To me, this class has a lot going for it that make it seem rather strong. Hitting saving throws at level 3 feels strong and competes with Lore's Cutting Words.
Unfailing Inspiration seems extremely strong, especially at level 6 when bards regain their inspiration dice on a short rest. I can see a party full of SS/GWM fighters bringing this bard to abuse +1d8 to ALL of their attack rolls, ability checks and saving throws until they succeed, then easily getting another to repeat the process.
Maybe I'm overreacting, but it feels a bit overpowered.
EDIT: misread what Unfailing Inspiration did, edited to reflect this.
It is quite strong; though I'd hazard the strength is appropriately balanced to fully-levelling a bard.
Imposing a penalty to saving throws (specifically) is absolutely a fair trade compared to a Lore Bard's "Cutting Words"...and as a bonus action!
At high levels, this greatly enhances the chance of making that one big spell hurt (Disintegrate, anyone?)
After all...a class that levels from start to finish should be powerful, right?
It also aids those pesky multiple-saving throw spells..."Contagion", "Flesh to Stone", "Phantasmal Killer" and a few others come to mind.
Making Bardic Inspiration more appealing to use for your party, and not actually changing their effect, is decent...and a capstone that spreads the good fortune is also neat.
First off; they removed the multiple castings of the "Calm Emotions" spell.
Instead, they added a skill that lets the bard treat any roll of 9 or lower as a 10, for Persuasion & Deception checks.
That's...pretty damn awesome, being a bard and all.
The took "Universal Speech" and pushed it up to 6th level, I believe, and made it useable once per long rest, and able to use it again by burning a spell slot.
"Undeniable Logic" was cut in half; but you are still able to impose a penalty to an enemy's saving throws equal to a roll on your Bardic Inspiration die...as a bonus action.
You can no longer, however, psyche your teammate back into consciousness.
The higher level allows allies to keep their Inspiration if they use it and still fail...which means there's more reasons to use them without having to be careful.
The capstone lets the bard use their reaction when they see an ally succeed with Inspiration, to inspire another ally within 30ft at no cost.
They can do this a number of times equal to their Charisma modifier per long rest.
First off; they removed the multiple castings of the "Calm Emotions" spell.
Instead, they added a skill that lets the bard treat any roll of 9 or lower as a 10, for Persuasion & Deception checks.
That's...pretty damn awesome, being a bard and all.
The took "Universal Speech" and pushed it up to 6th level, I believe, and made it useable once per long rest, and able to use it again by burning a spell slot.
"Undeniable Logic" was cut in half; but you are still able to impose a penalty to an enemy's saving throws equal to a roll on your Bardic Inspiration die...as a bonus action.
You can no longer, however, psyche your teammate back into consciousness.
The higher level allows allies to keep their Inspiration if they use it and still fail...which means there's more reasons to use them without having to be careful.
The capstone lets the bard use their reaction when they see an ally succeed with Inspiration, to inspire another ally within 30ft at no cost.
They can do this a number of times equal to their Charisma modifier per long rest.
It's...so good.
Damn, I really liked the Calm Emotions ability. Reliable Talent for social skills does seem very appropriate for bards, though.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Losing the ability to magically avoid fights and remove charm several times per day is a serious loss. However, gaining a minimum persuasion/deception roll of 17 at level 3 (assuming +3 ability score with expertise) and a minimum of 20 at level 5 (+4 ability score w expertise) is potentially amazing. It will be interesting to see how DMs handle this as automatically "succeeding" at every social interaction from level 5 on seems problematic. A changeling college of eloquence bard with the actor feat seems more than a little ridiculous as an infiltrator. Why beat the BBEG when you can simply become them? The only thing keeping me from saying silver tongue is busted is the fact that the "win conditions" for social interactions are entirely within DM control so social interactions are easier for a DM to influence without the need to fudge die rolls. It may also be a good thing from a story telling perspective that the class encourages non-combat solutions to problems that would likely otherwise be met with the stabby stab approach.
Being able to manipulate spell saves is great and the modifications from UA are useful for players. Access at level 3 rather than level 6 and removing the need for the enemy to fail a save are both awesome. Losing the damage dealt in the UA version is a totally fair trade for losing the need for the enemy to fail a save. As the inspiration die gets bigger unsettling words also has an increasing chance of being more impactful than the disadvantage imposed in the UA version. While it is possible to psych out the enemy with a bonus action then hit them with a save or suck spell on the same turn I love that the save debuff mechanic encourages teamwork in the form of bards setting up other casters for power plays on their turns.
Losing the ability to heal with words using inspiration is a bummer and a significant nerf, but much less of a problem given that bards already have access to the spell healing word.
This class is also the answer to every meme about bardic inspiration being useless. At level 6 your buddies get to keep using inspiration till it works (or for the next 10 minutes) so the only way it isn't impactful is if the player is rolling hot anyway and at level 14 you get to infect your buddies with inspiration on a success so it's probably going to be useful even if the roll would have succeeded without inspiration.
Bottom line; college of eloquence looks really fun and the changes they made seem well balanced (presuming DMs are able to handle having an unstoppable social skills juggernaut in the party).
The question is how it stacks up against lore bard with the 3 extra skills, the extra magical secrets and being able to inspire yourself as a capstone.
While having a huge minimum roll so early may seem powerful, I think it honestly highlights a misuse of the persuasion skill up to now. I don't mean to say that everyone 'is playing wrong' but there are somethings that a character with motivations just WOULDN'T consider. There are some obvious ones, like a paladin on a holy quest wouldn't give their sacred relic to you (a stranger) just because you can talk well.. but there are others that shouldn't be rolls in the first place. There are plenty of npc interactions that shouldn't feature as many rolls as they do at various tables; sometimes the NPC is delivering quest and plot hooks and that shouldn't be derailed because of a player demanding to roll some dice.
Deception is a bit easier to gauge, as it should be used any time the player is being dishonest, and effectively resolves in a clear fashion: if you pass a deception check your dishonesty is undetected. Passing a persuasion check is less clear-cut, or at least in my opinion SHOULD be less clear cut. Succeeding on a persuasion check doesn't mean you automatically get everything you ever wanted. The NPC has motivations and needs too. Most dm's wouldn't let you roll a persuasion to have a shopkeeper give you that super fancy Magic Sword for free, but they might agree to a REASONABLE discount of 10% or so off their asking price. Or maybe succeeding on the persuasion check will prompt the shopkeeper to offer a quest to get the sword for free. It doesn't need to mean you 'win' the encounter.
There's some cognitive dissonance here. Yes, the minimum is 10, but it only increases the average roll to about two points higher than normal. So while it prevents a catastrophic failure, it is, at best, equivalent to providing advantage on a check. Yes, a 3rd-level Eloquence Bard would only ever roll a minimum of 17 on their roll, while a lore bard might roll an 8 minimum. However, if the lore bard uses cutting words, an OPPOSED roll will still likely succeed. A standard guard would have an insight roll of around 10-11, and an average cutting words roll would reduce that by 3-4. So, on average, a guard would roll a 7 opposing your 8. Meanwhile, if you both roll an 11, you both get an 18, and if the guard rolls a nat 20, the lore bard can counter it, while the eloquence bard is sunk.
Also, consider that the eloquence ability doesn't improve as the player gains levels. Again, yes, your minimum roll goes up, but so does the lore bard's, and theirs increases more dramatically. By 20th level, your minimum roll is 27, which is... wow. But theirs is an 18, which is still respectable. Further, the lore bard's cutting words and peerless skill abilities mean that their ability continues to grow. Even with a 1 on the base roll, the lore bard has an 18. Add to that an average roll on the peerless skill and cutting words rolls, and you have a 6-7 improvement to your 18 (24-25), and can nerf your opponent's roll by an additional 6-7, functionally increasing your roll by that amount. So, in the end, you're looking at an 18 minimum, which wins most conflicts, and if you're about to lose, you can functionally increase it to a 31 on average. Meanwhile, again, the eloquence bard is boned. And, again, with average rolls, the eloquence bard has a 28, and the lore bard can achieve a 40. And with peak rolls, an eloquence bard gets a 37, and the lore bard functionally achieves a 51.
The eloquence bard's save debuff is incredible at low levels, and scales down a bit as they grow. Lore bard gets more significant, especially as you can use it to augment counterspells and the like. The things that improve the quality of the inspiration roll are pretty good, but then, so is additional magical secrets. All-in, I think Lore Bard remains the King of Colleges.
I just got the book (the physical one) so this is my take:
The subclass as a whole is pretty well balanced. This is definitely one of the more powerful bard subclasses, up there with College of Lore. Silver tongue is great, but it won’t mess up the game much. I mean, beards are getting crazy high persuasion and deception rolls anyway. Unsettling words is pretty good, but not OP. Unfailing Inspiration is incredible, but not broken. Considering some of the other bard features at 6th level, this is one of the more powerful, but not too much. Universal speech is good, but doesn’t make the subclass more powerful. Infectious Inspiration is far and away the best feature (as it should be, at level 14). It basically gives you CHA extra uses of inspiration that can only be used when someone succeeds on a check using inspiration. That’s really good but still not broken.
Overall, this is an incredible subclass, but I wouldn’t say it’s broken.
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With Reliable Talent (min 10) and a +10 (+4 for Cha and + 6 for Expertise), the average roll will be average 22.75. But this is NOT how you would equate this skill roll because it’s not a normal variance.
Think of it this way:
If you roll a 1-10, the result will be 20. That’s 50% of the time.
If you roll 11-14, the result will be 21-24. That’s 20% of the time.
Which means to beat a 25 DC skill check, it’ll still only happen 30% of the time.
I love auto-successes by the way - as a DM I make social interactions more about reasonable-ness and less about “dominate person” mechanics. So success has never ruined a great interaction, only added depth and more interaction.
IMO it is *neither* balanced, nor busted (depending on terms). When I hear a class is “balanced” I.take that to mean it is middling. Not terrible, nor great. Just kind of meh...
The Eloquence Bard is (no doubt), now the most powerful Bard. But does that de facto make it “OP”? No. Whenever something strong is released, players like me are always happy, but the paragons of roll-play virtue loudly complain how “busted” it is. But if they nerf a class into oblivion, those who like to optimize for combat complain (Oath is Glory) and the virtuous ones say “OMG it’s so wonderfully balanced”
The Eloquence Bard inspired me to play a Bard for the first time. I start level 2 next session so I’m not there yet. But here’s what I like about it.
Conceptually, I like that their specialty is being eloquent speakers. And mechanically I LOVE that you get to make “save or suck” spells hit more often. I always want to pick the single target saving throw spells, but then I’m torn because when I burn a spell slot and literally nothing happens... I end up wanting to cry over a tub of ice cream.
So I end up going heavier on attack and AOE spells, which...isn’t the Bard’s forte. Like holy crap, are there ANY Bard attack spells? The Bard has saving throw spells coming out the wazoo, and now at least one Bard subclass can make “save or suck” spells much more viable.
I've been playing a CoE bard for a few sessions now and have found it to be quite powerful but far from broken when compared to other classes. Yes, I am a diplomacy cannon. I can literally charm the pants off someone (and have in the process of stealing a ship and the captain's identity).
The power of this class has a lot of variability based on the DM, much like illusion spells it's only as powerful as the DM's buy-in. Their purely mechanical abilities like the persistent/bouncing inspirations and reducing spell saves are great and very strong, but far from broken.
For DM's with CoE bards in their campaigns, remember that a high persuasion check doesn't mean the player gets everything they want, just that the NPCs view their suggestions in a favorable light. A king would never just hand the kingdom over to the bars because they got a 30+ on their roll, but they might laugh it off as a joke instead of ordering the guards to execute them. Persuasion is used to influence others and nudge them in a favorable direction, not dominate them.
Persuasion is used to influence others and nudge them in a favorable direction, not dominate them.
Unless you take Infernal Calling as one of your 10th level magical secrets spells like I did. My CoE changeling bard is known as the Devil Charmer, and revels in adding True Names to her little black book.
Persuasion is used to influence others and nudge them in a favorable direction, not dominate them.
Unless you take Infernal Calling as one of your 10th level magical secrets spells like I did. My CoE changeling bard is known as the Devil Charmer, and revels in adding True Names to her little black book.
True but that is within the parameters of the spell, I was mostly speaking as a general rule. Though thanks for pointing out the spell, might take it with my CoE bard. Looks fun.
I just started playing a Bard in a Theros campaign and am chomping at the bit to reach 3rd level to dive into the College of Eloquence. As a variant human, I took the Magic Initiate Feat (Cleric) to get Guidance (stacks with Bardic Inspiration) and Bless (both have already payed dividends).
Going to really dive in hard on the Persuasion / Deception portion of the character. At first level, CHA 16, I'm already getting a +5 to those skills (and adding in a 1d4 from Guidance). At 3rd level... With expertise and Silver Tongue... the lowest possible roll for Persuasion / Deception will be a 17.
In a role-play heavy campaign, this character can be absolutely bonkers! But, I wouldn't consider it broken. Just really good at having folks see things from their point of view. :) Although, it could possibly give the DM some fits, but I'm sure they will be able to manage, lol. I recorded my character build if anyone is interested: D&D College of Eloquence Bard 5E Build
We'll see how things go in Theros, but this is possibly my new favorite Bard college!
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To me, this class has a lot going for it that make it seem rather strong. Hitting saving throws at level 3 feels strong and competes with Lore's Cutting Words.
Unfailing Inspiration seems extremely strong, especially at level 6 when bards regain their inspiration dice on a short rest. I can see a party full of SS/GWM fighters bringing this bard to abuse +1d8 to ALL of their attack rolls, ability checks and saving throws until they succeed, then easily getting another to repeat the process.
Maybe I'm overreacting, but it feels a bit overpowered.
EDIT: misread what Unfailing Inspiration did, edited to reflect this.
Are we talking about the UA version or do you have the Theros book already?
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
It is quite strong; though I'd hazard the strength is appropriately balanced to fully-levelling a bard.
Imposing a penalty to saving throws (specifically) is absolutely a fair trade compared to a Lore Bard's "Cutting Words"...and as a bonus action!
At high levels, this greatly enhances the chance of making that one big spell hurt (Disintegrate, anyone?)
After all...a class that levels from start to finish should be powerful, right?
It also aids those pesky multiple-saving throw spells..."Contagion", "Flesh to Stone", "Phantasmal Killer" and a few others come to mind.
Making Bardic Inspiration more appealing to use for your party, and not actually changing their effect, is decent...and a capstone that spreads the good fortune is also neat.
This is the one in Mythic Odysseys of Theros.
Ahh, ok. Don't have that yet.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Is it different than the UA version? https://media.wizards.com/2019/dnd/downloads/UA-EloquentHeroics.pdf
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Somewhat.
First off; they removed the multiple castings of the "Calm Emotions" spell.
Instead, they added a skill that lets the bard treat any roll of 9 or lower as a 10, for Persuasion & Deception checks.
That's...pretty damn awesome, being a bard and all.
The took "Universal Speech" and pushed it up to 6th level, I believe, and made it useable once per long rest, and able to use it again by burning a spell slot.
"Undeniable Logic" was cut in half; but you are still able to impose a penalty to an enemy's saving throws equal to a roll on your Bardic Inspiration die...as a bonus action.
You can no longer, however, psyche your teammate back into consciousness.
The higher level allows allies to keep their Inspiration if they use it and still fail...which means there's more reasons to use them without having to be careful.
The capstone lets the bard use their reaction when they see an ally succeed with Inspiration, to inspire another ally within 30ft at no cost.
They can do this a number of times equal to their Charisma modifier per long rest.
It's...so good.
Damn, I really liked the Calm Emotions ability. Reliable Talent for social skills does seem very appropriate for bards, though.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Wow, lotsa changes. Thank you!
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Losing the ability to magically avoid fights and remove charm several times per day is a serious loss. However, gaining a minimum persuasion/deception roll of 17 at level 3 (assuming +3 ability score with expertise) and a minimum of 20 at level 5 (+4 ability score w expertise) is potentially amazing. It will be interesting to see how DMs handle this as automatically "succeeding" at every social interaction from level 5 on seems problematic. A changeling college of eloquence bard with the actor feat seems more than a little ridiculous as an infiltrator. Why beat the BBEG when you can simply become them? The only thing keeping me from saying silver tongue is busted is the fact that the "win conditions" for social interactions are entirely within DM control so social interactions are easier for a DM to influence without the need to fudge die rolls. It may also be a good thing from a story telling perspective that the class encourages non-combat solutions to problems that would likely otherwise be met with the stabby stab approach.
Being able to manipulate spell saves is great and the modifications from UA are useful for players. Access at level 3 rather than level 6 and removing the need for the enemy to fail a save are both awesome. Losing the damage dealt in the UA version is a totally fair trade for losing the need for the enemy to fail a save. As the inspiration die gets bigger unsettling words also has an increasing chance of being more impactful than the disadvantage imposed in the UA version. While it is possible to psych out the enemy with a bonus action then hit them with a save or suck spell on the same turn I love that the save debuff mechanic encourages teamwork in the form of bards setting up other casters for power plays on their turns.
Losing the ability to heal with words using inspiration is a bummer and a significant nerf, but much less of a problem given that bards already have access to the spell healing word.
This class is also the answer to every meme about bardic inspiration being useless. At level 6 your buddies get to keep using inspiration till it works (or for the next 10 minutes) so the only way it isn't impactful is if the player is rolling hot anyway and at level 14 you get to infect your buddies with inspiration on a success so it's probably going to be useful even if the roll would have succeeded without inspiration.
Bottom line; college of eloquence looks really fun and the changes they made seem well balanced (presuming DMs are able to handle having an unstoppable social skills juggernaut in the party).
The question is how it stacks up against lore bard with the 3 extra skills, the extra magical secrets and being able to inspire yourself as a capstone.
While having a huge minimum roll so early may seem powerful, I think it honestly highlights a misuse of the persuasion skill up to now. I don't mean to say that everyone 'is playing wrong' but there are somethings that a character with motivations just WOULDN'T consider. There are some obvious ones, like a paladin on a holy quest wouldn't give their sacred relic to you (a stranger) just because you can talk well.. but there are others that shouldn't be rolls in the first place. There are plenty of npc interactions that shouldn't feature as many rolls as they do at various tables; sometimes the NPC is delivering quest and plot hooks and that shouldn't be derailed because of a player demanding to roll some dice.
Deception is a bit easier to gauge, as it should be used any time the player is being dishonest, and effectively resolves in a clear fashion: if you pass a deception check your dishonesty is undetected. Passing a persuasion check is less clear-cut, or at least in my opinion SHOULD be less clear cut. Succeeding on a persuasion check doesn't mean you automatically get everything you ever wanted. The NPC has motivations and needs too. Most dm's wouldn't let you roll a persuasion to have a shopkeeper give you that super fancy Magic Sword for free, but they might agree to a REASONABLE discount of 10% or so off their asking price. Or maybe succeeding on the persuasion check will prompt the shopkeeper to offer a quest to get the sword for free. It doesn't need to mean you 'win' the encounter.
There's some cognitive dissonance here. Yes, the minimum is 10, but it only increases the average roll to about two points higher than normal. So while it prevents a catastrophic failure, it is, at best, equivalent to providing advantage on a check. Yes, a 3rd-level Eloquence Bard would only ever roll a minimum of 17 on their roll, while a lore bard might roll an 8 minimum. However, if the lore bard uses cutting words, an OPPOSED roll will still likely succeed. A standard guard would have an insight roll of around 10-11, and an average cutting words roll would reduce that by 3-4. So, on average, a guard would roll a 7 opposing your 8. Meanwhile, if you both roll an 11, you both get an 18, and if the guard rolls a nat 20, the lore bard can counter it, while the eloquence bard is sunk.
Also, consider that the eloquence ability doesn't improve as the player gains levels. Again, yes, your minimum roll goes up, but so does the lore bard's, and theirs increases more dramatically. By 20th level, your minimum roll is 27, which is... wow. But theirs is an 18, which is still respectable. Further, the lore bard's cutting words and peerless skill abilities mean that their ability continues to grow. Even with a 1 on the base roll, the lore bard has an 18. Add to that an average roll on the peerless skill and cutting words rolls, and you have a 6-7 improvement to your 18 (24-25), and can nerf your opponent's roll by an additional 6-7, functionally increasing your roll by that amount. So, in the end, you're looking at an 18 minimum, which wins most conflicts, and if you're about to lose, you can functionally increase it to a 31 on average. Meanwhile, again, the eloquence bard is boned. And, again, with average rolls, the eloquence bard has a 28, and the lore bard can achieve a 40. And with peak rolls, an eloquence bard gets a 37, and the lore bard functionally achieves a 51.
The eloquence bard's save debuff is incredible at low levels, and scales down a bit as they grow. Lore bard gets more significant, especially as you can use it to augment counterspells and the like. The things that improve the quality of the inspiration roll are pretty good, but then, so is additional magical secrets. All-in, I think Lore Bard remains the King of Colleges.
I just got the book (the physical one) so this is my take:
The subclass as a whole is pretty well balanced. This is definitely one of the more powerful bard subclasses, up there with College of Lore. Silver tongue is great, but it won’t mess up the game much. I mean, beards are getting crazy high persuasion and deception rolls anyway. Unsettling words is pretty good, but not OP. Unfailing Inspiration is incredible, but not broken. Considering some of the other bard features at 6th level, this is one of the more powerful, but not too much. Universal speech is good, but doesn’t make the subclass more powerful. Infectious Inspiration is far and away the best feature (as it should be, at level 14). It basically gives you CHA extra uses of inspiration that can only be used when someone succeeds on a check using inspiration. That’s really good but still not broken.
Overall, this is an incredible subclass, but I wouldn’t say it’s broken.
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One thing to note about probability:
With Reliable Talent (min 10) and a +10 (+4 for Cha and + 6 for Expertise), the average roll will be average 22.75. But this is NOT how you would equate this skill roll because it’s not a normal variance.
Think of it this way:
If you roll a 1-10, the result will be 20. That’s 50% of the time.
If you roll 11-14, the result will be 21-24. That’s 20% of the time.
Which means to beat a 25 DC skill check, it’ll still only happen 30% of the time.
I love auto-successes by the way - as a DM I make social interactions more about reasonable-ness and less about “dominate person” mechanics. So success has never ruined a great interaction, only added depth and more interaction.
IMO it is *neither* balanced, nor busted (depending on terms). When I hear a class is “balanced” I.take that to mean it is middling. Not terrible, nor great. Just kind of meh...
The Eloquence Bard is (no doubt), now the most powerful Bard. But does that de facto make it “OP”? No. Whenever something strong is released, players like me are always happy, but the paragons of roll-play virtue loudly complain how “busted” it is. But if they nerf a class into oblivion, those who like to optimize for combat complain (Oath is Glory) and the virtuous ones say “OMG it’s so wonderfully balanced”
The Eloquence Bard inspired me to play a Bard for the first time. I start level 2 next session so I’m not there yet. But here’s what I like about it.
Conceptually, I like that their specialty is being eloquent speakers. And mechanically I LOVE that you get to make “save or suck” spells hit more often. I always want to pick the single target saving throw spells, but then I’m torn because when I burn a spell slot and literally nothing happens... I end up wanting to cry over a tub of ice cream.
So I end up going heavier on attack and AOE spells, which...isn’t the Bard’s forte. Like holy crap, are there ANY Bard attack spells? The Bard has saving throw spells coming out the wazoo, and now at least one Bard subclass can make “save or suck” spells much more viable.
I've been playing a CoE bard for a few sessions now and have found it to be quite powerful but far from broken when compared to other classes. Yes, I am a diplomacy cannon. I can literally charm the pants off someone (and have in the process of stealing a ship and the captain's identity).
The power of this class has a lot of variability based on the DM, much like illusion spells it's only as powerful as the DM's buy-in. Their purely mechanical abilities like the persistent/bouncing inspirations and reducing spell saves are great and very strong, but far from broken.
For DM's with CoE bards in their campaigns, remember that a high persuasion check doesn't mean the player gets everything they want, just that the NPCs view their suggestions in a favorable light. A king would never just hand the kingdom over to the bars because they got a 30+ on their roll, but they might laugh it off as a joke instead of ordering the guards to execute them. Persuasion is used to influence others and nudge them in a favorable direction, not dominate them.
Unless you take Infernal Calling as one of your 10th level magical secrets spells like I did. My CoE changeling bard is known as the Devil Charmer, and revels in adding True Names to her little black book.
True but that is within the parameters of the spell, I was mostly speaking as a general rule. Though thanks for pointing out the spell, might take it with my CoE bard. Looks fun.
I just started playing a Bard in a Theros campaign and am chomping at the bit to reach 3rd level to dive into the College of Eloquence. As a variant human, I took the Magic Initiate Feat (Cleric) to get Guidance (stacks with Bardic Inspiration) and Bless (both have already payed dividends).
Going to really dive in hard on the Persuasion / Deception portion of the character. At first level, CHA 16, I'm already getting a +5 to those skills (and adding in a 1d4 from Guidance). At 3rd level... With expertise and Silver Tongue... the lowest possible roll for Persuasion / Deception will be a 17.
In a role-play heavy campaign, this character can be absolutely bonkers! But, I wouldn't consider it broken. Just really good at having folks see things from their point of view. :) Although, it could possibly give the DM some fits, but I'm sure they will be able to manage, lol. I recorded my character build if anyone is interested: D&D College of Eloquence Bard 5E Build
We'll see how things go in Theros, but this is possibly my new favorite Bard college!
I have a YouTube channel with 5th Edition D&D Puzzles, Character Creations, DM Tips and Quests ideas. Check it out!
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