Would a Hexblade archer with Lifedrinker, Thirsting Blade, Eldritch Smite & Improved Pact Weapon make a decent ranged DPS? Adds double Charisma to damage? Max Charisma and Sharpshooter...possible +21 to each shot?
Any other tips for the build, aside from maybe dipping into Bard (for spell slots/Expertise), Paladin (for Sacred Weapon, slots, Smite), or Fighter (Fighting Style - ArcheryAction Surge/Champion)? I guess a Rogue or Sorcerer dip wouldn't hurt either.
Race? Tiefling sounds good, but Variant Human might be just as good if not better; we're going to want several feats. Kobold for Pack Tactics (possible flying Kobold if your DM is willing) or Wood Elf for Elven Accuracy racial?
So final build would be 12 Hexblade, 4 Champion/4 (Shadow) Sorcerer/4 (Conquest?) Paladin? (Pick 2 of the last 3, all have yummy goodies).
Spend enough ASI's to get to 20 Charisma ASAP, Sharpshooter, Crossbow Expert feats a given.
Warcaster wouldn't be horrible, for Concentration checks. Inspiring Leader is always sweet. Mobile for a ranged DPS is nice....until you get Crossbow Expert then you really don't need it so much; IMO Mobile should give +1 to Dex for what it does.
Champion is a terrible subclass. If you're going that far into fighter, consider Eldritch Knight, Battle Master, Samurai or if you're not married to the idea of using a crossbow, Arcane Archer.
Paladin doesn't have much to offer since you already have Hex and Eldritch Smite, unless you really like the idea of smiting undead/fiends.
If you're going to dip into Sorcerer I'd probably go Wild Magic for Tides of Chaos, Storm Sorcery for Tempestuous Magic or Divine Soul for Divine Magic and Favored of the Gods.
I really don't get why you're multiclassing so hard though. 6th-9th level spells are great. I'd go 1 level in Fighter and maybe 1 level in Sorcerer (more slots for Shield and Tempestuous Magic acts like a Disengage of sorts.)
Fighter 2 with Action Surge is very nice. Eldritch Knight doesn't get much until later levels so a dip is dumb. Arcane Archer really only gets 2 special arrows a day. Battle Master seems a horrible choice for a ranged dps; none of the Battle Maneuver maneuvers really do anything for a ranged dps.
Paladins can use their channel divinity to increase their plus To Hit by a ton (see PHB pg 86)....and that meshes well with Sharpshooter's Precise Shot.
Making an archer, if I just wanted a full-fledged caster...sure, going to at least level 17 would be the best. This thread is about an arcane archer/ talking about going full caster is against the idea of the thread.
Eldritch Knight gives more spell slots for Shield. You want to keep Hex up (or whatever other concentration spell you have going) and spending a 5th level slot on a 1st level spell that doesn't scale is incredibly wasteful.
Arcane Archer gets 2 shots per short rest. Grasping Arrow hurts enemies if they move, which is obviously a great thing when you're a ranged attacker. Shadow Arrow reduces an enemy's vision down to 5 feet, which then gives you advantage for Sharpshooter.
Most Battle Master maneuvers add their superiority die to the damage and Precision Strike makes you more accurate.
Channel Divinity: Guided Strike is nice but it's only one attack. Precision Strike gives you four d8's.
Battle Master seems a horrible choice for a ranged dps; none of the Battle Maneuver maneuvers really do anything for a ranged dps.
Only lunging attack, riposte, and sweeping attack are actually limited to melee weapon attacks, so Battle Master is actually an excellent choice for an archer (focusing on DPS, or otherwise).
I actually did the math on this. My hexblade lock with 3 levels of fighter for arcane archer with oathbow and +3 arrows at level 20 does 1d8+12d6+28 damage of hex and curse are applied as well as oathbows perk. I have the dice roll saved lol. The chance to hit is insane. I'll edit the post with it in a sec.
How many +3 arrows do you have? Oathbow is really only good against one target per day. If you don't have it, designing a build on an item you might get is very iffy. If you don't manage to kill your target, you have to wait a week to use the Oathbow's feature again.
Isn't Arcane Archer limited to 2 special arrows per rest? Bet you save it for crits...which happen 5% of the time. If you have a crit fishing build (which you don't because said build usually involves going Champion, but might if you have Elven Accuracy), this isn't horrible. Good for a party that loves taking short rests after every battle (I.E. the party has some other short rest dependent class that also says "Yes, lets hole up in this dungeon for an hour after every fight."
Dipping into Warrior for Battle Master, a short rest mechanic:
Commander's Strike - great if you have a Rogue buddy. Uses up your attack AND bonus action though....so action economy says no.
Disarming Attack - shooting someone to disarm them does nothing, unless you make it drop a shield. If you already hit it once, probably don't need to make it drop a shield. Unless you have meat shields that need a bonus to hit. Situational at best.
Distracting Strike - See Commander's.
Evasive Footwork - Foes shouldn't be getting to melee range, something has gone wrong with party tactics. You aren't moving enough and/or the meat shields in your party suck.
Feinting Attack - Only good if mob is within 5' of you. You DID take Crossbow Expert, right? See Evasive.
Goading Attack - I do NOT want to force mobs to run up to me & attack me, bad choice. I'm a cowardly ranged archer for a reason. This is a prelude to Evasive....
Lunging Attack - Only melee weapons. n/a
Maneuvering Attack - This is a good one if your meat shield is dumb/slow. Situational at best. Better to talk to your meat shield to prevent the situation.
Menacing Attack - This is one of the best ones for an archer. If target fails, it can't move towards you. If target is moving towards you, see Evasive.
Parry - See Evasive.
Precision Attack - You probably have a better "to hit" than anyone else in the party. Pass.
Pushing Attack - Let the Warlock in the party push back mobs. Gun down any mobs that even look like they're heading your way. See Evasive.
Rally - No. Never. Don't even think it.
Riposte - N/A, you shouldn't have a melee weapon in hand.
Sweeping Attack - N/A
Trip Attack - Do not use, except maybe on your very last shot. You don't want your target to be prone when attempting to shoot. If mobs are heading your way, see Evasive.
Before I dive in, I'll let you know that I took your advice and am not taking your replies too seriously. I've snipped up your post to save space and better organize my thoughts.
These ones I agree aren't of much use to an archery-focused battle master - except that their being 7 of them means that the 9 left over (conveniently the same number of maneuvers the character will get if you have enough levels) will all be yours to use as you see fit.
...distracting strike... ...maneuvering attack...
You aren't giving these two enough credit. Both add to your damage, which is good, and then also do something else as a bonus - distracting strike improves the party's damage by helping your less-accurate allies hit, and maneuvering attack can be used to get another party member into appropriate position to help keep the enemies away from you (or get the "squishy" out of trouble should an ambush make your party's back line the front line and vice versa).
...evasive footwork... ...precision attack...
I agree that the planning and playing of the character does likely reduce the usefulness of these two - but even the best plans sometimes fail, so evasive footwork sitting in your toolbox for the rare times you need it isn't a waste, and precision attack can stop one of the rare occasions that you miss from happening at the exact worst possible time (I know I've been in some "all I have to do to save the whole party from death is roll a 3 or better" circumstances before and rolled a 2)
Disarming Attack - shooting someone to disarm them does nothing, unless you make it drop a shield.
Menacing Attack - This is one of the best ones for an archer. If target fails, it can't move towards you. If target is moving towards you, see Evasive.
Pushing Attack - Let the Warlock in the party push back mobs. Gun down any mobs that even look like they're heading your way. See Evasive.
Trip Attack - Do not use, except maybe on your very last shot. You don't want your target to be prone when attempting to shoot.
Of these last four, I'd pick three as the first maneuvers learned (probably skipping disarming attack since "make the bad guy drop the thing so someone else can grab it before the bad guy's turn" is the most situational extra benefit).
Pushing attack can be just as good as menacing attack for keeping enemies away from you, but it also works on targets with high wisdom saving throws or immunity to fear, and if there is some dangerous terrain around it might add even more damage (shoving orcs off bridges, pushing ogres into fires, etc.)
And last, but not least, trip attack. It can be used to knock flying creature to the ground, which might greatly improve the party's overall performance against such creatures (if you've got melee heavy hitters, or if you want any chance that the flying monster doesn't have free access to attack you) - but yeah, you don't want to start your attacks on a round with it (at least not unless you've got crossbow expert and intend to knock it down, stand right next to it, and fire a few more shots at it with advantage).
And with all that said... I'm actually thinking I might just play an archer battle master if I get a chance to play in someone's campaign before some other idea strikes my fancy or I forget about the random cool-sounding idea and do what my friends always expect of me and play a wizard/sorcerer/warlock sort of character.
Dipping into Battle Master means only 3 maneuvers. My build pretty much relies on 12 levels of Hexblade, 4 levels of one class and 4 levels of another.
Distracting Strike: I'm spending my die to help another person hit? I don't make a character that helps people with a sucky build....(this is SO tongue-in-cheek).
Maneuvering attack: If MY character got to move, sure. Letting a meat shield that isn't protecting my buttocks in the first place get a 2nd chance to cover my butt? Maybe, sometimes. Nothing says the mob that moved up on me isn't going to just attack me anyways, just because a meat shield moved up to it.
Planning to fail and trying to cover all the possible ways you or your party might fail is a recipe for disaster. Best defense is a good offense. This is why a weapon +2 is vastly superior to armor +2. The weapon, you'll use every round...multiple times a round. Armor, only if a mob is attacking you....
Disarming Attack is fine and good, IF there's a party member nearby that will get to act before the mob does. Situational. If a party member isn't there to say "I pick up the BBEG's weapon that our archer somehow forced him to drop.", then the BBEG will just pick up the weapon as a free action.
Isn't Arcane Archer limited to 2 special arrows per rest? Bet you save it for crits...which happen 5% of the time.
No. Like I said earlier, Shadow Arrow effectively blinds enemies. You use it on your first shot and if the enemy fails the save, you Action Surge and shoot the other 3 arrows with advantage (+Sharpshooter). And, as a bonus, every other ranged attacker in the party is now also shooting a blind target, and if enemy is a spellcaster you've shut down a lot of their spell options.
There's also Bursting Arrow which is 2d6 force damage to everyone within 10 feet, no save. It's free damage and an inexpensive way to deal with crowds of weak enemies.
Not sure why the 2 per rest is an issue when you're willing to go 2 levels into Paladin for Channel Divinity once per rest.
Arcane Archer is very nice, probably use it over a Paladin.
Warlock is a short rest mechanic class as it is. Might be nice to have something that doesn't rely on short rests to renew, just in case the party can't take a short rest for whatever reason.
Champion is not actually that bad with the right build. I am building a critical-based GWF/Great Weapon Master Barbarian/Fighter. My plan is to get 3 attacks and use Reckless Attack and a high crititcal range to do massive amounts of damage. Reckless Attack makes the -5 to hit not as bad and combined with the improved critical, gives you a nearly 20% the chance to crit on each attack.
With this build, you have 2 options to make it even better:
Use a Greataxe and play as a Half-Orc to get more damage dice on a crit. You can also get Brutal Critical from barbarian to increase that even further.
Get your hands on a Flame Tongue Greatsword. Any critical with it does 8d6 damage. GWF fighting style is also great with the Greatsword because it gives more opportunites to reroll damage.
I have the second build with a strength belt and I can easily pump out close to 200 damage in a single round with just 1 crit/kill and an action surge. And I don't even have my third attack yet.
As for how this could pertain to this concept of an archer:
If you go with the Eldritch Smite, being able to crit more often can make for some brutally nasty turns, especially if you can get advantage on attack rolls and combine it with Elven Accuracy for a nearly 30% crit chance on each attack. If Elven Accuracy doesn't appeal to you, you could play as a Kobold and get pack tactics for the advantage. Or just use Darkness + Devil's Sight. Crossbow Expert for another attack, and Sharpshooter for more range and damage.
The point of this comment is that if you build a character to focus on getting critical hits, the Champion subclass is actually very good. Two of my fighters are Champions (one of which is an archer) and I don't regret the choice at all.
Champion is not actually that bad with the right build. I am building a critical-based GWF/Great Weapon Master Barbarian/Fighter. My plan is to get 3 attacks and use Reckless Attack and a high crititcal range to do massive amounts of damage. Reckless Attack makes the -5 to hit not as bad and combined with the improved critical, gives you a nearly 20% the chance to crit on each attack.
You could make all the same choices with Battle Master instead of Champion though. It really boils down to the value of an extra crit every 20 rolls vs 4d8 to 5d10 superiority dice per rest which you can double on crits and have useful side effects.
Unless you can get at least 2 out of Savage Attacks, Brutal Critical, or a Flame Tongue heavy weapon, I don't see how you can add enough dice to that extra crit to compete with superiority dice. Magic items are up to the DM and by the time you have both Brutal Critical and Improved Critical you're at least 12th level.
Alright, how did I break it down... First, I misquoted the wrong damage roll that I had saved. That one was for a different experiment.
Oathbow and +3 arrows (My lock has 13 arrows) plus bracers of archery.
Damage increases came from Oathbow's sworn enemy (3d6) plus Oathbow's 1d8, Arcane Archer Shot (2d6), Hex Spell (1d6) (That's your 6d6 per shot) plus Eldritch Smite (6d8), Hexblade's Curse (+6), Lifedrinker (+5), Arrow +3 (+3), Bracers of Archery (+2), Improved Pact Weapon (+1) = 7d8 + 6d6 + 17 Damage from bonuses, +5 from Hex Warrior using Cha instead of Str/Dex
So for damage, you'd do 35 - 114 for a single shot so long as you have hexed and cursed the target (A tall order but if we are min maxing, it's what you gotta do.) You get two of these shots per short rest, which you can do without even using action surge for a total of 70 - 228. After that, your damage will drop significantly since you won't have Shots or Smites which brings you down to 1d8 + 4d6 + 22 until hex and curse wears off or if they aren't applied, which will make it 1d8 + 16.
The group I made this character for was suppose to be a boss slayer design and the group focused heavily on getting him prepped for that. He is meant for burst damage on a single target.
His plus to hit is (With all applied) +17 and advantage from sworn.
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Would a Hexblade archer with Lifedrinker, Thirsting Blade, Eldritch Smite & Improved Pact Weapon make a decent ranged DPS? Adds double Charisma to damage? Max Charisma and Sharpshooter...possible +21 to each shot?
Any other tips for the build, aside from maybe dipping into Bard (for spell slots/Expertise), Paladin (for Sacred Weapon, slots, Smite), or Fighter (Fighting Style - ArcheryAction Surge/Champion)? I guess a Rogue or Sorcerer dip wouldn't hurt either.
Race? Tiefling sounds good, but Variant Human might be just as good if not better; we're going to want several feats. Kobold for Pack Tactics (possible flying Kobold if your DM is willing) or Wood Elf for Elven Accuracy racial?
So final build would be 12 Hexblade, 4 Champion/4 (Shadow) Sorcerer/4 (Conquest?) Paladin? (Pick 2 of the last 3, all have yummy goodies).
Spend enough ASI's to get to 20 Charisma ASAP, Sharpshooter, Crossbow Expert feats a given.
Warcaster wouldn't be horrible, for Concentration checks. Inspiring Leader is always sweet. Mobile for a ranged DPS is nice....until you get Crossbow Expert then you really don't need it so much; IMO Mobile should give +1 to Dex for what it does.
Champion is a terrible subclass. If you're going that far into fighter, consider Eldritch Knight, Battle Master, Samurai or if you're not married to the idea of using a crossbow, Arcane Archer.
Paladin doesn't have much to offer since you already have Hex and Eldritch Smite, unless you really like the idea of smiting undead/fiends.
If you're going to dip into Sorcerer I'd probably go Wild Magic for Tides of Chaos, Storm Sorcery for Tempestuous Magic or Divine Soul for Divine Magic and Favored of the Gods.
I really don't get why you're multiclassing so hard though. 6th-9th level spells are great. I'd go 1 level in Fighter and maybe 1 level in Sorcerer (more slots for Shield and Tempestuous Magic acts like a Disengage of sorts.)
Fighter 2 with Action Surge is very nice. Eldritch Knight doesn't get much until later levels so a dip is dumb. Arcane Archer really only gets 2 special arrows a day. Battle Master seems a horrible choice for a ranged dps; none of the Battle Maneuver maneuvers really do anything for a ranged dps.
Paladins can use their channel divinity to increase their plus To Hit by a ton (see PHB pg 86)....and that meshes well with Sharpshooter's Precise Shot.
Making an archer, if I just wanted a full-fledged caster...sure, going to at least level 17 would be the best. This thread is about an arcane archer/ talking about going full caster is against the idea of the thread.
Eldritch Knight gives more spell slots for Shield. You want to keep Hex up (or whatever other concentration spell you have going) and spending a 5th level slot on a 1st level spell that doesn't scale is incredibly wasteful.
Arcane Archer gets 2 shots per short rest. Grasping Arrow hurts enemies if they move, which is obviously a great thing when you're a ranged attacker. Shadow Arrow reduces an enemy's vision down to 5 feet, which then gives you advantage for Sharpshooter.
Most Battle Master maneuvers add their superiority die to the damage and Precision Strike makes you more accurate.
Channel Divinity: Guided Strike is nice but it's only one attack. Precision Strike gives you four d8's.
I actually did the math on this. My hexblade lock with 3 levels of fighter for arcane archer with oathbow and +3 arrows at level 20 does 1d8+12d6+28 damage of hex and curse are applied as well as oathbows perk. I have the dice roll saved lol. The chance to hit is insane. I'll edit the post with it in a sec.
+17 to hit
You only lose if you die. Any time else, there's opportunity for a come back.
How many +3 arrows do you have? Oathbow is really only good against one target per day. If you don't have it, designing a build on an item you might get is very iffy. If you don't manage to kill your target, you have to wait a week to use the Oathbow's feature again.
Isn't Arcane Archer limited to 2 special arrows per rest? Bet you save it for crits...which happen 5% of the time. If you have a crit fishing build (which you don't because said build usually involves going Champion, but might if you have Elven Accuracy), this isn't horrible. Good for a party that loves taking short rests after every battle (I.E. the party has some other short rest dependent class that also says "Yes, lets hole up in this dungeon for an hour after every fight."
+12d6, how?
Dipping into Warrior for Battle Master, a short rest mechanic:
Commander's Strike - great if you have a Rogue buddy. Uses up your attack AND bonus action though....so action economy says no.
Disarming Attack - shooting someone to disarm them does nothing, unless you make it drop a shield. If you already hit it once, probably don't need to make it drop a shield. Unless you have meat shields that need a bonus to hit. Situational at best.
Distracting Strike - See Commander's.
Evasive Footwork - Foes shouldn't be getting to melee range, something has gone wrong with party tactics. You aren't moving enough and/or the meat shields in your party suck.
Feinting Attack - Only good if mob is within 5' of you. You DID take Crossbow Expert, right? See Evasive.
Goading Attack - I do NOT want to force mobs to run up to me & attack me, bad choice. I'm a cowardly ranged archer for a reason. This is a prelude to Evasive....
Lunging Attack - Only melee weapons. n/a
Maneuvering Attack - This is a good one if your meat shield is dumb/slow. Situational at best. Better to talk to your meat shield to prevent the situation.
Menacing Attack - This is one of the best ones for an archer. If target fails, it can't move towards you. If target is moving towards you, see Evasive.
Parry - See Evasive.
Precision Attack - You probably have a better "to hit" than anyone else in the party. Pass.
Pushing Attack - Let the Warlock in the party push back mobs. Gun down any mobs that even look like they're heading your way. See Evasive.
Rally - No. Never. Don't even think it.
Riposte - N/A, you shouldn't have a melee weapon in hand.
Sweeping Attack - N/A
Trip Attack - Do not use, except maybe on your very last shot. You don't want your target to be prone when attempting to shoot. If mobs are heading your way, see Evasive.
Before I dive in, I'll let you know that I took your advice and am not taking your replies too seriously. I've snipped up your post to save space and better organize my thoughts.
These ones I agree aren't of much use to an archery-focused battle master - except that their being 7 of them means that the 9 left over (conveniently the same number of maneuvers the character will get if you have enough levels) will all be yours to use as you see fit.
You aren't giving these two enough credit. Both add to your damage, which is good, and then also do something else as a bonus - distracting strike improves the party's damage by helping your less-accurate allies hit, and maneuvering attack can be used to get another party member into appropriate position to help keep the enemies away from you (or get the "squishy" out of trouble should an ambush make your party's back line the front line and vice versa).Dipping into Battle Master means only 3 maneuvers. My build pretty much relies on 12 levels of Hexblade, 4 levels of one class and 4 levels of another.
Distracting Strike: I'm spending my die to help another person hit? I don't make a character that helps people with a sucky build....(this is SO tongue-in-cheek).
Maneuvering attack: If MY character got to move, sure. Letting a meat shield that isn't protecting my buttocks in the first place get a 2nd chance to cover my butt? Maybe, sometimes. Nothing says the mob that moved up on me isn't going to just attack me anyways, just because a meat shield moved up to it.
Planning to fail and trying to cover all the possible ways you or your party might fail is a recipe for disaster. Best defense is a good offense. This is why a weapon +2 is vastly superior to armor +2. The weapon, you'll use every round...multiple times a round. Armor, only if a mob is attacking you....
Disarming Attack is fine and good, IF there's a party member nearby that will get to act before the mob does. Situational. If a party member isn't there to say "I pick up the BBEG's weapon that our archer somehow forced him to drop.", then the BBEG will just pick up the weapon as a free action.
No, you're spending your die so you deal more damage... the other thing that happens is the gravy, not the biscuit.
No. Like I said earlier, Shadow Arrow effectively blinds enemies. You use it on your first shot and if the enemy fails the save, you Action Surge and shoot the other 3 arrows with advantage (+Sharpshooter). And, as a bonus, every other ranged attacker in the party is now also shooting a blind target, and if enemy is a spellcaster you've shut down a lot of their spell options.
There's also Bursting Arrow which is 2d6 force damage to everyone within 10 feet, no save. It's free damage and an inexpensive way to deal with crowds of weak enemies.
Not sure why the 2 per rest is an issue when you're willing to go 2 levels into Paladin for Channel Divinity once per rest.
Shadow Arrow MIGHT blind enemies...
I'm not very keen on using 4 levels of Paladin tbh. Probably my least favorite of the options.
And your Sharpshooter attacks MIGHT hit, and enemies MIGHT fail their saving throws against your spells.
Arcane Archer is very nice, probably use it over a Paladin.
Warlock is a short rest mechanic class as it is. Might be nice to have something that doesn't rely on short rests to renew, just in case the party can't take a short rest for whatever reason.
I feel like you're seriously underestimating some of the advice being offered here
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
I have the second build with a strength belt and I can easily pump out close to 200 damage in a single round with just 1 crit/kill and an action surge. And I don't even have my third attack yet.
As for how this could pertain to this concept of an archer:
If you go with the Eldritch Smite, being able to crit more often can make for some brutally nasty turns, especially if you can get advantage on attack rolls and combine it with Elven Accuracy for a nearly 30% crit chance on each attack. If Elven Accuracy doesn't appeal to you, you could play as a Kobold and get pack tactics for the advantage. Or just use Darkness + Devil's Sight. Crossbow Expert for another attack, and Sharpshooter for more range and damage.
The point of this comment is that if you build a character to focus on getting critical hits, the Champion subclass is actually very good. Two of my fighters are Champions (one of which is an archer) and I don't regret the choice at all.
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Alright, how did I break it down... First, I misquoted the wrong damage roll that I had saved. That one was for a different experiment.
Oathbow and +3 arrows (My lock has 13 arrows) plus bracers of archery.
Damage increases came from Oathbow's sworn enemy (3d6) plus Oathbow's 1d8, Arcane Archer Shot (2d6), Hex Spell (1d6) (That's your 6d6 per shot) plus Eldritch Smite (6d8), Hexblade's Curse (+6), Lifedrinker (+5), Arrow +3 (+3), Bracers of Archery (+2), Improved Pact Weapon (+1) = 7d8 + 6d6 + 17 Damage from bonuses, +5 from Hex Warrior using Cha instead of Str/Dex
So for damage, you'd do 35 - 114 for a single shot so long as you have hexed and cursed the target (A tall order but if we are min maxing, it's what you gotta do.) You get two of these shots per short rest, which you can do without even using action surge for a total of 70 - 228. After that, your damage will drop significantly since you won't have Shots or Smites which brings you down to 1d8 + 4d6 + 22 until hex and curse wears off or if they aren't applied, which will make it 1d8 + 16.
The group I made this character for was suppose to be a boss slayer design and the group focused heavily on getting him prepped for that. He is meant for burst damage on a single target.
His plus to hit is (With all applied) +17 and advantage from sworn.
You only lose if you die. Any time else, there's opportunity for a come back.