We're starting a homebrew campaign soon (starting at level 1) and I'm finding myself having to make that classic choice between a Rogue and a Bard. It'll be a three-man party, with a Dragonborn Paladin (Oath of the Crown) and a Tiefling Warlock (subclass not yet known).
I've got two planned character builds baked and ready to go. The first is a Verdan Lore Bard X/Hexblade 2, and the second is a Half-Elf Swashbuckler X/Battlemaster 3. I'm equally in love with both character concepts, both have great roleplay potential, and both fill the role of skill monkey for the party. I feel like the Bard brings more to the table with spellcasting (crowd control, healing, counterspelling), but that might leave the party a bit too squishy.
Bards aren't squishier than Rogues and bards bring extra buffs and healing to the party which will make the part as a whole less squishy. Go bard. Or if you really want to cheese it, start out as a Rogue for extra skills and expertise, then go Bard. ;)
Uncanny Dodge and Evasion are both great defensive features
Cunning Action indirectly mitigates a lot of damage by getting you out of sticky situations
I think the biggest choice here is combat playstyle. Bards are full casters, rogues don't cast at all. If you're planning on going to high levels, bard - and especially lore bard - gets some really powerful spells that will effective both in and out of combat. I think OP pretty much nailed it in that the tradeoff will be between versatility and survivability.
I'd also consider that with a Paladin and a Warlock, your party is already going to have Charisma covered but not much else. A lore bard could definitely lean into INT skills, while a rogue could have the flexibility to invest in WIS and cover those skills reasonably well.
And one last thing is the warlock's build. If they are leaning more towards control than damage, your combats might be pretty slow without rogue's damage. If they are going the other way, bard's support might be more effective.
At the end of the day though, both would be great additions. You can't make a wrong choice here.
And one last thing is the warlock's build. If they are leaning more towards control than damage, your combats might be pretty slow without rogue's damage. If they are going the other way, bard's support might be more effective.
That's probably the crux of the decision. If our Warlock ends up going for something blasty like Fiend, then we'll probably be fine for damage. If not, I'd probably go for rogue to avoid too much overlap and to shore up the damage output.
And yeah, my Lore Bard will be picking up a few INT skills just so we're no entirely a bunch of charismatic idiots! And our paladin's aura + bardic inspiration will help out a lot with some of our worse saves.
Grabbing a couple of levels in Hexblade (probably around level 7) will also let me throw on a shield and medium armour, which should help with the squishyness.
If you are flip-flopping then I think you should go Rogue. Bards are for people that love playing Bards. If you have to think about it, play a Rogue. Either of them could benefit greatly from an Elven Chain Shirt which does not require proficiency to wear as a proficient piece of armor.
Both do the plethora of skills. Your party probably doesn't need a Charisma front man, unless you are the best player for that. The Rogue has skills that rest of the party doesn't. The other two members of the party have spellcasting covered.
Good luck. Have fun.
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Go with rogue, they have more skills and can grab thieves tools expertise, and a well built swashbuckler is almost impossible to pin down and with a shield and a high dex you be quite survivable
Both are awesome classes so choose whichever you feel more drawn to. The Rogue vs. Bard debate is timeless and there isn't a real answer in regard to which one is better. Both have their strengths and weaknesses and both are very fun to play.
If you are flip-flopping then I think you should go Rogue. Bards are for people that love playing Bards. If you have to think about it, play a Rogue. Either of them could benefit greatly from an Elven Chain Shirt which does not require proficiency to wear as a proficient piece of armor.
Both do the plethora of skills. Your party probably doesn't need a Charisma front man, unless you are the best player for that. The Rogue has skills that rest of the party doesn't. The other two members of the party have spellcasting covered.
Good luck. Have fun.
Yeah, all of these are good advice.
Adding to that, a bard can always fill the role of the rogue (skills, lockpicking, stuff like that) but a rogue will have a hard time being a bard (spellcasting, buffing, being the face, stuff like that). Bards are very much reliant on resources (spell slots, inspiration) that needs recharging, rogues don't have the same issue. If you think this is something you might not like, go rogue.
Thanks for your input, everyone! Our Warlock decided on Great Old One, which I feel has a lot of overlap with my Bard, so I've decided to go for Swashbuckler instead.
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Hello everyone!
We're starting a homebrew campaign soon (starting at level 1) and I'm finding myself having to make that classic choice between a Rogue and a Bard. It'll be a three-man party, with a Dragonborn Paladin (Oath of the Crown) and a Tiefling Warlock (subclass not yet known).
I've got two planned character builds baked and ready to go. The first is a Verdan Lore Bard X/Hexblade 2, and the second is a Half-Elf Swashbuckler X/Battlemaster 3. I'm equally in love with both character concepts, both have great roleplay potential, and both fill the role of skill monkey for the party. I feel like the Bard brings more to the table with spellcasting (crowd control, healing, counterspelling), but that might leave the party a bit too squishy.
I'm stuck! What would you pick?
Bards aren't squishier than Rogues and bards bring extra buffs and healing to the party which will make the part as a whole less squishy. Go bard. Or if you really want to cheese it, start out as a Rogue for extra skills and expertise, then go Bard. ;)
They are unless you're going Sword/Valor.
I think the biggest choice here is combat playstyle. Bards are full casters, rogues don't cast at all. If you're planning on going to high levels, bard - and especially lore bard - gets some really powerful spells that will effective both in and out of combat. I think OP pretty much nailed it in that the tradeoff will be between versatility and survivability.
I'd also consider that with a Paladin and a Warlock, your party is already going to have Charisma covered but not much else. A lore bard could definitely lean into INT skills, while a rogue could have the flexibility to invest in WIS and cover those skills reasonably well.
And one last thing is the warlock's build. If they are leaning more towards control than damage, your combats might be pretty slow without rogue's damage. If they are going the other way, bard's support might be more effective.
At the end of the day though, both would be great additions. You can't make a wrong choice here.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
That's probably the crux of the decision. If our Warlock ends up going for something blasty like Fiend, then we'll probably be fine for damage. If not, I'd probably go for rogue to avoid too much overlap and to shore up the damage output.
And yeah, my Lore Bard will be picking up a few INT skills just so we're no entirely a bunch of charismatic idiots! And our paladin's aura + bardic inspiration will help out a lot with some of our worse saves.
Grabbing a couple of levels in Hexblade (probably around level 7) will also let me throw on a shield and medium armour, which should help with the squishyness.
It mostly boils down to: Magic V.S. Combat.
Both are great skill and utility classes, so the only question is “what role you want to fulfill?”
If the party is lacking in magic, choose bard. If the party is lacking in damage output, choose rogue.
If you are flip-flopping then I think you should go Rogue. Bards are for people that love playing Bards. If you have to think about it, play a Rogue. Either of them could benefit greatly from an Elven Chain Shirt which does not require proficiency to wear as a proficient piece of armor.
Both do the plethora of skills. Your party probably doesn't need a Charisma front man, unless you are the best player for that. The Rogue has skills that rest of the party doesn't. The other two members of the party have spellcasting covered.
Good luck. Have fun.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
Go with rogue, they have more skills and can grab thieves tools expertise, and a well built swashbuckler is almost impossible to pin down and with a shield and a high dex you be quite survivable
Both are awesome classes so choose whichever you feel more drawn to. The Rogue vs. Bard debate is timeless and there isn't a real answer in regard to which one is better. Both have their strengths and weaknesses and both are very fun to play.
Yeah, all of these are good advice.
Adding to that, a bard can always fill the role of the rogue (skills, lockpicking, stuff like that) but a rogue will have a hard time being a bard (spellcasting, buffing, being the face, stuff like that). Bards are very much reliant on resources (spell slots, inspiration) that needs recharging, rogues don't have the same issue. If you think this is something you might not like, go rogue.
Thanks for your input, everyone! Our Warlock decided on Great Old One, which I feel has a lot of overlap with my Bard, so I've decided to go for Swashbuckler instead.