Let's break the game a little. Astral Monk and Moon Druid multiclass. Could it A) keep the spectral arms when they Wildshape, or B) summon the spectral arms while already Wildshaping? Thoughts?
Okay, so looking at the Wild Surge table, there's an even mix of effects that are single-use and persistent. I'm trying to understand how that works with the capstone at 14th level that lets you roll for a new effect as a bonus action every turn while raging. Does that mean you can just roll again for a new effect after getting one of the single-use rolls?
Let's break the game a little. Astral Monk and Moon Druid multiclass. Could it A) keep the spectral arms when they Wildshape, or B) summon the spectral arms while already Wildshaping? Thoughts?
I would think Yes and Yes. I dont think it actually gains many more benefits than a normal monk/druid multiclass. You can use the arms with multiattack and it slows progression of both classes. A 2 level moon druid dip could be fun for role play, versatility, and extra HP (plus you can focus entirely on WIS and let the wild forms worry about DEX).
Let's break the game a little. Astral Monk and Moon Druid multiclass. Could it A) keep the spectral arms when they Wildshape, or B) summon the spectral arms while already Wildshaping? Thoughts?
I have done some pondering on RAW wild shape, and it seems that spells are off-limits until high level, but class skill features (which are not always spells) are fair game. Examples are smiting or action surge in wild shape.
This opens the possibility for champion/ druid/ astral monk to do some heavy work, especially with half-orc and the half-orc feat in XGE, as a critical-hit melee damage build.
Tavern Brawler... you can grapple as a bonus action and still have three arms with which to hit. I don't know why I like this idea, but i do. It might just be a funny visual.
I have done some pondering on RAW wild shape, and it seems that spells are off-limits until high level, but class skill features (which are not always spells) are fair game. Examples are smiting or action surge in wild shape.
I have a friend who sometimes requests me to make crazy multiclassing builds. I did one for a Draconic Sorcerer/Moon Druid that really scared him. If, as you say, your DM allows some key features because they aren't exactly spells (Draconic Resilience and Dragon Wings), you could Wildshape into a scaly winged rhinoceros. Basically, you're a buffed up pegasus/unicorn. XD
Honestly, I'm surprised it took this long for us to get something like Astral Monk in the UA. Sun Soul already made Jojo Pt. 1 and 2 viable along with other anime tropes. And this is admittedly a much more balanced idea than what we could have had from some kind of Mystic build. As is, I think it's okay. Makes the low strength monk have a few more tricks to get around their biggest flaw, and gives an odd bonus to intimidation.
But the Moon Druid multiclass suggestion make me crack up. We can have a Half-Orc Moon Druid/Astral Soul Monk become a crit-fishing, Stand User Dire Bear. Or alternatively, we have made the Multibear be heard all over the town. This is glorious.
I have done some pondering on RAW wild shape, and it seems that spells are off-limits until high level, but class skill features (which are not always spells) are fair game. Examples are smiting or action surge in wild shape.
I have a friend who sometimes requests me to make crazy multiclassing builds. I did one for a Draconic Sorcerer/Moon Druid that really scared him. If, as you say, your DM allows some key features because they aren't exactly spells (Draconic Resilience and Dragon Wings), you could Wildshape into a scaly winged rhinoceros. Basically, you're a buffed up pegasus/unicorn. XD
Yes, sounds good. Unfortunately RAW, I seem to remember that you have to take the beast's AC and maybe movement characteristics. I am not sure on the Dragon Wings though, that is a cool idea.
A Monk that attacks more than any other subclass, does so at range, has a better ability score dependency, requires significantly less Ki, AND recharges Ki?!.. @#$!. OFF.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I have done some pondering on RAW wild shape, and it seems that spells are off-limits until high level, but class skill features (which are not always spells) are fair game. Examples are smiting or action surge in wild shape.
I have a friend who sometimes requests me to make crazy multiclassing builds. I did one for a Draconic Sorcerer/Moon Druid that really scared him. If, as you say, your DM allows some key features because they aren't exactly spells (Draconic Resilience and Dragon Wings), you could Wildshape into a scaly winged rhinoceros. Basically, you're a buffed up pegasus/unicorn. XD
Yes, sounds good. Unfortunately RAW, I seem to remember that you have to take the beast's AC and maybe movement characteristics. I am not sure on the Dragon Wings though, that is a cool idea.
That's the thing, they're both class features. «You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so». Draconic Resilience just covers your skin with scales, and Rhino has skin; and with Dragon Wings there isn't any physical restriction in play like needing to do somatic signs, like when casting a spell. You just think and POOF!, wings. So RAW they both should work. ;) I'd allow it, just for the lols.
A Monk that attacks more than any other subclass, does so at range, has a better ability score dependency, requires significantly less Ki, AND recharges Ki?!.. @#$!. OFF.
It must be the work of an enemy Stand!
Also, although I'm new to the game, don't we already have magic barbarians in one way or another? Ancestral, Storm Herald and Totem are definitely magically influenced imo. Sure, they're not a straight up magic battery like a Wild Magic barbarian seems to be, but magic (simple or otherwise) is a key component of the aforementioned subclasses.
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Whomsoever reads this: you matter, you are loved, and I wish you the best. Griffith did nothing wrong.
A Monk that attacks more than any other subclass, does so at range, has a better ability score dependency, requires significantly less Ki, AND recharges Ki?!.. @#$!. OFF.
It must be the work of an enemy Stand!
Also, although I'm new to the game, don't we already have magic barbarians in one way or another? Ancestral, Storm Herald and Totem are definitely magically influenced imo. Sure, they're not a straight up magic battery like a Wild Magic barbarian seems to be, but magic (simple or otherwise) is a key component of the aforementioned subclasses.
The Barbarian class, and any attempt to add magical properties to it, has irked me for years. The Barbarian is constantly referred to as the physical powerhouse, and explicitly divorced from magic.
I sigh every time someone tries to make a magic barb, not because they don't have a neat concept worth exploring, but because it's not a Barbarian. A magic barb is just a more physical Druid substituting Wildshape for Rage. Just do that, or make a full "Shaman" class already. That's reasonable.
Otherwise, all I hear is "I want a Barbarian that ignores one of the core components of being a Barbarian, and I want to ignore the single greatest restriction that the class is balanced on."
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
See, there's a bit of confusing language in the Astral Self's text. It mentions the arms getting an eventual three attacks as a bonus action by 17th level. When can you get Complete Astral Self? 17th level. It's worded to give three attacks as a bonus action as well. I don't think it stacks. There is nothing that mentions these stacking, so it's reasonable to ascertain that RAI is that the maximum attacks per round will be 5. That isn't the highest number of attacks granted by a subclass. Seven is the number to beat, as that's what a similarly leveled Drunken Master can perform with a single ki point per round. Now the Drunken Master also has the limitation that the five flurry attacks it can make must each be thrown at a different enemy to get the full number. Against a single target, it's only 4 attacks. If you said that this is the most that a single subclass gets against a single target, I'd agree. But then the Fighter can still pull more out, with a wider range of damage types to boot.
As for the range aspect, the Sun Soul monk is regularly throwing ranged attacks from level 3 onward at a greater distance for zero ki. Damage is mostly the same in terms of numbers per hit, but the Astral Self can merely add an extra die to the damage of one successful attack. That's still nowhere near the damage yield that most rogues or even a crit fishing paladin can bring to bear. The absolute best damage that the Astral Self Monk can bring on a critical hit is 6d10 + 5 without magical assistance. And that required making it a Half-Orc and maxing one of the stats it could use. Without a crit, that damage is cut to at most 2d10 +5.
I just had a random image with my previously mentioned Monk/Druid:
The gate guard hears some weird noises at his feets and looks down. There he sees a puny squirrel looking directly into his eyes. He shoos the critter away and try to scare it with his spear. The squirrel seems to point at him with a finger when suddenly two ghostly arms appear from nowhere and beat the [censored] out of him. "Squeak squeaker squeak squeakity, mother****er."
Did some quick (and probably wrong) math and a low-level Astral Self Monk whose primary ability (+3) is Wisdom lacks some damage. The spectral arms are a monk weapon, so they start at d4 for damage. Not great. At least they qualify for the requisite of Martial Arts bonus attack and Flurry of Blows.
It's not my intent to sound like a min-maxer, but a two-handed Quarterstaff (plus one or two unarmed strikes) using DEX does more damage than any combination of Arm+Arm/Arm+Unarmed/Arm+Unarmed+Unarmed using WIS+DEX. It seems that starting with more WIS than DEX isn't exactly optimal at low level, right? I love both Persona and JoJo, so this subclass is just for me, and I almost never play optimal builds but I like being informed of all the possibilities.
With all of the extra attacks you get at higher levels I think this beats the staff.
So if you wanted to make an Astral Self monk, what would your stats/build be?
Wisdom is the golden stat. Most of the features depend on it.
Dexterity is the only remaining stat of any value.
Perhaps Constitution.
Would you take any particular feat . Or just ASI's?
Sentinel has its uses since your reach becomes 10 feet. Other than that it widely depends on character backstory.
Let's break the game a little. Astral Monk and Moon Druid multiclass. Could it A) keep the spectral arms when they Wildshape, or B) summon the spectral arms while already Wildshaping? Thoughts?
I believe that is the intent.
I would think Yes and Yes. I dont think it actually gains many more benefits than a normal monk/druid multiclass. You can use the arms with multiattack and it slows progression of both classes. A 2 level moon druid dip could be fun for role play, versatility, and extra HP (plus you can focus entirely on WIS and let the wild forms worry about DEX).
We'll have the details when we do the numbers.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I have done some pondering on RAW wild shape, and it seems that spells are off-limits until high level, but class skill features (which are not always spells) are fair game. Examples are smiting or action surge in wild shape.
This opens the possibility for champion/ druid/ astral monk to do some heavy work, especially with half-orc and the half-orc feat in XGE, as a critical-hit melee damage build.
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Tavern Brawler... you can grapple as a bonus action and still have three arms with which to hit. I don't know why I like this idea, but i do. It might just be a funny visual.
I have a friend who sometimes requests me to make crazy multiclassing builds. I did one for a Draconic Sorcerer/Moon Druid that really scared him. If, as you say, your DM allows some key features because they aren't exactly spells (Draconic Resilience and Dragon Wings), you could Wildshape into a scaly winged rhinoceros. Basically, you're a buffed up pegasus/unicorn. XD
Honestly, I'm surprised it took this long for us to get something like Astral Monk in the UA. Sun Soul already made Jojo Pt. 1 and 2 viable along with other anime tropes. And this is admittedly a much more balanced idea than what we could have had from some kind of Mystic build. As is, I think it's okay. Makes the low strength monk have a few more tricks to get around their biggest flaw, and gives an odd bonus to intimidation.
But the Moon Druid multiclass suggestion make me crack up. We can have a Half-Orc Moon Druid/Astral Soul Monk become a crit-fishing, Stand User Dire Bear. Or alternatively, we have made the Multibear be heard all over the town. This is glorious.
Yes, sounds good. Unfortunately RAW, I seem to remember that you have to take the beast's AC and maybe movement characteristics. I am not sure on the Dragon Wings though, that is a cool idea.
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A magic Barbarian... @#$! off.
A Monk that attacks more than any other subclass, does so at range, has a better ability score dependency, requires significantly less Ki, AND recharges Ki?!.. @#$!. OFF.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
That's the thing, they're both class features. «You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so». Draconic Resilience just covers your skin with scales, and Rhino has skin; and with Dragon Wings there isn't any physical restriction in play like needing to do somatic signs, like when casting a spell. You just think and POOF!, wings. So RAW they both should work. ;) I'd allow it, just for the lols.
It must be the work of an enemy Stand!
Also, although I'm new to the game, don't we already have magic barbarians in one way or another? Ancestral, Storm Herald and Totem are definitely magically influenced imo. Sure, they're not a straight up magic battery like a Wild Magic barbarian seems to be, but magic (simple or otherwise) is a key component of the aforementioned subclasses.
Whomsoever reads this: you matter, you are loved, and I wish you the best.
Griffith did nothing wrong.
The Barbarian class, and any attempt to add magical properties to it, has irked me for years. The Barbarian is constantly referred to as the physical powerhouse, and explicitly divorced from magic.
I sigh every time someone tries to make a magic barb, not because they don't have a neat concept worth exploring, but because it's not a Barbarian. A magic barb is just a more physical Druid substituting Wildshape for Rage. Just do that, or make a full "Shaman" class already. That's reasonable.
Otherwise, all I hear is "I want a Barbarian that ignores one of the core components of being a Barbarian, and I want to ignore the single greatest restriction that the class is balanced on."
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
See, there's a bit of confusing language in the Astral Self's text. It mentions the arms getting an eventual three attacks as a bonus action by 17th level. When can you get Complete Astral Self? 17th level. It's worded to give three attacks as a bonus action as well. I don't think it stacks. There is nothing that mentions these stacking, so it's reasonable to ascertain that RAI is that the maximum attacks per round will be 5. That isn't the highest number of attacks granted by a subclass. Seven is the number to beat, as that's what a similarly leveled Drunken Master can perform with a single ki point per round. Now the Drunken Master also has the limitation that the five flurry attacks it can make must each be thrown at a different enemy to get the full number. Against a single target, it's only 4 attacks. If you said that this is the most that a single subclass gets against a single target, I'd agree. But then the Fighter can still pull more out, with a wider range of damage types to boot.
As for the range aspect, the Sun Soul monk is regularly throwing ranged attacks from level 3 onward at a greater distance for zero ki. Damage is mostly the same in terms of numbers per hit, but the Astral Self can merely add an extra die to the damage of one successful attack. That's still nowhere near the damage yield that most rogues or even a crit fishing paladin can bring to bear. The absolute best damage that the Astral Self Monk can bring on a critical hit is 6d10 + 5 without magical assistance. And that required making it a Half-Orc and maxing one of the stats it could use. Without a crit, that damage is cut to at most 2d10 +5.
I just had a random image with my previously mentioned Monk/Druid:
The gate guard hears some weird noises at his feets and looks down. There he sees a puny squirrel looking directly into his eyes. He shoos the critter away and try to scare it with his spear. The squirrel seems to point at him with a finger when suddenly two ghostly arms appear from nowhere and beat the [censored] out of him. "Squeak squeaker squeak squeakity, mother****er."
Which is squirrelspeak for "Omae wa mou shindeiru, mother****er."
Whomsoever reads this: you matter, you are loved, and I wish you the best.
Griffith did nothing wrong.
With all of the extra attacks you get at higher levels I think this beats the staff.
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