I'm not so sure it's not 6 attacks total at lvl 17. There's a lot of repetitive language, but looking at each item individually makes it fairly clear (IMO)
Immediately after you use the Attack action with your astral arms on your turn, you can make one extra attack with your astral arms as a bonus action. The number of extra attacks increases when you reach certain levels in this class, increasing to two at 11th level and three at 17th level
This reads that you get 3 attacks as a bonus action if you attack with your astral arms.
Astral Barrage. Whenever you use the Extra Attack feature to attack twice, you can instead attack three times using your astral arms
This reads that you can use the Monk's attack action to attack 3 times instead of 2 if you use your astral arms for the action.
In total this would be 6 attacks, plus the extra martial art die damage from Empowered Arms. So the way I read it is that when combat starts, you spend the 10 ki to summon your full astral self, select a target if you want to (or rather WHY wouldn't you?), then attack 3 times with your astral arms. Next round you can make those 3 astral arm attacks again, and then throw out another 3 astral arm attacks as a bonus action. There's nothing stating that these extra attacks use ki, so if hypothetically 1 target per round goes down within 10 feet of you you would get back those expended ki points in two rounds. You would just need to spend your reaction for each of those rounds
I'm not so sure it's not 6 attacks total at lvl 17. There's a lot of repetitive language, but looking at each item individually makes it fairly clear (IMO)
Immediately after you use the Attack action with your astral arms on your turn, you can make one extra attack with your astral arms as a bonus action. The number of extra attacks increases when you reach certain levels in this class, increasing to two at 11th level and three at 17th level
This reads that you get 3 attacks as a bonus action if you attack with your astral arms.
Astral Barrage. Whenever you use the Extra Attack feature to attack twice, you can instead attack three times using your astral arms
This reads that you can use the Monk's attack action to attack 3 times instead of 2 if you use your astral arms for the action.
In total this would be 6 attacks, plus the extra martial art die damage from Empowered Arms. So the way I read it is that when combat starts, you spend the 10 ki to summon your full astral self, select a target if you want to (or rather WHY wouldn't you?), then attack 3 times with your astral arms. Next round you can make those 3 astral arm attacks again, and then throw out another 3 astral arm attacks as a bonus action. There's nothing stating that these extra attacks use ki, so if hypothetically 1 target per round goes down within 10 feet of you you would get back those expended ki points in two rounds. You would just need to spend your reaction for each of those rounds
Pretty @#%!ing ridiculous, isn't it? Completely dumps on every other monk. 🙄
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I'm not so sure it's not 6 attacks total at lvl 17. There's a lot of repetitive language, but looking at each item individually makes it fairly clear (IMO)
Immediately after you use the Attack action with your astral arms on your turn, you can make one extra attack with your astral arms as a bonus action. The number of extra attacks increases when you reach certain levels in this class, increasing to two at 11th level and three at 17th level
This reads that you get 3 attacks as a bonus action if you attack with your astral arms.
Astral Barrage. Whenever you use the Extra Attack feature to attack twice, you can instead attack three times using your astral arms
This reads that you can use the Monk's attack action to attack 3 times instead of 2 if you use your astral arms for the action.
In total this would be 6 attacks, plus the extra martial art die damage from Empowered Arms. So the way I read it is that when combat starts, you spend the 10 ki to summon your full astral self, select a target if you want to (or rather WHY wouldn't you?), then attack 3 times with your astral arms. Next round you can make those 3 astral arm attacks again, and then throw out another 3 astral arm attacks as a bonus action. There's nothing stating that these extra attacks use ki, so if hypothetically 1 target per round goes down within 10 feet of you you would get back those expended ki points in two rounds. You would just need to spend your reaction for each of those rounds
Pretty @#%!ing ridiculous, isn't it? Completely dumps on every other monk. 🙄
Not really.
Kensai gets 1d10 weapons at 3rd level and the ability to increase AC +2 on every turn.
This gives you reach and WIS for attacks/grapple. The DC increase for stunning strike averages to +1 until later levels where it evens out.
Its really not that powerful until later on.
Granted this gets very powerful at 17th level but Quivering Palm exists at that level. That is an instant kill or 10d10 damage for 3 ki.
This 17th level ability takes 10 ki of your 17 you have at that point. Granted you get it back on a kill but sticking around something waiting for it to die is its own risk.
Scourge: "You told me that the Fey magic would HELP my explosive radiant power!"
Archfey (bored): "Whatever do you mean? It is so much better now."
Scourge: "It's WORSE. MUCH...MUCH WORSE!"
In all seriousness, it's a race-class combo I am very excited to try...a Scourge Aasimar is encouraged to engage in hordes to utilize their "Radiant Consumption" anyway, typically when their friends are hanging back safely. Since it takes an action...using a bonus action "Rage" means there is a chance to stack even more AOE damage, or a useful buff.
Barbarians are also uniquely capable of handling the self-damage aspect of "Radiant Consumption" with their HP.
Honestly, the idea of a wise and mellowed out monk with enormous and enormously violent, sentient arms that carries him around and beats the stuffing out of things sounds like a great character. Make him talk in empty platitudes and make a big deal about being gentle and kind to the world and make him kind of oblivious to the utter disconnect of his approach to combat when he tears apart people in ways that would make Doom Slayer shudder.
Shit, I may have to make this guy.
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Whomsoever reads this: you matter, you are loved, and I wish you the best. Griffith did nothing wrong.
Another Idea: Mix Astral Monk with some dips from Rogue (maybe Assassin or Arcane Trickster) and you get:
Damn, didn't think of Yuuki Terumi for this! This might actually be a good idea but why trickster rogue though? You have my attention now and i want to make him in dnd but i never knew how and you just made my day!
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Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
Another Idea: Mix Astral Monk with some dips from Rogue (maybe Assassin or Arcane Trickster) and you get:
Damn, didn't think of Yuuki Terumi for this! This might actually be a good idea but why trickster rogue though? You have my attention now and i want to make him in dnd but i never knew how and you just made my day!
Charm Person: good spell for a manipulator. Combine it with his smooth Hazama persona.
Disguise Self: alternate between Terumi and Hazama.
Hold Person: roleplay it as Uroboros restraining the target.
Shadow Blade: the sword Terumi creates on his Astral Finish. (Also, by RAW it should count both as a monk weapon and for sneak attack)
Fear: 'nuff said.
Modify Memory: he did screw over Jin Kisaragi. Scratch this one, Arcane Tricksters only get spells up to 4th level. :P
And these are only the spells from the Enchantment and Illusion schools. I'm sure there are spells from other schools that could work wonders for a Yuuki Terumi build. ;)
If we assume monk 17 and fighter 3 (might as well pick up a fighter archetype) you’d have a total of 12 astral arm attacks in one turn if you action surged. That would be 10d10 total if every attack hits (because astral self has a feature allowing you to add extra damage to one attack per turn equal to your martial arts die, and action surge doesn’t give additional bonus actions. So we have a total of 3 arm attacks, 3 bonus arm attacks, action surge for 3 more arm attacks. Add in your extra martial arts for wherever you see fit)
if you go battle master for the fighter archetype, you can toss in some superiority die. Champion will give you the better crit potential. Off the top of my head I don’t see much point in going with one of the other archetypes for this particular setup
If we assume monk 17 and fighter 3 (might as well pick up a fighter archetype) you’d have a total of 12 astral arm attacks in one turn if you action surged. That would be 10d10 total if every attack hits (because astral self has a feature allowing you to add extra damage to one attack per turn equal to your martial arts die, and action surge doesn’t give additional bonus actions. So we have a total of 3 arm attacks, 3 bonus arm attacks, action surge for 3 more arm attacks. Add in your extra martial arts for wherever you see fit)
if you go battle master for the fighter archetype, you can toss in some superiority die. Champion will give you the better crit potential. Off the top of my head I don’t see much point in going with one of the other archetypes for this particular setup
10d10 + (Dex *10)
Assuming max Wisdom that is 105 damage. Granted you get to do that once per short rest.
By comparison a Open Hand Monk can Quivering Palm at this point and do 10d10 damage on a successful save or they go straight to 0 hp on a failed one.
They can do this 6 times per short rest at 18th level.
If we assume monk 17 and fighter 3 (might as well pick up a fighter archetype) you’d have a total of 12 astral arm attacks in one turn if you action surged. That would be 10d10 total if every attack hits (because astral self has a feature allowing you to add extra damage to one attack per turn equal to your martial arts die, and action surge doesn’t give additional bonus actions. So we have a total of 3 arm attacks, 3 bonus arm attacks, action surge for 3 more arm attacks. Add in your extra martial arts for wherever you see fit)
if you go battle master for the fighter archetype, you can toss in some superiority die. Champion will give you the better crit potential. Off the top of my head I don’t see much point in going with one of the other archetypes for this particular setup
10d10 + (Dex *10)
Assuming max Wisdom that is 105 damage. Granted you get to do that once per short rest.
By comparison a Open Hand Monk can Quivering Palm at this point and do 10d10 damage on a successful save or they go straight to 0 hp on a failed one.
They can do this 6 times per short rest at 18th level.
Seems about fair to me with the investment.
I can’t believe I forgot ability modifiers for the damage /facepalm
wouldnt that put max damage at 145 since you’d add your wisdom for each attack?
and I agree that it’s fair compared to quivering palm. Comparing to other combat features from other subclasses, astral self already feels pretty balanced. I’m hoping it becomes official in the future
If we assume monk 17 and fighter 3 (might as well pick up a fighter archetype) you’d have a total of 12 astral arm attacks in one turn if you action surged. That would be 10d10 total if every attack hits (because astral self has a feature allowing you to add extra damage to one attack per turn equal to your martial arts die, and action surge doesn’t give additional bonus actions. So we have a total of 3 arm attacks, 3 bonus arm attacks, action surge for 3 more arm attacks. Add in your extra martial arts for wherever you see fit)
if you go battle master for the fighter archetype, you can toss in some superiority die. Champion will give you the better crit potential. Off the top of my head I don’t see much point in going with one of the other archetypes for this particular setup
Wait... how you manage with action surge 3 attacks? Because Astral Barragesays: Whenever you use the Extra Attack feature to attack twice, you can instead attack three times using your astral arms. Is action surge let you use Extra attack feature again? If that so, then you attack 4 times, not three.
Action surge usage let you make 1 attack, then you extra attack combines with astral barrage, so it would be 4 attacks. In total would be: 1ª action, attack, extra attack feature let you attack 3 times more, bonus action let you 3 attacks more, then you took action surge, use the 2ª action to attack, then extra attack feature activates again and make 3 new attacks... for a total of: 11 attacks with action surge and 7 attacks per turn.
Now, with Empowered Arms. Once on each of your turns when you hit a target with your astral arms, you can deal extra damage to the target equal to your Martial Arts die.
Imaging you successfully attack 11 times, you can extra damage each one of those... that would be 22d10+55 and the damage output would be a colosal amount of 275-165-77 necrotic or radiant damage.
If we assume monk 17 and fighter 3 (might as well pick up a fighter archetype) you’d have a total of 12 astral arm attacks in one turn if you action surged. That would be 10d10 total if every attack hits (because astral self has a feature allowing you to add extra damage to one attack per turn equal to your martial arts die, and action surge doesn’t give additional bonus actions. So we have a total of 3 arm attacks, 3 bonus arm attacks, action surge for 3 more arm attacks. Add in your extra martial arts for wherever you see fit)
if you go battle master for the fighter archetype, you can toss in some superiority die. Champion will give you the better crit potential. Off the top of my head I don’t see much point in going with one of the other archetypes for this particular setup
Wait... how you manage with action surge 3 attacks? Because Astral Barragesays: Whenever you use the Extra Attack feature to attack twice, you can instead attack three times using your astral arms. Is action surge let you use Extra attack feature again? If that so, then you attack 4 times, not three.
Action surge usage let you make 1 attack, then you extra attack combines with astral barrage, so it would be 4 attacks. In total would be: 1ª action, attack, extra attack feature let you attack 3 times more, bonus action let you 3 attacks more, then you took action surge, use the 2ª action to attack, then extra attack feature activates again and make 3 new attacks... for a total of: 11 attacks with action surge and 7 attacks per turn.
Now, with Empowered Arms. Once on each of your turns when you hit a target with your astral arms, you can deal extra damage to the target equal to your Martial Arts die.
Imaging you successfully attack 11 times, you can extra damage each one of those... that would be 22d10+55 and the damage output would be a colosal amount of 275-165-77 necrotic or radiant damage.
The extra attack feature for monks means you can make 2 total attacks when taking the attack action. The astral arm feature reads that you can make a total of 3 attacks when attacking with your astral arms. Action surge gives you an additional action for your turn, so you can make any number of extra attacks granted by that feature. That’s why it’s a total of 9 astral arm attacks.
also, empowered arms can only be used once per turn
If we assume monk 17 and fighter 3 (might as well pick up a fighter archetype) you’d have a total of 12 astral arm attacks in one turn if you action surged. That would be 10d10 total if every attack hits (because astral self has a feature allowing you to add extra damage to one attack per turn equal to your martial arts die, and action surge doesn’t give additional bonus actions. So we have a total of 3 arm attacks, 3 bonus arm attacks, action surge for 3 more arm attacks. Add in your extra martial arts for wherever you see fit)
if you go battle master for the fighter archetype, you can toss in some superiority die. Champion will give you the better crit potential. Off the top of my head I don’t see much point in going with one of the other archetypes for this particular setup
Wait... how you manage with action surge 3 attacks? Because Astral Barragesays: Whenever you use the Extra Attack feature to attack twice, you can instead attack three times using your astral arms. Is action surge let you use Extra attack feature again? If that so, then you attack 4 times, not three.
Action surge usage let you make 1 attack, then you extra attack combines with astral barrage, so it would be 4 attacks. In total would be: 1ª action, attack, extra attack feature let you attack 3 times more, bonus action let you 3 attacks more, then you took action surge, use the 2ª action to attack, then extra attack feature activates again and make 3 new attacks... for a total of: 11 attacks with action surge and 7 attacks per turn.
Now, with Empowered Arms. Once on each of your turns when you hit a target with your astral arms, you can deal extra damage to the target equal to your Martial Arts die.
Imaging you successfully attack 11 times, you can extra damage each one of those... that would be 22d10+55 and the damage output would be a colosal amount of 275-165-77 necrotic or radiant damage.
I'm not so sure it's not 6 attacks total at lvl 17. There's a lot of repetitive language, but looking at each item individually makes it fairly clear (IMO)
This reads that you get 3 attacks as a bonus action if you attack with your astral arms.
This reads that you can use the Monk's attack action to attack 3 times instead of 2 if you use your astral arms for the action.
In total this would be 6 attacks, plus the extra martial art die damage from Empowered Arms. So the way I read it is that when combat starts, you spend the 10 ki to summon your full astral self, select a target if you want to (or rather WHY wouldn't you?), then attack 3 times with your astral arms. Next round you can make those 3 astral arm attacks again, and then throw out another 3 astral arm attacks as a bonus action. There's nothing stating that these extra attacks use ki, so if hypothetically 1 target per round goes down within 10 feet of you you would get back those expended ki points in two rounds. You would just need to spend your reaction for each of those rounds
Pretty @#%!ing ridiculous, isn't it? Completely dumps on every other monk. 🙄
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Another Idea: Mix Astral Monk with some dips from Rogue (maybe Assassin or Arcane Trickster) and you get:
Keep in mind you can't sneak attack with either your unarmed strikes or Astral Arms, since they aren't finesse weapons.
True that. :( Well, at least you could get Expertise on Athletics checks to grapple people at 10 feet. :P
Not really.
Kensai gets 1d10 weapons at 3rd level and the ability to increase AC +2 on every turn.
This gives you reach and WIS for attacks/grapple. The DC increase for stunning strike averages to +1 until later levels where it evens out.
Its really not that powerful until later on.
Granted this gets very powerful at 17th level but Quivering Palm exists at that level. That is an instant kill or 10d10 damage for 3 ki.
This 17th level ability takes 10 ki of your 17 you have at that point. Granted you get it back on a kill but sticking around something waiting for it to die is its own risk.
Overall its on par with the others.
@Suiko @Vicolesso
Don't f@#& with squirrels, Morty!
Astral Monk is Morty-arm x2.
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Hmm...Scourge Aasimar barbarian with Wild Soul.
Scourge: "You told me that the Fey magic would HELP my explosive radiant power!"
Archfey (bored): "Whatever do you mean? It is so much better now."
Scourge: "It's WORSE. MUCH...MUCH WORSE!"
In all seriousness, it's a race-class combo I am very excited to try...a Scourge Aasimar is encouraged to engage in hordes to utilize their "Radiant Consumption" anyway, typically when their friends are hanging back safely. Since it takes an action...using a bonus action "Rage" means there is a chance to stack even more AOE damage, or a useful buff.
Barbarians are also uniquely capable of handling the self-damage aspect of "Radiant Consumption" with their HP.
Honestly, the idea of a wise and mellowed out monk with enormous and enormously violent, sentient arms that carries him around and beats the stuffing out of things sounds like a great character. Make him talk in empty platitudes and make a big deal about being gentle and kind to the world and make him kind of oblivious to the utter disconnect of his approach to combat when he tears apart people in ways that would make Doom Slayer shudder.
Shit, I may have to make this guy.
Whomsoever reads this: you matter, you are loved, and I wish you the best.
Griffith did nothing wrong.
Damn, didn't think of Yuuki Terumi for this! This might actually be a good idea but why trickster rogue though? You have my attention now and i want to make him in dnd but i never knew how and you just made my day!
Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
Charm Person: good spell for a manipulator. Combine it with his smooth Hazama persona.
Disguise Self: alternate between Terumi and Hazama.
Hold Person: roleplay it as Uroboros restraining the target.
Shadow Blade: the sword Terumi creates on his Astral Finish. (Also, by RAW it should count both as a monk weapon and for sneak attack)
Fear: 'nuff said.
Modify Memory: he did screw over Jin Kisaragi.Scratch this one, Arcane Tricksters only get spells up to 4th level. :PAnd these are only the spells from the Enchantment and Illusion schools. I'm sure there are spells from other schools that could work wonders for a Yuuki Terumi build. ;)
I created an astral monk and play it on sunday campaign. It was friggin' awesome.
I'm planning to multi-class on battlemaster Figther monk for more control and debuff in each attack.
Seems like a good plan to me! Ki loss might be bad but honestly the three attacks and the occasional stun would be good.
I wonder how Astral Monk, Action Surge optimizes!
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If we assume monk 17 and fighter 3 (might as well pick up a fighter archetype) you’d have a total of 12 astral arm attacks in one turn if you action surged. That would be 10d10 total if every attack hits (because astral self has a feature allowing you to add extra damage to one attack per turn equal to your martial arts die, and action surge doesn’t give additional bonus actions. So we have a total of 3 arm attacks, 3 bonus arm attacks, action surge for 3 more arm attacks. Add in your extra martial arts for wherever you see fit)
if you go battle master for the fighter archetype, you can toss in some superiority die. Champion will give you the better crit potential. Off the top of my head I don’t see much point in going with one of the other archetypes for this particular setup
10d10 + (Dex *10)
Assuming max Wisdom that is 105 damage. Granted you get to do that once per short rest.
By comparison a Open Hand Monk can Quivering Palm at this point and do 10d10 damage on a successful save or they go straight to 0 hp on a failed one.
They can do this 6 times per short rest at 18th level.
Seems about fair to me with the investment.
I can’t believe I forgot ability modifiers for the damage /facepalm
wouldnt that put max damage at 145 since you’d add your wisdom for each attack?
and I agree that it’s fair compared to quivering palm. Comparing to other combat features from other subclasses, astral self already feels pretty balanced. I’m hoping it becomes official in the future
Wait... how you manage with action surge 3 attacks? Because Astral Barrage says: Whenever you use the Extra Attack feature to attack twice, you can instead attack three times using your astral arms. Is action surge let you use Extra attack feature again? If that so, then you attack 4 times, not three.
Action surge usage let you make 1 attack, then you extra attack combines with astral barrage, so it would be 4 attacks. In total would be: 1ª action, attack, extra attack feature let you attack 3 times more, bonus action let you 3 attacks more, then you took action surge, use the 2ª action to attack, then extra attack feature activates again and make 3 new attacks... for a total of: 11 attacks with action surge and 7 attacks per turn.
Now, with Empowered Arms. Once on each of your turns when you hit a target with your astral arms, you can deal extra damage to the target equal to your Martial Arts die.
Imaging you successfully attack 11 times, you can extra damage each one of those... that would be 22d10+55 and the damage output would be a colosal amount of 275-165-77 necrotic or radiant damage.
In a table would be like this
The extra attack feature for monks means you can make 2 total attacks when taking the attack action. The astral arm feature reads that you can make a total of 3 attacks when attacking with your astral arms. Action surge gives you an additional action for your turn, so you can make any number of extra attacks granted by that feature. That’s why it’s a total of 9 astral arm attacks.
also, empowered arms can only be used once per turn
What even is this math? You seem to be describing everything right(ish) then coming to a separate conclusion that doesn't match what you said.
You get 3 attacks with each action and bonus action. Action surge gives +1 action. 3+3+3=9 attacks. Where did the extra 2 attacks come from?
You correctly quote that empowered arms can be used once per turn, then use it 11 times in one turn.
Max damage is 10d10+45 with actions surge, 7d10+30 without.