Okay, now in seriousness, I think one thing we should remember for this conversation is that the damage-switching metamagic from the class feature variants is not official, it's just UA. I think it's a mistake to use that as a basis for judgement other UA when the reality is it might disappear and never become official.
My personal opinion on this is that damage switching is strong, but not overpowered. That said, I feel that damage switching should be a part of sorcerers, not of wizards. Wizards already live a pretty good life. I'm hesitant to give them more mechanically.
Damage switching is 100% not OP. This version of it? Yes! Unlimited damage switching to any damage type of any spell written in your spellbook! No action economy loss. No limit to damage types! No limit to Absorb Elements or Protection from Energy! No limit to what spell it is applied to! IT'S FREAKING BROKEN!!!
It needs to be limited, and have other restrictions to keep it from being abused a ton.
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Scribe pre level 10 is the best wizard subclass that has ever been in a UA.
That's kind of the crux of it. It's a wizard subclass that's basically the best most wizardy wizard. Why then even have other wizards?
Other wizard subclasses require some specialization to benefit from their subclass features. Scribe doesn't.
It can copy wizard spells faster and cheaper without restriction to school making it have a larger arsenal of spells to choose from. In addition it doesn't need to bother considering type damage when preparing spells meaning it doesn't need as many spells as other wizards do and can benefit from non-ritual spells without even preparing them. It can benefit from those spells even if it lacks the material components necessary to cast them (such as with Chromatic Orb's 50 gp diamond requirement).
Other wizard subclasses prepare spells for day to day situations. The Scribe writes scrolls so it's nearly always prepared for every situation.
It can create spell scrolls (of any rarity) faster and cheaper than other wizards meaning there are fewer niche spells it ever has to consider preparing, instead of thinking ahead about the party's plans and preparing feather fall just in case... write a few scrolls and never bother thinking about it again. It has whatever it needs in terms of spells more or less always.
It can easily gain more spells than average, needs fewer spells than other wizards, spends fewer spell slots on niche non-ritual spells via scrolls, gets an extra prepared spell per day without the cost of a spell slot, and can fast track rituals once per day.
A lot of these features would have been less powerful on other spellcasting classes. Such as the bard, sorceror, or warlock, or even the Artificer. Putting them on a wizard is too much. In it's current form it's bonkers overpowered.
I agree 100% with this post.
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A wizard subclass letting them use one of the sorcerer's metamagics for free?
God, who would ever
EVOCATION WIZARD?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!
do such a thing?
Yeah, but the Evocation wizard's main ability is actually balanced. This one isn't. This one is largely based on dealing more damage in certain circumstances, while the Evoker's ability is to prevent damage that they'd deal to allies. There's really no reason to compare the two other than the fact sorcerers can use metamagic to do these certain things.
I believe his point is that a Wizard subclass stepping on the toes of the Sorcerer class isn't unprecedented, but that doesn't stop people from using that as an argument. The same thing happened with the Onomancer and its true name "metamagic".
But it's a slippery slope to say "the Evoker did it, so it doesn't matter if any other wizard subclass does it!"
That's not true. The evoker's ability is reasonable. It's limited to only evocation spells, it is a minor buff in the sense that you're not killing your party members on accident, and that it is limited to the amount of creatures it it effective on.
This ability has no such limitations.
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I get what you're saying, but another way of looking at it is that this makes the pre-existing subclasses feel almost lacking.
Maybe the cost of jotting down spells in your book shouldn't have been so expensive to begin with. Maybe the Wizard should have always been able to scribe scrolls with ease to begin with, or at least scribe those in your school with ease for the school subclasses. Maybe the Wizard should have had a magic quill to go along with their spellbook. Maybe the Wizard should have always had the option of using the book as a focus past a certain point.
In that case the solution isn't a subclass but a redesign of the base class or some other released class feature variant options, and then replace the features of the Scribe with different ones since some of those features would suddenly become meaningless.
Honestly, I agree that the Wizard should have always been able to use their spell book as an arcane focus, that just makes sense.
I was upset that the Wizard didn't get more from the Class Feature Variants UA. Letting them use their spellbook as a spellcasting focus, be better at scribing scrolls, and et cetera would make great features that aren't overall class boosts, but nice small perks that the wizard needs, IMO.
It's much easier to adapt a playtest subclass to the power-level of the other subclasses than to redesign all of the past subclasses to fit with this subclass's power level. That would be absolutely idiotic. Just reduce this subclass's power, take a few of the features that should be given to all wizards and put them in the Class Feature Variants, choose what you actually want this subclass to be like, and then you're done.
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True name magic doesn't have to be restricted to Fiends. I could imagine it being a key part of Celestials, Modrons, and Slaad as well. Also, just the fact that it effects the outsider creatures more doesn't mean that it shouldn't effect humanoids as well.
Also, I am 90% sure that the next time we see an onomancer, it will be a Bard subclass.
College of Names? And I know it doesn't have to be restricted to extraplanar creatures, but at present, that's where it shows up in the game barring homebrew.
It'd have to be a cooler name than College of Names, but yeah. A College of Honor, College of Stature, College of Fame, College of Renown, College of Repute, or a College of Eminence. All of those names could work for a "College of True Naming".
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Okay, now in seriousness, I think one thing we should remember for this conversation is that the damage-switching metamagic from the class feature variants is not official, it's just UA. I think it's a mistake to use that as a basis for judgement other UA when the reality is it might disappear and never become official.
My personal opinion on this is that damage switching is strong, but not overpowered. That said, I feel that damage switching should be a part of sorcerers, not of wizards. Wizards already live a pretty good life. I'm hesitant to give them more mechanically.
Damage switching is 100% not OP. This version of it? Yes! Unlimited damage switching to any damage type of any spell written in your spellbook! No action economy loss. No limit to damage types! No limit to Absorb Elements or Protection from Energy! No limit to what spell it is applied to! IT'S FREAKING BROKEN!!!
It needs to be limited, and have other restrictions to keep it from being abused a ton.
We disagree on how big of an impact it would be. it makes me roll my eyes the way they have it implemented, but I wouldn't feel like I had to account for this if I was DMing for it either.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Okay, now in seriousness, I think one thing we should remember for this conversation is that the damage-switching metamagic from the class feature variants is not official, it's just UA. I think it's a mistake to use that as a basis for judgement other UA when the reality is it might disappear and never become official.
My personal opinion on this is that damage switching is strong, but not overpowered. That said, I feel that damage switching should be a part of sorcerers, not of wizards. Wizards already live a pretty good life. I'm hesitant to give them more mechanically.
Damage switching is 100% not OP. This version of it? Yes! Unlimited damage switching to any damage type of any spell written in your spellbook! No action economy loss. No limit to damage types! No limit to Absorb Elements or Protection from Energy! No limit to what spell it is applied to! IT'S FREAKING BROKEN!!!
It needs to be limited, and have other restrictions to keep it from being abused a ton.
We disagree on how big of an impact it would be. it makes me roll my eyes the way they have it implemented, but I wouldn't feel like I had to account for this if I was DMing for it either.
The impact will often be nothing if used incorrectly. The impact if used strategically can be game breaking in key circumstances.
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A Bag of Holding that you can only access once per day is not as useful as an actual Bag of Holding which is only an uncommon magic item.
It provides shelter for a short rest but only for yourself until level 10, and again only once per day.
This is a very useful ability, but I really don't think it is game breaking
This^
That's exactly how I feel about this ability. Useful, not crazy, though.
Just cannot wait till a Warlock PC has a bag of holding hops in for a rest lol
Artificers can replicate a bag of holding at level 2. Also, this could be a convenient way of storing all of your bags of holding if you have multiple and they're too heavy.
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Okay, now in seriousness, I think one thing we should remember for this conversation is that the damage-switching metamagic from the class feature variants is not official, it's just UA. I think it's a mistake to use that as a basis for judgement other UA when the reality is it might disappear and never become official.
My personal opinion on this is that damage switching is strong, but not overpowered. That said, I feel that damage switching should be a part of sorcerers, not of wizards. Wizards already live a pretty good life. I'm hesitant to give them more mechanically.
Damage switching is 100% not OP. This version of it? Yes! Unlimited damage switching to any damage type of any spell written in your spellbook! No action economy loss. No limit to damage types! No limit to Absorb Elements or Protection from Energy! No limit to what spell it is applied to! IT'S FREAKING BROKEN!!!
It needs to be limited, and have other restrictions to keep it from being abused a ton.
We disagree on how big of an impact it would be. it makes me roll my eyes the way they have it implemented, but I wouldn't feel like I had to account for this if I was DMing for it either.
The impact will often be nothing if used incorrectly. The impact if used strategically can be game breaking in key circumstances.
That's where I disagree. I don't think it will ever be game breaking.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
A Bag of Holding that you can only access once per day is not as useful as an actual Bag of Holding which is only an uncommon magic item.
It provides shelter for a short rest but only for yourself until level 10, and again only once per day.
This is a very useful ability, but I really don't think it is game breaking
This^
That's exactly how I feel about this ability. Useful, not crazy, though.
Just cannot wait till a Warlock PC has a bag of holding hops in for a rest lol
It is not a Bag of Holding, Portable Hole or Handy Haversack so it should not cause any issues. If anything it is more comparable to a Magnificent Mansion.
A Bag of Holding that you can only access once per day is not as useful as an actual Bag of Holding which is only an uncommon magic item.
It provides shelter for a short rest but only for yourself until level 10, and again only once per day.
This is a very useful ability, but I really don't think it is game breaking
This^
That's exactly how I feel about this ability. Useful, not crazy, though.
Just cannot wait till a Warlock PC has a bag of holding hops in for a rest lol
It is not a Bag of Holding, Portable Hole or Handy Haversack so it should not cause any issues. If anything it is more comparable to a Magnificent Mansion.
Yes, but you can store things inside of it. You can transport exponentially more items inside of it, even if you can only access it once a day.
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At Level 5 neither the Scribe nor Phantom features have had any real effect on the game we played. This was kind of what I expected however. The game that starts in about 30 minutes will be the same characters at level 10.
Okay, now in seriousness, I think one thing we should remember for this conversation is that the damage-switching metamagic from the class feature variants is not official, it's just UA. I think it's a mistake to use that as a basis for judgement other UA when the reality is it might disappear and never become official.
My personal opinion on this is that damage switching is strong, but not overpowered. That said, I feel that damage switching should be a part of sorcerers, not of wizards. Wizards already live a pretty good life. I'm hesitant to give them more mechanically.
Damage switching is 100% not OP. This version of it? Yes! Unlimited damage switching to any damage type of any spell written in your spellbook! No action economy loss. No limit to damage types! No limit to Absorb Elements or Protection from Energy! No limit to what spell it is applied to! IT'S FREAKING BROKEN!!!
It needs to be limited, and have other restrictions to keep it from being abused a ton.
We disagree on how big of an impact it would be. it makes me roll my eyes the way they have it implemented, but I wouldn't feel like I had to account for this if I was DMing for it either.
The impact will often be nothing if used incorrectly. The impact if used strategically can be game breaking in key circumstances.
That's where I disagree. I don't think it will ever be game breaking.
It's heavily exploitable. A ton of creatures have vulnerabilities, resistances, or immunities. You can no switch damage to any type other than the one that wouldn't work well, or even better, switch it to their vulnerable damage type.
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A Bag of Holding that you can only access once per day is not as useful as an actual Bag of Holding which is only an uncommon magic item.
It provides shelter for a short rest but only for yourself until level 10, and again only once per day.
This is a very useful ability, but I really don't think it is game breaking
This^
That's exactly how I feel about this ability. Useful, not crazy, though.
Just cannot wait till a Warlock PC has a bag of holding hops in for a rest lol
It is not a Bag of Holding, Portable Hole or Handy Haversack so it should not cause any issues. If anything it is more comparable to a Magnificent Mansion.
Yes, but you can store things inside of it. You can transport exponentially more items inside of it, even if you can only access it once a day.
The issue is it worded in the UA as an Extra-Dimensional Space and putting one in another means rip and then a trip to the Astral Plane.
A Bag of Holding that you can only access once per day is not as useful as an actual Bag of Holding which is only an uncommon magic item.
It provides shelter for a short rest but only for yourself until level 10, and again only once per day.
This is a very useful ability, but I really don't think it is game breaking
This^
That's exactly how I feel about this ability. Useful, not crazy, though.
Just cannot wait till a Warlock PC has a bag of holding hops in for a rest lol
It is not a Bag of Holding, Portable Hole or Handy Haversack so it should not cause any issues. If anything it is more comparable to a Magnificent Mansion.
Yes, but you can store things inside of it. You can transport exponentially more items inside of it, even if you can only access it once a day.
The issue is it worded in the UA as an Extra-Dimensional Space and putting one in another means rip and then a trip to the Astral Plane.
No, bags of holding list the objects it rips inside.
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A Bag of Holding that you can only access once per day is not as useful as an actual Bag of Holding which is only an uncommon magic item.
It provides shelter for a short rest but only for yourself until level 10, and again only once per day.
This is a very useful ability, but I really don't think it is game breaking
This^
That's exactly how I feel about this ability. Useful, not crazy, though.
Just cannot wait till a Warlock PC has a bag of holding hops in for a rest lol
It is not a Bag of Holding, Portable Hole or Handy Haversack so it should not cause any issues. If anything it is more comparable to a Magnificent Mansion.
Yes, but you can store things inside of it. You can transport exponentially more items inside of it, even if you can only access it once a day.
The issue is it worded in the UA as an Extra-Dimensional Space and putting one in another means rip and then a trip to the Astral Plane.
No, bags of holding list the objects it rips inside.
Placing a bag of holding inside an extradimensional space created by a handy haversack, portable hole, or similar item instantly destroys both items and opens a gate to the Astral Plane. The gate originates where the one item was placed inside the other. Any creature within 10 feet of the gate is sucked through it to a random location on the Astral Plane. The gate then closes. The gate is one-way only and can't be reopened.
No, bags of holding list the objects it rips inside.
“Placing a bag of holding inside an extradimensional space created by a handy haversack, portable hole, or similar item instantly destroys both items and opens a gate to the Astral Plane.”
The way it is worded, it is an item, and similar to a portable hole. I don’t like that, and would change it, though.
I'm out. There is nothing I can say that will convince you to approach this as an actual session by session subclass, only a magical christmasland where everything is a pokemon.
And you sure as hell aren't convincing me that damage type, with FEW exceptions, isn't something that pops up only once or twice every session if at all.
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Damage switching is 100% not OP. This version of it? Yes! Unlimited damage switching to any damage type of any spell written in your spellbook! No action economy loss. No limit to damage types! No limit to Absorb Elements or Protection from Energy! No limit to what spell it is applied to! IT'S FREAKING BROKEN!!!
It needs to be limited, and have other restrictions to keep it from being abused a ton.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I agree 100% with this post.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
But it's a slippery slope to say "the Evoker did it, so it doesn't matter if any other wizard subclass does it!"
That's not true. The evoker's ability is reasonable. It's limited to only evocation spells, it is a minor buff in the sense that you're not killing your party members on accident, and that it is limited to the amount of creatures it it effective on.
This ability has no such limitations.
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I was upset that the Wizard didn't get more from the Class Feature Variants UA. Letting them use their spellbook as a spellcasting focus, be better at scribing scrolls, and et cetera would make great features that aren't overall class boosts, but nice small perks that the wizard needs, IMO.
It's much easier to adapt a playtest subclass to the power-level of the other subclasses than to redesign all of the past subclasses to fit with this subclass's power level. That would be absolutely idiotic. Just reduce this subclass's power, take a few of the features that should be given to all wizards and put them in the Class Feature Variants, choose what you actually want this subclass to be like, and then you're done.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
It'd have to be a cooler name than College of Names, but yeah. A College of Honor, College of Stature, College of Fame, College of Renown, College of Repute, or a College of Eminence. All of those names could work for a "College of True Naming".
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
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We disagree on how big of an impact it would be. it makes me roll my eyes the way they have it implemented, but I wouldn't feel like I had to account for this if I was DMing for it either.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
The impact will often be nothing if used incorrectly. The impact if used strategically can be game breaking in key circumstances.
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Just cannot wait till a Warlock PC has a bag of holding hops in for a rest lol
Artificers can replicate a bag of holding at level 2. Also, this could be a convenient way of storing all of your bags of holding if you have multiple and they're too heavy.
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Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
That's where I disagree. I don't think it will ever be game breaking.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
It is not a Bag of Holding, Portable Hole or Handy Haversack so it should not cause any issues. If anything it is more comparable to a Magnificent Mansion.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Yes, but you can store things inside of it. You can transport exponentially more items inside of it, even if you can only access it once a day.
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Have a few minutes between games.
At Level 5 neither the Scribe nor Phantom features have had any real effect on the game we played. This was kind of what I expected however. The game that starts in about 30 minutes will be the same characters at level 10.
I will let you know what changes if anything.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
It's heavily exploitable. A ton of creatures have vulnerabilities, resistances, or immunities. You can no switch damage to any type other than the one that wouldn't work well, or even better, switch it to their vulnerable damage type.
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The issue is it worded in the UA as an Extra-Dimensional Space and putting one in another means rip and then a trip to the Astral Plane.
EDIT:
Same thing happens with the spell Rope Trick
No, bags of holding list the objects it rips inside.
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Placing a bag of holding inside an extradimensional space created by a handy haversack, portable hole, or similar item instantly destroys both items and opens a gate to the Astral Plane. The gate originates where the one item was placed inside the other. Any creature within 10 feet of the gate is sucked through it to a random location on the Astral Plane. The gate then closes. The gate is one-way only and can't be reopened.
“Placing a bag of holding inside an extradimensional space created by a handy haversack, portable hole, or similar item instantly destroys both items and opens a gate to the Astral Plane.”
The way it is worded, it is an item, and similar to a portable hole. I don’t like that, and would change it, though.
It is not unbalanced. Stop overrating things.
Get over yourselves.
I'm out. There is nothing I can say that will convince you to approach this as an actual session by session subclass, only a magical christmasland where everything is a pokemon.
And you sure as hell aren't convincing me that damage type, with FEW exceptions, isn't something that pops up only once or twice every session if at all.