The Sources menu needs some love. Even the strong positive responses cite issues with the covers, the carousel, scrolling/clicking, and so on. Especially two years from now, space will be an issue since so many products are being released, but either way, in the short term, there needs to be a better way to find all sources easier.
We simplified too much in some of the dense areas - while our data shows us that most users only click the "top level," there are several users out there (particularly power users) that appreciated the second level. Ex. Classes > Barbarian, Bard, Cleric... instead of just Classes.
Many of you were used to My Content being leftmost on the nav, so it's foreign to click Creations over to the right.
Some images don't "follow" with their menu item closely enough (I actually believed this myself as we were releasing, but I decided to hold my tongue to see if others felt the same).
List View
With the feedback about accessing "second level" elements and sources more effectively, we're going to introduce a new type of view for the mega menu. We'll continue to have the "grid" view that you see now for many of the menu items (and many sections won't change from that), but more dense items like Sources, Game Rules, and Creations will move to a "list" view. Here's a rough sample (not final, pay no attention to accuracy):
I am happy that I waited a day before giving my opinion because this article covers most of what I had an issue with such as the current source material layout, the loss of directly going to the class page, the images not making sense for some of the buttons (mostly with the buttons under the marketplace section) and the my content being moved. As of right now, here are the only things I can think of that I would like to be changed:
I think "Tools" section is unneeded, to me, both the Character Builder, and the future Encounter Builder I can see fitting under the Creations section. Then the twitch extension could be moved to the "media" section. The reason for these changes is to me, i like the idea how it was before that the button for the character list and builder were together. Plus, it would keep all the creation tools and lists including the homebrew content in one place. As for my choice to move twitch button to the "Media" section, its mostly cause having a drop tab with one button is just unneeded.
With the image shown for the planned "Sources" section, I overall love the change, but please make then alphabetical
With the media section, would it be possible to make a button that would be either a link to or a collection of the Unearthed Arcana material . I understand that not all content can be shown before a certain date, and some of the material is already added in the correct areas such as the U.A. subclasses. I don't seem to see why it would be an issue to make a page dedicated for the content, even if it would be updated for when they are made official.
If this is what you guys can come up with for the redesign for navigation, i can't wait to see what the plan is for the homebrew content overhaul.
Ouch, the horizontal scrolling under Sources is impossible to use with any precision using a macbook trackpad. It scrolls way too quickly, and loops, so it's pretty much random which page you'll end up on.
Otherwise, I'm loving it so far. Big tiles to click on means I can get to what I need faster, and see what I want right away.
Edit: I misunderstood how the scrolling worked with the trackpad. I need to swipe UP/DOWN, but I was trying LEFT/RIGHT (intuition). Still scrolls way too quickly to be practical though!
Ouch, the horizontal scrolling under Sources is impossible to use with any precision using a macbook trackpad. It scrolls way too quickly, and loops, so it's pretty much random which page you'll end up on.
Otherwise, I'm loving it so far. Big tiles to click on means I can get to what I need faster, and see what I want right away.
Yeah, you might have missed the original post in this thread...
I think "Tools" section is unneeded, to me, both the Character Builder, and the future Encounter Builder I can see fitting under the Creations section. Then the twitch extension could be moved to the "media" section. The reason for these changes is to me, i like the idea how it was before that the button for the character list and builder were together. Plus, it would keep all the creation tools and lists including the homebrew content in one place. As for my choice to move twitch button to the "Media" section, its mostly cause having a drop tab with one button is just unneeded.
It might seem unneeded at this point, but six to eight months from now you will start to see how necessary it is.
If that ends up not being the case, then we'll adjust, but I truly believe it will all make sense.
Not a huge fan of the menu changes on the mobile webpage (I love the mega menus on the desktop version). My biggest complaint is that under spells on the menu for mobile devices is there is no longer an option for “all” spells just individual class spell lists. I am now going to dndbeyond.com/spells to get to the all class spell list and that is a little annoying. I would prefer if the all spells option was still available in the mobile web browser menu.
Not a huge fan of the menu changes on the mobile webpage (I love the mega menus on the desktop version). My biggest complaint is that under spells on the menu for mobile devices is there is no longer an option for “all” spells just individual class spell lists. I am now going to dndbeyond.com/spells to get to the all class spell list and that is a little annoying. I would prefer if the all spells option was still available in the mobile web browser menu.
The omission of "All Spells" was an oversight that is now fixed - you should see that option reappear after cache breaks.
With the feedback about accessing "second level" elements and sources more effectively, we're going to introduce a new type of view for the mega menu. We'll continue to have the "grid" view that you see now for many of the menu items (and many sections won't change from that), but more dense items like Sources, Game Rules, and Creations will move to a "list" view. Here's a rough sample (not final, pay no attention to accuracy):
I don't even need to have used this List View to know that, without a doubt, I am in love with it.
While I'll agree the list view would be helpful, the thing I find in the way is the SIZE of the hover menu now. You most definitely will not slide off of it with your mouse because you have to move your mouse half way down the screen to make it go away.
While I appreciate the attempt to help with an issue, the thing is really quite in the way for me. When I'm working on anything at the top of the page, now you have the problem of sliding off the top of what you are doing, activating a hover that covers half your page. What would be nice perhaps are some themes so that if you like something tight and concise you get something like the old text menu. If you want a nice roomy lane like the new layout, select that theme. Could that be a possibility?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Though not currently a member, seeking admission to the really long and important signature club. Please consider this as a current CV.
Quick question/comment: On the "Creations" tab, why does there need to be a separate Homebrew Creations and Homebrew Collection panels?
Maybe I can't tell the different because I don't use anything Homebrew and so both of the empty pages look the same to me. Just seems like something that could be consolidated.
Creations are for things you personally create. Collection is for things others have created that you have added to your profile for use.
What about having something like a Simple View and Advanced View. I know as a DM I need to access a ton of info quickly and efficiently from multiple sources and the old menu was great for that, but I could see a player really liking the new version a lot more as they will likely only be accessing their character sheet most of the time with the occasional book here and there. The List View mentioned on Page 1 would be a better compromise, but is still a little spacey on the DM side of things.
Not a huge fan of the menu changes on the mobile webpage (I love the mega menus on the desktop version). My biggest complaint is that under spells on the menu for mobile devices is there is no longer an option for “all” spells just individual class spell lists. I am now going to dndbeyond.com/spells to get to the all class spell list and that is a little annoying. I would prefer if the all spells option was still available in the mobile web browser menu.
The omission of "All Spells" was an oversight that is now fixed - you should see that option reappear after cache breaks.
Some entirely subjective feedback. For context I am currently involved in three campaigns using DDB; two as a player, one as DM.
The sources menu is a red herring
With one exception — the module I am currently running as DM — the worst way to find what I want on the site is by browsing by source-book. If anything, the way the menu emphasizes the by-book view makes it harder to learn to use the site efficiently because the first way it suggests to navigate is the wrong one. Contrary to what everyone else is saying, I think the sources menu could be done away with entirely (replaced with a single sources link) and that would improve the navigability of the site because of the bigger emphasis that would give the more efficient ways of getting to what you want.
Maybe there's a case to be made for keeping direct links to the Basic Rules, PHB and DMG, but anything more feels like clutter.
(I understand this menu is an important way to communicate to people that there are things they want to buy, but there must be ways of doing this that don't hijack navigation.)
Most often, I want to find my stuff.
The things I absolutely navigate to most whenever I use the site are:
My currently-active characters
The description page for the classes of my currently active characters
The source book for the adventure I am currently running as DM
A smart "my stuff" menu that linked to things relevant to me in my currently active campaigns — my character if I'm a player, the adventure if I'm a DM — would immediately become my most-used menu.
For everything else, I use search.
The number one thing that would improve the site navigation for me has nothing to do with the menus at all. If when I typed the name of a class, spell, ability, monster, etc. into the search bar, selecting the exact match from the drop-down took me directly to the page for that thing, rather than pre-filling the search bar and making me go through the search results page and click on (inevitably) the top result, it would improve the efficiency of my navigating the site 1000%.
If I could get to the Monk page just by typing Mon-↓-↲, I would no longer want a nested class menu, and there would be no worry about what to do if/when more classes were added.
Is anyone else finding the "open menu on hover" to be less snappy than before? I feel like there's a more perceptible pause in the menu's appearance.
That's because it's fetching the content of the menu you're hovering on. Before the menu items was already in the HTML code, but now it's fetched and filled in when you hover. I'm guessing the reason is that this is a requirement if they want to do stuff as pinning (as Adam mentioned), sorting etc based on your preferences.
What about having something like a Simple View and Advanced View. I know as a DM I need to access a ton of info quickly and efficiently from multiple sources and the old menu was great for that, but I could see a player really liking the new version a lot more as they will likely only be accessing their character sheet most of the time with the occasional book here and there. The List View mentioned on Page 1 would be a better compromise, but is still a little spacey on the DM side of things.
If it's space you're after, and finding things quickly, have a look at my thread here. There might be a trick or two that you find useful. (Personally I don't get going through the menu for accessing stuff quickly, I would just use search.)
My comment is going to be a smaller version of Carlfish's, and like him I will preface this with I do like this improvement and am eager for the second iteration.
Starring a book so it comes up first is a great idea and will help me when I need to jump to what is required, but I don't have a character, I have a world. I would love for the ability to move the My Campaign button to replace the My Characters one since that is 90% of my first clicks.
My second most clicked item is the Search icon. If there is some way we could save me 30 seconds on each search with the predictive text you populate when I'm typing something in and just jumping right to that entry instead of having it fill in the entry word for word, I click search, see the entry as the top result with your small help box (which isn't always helpful) and then having to click the exactly matched entry to go to where I wanted in the first place, THAT would be great!
The number one thing that would improve the site navigation for me has nothing to do with the menus at all. If when I typed the name of a class, spell, ability, monster, etc. into the search bar, selecting the exact match from the drop-down took me directly to the page for that thing, rather than pre-filling the search bar and making me go through the search results page and click on (inevitably) the top result, it would improve the efficiency of my navigating the site 1000%.
Yeah I also always found it odd for the clicked suggestion to only prefill instead of actually instantly searching for it.
Granted, for this to work properly the suggestion list needs to be fast and stay still so it doesn't add new suggestions right as you're about to click, causing you to click the wrong thing as the order changes. That however doesn't seem to be a problem on dndbeyond. You only have to look at how twitter search suggestions work to understand what I mean. They basically have two phases, and the second later phase nudges the first primary account suggestions down so quick users like myself will already be clicking as the whole list suddenly switches positions.
At least it doesn't instantly populate the actual search field as you're typing. Some sites do and it's quite infuriating when you quickly write what your search term, press enter and in between keypresses the site decides to change your writing to something entirely different.
I like the concept for the List View, but I think it would make sense to have each list under Sourcebooks and Adventures be sorted by the release date of the content.
I am happy that I waited a day before giving my opinion because this article covers most of what I had an issue with such as the current source material layout, the loss of directly going to the class page, the images not making sense for some of the buttons (mostly with the buttons under the marketplace section) and the my content being moved. As of right now, here are the only things I can think of that I would like to be changed:
If this is what you guys can come up with for the redesign for navigation, i can't wait to see what the plan is for the homebrew content overhaul.
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Ouch, the horizontal scrolling under Sources is impossible to use with any precision using a macbook trackpad. It scrolls way too quickly, and loops, so it's pretty much random which page you'll end up on.
Otherwise, I'm loving it so far. Big tiles to click on means I can get to what I need faster, and see what I want right away.
Edit: I misunderstood how the scrolling worked with the trackpad. I need to swipe UP/DOWN, but I was trying LEFT/RIGHT (intuition). Still scrolls way too quickly to be practical though!
~ "This is not the end you're looking for"
Yeah, you might have missed the original post in this thread...
It might seem unneeded at this point, but six to eight months from now you will start to see how necessary it is.
If that ends up not being the case, then we'll adjust, but I truly believe it will all make sense.
Not a huge fan of the menu changes on the mobile webpage (I love the mega menus on the desktop version). My biggest complaint is that under spells on the menu for mobile devices is there is no longer an option for “all” spells just individual class spell lists. I am now going to dndbeyond.com/spells to get to the all class spell list and that is a little annoying. I would prefer if the all spells option was still available in the mobile web browser menu.
The omission of "All Spells" was an oversight that is now fixed - you should see that option reappear after cache breaks.
Thanks!
While I'll agree the list view would be helpful, the thing I find in the way is the SIZE of the hover menu now. You most definitely will not slide off of it with your mouse because you have to move your mouse half way down the screen to make it go away.
While I appreciate the attempt to help with an issue, the thing is really quite in the way for me. When I'm working on anything at the top of the page, now you have the problem of sliding off the top of what you are doing, activating a hover that covers half your page. What would be nice perhaps are some themes so that if you like something tight and concise you get something like the old text menu. If you want a nice roomy lane like the new layout, select that theme. Could that be a possibility?
Though not currently a member, seeking admission to the really long and important signature club. Please consider this as a current CV.
Other personalities... Burgee , The Colorless Knight, Fiorello, RW Goodbarrel, Dred, Evrik - Out of the Abyss & Dungeon of the Mad Mage
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Creations are for things you personally create. Collection is for things others have created that you have added to your profile for use.
What about having something like a Simple View and Advanced View. I know as a DM I need to access a ton of info quickly and efficiently from multiple sources and the old menu was great for that, but I could see a player really liking the new version a lot more as they will likely only be accessing their character sheet most of the time with the occasional book here and there. The List View mentioned on Page 1 would be a better compromise, but is still a little spacey on the DM side of things.
I see my issue has been fixed, thank you.
Thank you.
Thanks for the update!
I'm also a bit miffed about the Sources view. And, yes, the list view looks much more accessible.
But I would prefer sorting options or something. I usually search alphabetically and this confuses me.
Check out all my important links here.
May we live in Less Interesting Times
Is anyone else finding the "open menu on hover" to be less snappy than before? I feel like there's a more perceptible pause in the menu's appearance.
Some entirely subjective feedback. For context I am currently involved in three campaigns using DDB; two as a player, one as DM.
The sources menu is a red herring
With one exception — the module I am currently running as DM — the worst way to find what I want on the site is by browsing by source-book. If anything, the way the menu emphasizes the by-book view makes it harder to learn to use the site efficiently because the first way it suggests to navigate is the wrong one. Contrary to what everyone else is saying, I think the sources menu could be done away with entirely (replaced with a single sources link) and that would improve the navigability of the site because of the bigger emphasis that would give the more efficient ways of getting to what you want.
Maybe there's a case to be made for keeping direct links to the Basic Rules, PHB and DMG, but anything more feels like clutter.
(I understand this menu is an important way to communicate to people that there are things they want to buy, but there must be ways of doing this that don't hijack navigation.)
Most often, I want to find my stuff.
The things I absolutely navigate to most whenever I use the site are:
A smart "my stuff" menu that linked to things relevant to me in my currently active campaigns — my character if I'm a player, the adventure if I'm a DM — would immediately become my most-used menu.
For everything else, I use search.
The number one thing that would improve the site navigation for me has nothing to do with the menus at all. If when I typed the name of a class, spell, ability, monster, etc. into the search bar, selecting the exact match from the drop-down took me directly to the page for that thing, rather than pre-filling the search bar and making me go through the search results page and click on (inevitably) the top result, it would improve the efficiency of my navigating the site 1000%.
If I could get to the Monk page just by typing Mon-↓-↲, I would no longer want a nested class menu, and there would be no worry about what to do if/when more classes were added.
That's because it's fetching the content of the menu you're hovering on. Before the menu items was already in the HTML code, but now it's fetched and filled in when you hover. I'm guessing the reason is that this is a requirement if they want to do stuff as pinning (as Adam mentioned), sorting etc based on your preferences.
If it's space you're after, and finding things quickly, have a look at my thread here. There might be a trick or two that you find useful. (Personally I don't get going through the menu for accessing stuff quickly, I would just use search.)
Page Reference: Core Rules to DDB
Page Reference: DDB to PHB
Page Reference: DDB to DMG
Page Reference: DDB to MM
My comment is going to be a smaller version of Carlfish's, and like him I will preface this with I do like this improvement and am eager for the second iteration.
Starring a book so it comes up first is a great idea and will help me when I need to jump to what is required, but I don't have a character, I have a world. I would love for the ability to move the My Campaign button to replace the My Characters one since that is 90% of my first clicks.
My second most clicked item is the Search icon. If there is some way we could save me 30 seconds on each search with the predictive text you populate when I'm typing something in and just jumping right to that entry instead of having it fill in the entry word for word, I click search, see the entry as the top result with your small help box (which isn't always helpful) and then having to click the exactly matched entry to go to where I wanted in the first place, THAT would be great!
Attack: [roll]1d20+[AMOD][/ roll]
Damage: [roll]if([roll:-1:fumble],=1,0,if([roll:-1],<[TARGET],0,if([roll:-1:critical],=1,2{[DAMAGE]}.expand(),[DAMAGE])+[DMOD]))[/ roll]
Yeah I also always found it odd for the clicked suggestion to only prefill instead of actually instantly searching for it.
Granted, for this to work properly the suggestion list needs to be fast and stay still so it doesn't add new suggestions right as you're about to click, causing you to click the wrong thing as the order changes. That however doesn't seem to be a problem on dndbeyond. You only have to look at how twitter search suggestions work to understand what I mean. They basically have two phases, and the second later phase nudges the first primary account suggestions down so quick users like myself will already be clicking as the whole list suddenly switches positions.
At least it doesn't instantly populate the actual search field as you're typing. Some sites do and it's quite infuriating when you quickly write what your search term, press enter and in between keypresses the site decides to change your writing to something entirely different.
I like the concept for the List View, but I think it would make sense to have each list under Sourcebooks and Adventures be sorted by the release date of the content.
This looks like it's fix all the complaints I had with the new layout.