Designer Insights from Unearthed Arcana: Villainous Options

Your BBEG should start running away from Godzilla as their earliest convenience. Best of luck to them!

Titan druid is pretty awesome except:

1: A Titan shouldn't be easier to take down than a Brown Bear, they need more Temp HP or AC (or both) than a Moon Druid gets.

2: RAW several Druid class features don't work with Titan forms. Primal Strike (Level 7) and Beast Spells (Level 18) both specify that they work when Wild Shaped into a beast form, but the Titan forms are Monstrosities.

3: Damage dice should scale with sizes starting at 2d8, like with #1, Godzilla should do more damage than a Brown Bear.

If these 3 issues were fixed I'd happily drop playing as a Moon Druid in favor of this one. It's circle spells could be better (I think most other circles get a cantrip, I'd personally pick Primal Savagery for this subclass) but that's a minor nitpick compared to the other 2 issues.

Quote from Freman_Bloodglaive >>

Quote from DedKnave >>

There is a lot in here that is just mechanically and objectively bad. Hell knight‘s 18th level feature is basically the no attunement uncommon magic item Hellfire Weapon with minor tweaks. Their ability applies to any creature reduced to 0 hp and takes 1d4 hours sent to a layer of the Nine Hells of choice vs only humanoids and sent to Avernus instantly. The Lich Feats mention nothing about raising undead and I/My players only need to have spellcasting or pact slots, so a fighter can take a 1 level dip with a spellcaster and 3 Lich feats by level 13 to become a Lich?

 

 It gets worse. You only need a race that can cast spells to meet the requirement of "spellcasting" so your Elves and your Tieflings and your Aasimar can all become liches too.

They’ll definitely rework it or at least I hope. I’m not sure if this is base rules but how my friends and I run it. Base requirement is being able to cast a 9th level spell to become a Lich in addition to other steps like making a phylactery and what not.

Love that Paragon Paths are back, but with more flexibility (and fitting nicely alongside Origin Feats (ala 4E's Heroic Themes) and Epic Boons (a la 4E"s Epic Destinies)). 

I'm also really happy that we're getting a Giant-themed Druid build and that I can build Yusuke Yurameshi from end of Chapter Black / Three Kings arcs now! :) 

Hi everybody I have a question. For the Paladin pass of the villains. Am I still a paladin with all my features? Or am I playing a deaf night statistics or Lich statistics. Because I see the feats it wants me to pick which is cool but I don't understand if I'm still a paladin with my subclass say the redemption. Am I still a Redemption subclass but picking villainous choices feats. Or again am I a PC race assmere but I use the death Knights statistics?

Final thought I love all these subclasses.

#4 I have no idea what you're talking about.  There are classes that have swallow abilities in Kinks & Cantrips, I read through them all enough to put them all in as homebrew, and I still have no idea what you're talking about.  It's a Godzilla class.

So far everything looks fun.  I hope there is some guidance in the future book on how to integrate the content into already published stories/adventures.  It's hard to run evil campaigns, it would be great if they were made much more accessible.

Hey, quick question about Arcane Restoration. The feat says you can recover expended spell slots with a “combined level equal to no more than 4.” For Warlocks, once you hit level 9 all your Pact slots are 5th level. Since 5 is higher than the cap of 4, you can’t recover any of them, is what I’m assuming. So does this feat pretty much become useless once a Warlock attains 5th level Pact slots? Feels like an oversight given that Lich Initiate’s prerequisite specifically includes Pact Magic, but then the follow-up feat in the same path doesn’t work with it. Would love some clarification on whether this is intended or if Pact Magic users are meant to be able to recover a slot with this.​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

Your telling me, I can wild shape into GODZILLA!

Takes on each, which will also go into the survey as I'm also testing these in my game: 

Pestilence Cleric:  Really neat concept, Exhaustion is powerful. If you have a Wisdom of 20 and someone with sickening radiance in the party you could kill an enemy with Exhaustion; If you ever have a combat that the enemy lasts at least 5 rounds in melee with you.

Titan Druid: Love the idea, love the forms. However;  Creature type on the forms is confusing as Druid wildshapes don't change your creature type. Additionally a 1 level dip in monk (if i'm not mistaken) means you could have a wildshape with an AC of 20 on top of that Str, Dex, and Wis of 20. The wildshape hp amounts conversely feel low to me.  At level 10, 20 hp in my experience does not last long. 

Hellknight Fighter: Amazing flavor, but an easily removed DoT that 7th onward only actually does something extra if you roll max damage? Randomness on a devil themed effect? I need to test but reading it it does feel it falls short for the sake of someone really liking 666. Its a really interesting dip for a soulknife though. 

Demonic Sorcerer:  I'm reading a melee sorcerer that gets negligible melee support. I like the flavor, but if this sorcerer leans into their class features at all they will die. I think this needs a martial dip to be viable.

The feat lines look solid at a glance, I like the flavor and the doors this opens.  My only issue is that while lich lets you choose ability score dependencies, death knight is locked into Charisma.  I don't think that's right. It wouldn't break balance to allow the Death Knight feats to choose a mental ability score for its dependency. 

Quote from Freman_Bloodglaive >>

Quote from DedKnave >>

There is a lot in here that is just mechanically and objectively bad. Hell knight‘s 18th level feature is basically the no attunement uncommon magic item Hellfire Weapon with minor tweaks. Their ability applies to any creature reduced to 0 hp and takes 1d4 hours sent to a layer of the Nine Hells of choice vs only humanoids and sent to Avernus instantly. The Lich Feats mention nothing about raising undead and I/My players only need to have spellcasting or pact slots, so a fighter can take a 1 level dip with a spellcaster and 3 Lich feats by level 13 to become a Lich?

 

 It gets worse. You only need a race that can cast spells to meet the requirement of "spellcasting" so your Elves and your Tieflings and your Aasimar can all become liches too.

 No, no you do not. As with all 5.5e feats with the "Spellcasting or Pact Magic Feature" prerequisite, Lich Initiate can only be taken by a character if their class or subclass has the Spellcasting or Pact Magic feature. An Elf Barbarian would not be able to take Lich Initiate as (barring multiclassing) they lack the Spellcasting or Pact Magic feature. That said, an Eldritch Knight or Arcane Trickster, as well as any future third-caster subclasses, could qualify for Lich Initiate, as they all have the Spellcasting or Pact Magic feature.

There wasn’t a pun, this is Demonic Sorcerer, it’s the Hell Knight fighter that’s a pun, the nine hells and all. Demons and Devils are different, that’s basic DnD.

(this was a reply)

Quote from IanRayment >>

Does anyone know if these are just generic subclasses or are they suggesting a potential campaign setting? (You know, like when we got the Apocalyptic subclasses and everybody went ooh Dark Sun vibes aplenty!)

Thank you.

 It’s literally dark Sun though, with Defilers and Sorcerer Kings, that’s the difference.

Quote from EldritchSeacrit >>

Takes on each, which will also go into the survey as I'm also testing these in my game: 

Pestilence Cleric:  Really neat concept, Exhaustion is powerful. If you have a Wisdom of 20 and someone with sickening radiance in the party you could kill an enemy with Exhaustion; If you ever have a combat that the enemy lasts at least 5 rounds in melee with you.

Titan Druid: Love the idea, love the forms. However;  Creature type on the forms is confusing as Druid wildshapes don't change your creature type. Additionally a 1 level dip in monk (if i'm not mistaken) means you could have a wildshape with an AC of 20 on top of that Str, Dex, and Wis of 20. The wildshape hp amounts conversely feel low to me.  At level 10, 20 hp in my experience does not last long. 

Hellknight Fighter: Amazing flavor, but an easily removed DoT that 7th onward only actually does something extra if you roll max damage? Randomness on a devil themed effect? I need to test but reading it it does feel it falls short for the sake of someone really liking 666. Its a really interesting dip for a soulknife though. 

Demonic Sorcerer:  I'm reading a melee sorcerer that gets negligible melee support. I like the flavor, but if this sorcerer leans into their class features at all they will die. I think this needs a martial dip to be viable.

The feat lines look solid at a glance, I like the flavor and the doors this opens.  My only issue is that while lich lets you choose ability score dependencies, death knight is locked into Charisma.  I don't think that's right. It wouldn't break balance to allow the Death Knight feats to choose a mental ability score for its dependency. 

 Especially Since 666 Is  Tharidazun’s Number, the Eldritch deity that may or may not have created the abyss but does live in its prison, 9 is the number of the Hells so D10’s(D10-1) would make more sense, even if they’re way too random for the 9 Hells.

Quote from ItzParadokz >>

Hey, quick question about Arcane Restoration. The feat says you can recover expended spell slots with a “combined level equal to no more than 4.” For Warlocks, once you hit level 9 all your Pact slots are 5th level. Since 5 is higher than the cap of 4, you can’t recover any of them, is what I’m assuming. So does this feat pretty much become useless once a Warlock attains 5th level Pact slots? Feels like an oversight given that Lich Initiate’s prerequisite specifically includes Pact Magic, but then the follow-up feat in the same path doesn’t work with it. Would love some clarification on whether this is intended or if Pact Magic users are meant to be able to recover a slot with this.​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

 Yep it doesn’t work with warlocks past 9th level, which is stupid.

Quote from Cuteturtle2theTortlerogue >>

There wasn’t a pun, this is Demonic Sorcerer, it’s the Hell Knight fighter that’s a pun, the nine hells and all. Demons and Devils are different, that’s basic DnD.

 I'm well aware. The pun was based on how they both come from the Lower Planes and how the terms demon and devil are often used interchangeably outside the context of D&D. That said, I acknowledge that it wasn't a good pun in the context of D&D. My bad.

Quote from crudestmeerkat19 >>

Quote from Luckyloomagu >>

At risk of embarrassing myself and being preachy, I must make a snap-judgement decision about something I noticed immediately -- The level 14 'Monstrous Appetite' feature of the titan druid should be re-flavored into any manner of damaging grapple, choosing between bludgeoning OR acid damage, leaving the swallow as a choice rather than as the base.

My reasoning for this is that this feature can quickly become uncomfortable at tables, for a variety of different reasons. Largely, however, I'm looking at this from a 'preventative measure' angle.

See, there's a lot of things in DND that can facilitate uncomfortable situations or topics, but there's always a pretty clear indication of someones intentions, a reliable stop-gap, or sometimes an option to flavor it alternatively. This feature, however, the way you'd want to play with it is also exactly aligned with how it can be used in uncomfortable or upsetting contexts. The material opens with a content warning, which already nudges towards the idea of 'talk before the game about what you'd be uncomfortable with' but the fact that it's purely acid damage combined with its name always comes with the territory of knowing what it's substituting for regardless of the flavor.

The other material in this release is full of different options for potentially uncomfortable topics -- such as the Pestilence Domain Cleric being able to have their plague be something more metaphysical than physical, or the Demonic Sorcerer having less revolting features. The Cleric subclass even has a gameplay feature which has multiple ways to flavor it to avoid discomfort.

The only reason it's an issue worth commenting on is due to it's presence as a gameplay mechanic. Somebody who wants the abilities of the Circle of the Titan Druid but who would be put-off by the flavor of this feature is going to be unable to get past that point, and somebody playing in a party with one will inevitably run into the topic due to it being one of the major features that they'll want to play around.

Hopefully I wrote this as... respectfully as I could be. That 'for a variety of different reasons' is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. Maybe others will see what I mean... Like, a lot of people are calling it 'the v*** subclass' already, lol...

 Yes, you are being preachy. Get over it and stop.

 Yeah it’s a very normal ability in the game where Red Slaad’s Exist. Does this person have a problem with Red Slaad’s?

Quote from Big_Mac >>

Very interesting ideas.

I'm going to use this as inspiration to try to come up with ideas for the Spelljammer campaign setting. (Not the 5e science fiction Spelljammer, but the original fantasy-space setting that had factions like the Company of the Chalice that were full of paladins and knights who could fall and become Death Knights if things went wrong.)

It's great to see this UA has suggestions to tie these options into Greyhawk, Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms. I don't think that Dan Ayoub will be "fixing Spelljammer" any time soon, but I get the feeling that Greyhawk, Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms are probably in reasonably good hands.

I don't think I would allow players to play evil PCs myself, but I think that having a path for things like this creates a clear progress arc for an evil NPC and gives a GM ideas on how they can get information of the process to players, so that they can try to disrupt the various things that an NPC Death Knight or Lich might need to do to raise their power.

 Spelljammer always has been partially science fiction, but more that the technology is more advanced than your average DnD setting. But sounds cool though.

Quote from RecordiconKnok >>

1) Finally, an official fiendish Sorcerer subclass! Hell, yeah! (Pun not intended)

2) These new paths of villainy remind me of 3e/3.5e's Prestige Classes and 4e's Paragon Paths. I love it! I hope we get more feat trees/paths like these in the future! 

 As my reply meant to say, not a Pun at all since it’s an Abyssal subclass, the hell knight is infernal so it sticks though.

Quote from SeriousRed2399 >>

The content within the villainous options playtest brings a fresh feel and approach to DND where most villain character tropes are viewed with annoyance or flat out contempt in regards to party play. While "being a Villain" understandably makes PC party play and cooperationdifficult I think this provides a distinct avenue for the development of a villain based character not typically seen.

As for the content inside, the (Pestilence Domain) cleric and (Hell Knight) fighter appear very fun to develop into a character with potential for intriguing backstories and obvious utility for actual gameplay. The (Circle of the Titan) druid and (Demonic Sorcery) sorcerer subclasses have so much intrigue from a DM's perspective of having that NPC come to life as something bigger or more devastating than the typical stat block from any source material. A Character created for an NPC roll that could ultimately be controlled by a separate player adjacent to the main campaign.

 

The obvious warning of graphic content I believe is something that if important to certain players, than it stands as a warning of content that is probably not for them. While I agree things should be agreed upon as far as levels of comfort with topics such as (body horror, disease, insects etc.) I don't think the content should be restricted to others who may not have those concerns or discomfort in those topics. It is something that should obviously have a balance, yet ultimately up to the individual or group to be able to determine what is or isn't allowed in relation to gameplay.

 I look forward to utilizing this in a way as both DM and Player for a completely different approach!

 Pestilence domain  literally has Gaster plague so it doesn’t seem as disturbing as it could be. But Red Slaad’s Exist Without a content warning so don’t know why these need one.(Or red Slaad’s deserve one they’re disturbing.)