents who can’t see you and have disadvantage to hit opponents you can’t see. Advantage and Disadvantage cancel out so you attack normally. If you are already at disadvantage or your opponent has advantage on you, you are better off in the darkness since two advantages are still cancel by one disadvantage and vice versa.
I acknowledge this is RAW, but it is extremely problematic to me. You end up with ridiculous situations where archers can fire at long range into obscured areas without disadvantage because of advantage/disadvantage cancellations. My house rule is disadvantage across the board.
In that situation, I wouldn't allow the shot. If the player insisted, I'd rule an auto miss.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
With ranged weapons beyond normal range, attacks on unseen targets have a chance to deviate from the intended target area. 50% chance that the attack targets an adjacent square.
i think it should still be harder to hit a hidden foe vs an unseen foe.
I've used it only as a drow to mitigate sunlight sensitivity problems and as a warlock with Devil's Sight to get advantage on attacks. It's also useful to dispel lower-level light spells to blind enemies who don't have darkvision in dark conditions. You can just cast it and hold it until the end of their turns, then dismiss it. Another good use might be to prevent enemy healers from targeting their allies with ranged healing spells or abilities.
That said, I kind of hesitate to use it much because it can frequently cause problems for other party members. So much so that I even ditched it on my warlock with Devil's Sight.
That said, I kind of hesitate to use it much because it can frequently cause problems for other party members. So much so that I even ditched it on my warlock with Devil's Sight.
I never even learned Darkness when I was playing a warlock because of the rest of the party. Being in magical darkness myself would have been great, but the rest of the party would have been blind.
That said, I kind of hesitate to use it much because it can frequently cause problems for other party members. So much so that I even ditched it on my warlock with Devil's Sight.
I never even learned Darkness when I was playing a warlock because of the rest of the party. Being in magical darkness myself would have been great, but the rest of the party would have been blind.
It depends on the number of enemies and size of the battlefield. EB has a range of 120ft, so you don't need to be near your allies if there's room. You can also have your Imp that can also see through magical darkness hold the rock the darkness is cast on and ready an action to follow an enemy whenever they move. That takes one enemy out of the fight until you are ready to deal with them. Also if you stand next to an enemy with darkness, they will likely try to run out of the darkness to attack. If you have Warcaster that lets you get an opportunity attack with Eldritch Blast.
With ranged weapons beyond normal range, attacks on unseen targets have a chance to deviate from the intended target area. 50% chance that the attack targets an adjacent square.
i think it should still be harder to hit a hidden foe vs an unseen foe.
You have advantage to hit opponents who can’t see you and have disadvantage to hit opponents you can’t see. Advantage and Disadvantage cancel out so you attack normally. If you are already at disadvantage or your opponent has advantage on you, you are better off in the darkness since two advantages are still cancel by one disadvantage and vice versa.
I acknowledge this is RAW, but it is extremely problematic to me. You end up with ridiculous situations where archers can fire at long range into obscured areas without disadvantage because of advantage/disadvantage cancellations. My house rule is disadvantage across the board.
In that situation, I wouldn't allow the shot. If the player insisted, I'd rule an auto miss.
Well. Here's the thing. If the archer can remember exactly where the enemy was standing, and if the enemy hasn't moved. The normal attack is fine. make them roll an Intelligence check, to see if they rememeber the exact positioning of every enemy.
ALSO, have all the enemy mobs roll intelligence check, to see if they remember the archer, and therefore would move around.
Additionally, If the archer fails the intelligence check, but still shoots. You could always at your discretion give half cover, 3/4 cover, or full cover, because of their position in relation to other people in the darkness, based on the archer's intelligence check, for some added penalties/chance to shoot their own teammates.
The auto-miss thing, is just stupid and lazy. If I am a proficient archer, and I am standing in front of a target, you could blindfold me and I'll still hit the target. The target hasn't moved, and I remember where it was. But this is a far cry different than things that move and breathe and think. Thus, intelligence check rolls.
Sometimes, they suck at perception to notice things like a longbow. sometimes, archer joins the fight late and they don't notice, etc etc
so, they got to do an intelligence to see if they even are smart enough to move around to prepare for chances of an archer, and sometimes enemies are just so dumb, they can only concentrate on the enemy immediately in front of them too.
This was touched on in some comments, but to summarize: while the unseen advantage and the blinded disadvantage cancel out, you still have to aim at the right spot. Have the players specify WHERE they are attacking, not WHAT they are attacking. And if there was nothing to hit there, just tell them they missed.
And tip for players: area effect spells and saves are unaffected by blindness. And spells like detect thoughts or mindspike (if used before darkness) can locate foes without sight.
I acknowledge this is RAW, but it is extremely problematic to me. You end up with ridiculous situations where archers can fire at long range into obscured areas without disadvantage because of advantage/disadvantage cancellations. My house rule is disadvantage across the board.
It makes sense that a creature that can't see the archer is going to be easier to hit than a creature that sees the archer. Plus as everyone else already pointed out, the archer has little hope of hearing where the enemy is from those distances so they're going to have to guess. Those are some bad odds. If they guess correctly, they should absolutely get the bonus associated with shooting a blind target.
And tip for players: area effect spells and saves are unaffected by blindness. And spells like detect thoughts or mindspike (if used before darkness) can locate foes without sight.
Detect Thoughts will reveal the presence of thinking creatures but it doesn't say you learn their location.
Also keep in mind that being in a heavily obscured area doesn't automatically hide the enemy. Combat is noisy; you can still hear them move around unless the DM rules otherwise (e.g. you're too far away to hear, you're deafened, there's a Silence spell where the enemy is.) If they're hidden, then you might as well save your concentration and 2nd level spell slot and just take the Search action.
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In what way do you or can you use Darkness tactically as a player?
Blocking LOS can be helpful to aid in movement. Placing Darkness on a target makes it difficult for that target to fire on the party. How else do you use Darkness
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
It's also useful for retreating. Cast darkness and disappear through it.
Professional computer geek
Darkness can be used to protect yourself or your friends from opportunity attacks, counterspell and most targeted spells and abilities. Since it can be cast on an object, you can relocate it or temporarily turn it off easily.
But if you cast it on yourself to avoid OAs don't you suffer from not being able to see?
RE: counterspell, you cast darkness, so your next spell is safe from counterspell but you can't see your target? I suppose you fling a fireball in the general direction and hope for a hit?
Trying to enhance my Drow tactics for a coming campaign.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
You can always put away the object you cast Darkness on after you've left their reach. Alternatively you can drop the object near your enemies.
This is more useful if multiple people need to move away; it only takes one action from the spellcaster but lets multiple people move away safely without using their actions.
You don't need a whole lot of precision to aim a Fireball. In a lot of cases you don't need to see to cast spells on yourself either. You could also use it to blind enemies while someone else casts spells.
The key thing here is that many mechanics in the game require sight and Darkness lets you temporarily blind people at will.
Darkness can be hidden just like LIght can if it’s cast on an object. You can cast either spell on a pebble and put it in a pouch to hide the effect until you take it out again. This means you can cast Darkness, retreat safely, and then hide it to cast an offensive spell and then pull it out again.
Professional computer geek
I am totally going to use that! "The bad guy does what!?" "Since you're next to him, he casts Fireball on himself."
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
You have advantage to hit opponents who can’t see you and have disadvantage to hit opponents you can’t see. Advantage and Disadvantage cancel out so you attack normally. If you are already at disadvantage or your opponent has advantage on you, you are better off in the darkness since two advantages are still cancel by one disadvantage and vice versa.
I acknowledge this is RAW, but it is extremely problematic to me. You end up with ridiculous situations where archers can fire at long range into obscured areas without disadvantage because of advantage/disadvantage cancellations. My house rule is disadvantage across the board.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
In that situation, I wouldn't allow the shot. If the player insisted, I'd rule an auto miss.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
I might try a house rule something like this.
With ranged weapons beyond normal range, attacks on unseen targets have a chance to deviate from the intended target area. 50% chance that the attack targets an adjacent square.
i think it should still be harder to hit a hidden foe vs an unseen foe.
I've used it only as a drow to mitigate sunlight sensitivity problems and as a warlock with Devil's Sight to get advantage on attacks. It's also useful to dispel lower-level light spells to blind enemies who don't have darkvision in dark conditions. You can just cast it and hold it until the end of their turns, then dismiss it. Another good use might be to prevent enemy healers from targeting their allies with ranged healing spells or abilities.
That said, I kind of hesitate to use it much because it can frequently cause problems for other party members. So much so that I even ditched it on my warlock with Devil's Sight.
I think a simple fix would be to just amend the blinded condition to say attacks against you have advantage if the attacker can see you.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I never even learned Darkness when I was playing a warlock because of the rest of the party. Being in magical darkness myself would have been great, but the rest of the party would have been blind.
Professional computer geek
It depends on the number of enemies and size of the battlefield. EB has a range of 120ft, so you don't need to be near your allies if there's room. You can also have your Imp that can also see through magical darkness hold the rock the darkness is cast on and ready an action to follow an enemy whenever they move. That takes one enemy out of the fight until you are ready to deal with them. Also if you stand next to an enemy with darkness, they will likely try to run out of the darkness to attack. If you have Warcaster that lets you get an opportunity attack with Eldritch Blast.
Well. Here's the thing. If the archer can remember exactly where the enemy was standing, and if the enemy hasn't moved. The normal attack is fine. make them roll an Intelligence check, to see if they rememeber the exact positioning of every enemy.
ALSO, have all the enemy mobs roll intelligence check, to see if they remember the archer, and therefore would move around.
Additionally, If the archer fails the intelligence check, but still shoots. You could always at your discretion give half cover, 3/4 cover, or full cover, because of their position in relation to other people in the darkness, based on the archer's intelligence check, for some added penalties/chance to shoot their own teammates.
The auto-miss thing, is just stupid and lazy. If I am a proficient archer, and I am standing in front of a target, you could blindfold me and I'll still hit the target. The target hasn't moved, and I remember where it was. But this is a far cry different than things that move and breathe and think. Thus, intelligence check rolls.
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That's quite possibly the funniest thing I've read all day. Thank you =)
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
No problem.
Sometimes, they suck at perception to notice things like a longbow. sometimes, archer joins the fight late and they don't notice, etc etc
so, they got to do an intelligence to see if they even are smart enough to move around to prepare for chances of an archer, and sometimes enemies are just so dumb, they can only concentrate on the enemy immediately in front of them too.
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This was touched on in some comments, but to summarize: while the unseen advantage and the blinded disadvantage cancel out, you still have to aim at the right spot. Have the players specify WHERE they are attacking, not WHAT they are attacking. And if there was nothing to hit there, just tell them they missed.
And tip for players: area effect spells and saves are unaffected by blindness. And spells like detect thoughts or mindspike (if used before darkness) can locate foes without sight.
It makes sense that a creature that can't see the archer is going to be easier to hit than a creature that sees the archer. Plus as everyone else already pointed out, the archer has little hope of hearing where the enemy is from those distances so they're going to have to guess. Those are some bad odds. If they guess correctly, they should absolutely get the bonus associated with shooting a blind target.
Detect Thoughts will reveal the presence of thinking creatures but it doesn't say you learn their location.
Also keep in mind that being in a heavily obscured area doesn't automatically hide the enemy. Combat is noisy; you can still hear them move around unless the DM rules otherwise (e.g. you're too far away to hear, you're deafened, there's a Silence spell where the enemy is.) If they're hidden, then you might as well save your concentration and 2nd level spell slot and just take the Search action.