Consider this: Zelda games are a master class in dungeon design. And you're allowed to find the maps to the dungeons. Just because you see a room, doesn't mean you know what's inside.
Showing the players the entirety of the map can give players information about parts of a map that the DM may want to keep hidden. Secret rooms, secondary antechambers, treasure vaults, the boss's room, etc. are all things that DMs want the players to find by critically thinking about how they go through the dungeon. Revealing the whole map also takes some of thrill of exploration from the players as well, they have no reason to stumble around trying to find their way about. It's also a bit odd to think that the players know the entire layout of a location they've never been to, especially if the location is maze like.
Showing the players the map may induce the desire to explore as you say. It also reduces the clutter on a map if you use a physical one covered by something. It's quick, easy, and just allows the game to progress. The only real issue would be the need for two maps, one for the players and one for the DM since the player map would need the hidden doors and secret locations unmarked.
Personally, I prefer a call back to the olden days of D&D: let the players map it out as they go on. Have them designate a cartographer and that person gets the markers. While they explore the cartographer marks it all down on the map. This allows the players to watch, mark, and visualize their own progress. It creates something for the party to do and keep them involved in something as mundane as walking down a hallway. It gives them a reason to pay attention to detail, ask questions that require the DM to give out information that the players feel is important. I have also found that this gives more reason to explore, seeing those blank squares, that broken line leading somewhere, it bothers people to see something unfinished like that. Some groups really do enjoy it, some groups can't be bothered with it, but that's how it is with many things.
Even a basic outline of a map creates issues when you consider some character builds. Any character that took feats or skills such as dungeon delver/observant or perception/investigation would realize they are wasted when the entire party can just look at the map and see all the areas. Same with certain spells like Arcane Eye and Find the Path.
If you're worried about unexplored rooms going to waste, consider features within the place to entice players towards places you hope they will explore. You need to direct your audience's gaze towards parts of the scene by using cues, just like in the movies.
(One campaign I saw had a number of doors in a ransacked mansion that were open and ajar and, at one place, a door that wasn't opened with another door that was opened. The party went through the closed door as the DM hoped. It was a place that all the other experienced looters didn't bother exploring, considering it worthless, but it had something else to offer the players.)
Getting a map through in-game methods is an option, but it would be my preference to have in-game reasons for acquiring a map, such as coming across someone who's explored the place with a map who will part with the map willingly, unwilling, or because the person is dead and players loot the person.
The truth is that there is likely going to be content that the players miss in a lot of campaigns. That's fine. Many campaigns allow players to have options on how to proceed. Sometimes, content comes out of nowhere due to players' choices. DMs sometimes need to improvise new, unexpected content rather than place invisible walls or killboxes to keep players contained in situations where characters logically have many options. So, it goes both ways. Some content may be missed and some content might be created on-the-spot.
If content was missed, feel free to modify it so you can include it in a different campaign. Even a map is just as likely to not trigger completionist tendencies in D&D.
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Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
Showing the players the map and letting things play out from there.
I sometimes do this, as it makes games quicker and eliminates confusion. Some adventures even have player maps online. As for secret doors: I either photoshop them out, our roll Perception for the party ahead of time (or take average)... often there is at least one elf in the party with a ridiculously high Perception bonus anyway (making those secrets moot). Sometimes I have the PC's find a map ahead of time (or on a body in the first room).
More often though I have the complete dungeon already created on the table (using tiles or Dwarvenforge), with generic tiles covering areas that that haven't been explored yet, (i.e. "reveal as you go").
For overland travel: players should be able to purchase area maps. For overland travel in (unexplored) Chult though (in 'Tomb of Annihilation'), I created 'scratch-off' maps (i.e. large, laminated maps coated with a paint/soap mix that could be scratched-off to reveal terrain as the party explored hexes).
Showing the players the map and letting things play out from there.
[snip]
... For overland travel in (unexplored) Chult though (in 'Tomb of Annihilation'), I created 'scratch-off' maps (i.e. large, laminated maps coated with a paint/soap mix that could be scratched-off to reveal terrain as the party explored hexes).
Ooh! That's a wonderful idea! That never crossed my mind.
Thanks! 😁👍
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
... For overland travel in (unexplored) Chult though (in 'Tomb of Annihilation'), I created 'scratch-off' maps (i.e. large, laminated maps coated with a paint/soap mix that could be scratched-off to reveal terrain as the party explored hexes).
Ooh! That's a wonderful idea!
Recipe: mix 1/3rd liquid (dish) soap with 2/3rds paint, then painted the desired portions of a poster-sized map (from say, vistaprint.com) that is laminated with clear shelf-paper.
If I were going to show them the map, I would have them find one, buy one or be gifted a map by their quest giver. But, I would probably either make a portion of it unreadable as if it were wet once and the ink ran or a fragment of a map that had burned in a fire, or I would just make part of it wrong as if the map maker guessed at some of the areas from information he had heard or just assumed and filled in details he didn't really know. You could also have the map be a copy of a map that the cartographer made after a brief glimpse at the real map. If I wanted them to have an accurate map, I would provide a reason they got hold of an accurate copy, such as a map made from the memory of the architect of the fortress or something.
Depends on what it's a map too. For maps that encompass a large region, I'll often have quest givers or friendly NPCs give them a map. It works out pretty well, since my players like it when I have props and I'll have an actual printout of the map for them to keep. For dungeons or places where enemies are, it really just depends. If its a building, they could totally find a floor plan (although that wouldn't indicate where people/traps are). An old forgotten system of tunnels? Probably no map to find, so I won't show them one. Ultimately, if it makes sense for them to have access to one, or they go and find one, I'll give them a map.
To expand a bit on world maps, in my experience I've found that my players really appreciate it. I also love having access to a world map when I'm the player. If you want your players to explore, have areas that are unexplained or blank. If you have an entire map filled with notes or names of places, but there is this one stretch of mountains that no one goes to, they'll want to go there. Nothing motivates me as a player, or a lot of other players I've met, more than having the chance to explore the unknown. That goes for dungeons too. Don't have a room on the map, have an empty spot. 'We couldn't explore that far, we don't know what is there.' Hearing that from an NPC would get me super excited to explore that dungeon.
Only use maps for battles. Theatre of mind works best for our group for everything else. Less work for the DM, cheaper, less frustrating and being unable to find/make the right graphics, no metagaming, encourages exploration, greatly improves immersion and if you have a good imagnation and a DM who can describe it well: fully 3D interactable scenery with a level of high-definition no screen/image/tv in the world can ever match. Our campaign massivelyimproved the moment we dropped non-battle maps.
I've just abandoned map representation altogether. Some players have trouble visualizing things, but when you get the right group you wouldn't believe how much it speeds everything up.
Well yeah there's always the theatre of the Mind aspect, but its never a bad thing to have representation in the form of a few lines drawn with a sharpy on a pexiglass sheet over a squared map.
Thats how my old DM would do it, he had an old poster siszed squared map from 3rd Ed or something, he would put over it a sheet of plexiglass and simply draw on it using the map under it as a guide, then would take a windex spray and a towel, spray it, clean it, and do the next map.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
An idea too make life easier on dms
Showing the players the map and letting things play out from there.
I think even seeing the rooms could encourage exploration. Rather than seeing the black spots.
"All I'm hearing is words... DO SOMETHING!"
I think it goes against the concept of exploration, and gives information to the players they're not supposed to have.
Click to learn to put cool-looking tooltips in your messages!
Consider this: Zelda games are a master class in dungeon design. And you're allowed to find the maps to the dungeons. Just because you see a room, doesn't mean you know what's inside.
"All I'm hearing is words... DO SOMETHING!"
There's an argument from both sides of that idea.
Showing the players the entirety of the map can give players information about parts of a map that the DM may want to keep hidden. Secret rooms, secondary antechambers, treasure vaults, the boss's room, etc. are all things that DMs want the players to find by critically thinking about how they go through the dungeon. Revealing the whole map also takes some of thrill of exploration from the players as well, they have no reason to stumble around trying to find their way about. It's also a bit odd to think that the players know the entire layout of a location they've never been to, especially if the location is maze like.
Showing the players the map may induce the desire to explore as you say. It also reduces the clutter on a map if you use a physical one covered by something. It's quick, easy, and just allows the game to progress. The only real issue would be the need for two maps, one for the players and one for the DM since the player map would need the hidden doors and secret locations unmarked.
Personally, I prefer a call back to the olden days of D&D: let the players map it out as they go on. Have them designate a cartographer and that person gets the markers. While they explore the cartographer marks it all down on the map. This allows the players to watch, mark, and visualize their own progress. It creates something for the party to do and keep them involved in something as mundane as walking down a hallway. It gives them a reason to pay attention to detail, ask questions that require the DM to give out information that the players feel is important. I have also found that this gives more reason to explore, seeing those blank squares, that broken line leading somewhere, it bothers people to see something unfinished like that. Some groups really do enjoy it, some groups can't be bothered with it, but that's how it is with many things.
Even a basic outline of a map creates issues when you consider some character builds. Any character that took feats or skills such as dungeon delver/observant or perception/investigation would realize they are wasted when the entire party can just look at the map and see all the areas. Same with certain spells like Arcane Eye and Find the Path.
If you're worried about unexplored rooms going to waste, consider features within the place to entice players towards places you hope they will explore. You need to direct your audience's gaze towards parts of the scene by using cues, just like in the movies.
(One campaign I saw had a number of doors in a ransacked mansion that were open and ajar and, at one place, a door that wasn't opened with another door that was opened. The party went through the closed door as the DM hoped. It was a place that all the other experienced looters didn't bother exploring, considering it worthless, but it had something else to offer the players.)
Getting a map through in-game methods is an option, but it would be my preference to have in-game reasons for acquiring a map, such as coming across someone who's explored the place with a map who will part with the map willingly, unwilling, or because the person is dead and players loot the person.
The truth is that there is likely going to be content that the players miss in a lot of campaigns. That's fine. Many campaigns allow players to have options on how to proceed. Sometimes, content comes out of nowhere due to players' choices. DMs sometimes need to improvise new, unexpected content rather than place invisible walls or killboxes to keep players contained in situations where characters logically have many options. So, it goes both ways. Some content may be missed and some content might be created on-the-spot.
If content was missed, feel free to modify it so you can include it in a different campaign. Even a map is just as likely to not trigger completionist tendencies in D&D.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I sometimes do this, as it makes games quicker and eliminates confusion. Some adventures even have player maps online. As for secret doors: I either photoshop them out, our roll Perception for the party ahead of time (or take average)... often there is at least one elf in the party with a ridiculously high Perception bonus anyway (making those secrets moot). Sometimes I have the PC's find a map ahead of time (or on a body in the first room).
More often though I have the complete dungeon already created on the table (using tiles or Dwarvenforge), with generic tiles covering areas that that haven't been explored yet, (i.e. "reveal as you go").
For overland travel: players should be able to purchase area maps. For overland travel in (unexplored) Chult though (in 'Tomb of Annihilation'), I created 'scratch-off' maps (i.e. large, laminated maps coated with a paint/soap mix that could be scratched-off to reveal terrain as the party explored hexes).
Ooh! That's a wonderful idea! That never crossed my mind.
Thanks! 😁👍
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
Recipe: mix 1/3rd liquid (dish) soap with 2/3rds paint, then painted the desired portions of a poster-sized map (from say, vistaprint.com) that is laminated with clear shelf-paper.
If I were going to show them the map, I would have them find one, buy one or be gifted a map by their quest giver. But, I would probably either make a portion of it unreadable as if it were wet once and the ink ran or a fragment of a map that had burned in a fire, or I would just make part of it wrong as if the map maker guessed at some of the areas from information he had heard or just assumed and filled in details he didn't really know. You could also have the map be a copy of a map that the cartographer made after a brief glimpse at the real map. If I wanted them to have an accurate map, I would provide a reason they got hold of an accurate copy, such as a map made from the memory of the architect of the fortress or something.
Depends on what it's a map too. For maps that encompass a large region, I'll often have quest givers or friendly NPCs give them a map. It works out pretty well, since my players like it when I have props and I'll have an actual printout of the map for them to keep. For dungeons or places where enemies are, it really just depends. If its a building, they could totally find a floor plan (although that wouldn't indicate where people/traps are). An old forgotten system of tunnels? Probably no map to find, so I won't show them one. Ultimately, if it makes sense for them to have access to one, or they go and find one, I'll give them a map.
To expand a bit on world maps, in my experience I've found that my players really appreciate it. I also love having access to a world map when I'm the player. If you want your players to explore, have areas that are unexplained or blank. If you have an entire map filled with notes or names of places, but there is this one stretch of mountains that no one goes to, they'll want to go there. Nothing motivates me as a player, or a lot of other players I've met, more than having the chance to explore the unknown. That goes for dungeons too. Don't have a room on the map, have an empty spot. 'We couldn't explore that far, we don't know what is there.' Hearing that from an NPC would get me super excited to explore that dungeon.
Only use maps for battles. Theatre of mind works best for our group for everything else. Less work for the DM, cheaper, less frustrating and being unable to find/make the right graphics, no metagaming, encourages exploration, greatly improves immersion and if you have a good imagnation and a DM who can describe it well: fully 3D interactable scenery with a level of high-definition no screen/image/tv in the world can ever match. Our campaign massively improved the moment we dropped non-battle maps.
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I'd say have a Map for the Dm, with all the details, and a Map who's accuracy is about 75%.
Before photography and modern era tools, cartography accuracy was ..., well just look at ancient world maps...
Players could have bought or found a map of the place, but the scale is all over the place, lots of parts arn't on it or arn't clear/well defined.
"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
Kain de Frostberg- Dark Knight - (Vengeance Pal3/ Hexblade 9), Port Mourn
Kain de Draakberg-Dark Knight lvl8-Avergreen(DitA)
DUDE!! THAT ACTUALLY WORKS!!
"All I'm hearing is words... DO SOMETHING!"
I've just abandoned map representation altogether. Some players have trouble visualizing things, but when you get the right group you wouldn't believe how much it speeds everything up.
Well yeah there's always the theatre of the Mind aspect, but its never a bad thing to have representation in the form of a few lines drawn with a sharpy on a pexiglass sheet over a squared map.
Thats how my old DM would do it, he had an old poster siszed squared map from 3rd Ed or something, he would put over it a sheet of plexiglass and simply draw on it using the map under it as a guide, then would take a windex spray and a towel, spray it, clean it, and do the next map.
"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
Kain de Frostberg- Dark Knight - (Vengeance Pal3/ Hexblade 9), Port Mourn
Kain de Draakberg-Dark Knight lvl8-Avergreen(DitA)