Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Okay, now in seriousness, I think one thing we should remember for this conversation is that the damage-switching metamagic from the class feature variants is not official, it's just UA. I think it's a mistake to use that as a basis for judging other UA when the reality is it might disappear and never become official.
A wizard subclass letting them use one of the sorcerer's metamagics for free?
God, who would ever
EVOCATION WIZARD?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!
do such a thing?
To be fair, Sculpt Spells only works on evocation spells (so it doesn't work with Hypnotic Pattern, Cloudkill, Synaptic Static, Circle of Death, etc). Careful Spell works on any spell that causes other creatures to make a saving throw. That said, I would have definitely liked Careful Spell to do what Sculpt Spells does, but for any spell it's used on.
Scribe pre level 10 is the best wizard subclass that has ever been in a UA.
That's kind of the crux of it. It's a wizard subclass that's basically the best most wizardy wizard. Why then even have other wizards?
Other wizard subclasses require some specialization to benefit from their subclass features. Scribe doesn't.
It can copy wizard spells faster and cheaper without restriction to school making it have a larger arsenal of spells to choose from. In addition it doesn't need to bother considering type damage when preparing spells meaning it doesn't need as many spells as other wizards do and can benefit from non-ritual spells without even preparing them. It can benefit from those spells even if it lacks the material components necessary to cast them (such as with Chromatic Orb's 50 gp diamond requirement).
Other wizard subclasses prepare spells for day to day situations. The Scribe writes scrolls so it's nearly always prepared for every situation.
It can create spell scrolls (of any rarity) faster and cheaper than other wizards meaning there are fewer niche spells it ever has to consider preparing, instead of thinking ahead about the party's plans and preparing feather fall just in case... write a few scrolls and never bother thinking about it again. It has whatever it needs in terms of spells more or less always.
It can easily gain more spells than average, needs fewer spells than other wizards, spends fewer spell slots on niche non-ritual spells via scrolls, gets an extra prepared spell per day without the cost of a spell slot, and can fast track rituals once per day.
A lot of these features would have been less powerful on other spellcasting classes. Such as the bard, sorceror, or warlock, or even the Artificer. Putting them on a wizard is too much. In it's current form it's bonkers overpowered.
Okay, now in seriousness, I think one thing we should remember for this conversation is that the damage-switching metamagic from the class feature variants is not official, it's just UA. I think it's a mistake to use that as a basis for judgement other UA when the reality is it might disappear and never become official.
My personal opinion on this is that damage switching is strong, but not overpowered. That said, I feel that damage switching should be a part of sorcerers, not of wizards. Wizards already live a pretty good life. I'm hesitant to give them more mechanically.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Scribe pre level 10 is the best wizard subclass that has ever been in a UA.
That's kind of the crux of it. It's a wizard subclass that's basically the best most wizardy wizard. Why then even have other wizards?
Other wizard subclasses require some specialization to benefit from their subclass features. Scribe doesn't.
It can copy wizard spells faster and cheaper without restriction to school making it have a larger arsenal of spells to choose from. In addition it doesn't need to bother considering type damage when preparing spells meaning it doesn't need as many spells as other wizards do and can benefit from non-ritual spells without even preparing them. It can benefit from those spells even if it lacks the material components necessary to cast them (such as with Chromatic Orb's 50 gp diamond requirement).
Other wizard subclasses prepare spells for day to day situations. The Scribe writes scrolls so it's nearly always prepared for every situation.
It can create spell scrolls (of any rarity) faster and cheaper than other wizards meaning there are fewer niche spells it ever has to consider preparing, instead of thinking ahead about the party's plans and preparing feather fall just in case... write a few scrolls and never bother thinking about it again. It has whatever it needs in terms of spells more or less always.
It can easily gain more spells than average, needs fewer spells than other wizards, spends fewer spell slots on niche non-ritual spells via scrolls, gets an extra prepared spell per day without the cost of a spell slot, and can fast track rituals once per day.
A lot of these features would have been less powerful on other spellcasting classes. Such as the bard, sorceror, or warlock, or even the Artificer. Putting them on a wizard is too much. In it's current form it's bonkers overpowered.
I get what you're saying, but another way of looking at it is that this makes the pre-existing subclasses feel almost lacking.
Maybe the cost of jotting down spells in your book shouldn't have been so expensive to begin with. Maybe the Wizard should have always been able to scribe scrolls with ease to begin with, or at least scribe those in your school with ease for the school subclasses. Maybe the Wizard should have had a magic quill to go along with their spellbook. Maybe the Wizard should have always had the option of using the book as a focus past a certain point.
The Wizard is relatively barebones in its class and subclass features to make up for its spell selection, but maybe that wasn't the right way to go about balancing the class.
A wizard subclass letting them use one of the sorcerer's metamagics for free?
God, who would ever
EVOCATION WIZARD?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!
do such a thing?
Yeah, but the Evocation wizard's main ability is actually balanced. This one isn't. This one is largely based on dealing more damage in certain circumstances, while the Evoker's ability is to prevent damage that they'd deal to allies. There's really no reason to compare the two other than the fact sorcerers can use metamagic to do these certain things.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Maybe I should phrase it like this.... If you are designing a Wizard subclass for general release, try to stick to the model of school or school-mixing because those themes lead to really rich and interesting character models. If you are going to deviate from that design path, please have a great campaign setting that is going to influence your design (Dunamancy and Bladesinging) because you can use that to come up with great features. In general, deviating from that design path doesn't seem to lead to very good results (Onomancy, Scribe) because the features don't come naturally.
To the base Wizard thing, I think that this comes down to a lack of good crafting (magic or not) rules in 5e. I think many players would explore making scrolls, magic items, armor, weapons etc.. its just not all that clear (or worth it) unless the DM figures it out for them. Whether that should be a "feature" in the Wizard or not isn't something I've thought about though.
Wizards are magic scholars, and spells are what they produce from their efforts. If any class outside the Artificer should be capable of making spell scrolls and making them efficiently, it's the Wizard. The only exception, as far as Wizards go, should be scrolls of divine and nature spells, which is the domain of Clerics and Druids.
The realm of the Artificer should be all magic items, IMHO.
As for Onomancy, the main issue I had with that is true name magic is very niche in the game unless you're dealing with fiends and other outsider creatures where names really matter, and even then the subclass gates that with a saving throw that these creatures are notoriously proficient at. My guess is that the next time we see onomancy, it might be a part of a subclass that focuses on working with fiends and such.
True name magic doesn't have to be restricted to Fiends. I could imagine it being a key part of Celestials, Modrons, and Slaad as well. Also, just the fact that it effects the outsider creatures more doesn't mean that it shouldn't effect humanoids as well.
Also, I am 90% sure that the next time we see an onomancer, it will be a Bard subclass.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
I get what you're saying, but another way of looking at it is that this makes the pre-existing subclasses feel almost lacking.
Maybe the cost of jotting down spells in your book shouldn't have been so expensive to begin with. Maybe the Wizard should have always been able to scribe scrolls with ease to begin with, or at least scribe those in your school with ease for the school subclasses. Maybe the Wizard should have had a magic quill to go along with their spellbook. Maybe the Wizard should have always had the option of using the book as a focus past a certain point.
In that case the solution isn't a subclass but a redesign of the base class or some other released class feature variant options, and then replace the features of the Scribe with different ones since some of those features would suddenly become meaningless.
Honestly, I agree that the Wizard should have always been able to use their spell book as an arcane focus, that just makes sense.
A wizard subclass letting them use one of the sorcerer's metamagics for free?
God, who would ever
EVOCATION WIZARD?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!
do such a thing?
Yeah, but the Evocation wizard's main ability is actually balanced. This one isn't. This one is largely based on dealing more damage in certain circumstances, while the Evoker's ability is to prevent damage that they'd deal to allies. There's really no reason to compare the two other than the fact sorcerers can use metamagic to do these certain things.
I believe his point is that a Wizard subclass stepping on the toes of the Sorcerer class isn't unprecedented, but that doesn't stop people from using that as an argument. The same thing happened with the Onomancer and its true name "metamagic".
Okay, now in seriousness, I think one thing we should remember for this conversation is that the damage-switching metamagic from the class feature variants is not official, it's just UA. I think it's a mistake to use that as a basis for judging other UA when the reality is it might disappear and never become official.
That feature from that UA was so popular I would bet on the fact of it appearing in whatever book that the Class Feature Variants UA appears in, (Probably Xanathar's 2.0/Planescape).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Okay, now in seriousness, I think one thing we should remember for this conversation is that the damage-switching metamagic from the class feature variants is not official, it's just UA. I think it's a mistake to use that as a basis for judgement other UA when the reality is it might disappear and never become official.
My personal opinion on this is that damage switching is strong, but not overpowered. That said, I feel that damage switching should be a part of sorcerers, not of wizards. Wizards already live a pretty good life. I'm hesitant to give them more mechanically.
Damage switching is 100% not OP. This version of it? Yes! Unlimited damage switching to any damage type of any spell written in your spellbook! No action economy loss. No limit to damage types! No limit to Absorb Elements or Protection from Energy! No limit to what spell it is applied to! IT'S FREAKING BROKEN!!!
It needs to be limited, and have other restrictions to keep it from being abused a ton.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Scribe pre level 10 is the best wizard subclass that has ever been in a UA.
That's kind of the crux of it. It's a wizard subclass that's basically the best most wizardy wizard. Why then even have other wizards?
Other wizard subclasses require some specialization to benefit from their subclass features. Scribe doesn't.
It can copy wizard spells faster and cheaper without restriction to school making it have a larger arsenal of spells to choose from. In addition it doesn't need to bother considering type damage when preparing spells meaning it doesn't need as many spells as other wizards do and can benefit from non-ritual spells without even preparing them. It can benefit from those spells even if it lacks the material components necessary to cast them (such as with Chromatic Orb's 50 gp diamond requirement).
Other wizard subclasses prepare spells for day to day situations. The Scribe writes scrolls so it's nearly always prepared for every situation.
It can create spell scrolls (of any rarity) faster and cheaper than other wizards meaning there are fewer niche spells it ever has to consider preparing, instead of thinking ahead about the party's plans and preparing feather fall just in case... write a few scrolls and never bother thinking about it again. It has whatever it needs in terms of spells more or less always.
It can easily gain more spells than average, needs fewer spells than other wizards, spends fewer spell slots on niche non-ritual spells via scrolls, gets an extra prepared spell per day without the cost of a spell slot, and can fast track rituals once per day.
A lot of these features would have been less powerful on other spellcasting classes. Such as the bard, sorceror, or warlock, or even the Artificer. Putting them on a wizard is too much. In it's current form it's bonkers overpowered.
I agree 100% with this post.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
True name magic doesn't have to be restricted to Fiends. I could imagine it being a key part of Celestials, Modrons, and Slaad as well. Also, just the fact that it effects the outsider creatures more doesn't mean that it shouldn't effect humanoids as well.
Also, I am 90% sure that the next time we see an onomancer, it will be a Bard subclass.
College of Names? And I know it doesn't have to be restricted to extraplanar creatures, but at present, that's where it shows up in the game barring homebrew.
A wizard subclass letting them use one of the sorcerer's metamagics for free?
God, who would ever
EVOCATION WIZARD?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!
do such a thing?
Yeah, but the Evocation wizard's main ability is actually balanced. This one isn't. This one is largely based on dealing more damage in certain circumstances, while the Evoker's ability is to prevent damage that they'd deal to allies. There's really no reason to compare the two other than the fact sorcerers can use metamagic to do these certain things.
I believe his point is that a Wizard subclass stepping on the toes of the Sorcerer class isn't unprecedented, but that doesn't stop people from using that as an argument. The same thing happened with the Onomancer and its true name "metamagic".
But it's a slippery slope to say "the Evoker did it, so it doesn't matter if any other wizard subclass does it!"
That's not true. The evoker's ability is reasonable. It's limited to only evocation spells, it is a minor buff in the sense that you're not killing your party members on accident, and that it is limited to the amount of creatures it it effective on.
This ability has no such limitations.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
I get what you're saying, but another way of looking at it is that this makes the pre-existing subclasses feel almost lacking.
Maybe the cost of jotting down spells in your book shouldn't have been so expensive to begin with. Maybe the Wizard should have always been able to scribe scrolls with ease to begin with, or at least scribe those in your school with ease for the school subclasses. Maybe the Wizard should have had a magic quill to go along with their spellbook. Maybe the Wizard should have always had the option of using the book as a focus past a certain point.
In that case the solution isn't a subclass but a redesign of the base class or some other released class feature variant options, and then replace the features of the Scribe with different ones since some of those features would suddenly become meaningless.
Honestly, I agree that the Wizard should have always been able to use their spell book as an arcane focus, that just makes sense.
I was upset that the Wizard didn't get more from the Class Feature Variants UA. Letting them use their spellbook as a spellcasting focus, be better at scribing scrolls, and et cetera would make great features that aren't overall class boosts, but nice small perks that the wizard needs, IMO.
It's much easier to adapt a playtest subclass to the power-level of the other subclasses than to redesign all of the past subclasses to fit with this subclass's power level. That would be absolutely idiotic. Just reduce this subclass's power, take a few of the features that should be given to all wizards and put them in the Class Feature Variants, choose what you actually want this subclass to be like, and then you're done.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
True name magic doesn't have to be restricted to Fiends. I could imagine it being a key part of Celestials, Modrons, and Slaad as well. Also, just the fact that it effects the outsider creatures more doesn't mean that it shouldn't effect humanoids as well.
Also, I am 90% sure that the next time we see an onomancer, it will be a Bard subclass.
College of Names? And I know it doesn't have to be restricted to extraplanar creatures, but at present, that's where it shows up in the game barring homebrew.
It'd have to be a cooler name than College of Names, but yeah. A College of Honor, College of Stature, College of Fame, College of Renown, College of Repute, or a College of Eminence. All of those names could work for a "College of True Naming".
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Scribe pre level 10 is the best wizard subclass that has ever been in a UA.
Why, it's a regional variation of the time-honored children's game Gem-Dragon-Knight!
fail post.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Okay, now in seriousness, I think one thing we should remember for this conversation is that the damage-switching metamagic from the class feature variants is not official, it's just UA. I think it's a mistake to use that as a basis for judging other UA when the reality is it might disappear and never become official.
To be fair, Sculpt Spells only works on evocation spells (so it doesn't work with Hypnotic Pattern, Cloudkill, Synaptic Static, Circle of Death, etc). Careful Spell works on any spell that causes other creatures to make a saving throw. That said, I would have definitely liked Careful Spell to do what Sculpt Spells does, but for any spell it's used on.
That's kind of the crux of it. It's a wizard subclass that's basically the best most wizardy wizard. Why then even have other wizards?
Other wizard subclasses require some specialization to benefit from their subclass features. Scribe doesn't.
It can copy wizard spells faster and cheaper without restriction to school making it have a larger arsenal of spells to choose from. In addition it doesn't need to bother considering type damage when preparing spells meaning it doesn't need as many spells as other wizards do and can benefit from non-ritual spells without even preparing them. It can benefit from those spells even if it lacks the material components necessary to cast them (such as with Chromatic Orb's 50 gp diamond requirement).
Other wizard subclasses prepare spells for day to day situations. The Scribe writes scrolls so it's nearly always prepared for every situation.
It can create spell scrolls (of any rarity) faster and cheaper than other wizards meaning there are fewer niche spells it ever has to consider preparing, instead of thinking ahead about the party's plans and preparing feather fall just in case... write a few scrolls and never bother thinking about it again. It has whatever it needs in terms of spells more or less always.
It can easily gain more spells than average, needs fewer spells than other wizards, spends fewer spell slots on niche non-ritual spells via scrolls, gets an extra prepared spell per day without the cost of a spell slot, and can fast track rituals once per day.
A lot of these features would have been less powerful on other spellcasting classes. Such as the bard, sorceror, or warlock, or even the Artificer.
Putting them on a wizard is too much. In it's current form it's bonkers overpowered.
My personal opinion on this is that damage switching is strong, but not overpowered. That said, I feel that damage switching should be a part of sorcerers, not of wizards. Wizards already live a pretty good life. I'm hesitant to give them more mechanically.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I get what you're saying, but another way of looking at it is that this makes the pre-existing subclasses feel almost lacking.
Maybe the cost of jotting down spells in your book shouldn't have been so expensive to begin with. Maybe the Wizard should have always been able to scribe scrolls with ease to begin with, or at least scribe those in your school with ease for the school subclasses. Maybe the Wizard should have had a magic quill to go along with their spellbook. Maybe the Wizard should have always had the option of using the book as a focus past a certain point.
The Wizard is relatively barebones in its class and subclass features to make up for its spell selection, but maybe that wasn't the right way to go about balancing the class.
Yeah, but the Evocation wizard's main ability is actually balanced. This one isn't. This one is largely based on dealing more damage in certain circumstances, while the Evoker's ability is to prevent damage that they'd deal to allies. There's really no reason to compare the two other than the fact sorcerers can use metamagic to do these certain things.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
The realm of the Artificer should be all magic items, IMHO.
True name magic doesn't have to be restricted to Fiends. I could imagine it being a key part of Celestials, Modrons, and Slaad as well. Also, just the fact that it effects the outsider creatures more doesn't mean that it shouldn't effect humanoids as well.
Also, I am 90% sure that the next time we see an onomancer, it will be a Bard subclass.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
In that case the solution isn't a subclass but a redesign of the base class or some other released class feature variant options, and then replace the features of the Scribe with different ones since some of those features would suddenly become meaningless.
Honestly, I agree that the Wizard should have always been able to use their spell book as an arcane focus, that just makes sense.
I believe his point is that a Wizard subclass stepping on the toes of the Sorcerer class isn't unprecedented, but that doesn't stop people from using that as an argument. The same thing happened with the Onomancer and its true name "metamagic".
Correction: It's the most broken wizard subclass that's ever been in a UA.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
That feature from that UA was so popular I would bet on the fact of it appearing in whatever book that the Class Feature Variants UA appears in, (Probably Xanathar's 2.0/Planescape).
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Damage switching is 100% not OP. This version of it? Yes! Unlimited damage switching to any damage type of any spell written in your spellbook! No action economy loss. No limit to damage types! No limit to Absorb Elements or Protection from Energy! No limit to what spell it is applied to! IT'S FREAKING BROKEN!!!
It needs to be limited, and have other restrictions to keep it from being abused a ton.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I agree 100% with this post.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
College of Names? And I know it doesn't have to be restricted to extraplanar creatures, but at present, that's where it shows up in the game barring homebrew.
But it's a slippery slope to say "the Evoker did it, so it doesn't matter if any other wizard subclass does it!"
That's not true. The evoker's ability is reasonable. It's limited to only evocation spells, it is a minor buff in the sense that you're not killing your party members on accident, and that it is limited to the amount of creatures it it effective on.
This ability has no such limitations.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I was upset that the Wizard didn't get more from the Class Feature Variants UA. Letting them use their spellbook as a spellcasting focus, be better at scribing scrolls, and et cetera would make great features that aren't overall class boosts, but nice small perks that the wizard needs, IMO.
It's much easier to adapt a playtest subclass to the power-level of the other subclasses than to redesign all of the past subclasses to fit with this subclass's power level. That would be absolutely idiotic. Just reduce this subclass's power, take a few of the features that should be given to all wizards and put them in the Class Feature Variants, choose what you actually want this subclass to be like, and then you're done.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
It'd have to be a cooler name than College of Names, but yeah. A College of Honor, College of Stature, College of Fame, College of Renown, College of Repute, or a College of Eminence. All of those names could work for a "College of True Naming".
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms