Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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No, if you grab it you follow all the rules for a grab. The grab rules do not reference weight, so you can drag it around just like you would a kobold.
I could put up a long rant here about the fact that what D&D really needs to do is work out a proper (and playable!) system for executing stunts and other non-standard attacks *in combat.* Then the grappling rules would just be a simple subset, feats could be built to improve your chances at them, and so on. But the base system needs to exist FIRST, rather than this constant attempt to create rules for grappling, pushing, shoving, disarming, et cetera, etc.
But rather than rebuild the system from the ground up, let's try this: Grabbing is an unarmed attack, but *grappling* is wrestling, and one of the things that should affect it is SIZE. I would propose, for example, disadvantage against an opponent that is one size category larger than you, and being unable to grapple a creature two sizes or more larger. Something like that. Certain weapons could grant advantage in grappling/grabbing, like lassos, man-catchers, or whips.
So a strong human might be able to successfully grapple a horse, ogre or other large creature, but any creature of huge size or larger is right out. That covers Hercules engaging in a grapple with the Nemean Lion, or a bull, which makes sense. But nobody should be grappling a bull elephant.
That provides a rationale for truly exceptional strength scores (or magical items) that allow characters to exceed these limits - Gauntlets of Ogre Power, or a Belt of Giant Strength, for example, might effectively make you equivalent to the creature in question for this purpose. Now Thor being able to wrestle a giant makes sense.
Just a few thoughts.
I wasn't aware that Wizards had decided contested rolls are bad. Can anyone explain the design philosophy behind that stance?
I wish we knew.
As far as I'm aware, they haven't explicitly stated it as a goal. But new rules keep replacing old ones that used to have contested rolls: Grapple, Hide, persuasions.
It might have something to do with VTT coding, or simpler adventure design. It might be to help DMs make decisions or speed up the game. I have no idea. But all of these changes have some weird side effects that aren't great.
It's not clear that they've decided that, but I think the point is that grappling and shoving is really a unique mechanic in 5e (and not used by monsters), and they want something more standard.
One thing about contested rolls is expertise can really play into it. for me this was never a problem as a player or dm. It rewarded players that preferred to focus on one tactic. (with its strengths and weaknesses) for things like kenku mimicry or actor it was almost necessary just to get effective use out of it. for grappling/ escaping grapples. I can see how some might complain about it being overpowered.
Monsters can totally Grapple and Shove, mine do from time to time.
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Agreed. I for one like contested rolls, I think they add something to the game. Something pseudorealistic even.
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I have never seen a contest of athletics grapple listed on a monster sheet; instead, we have things like
From the player hand book on combat
This means all player actions are available to monsters. although monsters may have a secondary option in their action block.
Monsters can do more than just what appears in their stat blocks. They can also use actions/attacks/etc that are available to all creatures.
From the Basic Rules (and Monster Manual):
Grapples and Shoves are options that are available to all creatures.
What they👆said.
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I am aware of that, but in general the expectation is that a creature's sheet will reflect the normal way of playing the monster, and it's notable that even for monsters where it would totally make sense for them to use the grappling rules, such as a vampire spawn, they (a) do not have such an action mentioned, and (b) do not have athletics.
That is because the vampire spawn and other creatures with grapple in 5e operate differently than the normal grapple rules. When you land an attack with vampire spawn you can choose to grapple rather than deal damage. While they are proposing that for everyone now, before it was unique to vampire spawns claw feature. So that is why it is listed in their stat blocks. Not because other creatures can't or won't do it.
I think it’s just assumed that normal grappling and shoving (and hiding, searching, dashing, etc.) are all universal rules, and therefore don’t need to be reprinted on every statblock. After all, isn’t that the entire point of universal rules?
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The stats of a spear are also universal, but still get listed on the stat block for a guard. The general philosophy for stat blocks appears to be that you should be able to use the monster without looking up rules, so its common tactics, even if universal, still get listed. Grappling is supposed to be a common tactic for the vampire spawn, and in fact they do provide a grapple action on its stat block -- which doesn't work at all like PC grappling in 5e. What they've done in One D&D is given PCs the same grapple mechanics that monsters were already using.
No, the rules for a spear aren’t printed on the guard’s statblock, the rules for a guard making an attack with a spear are what’s printed, including it’s attack and damage modifiers.
And considering how many people are objecting to the grapple rules in 1DD, that should tell you something.
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Having played 3.5 before switching (reluctantly) to 5e, I see these improved grapple rules as a nod towards the 3.5 grapple rules, which were much more complicated but presented enough utility that characters would want to learn them and use them in their encounters. 5e grapple rules really only made themselves useful in situations where the players would want to question an NPC before killing it (at least, in my experience).
~not a "lazy dungeon master"
Wrong. You can grapple or shove a monster one size category than you, but you can’t drag them without a check if they exceed your lift/drag/carry weight. If they are within that range you are slowed. Lift/drag/carry is a specific rule. It is not overwritten by the new grapple rule.
Lifting and Carrying
Your Strength score determines the amount of weight you can bear. The following terms define what you can lift or carry.
Carrying Capacity. Your carrying capacity is your Strength score multiplied by 15. This is the weight (in pounds) that you can carry, which is high enough that most characters don’t usually have to worry about it.
Push, Drag, or Lift. You can push, drag, or lift a weight in pounds up to twice your carrying capacity (or 30 times your Strength score). While pushing or dragging weight in excess of your carrying capacity, your speed drops to 5 feet.
Size and Strength. Larger creatures can bear more weight, whereas Tiny creatures can carry less. For each size category above Medium, double the creature’s carrying capacity and the amount it can push, drag, or lift. For a Tiny creature, halve these weights.
GRAPPLED [CONDITION]
While you are Grappled, you experience the following effects:
Speed 0. Your Speed is 0 and can’t change. Attacks Affected. You have Disadvantage on
Attack Rolls against any target other than the
grappler.
Movable. The grappler can drag or carry you,
but the grappler suffers the Slowed Condition while moving, unless you are Tiny or two or more Sizes smaller than the grappler.
Escape. While Grappled, you can make a Dexterity or Strength Saving Throw against the grapple’s escape DC at the end of each of your turns, ending the Condition on yourself on a success. The Condition also ends if the grappler is Incapacitated or if something moves you outside the grapple’s range without using your Speed.
I didn't say that the 1DD grapple rules are good. Just that they're the same as the grapple rules for monsters in 5e. Personally, I've given vampires athletics and let them use grapple as part of their multiattack (and will likely do the same for other grappling monsters if I use them) because I loathe grapple attacks vs AC, but it's clearly the way grappling is supposed to be used for monsters in 5e.