Okay, now in seriousness, I think one thing we should remember for this conversation is that the damage-switching metamagic from the class feature variants is not official, it's just UA. I think it's a mistake to use that as a basis for judgement other UA when the reality is it might disappear and never become official.
My personal opinion on this is that damage switching is strong, but not overpowered. That said, I feel that damage switching should be a part of sorcerers, not of wizards. Wizards already live a pretty good life. I'm hesitant to give them more mechanically.
Damage switching is 100% not OP. This version of it? Yes! Unlimited damage switching to any damage type of any spell written in your spellbook! No action economy loss. No limit to damage types! No limit to Absorb Elements or Protection from Energy! No limit to what spell it is applied to! IT'S FREAKING BROKEN!!!
It needs to be limited, and have other restrictions to keep it from being abused a ton.
We disagree on how big of an impact it would be. it makes me roll my eyes the way they have it implemented, but I wouldn't feel like I had to account for this if I was DMing for it either.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Okay, now in seriousness, I think one thing we should remember for this conversation is that the damage-switching metamagic from the class feature variants is not official, it's just UA. I think it's a mistake to use that as a basis for judgement other UA when the reality is it might disappear and never become official.
My personal opinion on this is that damage switching is strong, but not overpowered. That said, I feel that damage switching should be a part of sorcerers, not of wizards. Wizards already live a pretty good life. I'm hesitant to give them more mechanically.
Damage switching is 100% not OP. This version of it? Yes! Unlimited damage switching to any damage type of any spell written in your spellbook! No action economy loss. No limit to damage types! No limit to Absorb Elements or Protection from Energy! No limit to what spell it is applied to! IT'S FREAKING BROKEN!!!
It needs to be limited, and have other restrictions to keep it from being abused a ton.
We disagree on how big of an impact it would be. it makes me roll my eyes the way they have it implemented, but I wouldn't feel like I had to account for this if I was DMing for it either.
The impact will often be nothing if used incorrectly. The impact if used strategically can be game breaking in key circumstances.
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A Bag of Holding that you can only access once per day is not as useful as an actual Bag of Holding which is only an uncommon magic item.
It provides shelter for a short rest but only for yourself until level 10, and again only once per day.
This is a very useful ability, but I really don't think it is game breaking
This^
That's exactly how I feel about this ability. Useful, not crazy, though.
Just cannot wait till a Warlock PC has a bag of holding hops in for a rest lol
Artificers can replicate a bag of holding at level 2. Also, this could be a convenient way of storing all of your bags of holding if you have multiple and they're too heavy.
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Okay, now in seriousness, I think one thing we should remember for this conversation is that the damage-switching metamagic from the class feature variants is not official, it's just UA. I think it's a mistake to use that as a basis for judgement other UA when the reality is it might disappear and never become official.
My personal opinion on this is that damage switching is strong, but not overpowered. That said, I feel that damage switching should be a part of sorcerers, not of wizards. Wizards already live a pretty good life. I'm hesitant to give them more mechanically.
Damage switching is 100% not OP. This version of it? Yes! Unlimited damage switching to any damage type of any spell written in your spellbook! No action economy loss. No limit to damage types! No limit to Absorb Elements or Protection from Energy! No limit to what spell it is applied to! IT'S FREAKING BROKEN!!!
It needs to be limited, and have other restrictions to keep it from being abused a ton.
We disagree on how big of an impact it would be. it makes me roll my eyes the way they have it implemented, but I wouldn't feel like I had to account for this if I was DMing for it either.
The impact will often be nothing if used incorrectly. The impact if used strategically can be game breaking in key circumstances.
That's where I disagree. I don't think it will ever be game breaking.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
A Bag of Holding that you can only access once per day is not as useful as an actual Bag of Holding which is only an uncommon magic item.
It provides shelter for a short rest but only for yourself until level 10, and again only once per day.
This is a very useful ability, but I really don't think it is game breaking
This^
That's exactly how I feel about this ability. Useful, not crazy, though.
Just cannot wait till a Warlock PC has a bag of holding hops in for a rest lol
It is not a Bag of Holding, Portable Hole or Handy Haversack so it should not cause any issues. If anything it is more comparable to a Magnificent Mansion.
A Bag of Holding that you can only access once per day is not as useful as an actual Bag of Holding which is only an uncommon magic item.
It provides shelter for a short rest but only for yourself until level 10, and again only once per day.
This is a very useful ability, but I really don't think it is game breaking
This^
That's exactly how I feel about this ability. Useful, not crazy, though.
Just cannot wait till a Warlock PC has a bag of holding hops in for a rest lol
It is not a Bag of Holding, Portable Hole or Handy Haversack so it should not cause any issues. If anything it is more comparable to a Magnificent Mansion.
Yes, but you can store things inside of it. You can transport exponentially more items inside of it, even if you can only access it once a day.
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At Level 5 neither the Scribe nor Phantom features have had any real effect on the game we played. This was kind of what I expected however. The game that starts in about 30 minutes will be the same characters at level 10.
Okay, now in seriousness, I think one thing we should remember for this conversation is that the damage-switching metamagic from the class feature variants is not official, it's just UA. I think it's a mistake to use that as a basis for judgement other UA when the reality is it might disappear and never become official.
My personal opinion on this is that damage switching is strong, but not overpowered. That said, I feel that damage switching should be a part of sorcerers, not of wizards. Wizards already live a pretty good life. I'm hesitant to give them more mechanically.
Damage switching is 100% not OP. This version of it? Yes! Unlimited damage switching to any damage type of any spell written in your spellbook! No action economy loss. No limit to damage types! No limit to Absorb Elements or Protection from Energy! No limit to what spell it is applied to! IT'S FREAKING BROKEN!!!
It needs to be limited, and have other restrictions to keep it from being abused a ton.
We disagree on how big of an impact it would be. it makes me roll my eyes the way they have it implemented, but I wouldn't feel like I had to account for this if I was DMing for it either.
The impact will often be nothing if used incorrectly. The impact if used strategically can be game breaking in key circumstances.
That's where I disagree. I don't think it will ever be game breaking.
It's heavily exploitable. A ton of creatures have vulnerabilities, resistances, or immunities. You can no switch damage to any type other than the one that wouldn't work well, or even better, switch it to their vulnerable damage type.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
A Bag of Holding that you can only access once per day is not as useful as an actual Bag of Holding which is only an uncommon magic item.
It provides shelter for a short rest but only for yourself until level 10, and again only once per day.
This is a very useful ability, but I really don't think it is game breaking
This^
That's exactly how I feel about this ability. Useful, not crazy, though.
Just cannot wait till a Warlock PC has a bag of holding hops in for a rest lol
It is not a Bag of Holding, Portable Hole or Handy Haversack so it should not cause any issues. If anything it is more comparable to a Magnificent Mansion.
Yes, but you can store things inside of it. You can transport exponentially more items inside of it, even if you can only access it once a day.
The issue is it worded in the UA as an Extra-Dimensional Space and putting one in another means rip and then a trip to the Astral Plane.
A Bag of Holding that you can only access once per day is not as useful as an actual Bag of Holding which is only an uncommon magic item.
It provides shelter for a short rest but only for yourself until level 10, and again only once per day.
This is a very useful ability, but I really don't think it is game breaking
This^
That's exactly how I feel about this ability. Useful, not crazy, though.
Just cannot wait till a Warlock PC has a bag of holding hops in for a rest lol
It is not a Bag of Holding, Portable Hole or Handy Haversack so it should not cause any issues. If anything it is more comparable to a Magnificent Mansion.
Yes, but you can store things inside of it. You can transport exponentially more items inside of it, even if you can only access it once a day.
The issue is it worded in the UA as an Extra-Dimensional Space and putting one in another means rip and then a trip to the Astral Plane.
No, bags of holding list the objects it rips inside.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
A Bag of Holding that you can only access once per day is not as useful as an actual Bag of Holding which is only an uncommon magic item.
It provides shelter for a short rest but only for yourself until level 10, and again only once per day.
This is a very useful ability, but I really don't think it is game breaking
This^
That's exactly how I feel about this ability. Useful, not crazy, though.
Just cannot wait till a Warlock PC has a bag of holding hops in for a rest lol
It is not a Bag of Holding, Portable Hole or Handy Haversack so it should not cause any issues. If anything it is more comparable to a Magnificent Mansion.
Yes, but you can store things inside of it. You can transport exponentially more items inside of it, even if you can only access it once a day.
The issue is it worded in the UA as an Extra-Dimensional Space and putting one in another means rip and then a trip to the Astral Plane.
No, bags of holding list the objects it rips inside.
Placing a bag of holding inside an extradimensional space created by a handy haversack, portable hole, or similar item instantly destroys both items and opens a gate to the Astral Plane. The gate originates where the one item was placed inside the other. Any creature within 10 feet of the gate is sucked through it to a random location on the Astral Plane. The gate then closes. The gate is one-way only and can't be reopened.
No, bags of holding list the objects it rips inside.
“Placing a bag of holding inside an extradimensional space created by a handy haversack, portable hole, or similar item instantly destroys both items and opens a gate to the Astral Plane.”
The way it is worded, it is an item, and similar to a portable hole. I don’t like that, and would change it, though.
I'm out. There is nothing I can say that will convince you to approach this as an actual session by session subclass, only a magical christmasland where everything is a pokemon.
And you sure as hell aren't convincing me that damage type, with FEW exceptions, isn't something that pops up only once or twice every session if at all.
*Except for it applying to resistance and immunity spells like absorb elements that shit IS broken but can easily be changed as "a spell that deals damage not triggered from an outside source"
And you sure as hell aren't convincing me that damage type, with FEW exceptions, isn't something that pops up only once or twice every session if at all.
Scribe pre level 10 is the best wizard subclass that has ever been in a UA.
That's kind of the crux of it. It's a wizard subclass that's basically the best most wizardy wizard. Why then even have other wizards?
Other wizard subclasses require some specialization to benefit from their subclass features. Scribe doesn't.
It can copy wizard spells faster and cheaper without restriction to school making it have a larger arsenal of spells to choose from. In addition it doesn't need to bother considering type damage when preparing spells meaning it doesn't need as many spells as other wizards do and can benefit from non-ritual spells without even preparing them. It can benefit from those spells even if it lacks the material components necessary to cast them (such as with Chromatic Orb's 50 gp diamond requirement).
Other wizard subclasses prepare spells for day to day situations. The Scribe writes scrolls so it's nearly always prepared for every situation.
It can create spell scrolls (of any rarity) faster and cheaper than other wizards meaning there are fewer niche spells it ever has to consider preparing, instead of thinking ahead about the party's plans and preparing feather fall just in case... write a few scrolls and never bother thinking about it again. It has whatever it needs in terms of spells more or less always.
It can easily gain more spells than average, needs fewer spells than other wizards, spends fewer spell slots on niche non-ritual spells via scrolls, gets an extra prepared spell per day without the cost of a spell slot, and can fast track rituals once per day.
A lot of these features would have been less powerful on other spellcasting classes. Such as the bard, sorceror, or warlock, or even the Artificer. Putting them on a wizard is too much. In it's current form it's bonkers overpowered.
I have to agree, a lot of features from this subclass feel like they belong as part of the base Wizard class. The problem is that it would require a complete redesign of the Wizard class to really implement it, which is going to be out of the question until 6e. And we all know that 6e is still a really long way out from now.
A wizard subclass letting them use one of the sorcerer's metamagics for free?
God, who would ever
EVOCATION WIZARD?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!
do such a thing?
The evocation sculpt spell is similar for sure but it is actually worse than careful spell since its limited to evocation spells only
The UA damage swap for sorcerers is limited to elemental damage only and costs a point to use, the wizard version is any damage and is free. It's a direct upgrade
And as has been said just because it has happened in the past does not mean it should continue to happen in future releases
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We disagree on how big of an impact it would be. it makes me roll my eyes the way they have it implemented, but I wouldn't feel like I had to account for this if I was DMing for it either.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
The impact will often be nothing if used incorrectly. The impact if used strategically can be game breaking in key circumstances.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Just cannot wait till a Warlock PC has a bag of holding hops in for a rest lol
Artificers can replicate a bag of holding at level 2. Also, this could be a convenient way of storing all of your bags of holding if you have multiple and they're too heavy.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
That's where I disagree. I don't think it will ever be game breaking.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
It is not a Bag of Holding, Portable Hole or Handy Haversack so it should not cause any issues. If anything it is more comparable to a Magnificent Mansion.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Yes, but you can store things inside of it. You can transport exponentially more items inside of it, even if you can only access it once a day.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Have a few minutes between games.
At Level 5 neither the Scribe nor Phantom features have had any real effect on the game we played. This was kind of what I expected however. The game that starts in about 30 minutes will be the same characters at level 10.
I will let you know what changes if anything.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
It's heavily exploitable. A ton of creatures have vulnerabilities, resistances, or immunities. You can no switch damage to any type other than the one that wouldn't work well, or even better, switch it to their vulnerable damage type.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
The issue is it worded in the UA as an Extra-Dimensional Space and putting one in another means rip and then a trip to the Astral Plane.
EDIT:
Same thing happens with the spell Rope Trick
No, bags of holding list the objects it rips inside.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Placing a bag of holding inside an extradimensional space created by a handy haversack, portable hole, or similar item instantly destroys both items and opens a gate to the Astral Plane. The gate originates where the one item was placed inside the other. Any creature within 10 feet of the gate is sucked through it to a random location on the Astral Plane. The gate then closes. The gate is one-way only and can't be reopened.
“Placing a bag of holding inside an extradimensional space created by a handy haversack, portable hole, or similar item instantly destroys both items and opens a gate to the Astral Plane.”
The way it is worded, it is an item, and similar to a portable hole. I don’t like that, and would change it, though.
It is not unbalanced. Stop overrating things.
Get over yourselves.
I'm out. There is nothing I can say that will convince you to approach this as an actual session by session subclass, only a magical christmasland where everything is a pokemon.
And you sure as hell aren't convincing me that damage type, with FEW exceptions, isn't something that pops up only once or twice every session if at all.
*Except for it applying to resistance and immunity spells like absorb elements that shit IS broken but can easily be changed as "a spell that deals damage not triggered from an outside source"
Bring your fireballs to Avernus.
If you could start quoting posts, instead of replying to them, it would make this convergument a lot easier for people to follow...
I have to agree, a lot of features from this subclass feel like they belong as part of the base Wizard class. The problem is that it would require a complete redesign of the Wizard class to really implement it, which is going to be out of the question until 6e. And we all know that 6e is still a really long way out from now.
The evocation sculpt spell is similar for sure but it is actually worse than careful spell since its limited to evocation spells only
The UA damage swap for sorcerers is limited to elemental damage only and costs a point to use, the wizard version is any damage and is free. It's a direct upgrade
And as has been said just because it has happened in the past does not mean it should continue to happen in future releases