We are a party of 6 level 8-9 characters in 5e. I am playing a level 9 Lore Bard and my DM gave me a Rust Bag of Tricks at the end of the 2nd last game we played. He immediately started to regret it when i played the item last game (already using the erreta about despawning at dawn). He's afraid having 3 pets at once is going to bug down combats too much (+ he knows I am planning to pick Find Greater Steed next level making it 4 pets at all time).
Do you guys have experience playing with this item? How do you keep it balanced and fun to play so it doesn't slow combat too much?
I feel like I am already one of the faster players at the table (my turns are usually done the quickest). My DM suggested i would only be able to pull one animal out at a time, but that would be a significant nerf i belive. I want to suggest him something more interesting for me while not disturbing everyone's experience with my zoo.
My 1st ideas are : -Have a cheat sheet with all animals stats to refer to quickly for AC, saves, move speed -Have a set list of pre-commmand for each animal e.g. rat will be distracting the target of our fighter (help action); bear will stay by my side and engage the 1st ennemy coming at me (ready action an attack or a grapple to protect me), etc. Those pre-commands would be written on my paper but i would not say everytime i summon an animal what command i am giving it, it would just always be the same generic command.
-Said command for medium or smaller creature will always be to distract for ally X (help action)
-If i get 2 larges, I'll probly be using one as a mount or give one of my allies a mount
Going off of RAW, it is an action to use a single fuzzy object from the bag. Granted, there's nothing stopping you from just tossing out all three fuzzy objects first thing in the morning, but if you don't have them all out at the start of combat, it will be an action on each of your turns to summon a new one. Also, issuing a single command to one creature requires a bonus action on each turn, but once given a general command the creature will follow it to the best of their ability. This is another thing you can prep ahead of time... like if you summon a smaller creature first thing in the morning, you could just order it to "Follow The Fighter, and distract anyone he's attacking". The DM might mess with you a bit, since the creatures aren't too intelligent, so it might try to "distract" a merchant the fighter is trying to haggle with.
But yes, definitely have the stats for all the creatures handy. And keep in mind if you choose to use a larger creature as a mount, odds are decent that you won't have a saddle or barding for it, so it will be fairly easy to knock you or your party member off.
It sounds like you're using the bag as intended. I think it would be in your best interest to sort of "take charge' and make sure to track as much of the creatures on your own as possible to take pressure off your DM. It might slow things down the first couple of combat encounters as you're getting used to keeping track of all that, and you might start running into more enemies with AOE attacks that just wipe out your little menagerie at the start of combat, but overall I think you have a solid plan for how to use them. If it really does become a difficulty at the table that slows things down and makes the game less fun for everybody (which I doubt will be the case), then the best case scenario would be to ask your DM about trading it for a different magic item.
There's only 8 possible creatures, so add them to your character sheet under the Extras tab if you use DnDbeyond for your character, or print them off if you don't. Learn these 8 creatures as intimately as you can. They act on your turn, so it's not like you have to roll 3 extra initiatives or anything. If you've given them the general order of "attack anything we're fighting" or something of the sort, just plug out their attacks quickly at the end of your turn. Otherwise, try to have in mind what you want them to do before your turn comes up, and quickly describe what you're using your bonus action to accomplish.
All told, 3 extra - fairly simple - creatures shouldn't bog down combat very much. If you're intimate with their abilities and they are juts attacking, you can probably have all 3 of them go in 30 seconds or less. Only 3 of the 8 possible creatures are really any good at attacking and surviving in combat, anyway.
If they think the bag of tricks is bad, tell them to be glad you're not casting animate objects on a handful of ball-bearings every combat...
A horde of ten animated ball-bearings, each with their own attack rolls (and +8!) will slow things down. Like a swarm of tiny magic missiles.
This ^
Or just using basically any summoning ability, such as Conjure Animals. I'm honestly very surprised your DM is worrying about this. Controlling a bunch of creatures at once is kind of part and parcel with the job. Certainly helps if players have an idea of how to run the creatures they are able to summon... but still.
If you want to make things really easy, you can plug the creatures' stats into a Virtual Tabletop like Roll20, and then you'll be able to make all their attacks and such with a click. There's also a 3rd party browser extension called Beyond20 you can install in Firefox or Chrome that allows you to roll straight off of character sheets/statblocks on DnDbeyond onto a virtual tabletop. It's extremely handy.
Yeah, either way the big thing is for the player to plan ahead and have stats of the mobs you want to (or are able to) summon to speed things up. For stuff like conjure animals, technically it says the DM chooses, but I'd recommend working out a short list with the DM ahead of time so there's not time wasted looking stuff up. (Though with DDB you're just talking a few clicks to get the stat block you want...)
If they think the bag of tricks is bad, tell them to be glad you're not casting animate objects on a handful of ball-bearings every combat...
A horde of ten animated ball-bearings, each with their own attack rolls (and +8!) will slow things down. Like a swarm of tiny magic missiles.
Actually.... I also picked Animate objects at level 9 (but haven't use it yet, I just got level 9). I bought a set of silverware to throw at my ennemies. Plus, I plan on learning Find Greater Steed next level to have my dedicated Pegasus.
And that's not it yet... I am also looking for a ring of spell storing as my next item so i can get everyone in the party their own steed.... but I suspect my DM may nerf the item when we reach that point (but that's another topic)...
Hello, one of the things that is really bugging me and did cause a fairly heated debate is the difference between a specific command and a general command.
If you pull the creature out and give it a general command to say "Attack the enemy" it will do that straight away to the best of its ability and until commanded otherwise. However in the description there is the word OR and the other option is to give it a specific action say "Go over there 15 feet, pick up my sword and bring it back to me" but it says for this kind of command that the creature won't do it until it's next turn. So I read this as Round One of combat (creature is already there) - Bonus action "Go and get my sword and bring it back". Round 2 - Creature does the command.
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Hi guys,
We are a party of 6 level 8-9 characters in 5e. I am playing a level 9 Lore Bard and my DM gave me a Rust Bag of Tricks at the end of the 2nd last game we played. He immediately started to regret it when i played the item last game (already using the erreta about despawning at dawn). He's afraid having 3 pets at once is going to bug down combats too much (+ he knows I am planning to pick Find Greater Steed next level making it 4 pets at all time).
Do you guys have experience playing with this item? How do you keep it balanced and fun to play so it doesn't slow combat too much?
I feel like I am already one of the faster players at the table (my turns are usually done the quickest). My DM suggested i would only be able to pull one animal out at a time, but that would be a significant nerf i belive. I want to suggest him something more interesting for me while not disturbing everyone's experience with my zoo.
My 1st ideas are :
-Have a cheat sheet with all animals stats to refer to quickly for AC, saves, move speed
-Have a set list of pre-commmand for each animal e.g. rat will be distracting the target of our fighter (help action); bear will stay by my side and engage the 1st ennemy coming at me (ready action an attack or a grapple to protect me), etc. Those pre-commands would be written on my paper but i would not say everytime i summon an animal what command i am giving it, it would just always be the same generic command.
-Said command for medium or smaller creature will always be to distract for ally X (help action)
-If i get 2 larges, I'll probly be using one as a mount or give one of my allies a mount
You can add the animals to your sheet on D&D Beyond using the Extras tab.
And how long do you expect these to survive for? Any AOE effect will most likely one-shot all of them.
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Going off of RAW, it is an action to use a single fuzzy object from the bag. Granted, there's nothing stopping you from just tossing out all three fuzzy objects first thing in the morning, but if you don't have them all out at the start of combat, it will be an action on each of your turns to summon a new one. Also, issuing a single command to one creature requires a bonus action on each turn, but once given a general command the creature will follow it to the best of their ability. This is another thing you can prep ahead of time... like if you summon a smaller creature first thing in the morning, you could just order it to "Follow The Fighter, and distract anyone he's attacking". The DM might mess with you a bit, since the creatures aren't too intelligent, so it might try to "distract" a merchant the fighter is trying to haggle with.
But yes, definitely have the stats for all the creatures handy. And keep in mind if you choose to use a larger creature as a mount, odds are decent that you won't have a saddle or barding for it, so it will be fairly easy to knock you or your party member off.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
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I did toss all 3 of them out as a 1st action in the morning and gave them one order to follow for their short life
Using bonus action in combat only to override the first command to do more specific stuff like "snap that ally out of daze" from hypnotic pattern
It sounds like you're using the bag as intended. I think it would be in your best interest to sort of "take charge' and make sure to track as much of the creatures on your own as possible to take pressure off your DM. It might slow things down the first couple of combat encounters as you're getting used to keeping track of all that, and you might start running into more enemies with AOE attacks that just wipe out your little menagerie at the start of combat, but overall I think you have a solid plan for how to use them. If it really does become a difficulty at the table that slows things down and makes the game less fun for everybody (which I doubt will be the case), then the best case scenario would be to ask your DM about trading it for a different magic item.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
There's only 8 possible creatures, so add them to your character sheet under the Extras tab if you use DnDbeyond for your character, or print them off if you don't. Learn these 8 creatures as intimately as you can. They act on your turn, so it's not like you have to roll 3 extra initiatives or anything. If you've given them the general order of "attack anything we're fighting" or something of the sort, just plug out their attacks quickly at the end of your turn. Otherwise, try to have in mind what you want them to do before your turn comes up, and quickly describe what you're using your bonus action to accomplish.
All told, 3 extra - fairly simple - creatures shouldn't bog down combat very much. If you're intimate with their abilities and they are juts attacking, you can probably have all 3 of them go in 30 seconds or less. Only 3 of the 8 possible creatures are really any good at attacking and surviving in combat, anyway.
If they think the bag of tricks is bad, tell them to be glad you're not casting animate objects on a handful of ball-bearings every combat...
A horde of ten animated ball-bearings, each with their own attack rolls (and +8!) will slow things down. Like a swarm of tiny magic missiles.
This ^
Or just using basically any summoning ability, such as Conjure Animals. I'm honestly very surprised your DM is worrying about this. Controlling a bunch of creatures at once is kind of part and parcel with the job. Certainly helps if players have an idea of how to run the creatures they are able to summon... but still.
Sorry for the double post.
If you want to make things really easy, you can plug the creatures' stats into a Virtual Tabletop like Roll20, and then you'll be able to make all their attacks and such with a click. There's also a 3rd party browser extension called Beyond20 you can install in Firefox or Chrome that allows you to roll straight off of character sheets/statblocks on DnDbeyond onto a virtual tabletop. It's extremely handy.
Yeah, either way the big thing is for the player to plan ahead and have stats of the mobs you want to (or are able to) summon to speed things up. For stuff like conjure animals, technically it says the DM chooses, but I'd recommend working out a short list with the DM ahead of time so there's not time wasted looking stuff up. (Though with DDB you're just talking a few clicks to get the stat block you want...)
Actually.... I also picked Animate objects at level 9 (but haven't use it yet, I just got level 9). I bought a set of silverware to throw at my ennemies. Plus, I plan on learning Find Greater Steed next level to have my dedicated Pegasus.
And that's not it yet... I am also looking for a ring of spell storing as my next item so i can get everyone in the party their own steed.... but I suspect my DM may nerf the item when we reach that point (but that's another topic)...
Hello, one of the things that is really bugging me and did cause a fairly heated debate is the difference between a specific command and a general command.
If you pull the creature out and give it a general command to say "Attack the enemy" it will do that straight away to the best of its ability and until commanded otherwise.
However in the description there is the word OR and the other option is to give it a specific action say "Go over there 15 feet, pick up my sword and bring it back to me" but it says for this kind of command that the creature won't do it until it's next turn. So I read this as Round One of combat (creature is already there) - Bonus action "Go and get my sword and bring it back".
Round 2 - Creature does the command.