Hello! I'm interested in building a fear-based subclass for the barbarian, and I have a pretty good idea of what sort of abilities I'm interested in. However, I'm not sure what levels would be appropriate to add the abilities to, and am sure that some of them need balance tweaking. Additionally, while most of these abilities work together well, they're all pretty combat-oriented and lack much roleplay depth. So, any advice on that front would also be appreciated. As far as abilities go, I'd like all or most of the following functions to appear in the subclass in some form or another:
Here's the original list
When you rage, all enemy creatures within 60 Ft of you must make a wisdom saving throw or be Frightened of you. The DC is 8 + Str ÷ Prof. They may make another save at the end of every turn.
You gain proficiency with the Intimidation skill and may use Strength as its modifier.
Your bonus rage damage is increased against frightened enemies.
Your Rage doesn't end while a creature is frightened of you
You may frighten any creature whose CR is not more than 2 levels above your character level regardless of immunities or intelligence.
Creatures who are frightened of you also have their movement speed reduced by 5 ft.
When you critically strike an enemy creature, all enemy creatures within 15 ft. must make a Wisdom saving throw or be frightened of you in the same manner as your rage.
When you hit a frightened creature with a Reckless Attack, you may choose one of the following:
Gain Temp HP
Inflict Disadvantage on Wisdom Saving Throws until the end of the creature's next turn
Compel the creature to move 10 feet directly away from you, avoiding falls or dangerous terrain.
You may do this a number of times equal to your proficiency score per short rest.
As a note, im trying to find ways to add some options for the barbarian, who is otherwise pretty bland in combat, hence the list of effects. If possible, I'd like to keep or even reinforce that theme. Also, the effect to fear any kind of creature of a relevant CR feels pretty crucial, as many creatures can't be feared at all, and would basically give this class no chance to be fun in a conflict with them.
Here's the revised list
When you rage, a number of enemy creatures equal to your proficiency bonus within 30 Ft of you must make a wisdom saving throw or be Frightened of you. The DC is 8 + Str + Prof. They may make another save at the end of each of their turns.
Your bonus rage damage is increased against frightened enemies. (Add prof. score?)
Your Rage doesn't end while a creature is frightened of you and, if there are no creatures who are frightened of you at the start of your turn while you are raging, you may use a bonus action to force a creature within 30 ft. to make a Wisdom saving throw against your Frighten DC or become frightened of you. They may attempt the save again at the end of every one of their turns.
You may frighten any creature whose CR is not more than 2 levels above your character level even if they are immune. This does not include creatures who are not intelligent enough to have a sense of self-preservation.
When you critically strike an enemy creature, all enemy creatures within 15 ft. must make a Wisdom saving throw or be frightened of you in the same manner as your rage. (Change to "When you kill a frightened creature?")
When you hit a frightened creature with a Reckless Attack, you may choose one of the following:
Gain Temp HP
Inflict Disadvantage on Wisdom Saving Throws until the end of the creature's next turn
Compel the creature to move 10 feet directly away from you, avoiding falls or dangerous terrain.
You may do this a number of times equal to your proficiency score per short rest.
Proposed Application
3rd level
Terrifying Rage: When you rage, a number of enemy creatures equal to your proficiency bonus within 30 Ft of you must pass a wisdom saving throw or be Frightened of you. The DC is 8 + Str + Prof. They may make another save at the end of each of their turns. Additionally, you gain proficiency with the Intimidation skill. If you already have proficiency, double your proficiency bonus for Intimidation.
Demoralizing Blow: When you hit a creature with a Reckless Attack, you may use a bonus action to force the creature to pass a Wisdom Saving Throw or be Frightened of you. The DC is the same as your Terrifying Rage DC, and the creature may repeat the save at the end of every one of their turns.
6th level
Feardrinker: Your Rage doesn't end while a creature is frightened of you and, if there are no creatures who are frightened of you at the start of your turn while you are raging, you may use a bonus action to force a creature within 30 ft. to make a Wisdom saving throw against your Terrifying Rage DC or become frightened of you. They may attempt the save again at the end of every one of their turns.
10th level
None Can Escape: Creatures with a CR equal to or less than your character level + 2 are no longer immune to your fear. Enemies that are afraid of you must attempt to Hide from you before they can save against the effect (Maybe they have to break line of sight?)
14th level
Crush the Weak:Your rage now extends beyond the ability's duration as long as there is an enemy creature that is frightened of you. If an enemy surrenders or is reduced to 0 hitpoints while afraid of you, you gain temporary hitpoints equal to half of your barbarian level.
Those aren't bad ideas at all, but you're up against headwinds. The first ability correctly adjusts for the fact that charisma is a barbarian dump stat. Making a fear DC based on strength (or constitution) is the right call. For that ability, it's too powerful as is. You could have it target one creature or a number based on your prof. bonus or something like that. You may want a ribbon ability giving proficiency with intimidation and using str or con as the ability. I think being able to frighten an undead or construct is a bit weird if not a magical compulsion.
Thanks! Yeah, tying the number of targets to proficiency sounds like a good call. I had wanted to do something for Intimidation, too, but I was concerned that there may be too many abilities here already. I'll definitely throw that in, though, as it also helps add some out-of-combat stuff.
I did actually imagine the fearing constructs and other things as being at least pseudo-magical. The idea was that it basically gives things a fight or flight to trigger, even if they don't typically have something like that. Mostly, I want the abilities to still be useful at higher levels where many things are immune to fear. Maybe having it work on immunities, but not lack of intelligence would be the right way to go? Have some blind spots in the kit.
When you rage, all enemy creatures within 60 Ft of you must make a wisdom saving throw or be Frightened of you. The DC is 8 + Str ÷ Prof. They may make another save at the end of every turn.
This is way too strong. It should be knocked down to 30 feet at the least, and probably based off CON. Compare to the Way of Long Death monk, who gets a similar power at level 6 - range of 30 feet, based on secondary stat, takes a whole action (whereas this is essentially free), and the frighten only lasts one round.
You may frighten any creature whose CR is not more than 2 levels above your character level regardless of immunities or intelligence.
I would just strike this. Some things just can't be frightened, and that's the way it should be. It sucks when your schtick doesn't work, but most builds face a situation like that now and then.
Creatures who are frightened of you also have their movement speed reduced by 5 ft.
Tiny adjustments like this are typically not worth the effort it takes to keep track of them. Most of the time, it won't make any difference in the outcome.
If it were me, I'd make this more of a single target thing. You pick out one victim and terrorize them until they're dead. Then you can move on to another. Frightening everyone on the battlefield is just way too good.
Yeah, decreasing the range seems fair. I based it on Strength because I figured that would be the element inspiring fear, and can be a secondary stat for a barb if they focus on Con, but maybe that's not as common as I'd thought.
I mostly included that as, some time ago I came up with a similar concept and someone gave me the critique that the abilities would become basically useless at later levels. Maybe that's not accurate, though. I wouldn't be opposed to striking it if it isn't necessary.
That's fair. I added that to help the barb catch enemies who run, since frightened prevents you from drawing closer to the source of fright. Maybe that's not necessary, though.
Yeah, I do want it to have that feel. I had it effecting other enemies so you could move to a new target if they hadn't shaken your fear yet. Otherwise, you'd usually have to drop your rage so you could go in and fear a second enemy. Though, maybe I could change the ability that forces a save against frighten when you crit someone to just be an effect that occurs if you kill a frightened enemy? Then you'd have a tool to spread fear to a new target?
Maybe if no one was frightened when they start their turn and are raging they could use a bonus action to force a target to make a wisdom save? I think there could be a way to keep it going in a more focused way. Something similar to Hex or Hunter's Mark where you can reapply it once your target is defeated.
And I think it's legit to want a way to prevent everyone from just running away, I just think it might feel more impactful if it's stronger - but of course to balance that it needs to be limited somehow.
I also support alternate ways to keep rage going. I think it can be really frustrating for DMs and players alike how easy it can be to lose rage in encounters that aren't one mass of enemies in a confined space.
Mhmm, that makes sense. Maybe I can come up with a more interesting mechanic for sticking to people who are afraid.
Yeah, I'm glad to hear that. I do think it can be a bit of a bummer, especially considering it's a long rest feature.
Any ideas on a way I could make heavy armor work for this subclass? I know that sorta flies in the face of the base class, so I'm not sure if it's really a viable option, but this feels like the sort of thing that would benefit from a horned helmet and a big black suit of armor.
I really like the core idea behind this and you've got a load of great ideas here. Plus the basic "fear blast" on Rage seems well balanced; roughly in line with Cause Fear except it hits more targets but uses a more limited resource (at least before level 20).
I do feel like the later bullet points might make it a bit more complicated though; I'd probably drop the "fear on crit" feature in favour of making fear checks part of Reckless Attack (rather than offering a choice of effects), as well as the bonus action if you need to maintain Rage. Then focus features on levelling up the fear effect until it's more like the Fear spell.
So for example it might look something like:
3rd level: Fear blast on Rage. Maybe intimidation proficiency if you don't already have it, or double proficiency if you do?
6th level: Fear maintains your Rage. You can force a fear check the first time you hit a creature with a Reckless Attack each turn, or if no creatures are afraid of you can use a bonus action to force a fear check on a single target up to 60 feet away?
10th level: Enemies up to CR2+ your level are no longer immune to your fear. Enemies that are afraid of you must attempt to Hide from you before they can save against the effect (makes your fear more like the Fear spell, and potentially makes you less vulnerable while using Reckless Attack).
14th level: Fear now prolongs your Rage (it can last more than a minute). If an enemy surrenders or is reduced to 0 hitpoints while afraid of you, you gain temporary hitpoints (half class level?).
Something along these lines? Just my thoughts as I think you have a lot of good ideas here, it just maybe needs streamlined a little (not that I can talk authoritatively, I over-complicate stuff myself, heh).
Any ideas on a way I could make heavy armor work for this subclass? I know that sorta flies in the face of the base class, so I'm not sure if it's really a viable option, but this feels like the sort of thing that would benefit from a horned helmet and a big black suit of armor.
I'm actually picturing the opposite; a Barbarian that's relying on unarmored defence only and yet is still so clearly confident in their ability to win that that itself is scary!
I don't think there's any need to give heavy armor proficiency as standard; half plate is pretty heavy already, and there are ways for players to get heavy armor proficiency with feats or multiclassing (or training if the DM allows) if that's the angle they want to play.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Those are great ideas, and I really like that spread. I am a little hesitant to remove the options from reckless attack just because the barbarian is so simple turn-to-turn that I'd really like to give him some buttons to push. Do you have any ideas on how I might maintain that flexibility for the sake of variety? Big fan of that lineup though. I think I'll work off of that from here on out.
Fair point on the armor. I'll just leave that to the mechanics that are there.
Hello! I'm interested in building a fear-based subclass for the barbarian, and I have a pretty good idea of what sort of abilities I'm interested in. However, I'm not sure what levels would be appropriate to add the abilities to, and am sure that some of them need balance tweaking. Additionally, while most of these abilities work together well, they're all pretty combat-oriented and lack much roleplay depth. So, any advice on that front would also be appreciated. As far as abilities go, I'd like all or most of the following functions to appear in the subclass in some form or another:
Here's the original list
As a note, im trying to find ways to add some options for the barbarian, who is otherwise pretty bland in combat, hence the list of effects. If possible, I'd like to keep or even reinforce that theme. Also, the effect to fear any kind of creature of a relevant CR feels pretty crucial, as many creatures can't be feared at all, and would basically give this class no chance to be fun in a conflict with them.
Here's the revised list
Proposed Application
3rd level
Terrifying Rage: When you rage, a number of enemy creatures equal to your proficiency bonus within 30 Ft of you must pass a wisdom saving throw or be Frightened of you. The DC is 8 + Str + Prof. They may make another save at the end of each of their turns. Additionally, you gain proficiency with the Intimidation skill. If you already have proficiency, double your proficiency bonus for Intimidation.
Demoralizing Blow: When you hit a creature with a Reckless Attack, you may use a bonus action to force the creature to pass a Wisdom Saving Throw or be Frightened of you. The DC is the same as your Terrifying Rage DC, and the creature may repeat the save at the end of every one of their turns.
6th level
Feardrinker: Your Rage doesn't end while a creature is frightened of you and, if there are no creatures who are frightened of you at the start of your turn while you are raging, you may use a bonus action to force a creature within 30 ft. to make a Wisdom saving throw against your Terrifying Rage DC or become frightened of you. They may attempt the save again at the end of every one of their turns.
10th level
None Can Escape: Creatures with a CR equal to or less than your character level + 2 are no longer immune to your fear. Enemies that are afraid of you must attempt to Hide from you before they can save against the effect (Maybe they have to break line of sight?)
14th level
Crush the Weak: Your rage now extends beyond the ability's duration as long as there is an enemy creature that is frightened of you. If an enemy surrenders or is reduced to 0 hitpoints while afraid of you, you gain temporary hitpoints equal to half of your barbarian level.
Those aren't bad ideas at all, but you're up against headwinds. The first ability correctly adjusts for the fact that charisma is a barbarian dump stat. Making a fear DC based on strength (or constitution) is the right call. For that ability, it's too powerful as is. You could have it target one creature or a number based on your prof. bonus or something like that. You may want a ribbon ability giving proficiency with intimidation and using str or con as the ability. I think being able to frighten an undead or construct is a bit weird if not a magical compulsion.
Thanks! Yeah, tying the number of targets to proficiency sounds like a good call. I had wanted to do something for Intimidation, too, but I was concerned that there may be too many abilities here already. I'll definitely throw that in, though, as it also helps add some out-of-combat stuff.
I did actually imagine the fearing constructs and other things as being at least pseudo-magical. The idea was that it basically gives things a fight or flight to trigger, even if they don't typically have something like that. Mostly, I want the abilities to still be useful at higher levels where many things are immune to fear. Maybe having it work on immunities, but not lack of intelligence would be the right way to go? Have some blind spots in the kit.
This is way too strong. It should be knocked down to 30 feet at the least, and probably based off CON. Compare to the Way of Long Death monk, who gets a similar power at level 6 - range of 30 feet, based on secondary stat, takes a whole action (whereas this is essentially free), and the frighten only lasts one round.
I would just strike this. Some things just can't be frightened, and that's the way it should be. It sucks when your schtick doesn't work, but most builds face a situation like that now and then.
Tiny adjustments like this are typically not worth the effort it takes to keep track of them. Most of the time, it won't make any difference in the outcome.
If it were me, I'd make this more of a single target thing. You pick out one victim and terrorize them until they're dead. Then you can move on to another. Frightening everyone on the battlefield is just way too good.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Thanks!
Yeah, decreasing the range seems fair. I based it on Strength because I figured that would be the element inspiring fear, and can be a secondary stat for a barb if they focus on Con, but maybe that's not as common as I'd thought.
I mostly included that as, some time ago I came up with a similar concept and someone gave me the critique that the abilities would become basically useless at later levels. Maybe that's not accurate, though. I wouldn't be opposed to striking it if it isn't necessary.
That's fair. I added that to help the barb catch enemies who run, since frightened prevents you from drawing closer to the source of fright. Maybe that's not necessary, though.
Yeah, I do want it to have that feel. I had it effecting other enemies so you could move to a new target if they hadn't shaken your fear yet. Otherwise, you'd usually have to drop your rage so you could go in and fear a second enemy. Though, maybe I could change the ability that forces a save against frighten when you crit someone to just be an effect that occurs if you kill a frightened enemy? Then you'd have a tool to spread fear to a new target?
Maybe if no one was frightened when they start their turn and are raging they could use a bonus action to force a target to make a wisdom save? I think there could be a way to keep it going in a more focused way. Something similar to Hex or Hunter's Mark where you can reapply it once your target is defeated.
And I think it's legit to want a way to prevent everyone from just running away, I just think it might feel more impactful if it's stronger - but of course to balance that it needs to be limited somehow.
I also support alternate ways to keep rage going. I think it can be really frustrating for DMs and players alike how easy it can be to lose rage in encounters that aren't one mass of enemies in a confined space.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Oh yeah, I really like that! Thanks!
Mhmm, that makes sense. Maybe I can come up with a more interesting mechanic for sticking to people who are afraid.
Yeah, I'm glad to hear that. I do think it can be a bit of a bummer, especially considering it's a long rest feature.
Any ideas on a way I could make heavy armor work for this subclass? I know that sorta flies in the face of the base class, so I'm not sure if it's really a viable option, but this feels like the sort of thing that would benefit from a horned helmet and a big black suit of armor.
I really like the core idea behind this and you've got a load of great ideas here. Plus the basic "fear blast" on Rage seems well balanced; roughly in line with Cause Fear except it hits more targets but uses a more limited resource (at least before level 20).
I do feel like the later bullet points might make it a bit more complicated though; I'd probably drop the "fear on crit" feature in favour of making fear checks part of Reckless Attack (rather than offering a choice of effects), as well as the bonus action if you need to maintain Rage. Then focus features on levelling up the fear effect until it's more like the Fear spell.
So for example it might look something like:
Something along these lines? Just my thoughts as I think you have a lot of good ideas here, it just maybe needs streamlined a little (not that I can talk authoritatively, I over-complicate stuff myself, heh).
I'm actually picturing the opposite; a Barbarian that's relying on unarmored defence only and yet is still so clearly confident in their ability to win that that itself is scary!
I don't think there's any need to give heavy armor proficiency as standard; half plate is pretty heavy already, and there are ways for players to get heavy armor proficiency with feats or multiclassing (or training if the DM allows) if that's the angle they want to play.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Those are great ideas, and I really like that spread. I am a little hesitant to remove the options from reckless attack just because the barbarian is so simple turn-to-turn that I'd really like to give him some buttons to push. Do you have any ideas on how I might maintain that flexibility for the sake of variety? Big fan of that lineup though. I think I'll work off of that from here on out.
Fair point on the armor. I'll just leave that to the mechanics that are there.