When I look at characters I'm often trying to figure out what they're capable of. How do their abilities work together to maximize their potency and versatility. How can they utilize the action economy. A rogue for instance can make his attack from hiding in order to get a Sneak Attack and Hide again as a Bonus Action to help defend until the next turn and make that next turn more potent.
There's potential in your Action, Bonus Action, and Reaction, Movement, and sometimes elsewhere.
I don't see this in Wizard's. Sometimes you might squeeze a bit out of a Bonus Action, but it usually seems to take away from your Action. For instance you might Misty Step to escape a grapple and avoid damage, simultaneously standing from prone, and moving 30 feet away from your foe, but now you can't cast that Fireball, so you loose a Ray of Frost instead...
On a Cleric I might summon a Spiritual Weapon to give me use of that Bonus Action each Round. On a Druid I can achieve that with Call Lightning. The only spell I could find that gives use of the Bonus Action in this way that isn't granting movement (Expeditious Retreat) is Storm Sphere that's a fourth level spell!
Are Wizards consistently not using their full action economy?
I started thinking about this because of a discussion about Dragon's Breath with Find Familiar in Darkness. I was thinking it similar to Spiritual Weapon, only freeing up that Bonus Action for added potential... "Potential for what?" I thought.
If you're looking for spells, look at Flaming Sphere, Animate Object and Bigby's Hand. They have downsides flaming sphere is a very small fire AoE and movement is limited to ground but the movement, and running it into someone, is a bonus action. Animate Object and Bigby's Hand are both good spells but they are 5th level.
Darkness might dispel flaming sphere RAW, but since light is not the primary effect of flaming sphere, I would say RAI is that just the light is suppressed and the fire remains.
Unless it gives a specific light radius, I would say it wouldn't give off enough light for darkness to dispel it. This is due to the fact that it doesn't light an area of the darkness, therefore leaving the characters in the area still blinded.
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Flaming Orb is a really good spell, and most monsters won't be able to counter it with Darkness. It does tend to be overshadowed by Fireball before long.
Dragon's Breath can be cast on your familiar, who can then use its breath weapon as an action each turn (legal, since it's a simple action and not the Attack action).
Don't forget spells like Maximilian's Earthen Grasp with ongoing actions can be used alongside bonus action spells on subsequent turns.
Regardless, bonus actions are not strictly necessary to make a class good. Wizards have enough complexity as it is without needing to constantly bog their turn down with multiple actions.
I hear about how over powered options like Dragon's Breath Familiars are, but that's it. That's your concentration. It may not take your action, but it may as well take your Bonus Action. Your concentration is the real cost.
My thought when I started this thread was, I want to use a bat familiar and use my action to look through it's eyes and Counterspell any threats to the party in the darkness while still stating effective for offence. I dont think there's an option for that beyond multiclassing. I could use Dragon's Breathe, but I feel like I'd be blind on the next turn when someone killed the suddenly threatening familiar. Storm Sphere is probably the best option.
If that was your goal then you've come to the correct conclusion that it isn't a good use of your actions. If you want to see through magical darkness then play a warlock (and get a better familiar, like an Imp that can also see through magical darkness) or shadow sorcerer. Find Familiar is a first level spell, it opens up some fun roleplay opportunities but is not intended to be significantly more powerful than other first level spells. Maybe you could work with your DM to homebrew a find greater familiar at 4th level or so that gives you more of what you want .
So my Bladesinger Wizard uses an upcast concentration spell Shadow Blade as a throw weapon with an extra attack. A typical round goes Attack (throw), Bonus Action reform the blade, Attack (throw). That leaves your other hand open to cast reaction spells and to cast on alternating rounds where your blade doesn't start in your hand.
So my Bladesinger Wizard uses an upcast concentration spell Shadow Blade as a throw weapon with an extra attack. A typical round goes Attack (throw), Bonus Action reform the blade, Attack (throw). That leaves your other hand open to cast reaction spells and to cast on alternating rounds where your blade doesn't start in your hand.
Flaming Sphere or Cloud Kill are both possibilities. You could also command creatures, like if you have summoned a zombie or something for instance that can add a bit of extra damage or utility.
I feel like in general though, Wizard has the potential to dump so much damage with its spells that you dont even have to worry about maximizing your action economy too much.
You could also command creatures, like if you have summoned a zombie or something for instance that can add a bit of extra damage or utility.
Was just gonna mention that. As a Necromancer, my bonus action is almost always used to command my skeleton posse. Not because they need commands every round, but to adapt to the current combat situation. Of course, a solid argument could be made that that shouldn't be necessary (by RAW it is, but maybe it shouldn't be), especially considering how Druid summoning spells don't require any sort of action to "command" the minions. Given how communication is not restricted to any sort of Action (you can shout warnings on someone else's turn, interrupt someone's soliloquy w/o using up your reaction, etc.), it feels out of place to have to use a bonus action to give mental commands to creatures you control. Maybe it's to balance out the fact that they're "permanent". It still kinda sucks when you roll well for initiative for them, since they lose their first turn doing nothing, having received no commands. Anyway, that's another discussion. Point is, as a Necromancer, I'd love to have my bonus action freed up more often, but I can certainly see how non-Necromancers have the opposite problem.
My thought when I started this thread was, I want to use a bat familiar and use my action to look through it's eyes and Counterspell any threats to the party in the darkness while still stating effective for offence. I dont think there's an option for that beyond multiclassing. I could use Dragon's Breathe, but I feel like I'd be blind on the next turn when someone killed the suddenly threatening familiar. Storm Sphere is probably the best option.
Might be worth noting you do not require sight to cast Counterspell. Very few spells are somatic only and most have verbal components. Even when completely blind if you hear an enemy mumbling the arcane words you can still Counterspell it.
You don't need sight for Dispel Magic either.
The biggest reason why there is less "bonus action" stuff for wizards is largely because what they can do with their actions are far more than what most other classes can do. By 5th level the sword swingers can do 1 to 4 attacks, depending on class and weapon choice by using up both action and bonus action but as a Wizard you can use just your action to Fireball a dozen enemies at once and almost-guaranteeing some damage. The best a Fighter can do with a single Action is attack 4 enemies. The best a Wizard can do with an action is obliterate an entire town.
So, yeah other classes get more use of bonus actions. But as a wizard you get more variety and oomph out of your actions than they can ever dream. Fair trade, I say.
Unfortunately Cyb3rM1nd that comparison is set in the time span of a single turn. Said Fighter gets to use his multiple actions/attack all day every day. Our Wizards on the otherhand basically shoot their limited load and find it very difficult to continue delivering said awesomeness ... which is an issue in a series of encounters or protracted battle.
Apart from that coveted Fireball I always feel like using my whole turn to cast a spell leaves me ineffective.
After pressing through the muck and grime of the swamp to reach the tower and encountering every minion between here and Ashburn the party reaches their quary. The dragon waits quietly as they approach, he's been expecting them. The dragon stands and steps to the side to reveal his sister has arrived to aid him.
The Wizard Jenkins shows no sign of fear on discovering the odds so distinctly shifted. He attempts to banish the superfluous monster, gripping his purple sphere he focuses his power on the sister. Charisma save: *rattle* 3. She fails and chooses to succeed instead using her legendary resistance.
Joe?
Joe attempts to rip off the first dragon's head with his bare hands and beat it to death with its own skull. *rattle*
When I look at characters I'm often trying to figure out what they're capable of. How do their abilities work together to maximize their potency and versatility. How can they utilize the action economy. A rogue for instance can make his attack from hiding in order to get a Sneak Attack and Hide again as a Bonus Action to help defend until the next turn and make that next turn more potent.
There's potential in your Action, Bonus Action, and Reaction, Movement, and sometimes elsewhere.
I don't see this in Wizard's. Sometimes you might squeeze a bit out of a Bonus Action, but it usually seems to take away from your Action. For instance you might Misty Step to escape a grapple and avoid damage, simultaneously standing from prone, and moving 30 feet away from your foe, but now you can't cast that Fireball, so you loose a Ray of Frost instead...
On a Cleric I might summon a Spiritual Weapon to give me use of that Bonus Action each Round. On a Druid I can achieve that with Call Lightning. The only spell I could find that gives use of the Bonus Action in this way that isn't granting movement (Expeditious Retreat) is Storm Sphere that's a fourth level spell!
Are Wizards consistently not using their full action economy?
Extended Signature
I started thinking about this because of a discussion about Dragon's Breath with Find Familiar in Darkness. I was thinking it similar to Spiritual Weapon, only freeing up that Bonus Action for added potential... "Potential for what?" I thought.
Extended Signature
If you're looking for spells, look at Flaming Sphere, Animate Object and Bigby's Hand. They have downsides flaming sphere is a very small fire AoE and movement is limited to ground but the movement, and running it into someone, is a bonus action. Animate Object and Bigby's Hand are both good spells but they are 5th level.
Flaming sphere fits the criteria, a big (unintentional) downfall is that it sheds light, and so is dispelled by magical Darkness.
I've only known one Wizard to cast it in 5th edition, but it seems like a very solid choice in most situations.
Extended Signature
Darkness might dispel flaming sphere RAW, but since light is not the primary effect of flaming sphere, I would say RAI is that just the light is suppressed and the fire remains.
Since Heat Metal says the metal item "glows red-hot", does that mean darkness would dispel it too?
EDIT: I moved the rest of my discussion over to the Darkness thread since I'm digressing from the purpose of this thread.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Unless it gives a specific light radius, I would say it wouldn't give off enough light for darkness to dispel it. This is due to the fact that it doesn't light an area of the darkness, therefore leaving the characters in the area still blinded.
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Flaming Orb is a really good spell, and most monsters won't be able to counter it with Darkness. It does tend to be overshadowed by Fireball before long.
Dragon's Breath can be cast on your familiar, who can then use its breath weapon as an action each turn (legal, since it's a simple action and not the Attack action).
Don't forget spells like Maximilian's Earthen Grasp with ongoing actions can be used alongside bonus action spells on subsequent turns.
Regardless, bonus actions are not strictly necessary to make a class good. Wizards have enough complexity as it is without needing to constantly bog their turn down with multiple actions.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
Its not the monsters who I'd think would dispell the Flaming Sphere, but the party Warlock.
It's unfortunate that every one of these require concentration too. Dragon's Breath, Darkness, Flaming Sphere, Animate Objects, Arcane Hand, and Maximilian's Earthen Grasp. Expeditious Retreat and Storm Sphere too. Many of these effects could overlap if they weren't all mutually exclusive. Call Lightning and Heat Metal aren't on the Wizard spell list, but they're concentration too.
I hear about how over powered options like Dragon's Breath Familiars are, but that's it. That's your concentration. It may not take your action, but it may as well take your Bonus Action. Your concentration is the real cost.
Extended Signature
My thought when I started this thread was, I want to use a bat familiar and use my action to look through it's eyes and Counterspell any threats to the party in the darkness while still stating effective for offence. I dont think there's an option for that beyond multiclassing. I could use Dragon's Breathe, but I feel like I'd be blind on the next turn when someone killed the suddenly threatening familiar. Storm Sphere is probably the best option.
Extended Signature
If that was your goal then you've come to the correct conclusion that it isn't a good use of your actions. If you want to see through magical darkness then play a warlock (and get a better familiar, like an Imp that can also see through magical darkness) or shadow sorcerer. Find Familiar is a first level spell, it opens up some fun roleplay opportunities but is not intended to be significantly more powerful than other first level spells. Maybe you could work with your DM to homebrew a find greater familiar at 4th level or so that gives you more of what you want .
So my Bladesinger Wizard uses an upcast concentration spell Shadow Blade as a throw weapon with an extra attack. A typical round goes Attack (throw), Bonus Action reform the blade, Attack (throw). That leaves your other hand open to cast reaction spells and to cast on alternating rounds where your blade doesn't start in your hand.
I really like the imagery of this.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Flaming Sphere or Cloud Kill are both possibilities. You could also command creatures, like if you have summoned a zombie or something for instance that can add a bit of extra damage or utility.
I feel like in general though, Wizard has the potential to dump so much damage with its spells that you dont even have to worry about maximizing your action economy too much.
Was just gonna mention that. As a Necromancer, my bonus action is almost always used to command my skeleton posse. Not because they need commands every round, but to adapt to the current combat situation. Of course, a solid argument could be made that that shouldn't be necessary (by RAW it is, but maybe it shouldn't be), especially considering how Druid summoning spells don't require any sort of action to "command" the minions. Given how communication is not restricted to any sort of Action (you can shout warnings on someone else's turn, interrupt someone's soliloquy w/o using up your reaction, etc.), it feels out of place to have to use a bonus action to give mental commands to creatures you control. Maybe it's to balance out the fact that they're "permanent". It still kinda sucks when you roll well for initiative for them, since they lose their first turn doing nothing, having received no commands. Anyway, that's another discussion. Point is, as a Necromancer, I'd love to have my bonus action freed up more often, but I can certainly see how non-Necromancers have the opposite problem.
Rogue example : Really really KILL one thing.
Wizard example : simply kill a bunch of stuff.
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Might be worth noting you do not require sight to cast Counterspell. Very few spells are somatic only and most have verbal components. Even when completely blind if you hear an enemy mumbling the arcane words you can still Counterspell it.
You don't need sight for Dispel Magic either.
The biggest reason why there is less "bonus action" stuff for wizards is largely because what they can do with their actions are far more than what most other classes can do. By 5th level the sword swingers can do 1 to 4 attacks, depending on class and weapon choice by using up both action and bonus action but as a Wizard you can use just your action to Fireball a dozen enemies at once and almost-guaranteeing some damage. The best a Fighter can do with a single Action is attack 4 enemies. The best a Wizard can do with an action is obliterate an entire town.
So, yeah other classes get more use of bonus actions. But as a wizard you get more variety and oomph out of your actions than they can ever dream. Fair trade, I say.
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Unfortunately Cyb3rM1nd that comparison is set in the time span of a single turn. Said Fighter gets to use his multiple actions/attack all day every day. Our Wizards on the otherhand basically shoot their limited load and find it very difficult to continue delivering said awesomeness ... which is an issue in a series of encounters or protracted battle.
Apart from that coveted Fireball I always feel like using my whole turn to cast a spell leaves me ineffective.
Extended Signature
Counterspell doesn't require sight? Counterspell doesnt require sight! Revelation appreciated. That makes things a whole world different suddenly.
Extended Signature