Power word kill isn't great compared to some other choices.
Vicious mockery can be fun but the damage is the pits at any level. 1st level characters do better damage than the cantrip at 17th+ levels. At lower levels it is whiffs a lot due to low DC's and at higher levels the action economy has more competition from spell slots, and multiple attacks are more common.
Vicious mockery can protect against one attack regardless of who gets attacked but if someone needs it shifting the action cost to that person with dodge as an action helps against multiple attacks an gives the action back to the bard for a more effective spell (or other action).
So my suggestion to help your bard (full-caster) (please go lore bard!) and make it more combat oriented would be to start as a human to grab the feat magic initiate (warlock) or you could wait until 4th level and snag eldritch blast, prestidigitation, and hellish rebuke (as the 1st level spell option). Doing this will give you access to eldritch blast (one of the strongest damage cantrips and an excellent go to spell if you use your bonus action for a healing word) and hellish rebuke (which gives you a use for your reaction other than cutting words).
I'm sorry but eldritch blast is really only the "best cantrip in the game"TM when you have the invocations for it (and hex). Base, it only does 1d10 per shot, with it varying from other cantrips by increasing the shots, like a mulit attack, as opposed to just increasing the die count like others... and without a good hit mod, each individual shot has a better chance of missing (although you can say, more chances of hitting if the 1st one fails).
Where it REALLY shines is with hex and Agonizing blast together. With the above mentioned, uniqueness of EB, hex and agonizing blast now apply to EACH beam.. So where a draconic sorcerer would do 1 blast (1x attack roll) of 4d10+5 (let's even say +d6 with hex), a 17th level warlock would do 1d10+d6+5, and 1d10+d6+5, and 1d10+d6+5, and 1d10+d6+5. Each with an individual attack roll.
That doesn't even include the other EB invocations like spear or repelling or the pull... but the point is, without agonizing blast, elritch blast IS mediocre and people need to stop saying otherwise. Even with a 1/per day Hex from magic initiate.
Power Word Kill is a level 9 spell, of which you get one a day.
At 17th level. Which is when people complained about VM. So, yeah?
VM starts to suck at level 5.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
So my suggestion to help your bard (full-caster) (please go lore bard!) and make it more combat oriented would be to start as a human to grab the feat magic initiate (warlock) or you could wait until 4th level and snag eldritch blast, prestidigitation, and hellish rebuke (as the 1st level spell option). Doing this will give you access to eldritch blast (one of the strongest damage cantrips and an excellent go to spell if you use your bonus action for a healing word) and hellish rebuke (which gives you a use for your reaction other than cutting words).
I'm sorry but eldritch blast is really only the "best cantrip in the game"TM when you have the invocations for it (and hex). Base, it only does 1d10 per shot, with it varying from other cantrips by increasing the shots, like a mulit attack, as opposed to just increasing the die count like others... and without a good hit mod, each individual shot has a better chance of missing (although you can say, more chances of hitting if the 1st one fails).
Where it REALLY shines is with hex and Agonizing blast together. With the above mentioned, uniqueness of EB, hex and agonizing blast now apply to EACH beam.. So where a draconic sorcerer would do 1 blast (1x attack roll) of 4d10+5 (let's even say +d6 with hex), a 17th level warlock would do 1d10+d6+5, and 1d10+d6+5, and 1d10+d6+5, and 1d10+d6+5. Each with an individual attack roll.
That doesn't even include the other EB invocations like spear or repelling or the pull... but the point is, without agonizing blast, elritch blast IS mediocre and people need to stop saying otherwise. Even with a 1/per day Hex from magic initiate.
Multiple blasts of EB even without eldritch invocations is better than single big blasts of, say firebolt. Multiple attacks is better than singles, force is better than...everything...damage type wise. Even without invocations and hex/hunter's mark, EB is the best damage cantrip in the game.
In short, you are wrong.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Multiple blasts of EB even without eldritch invocations is better than single big blasts of, say firebolt. Multiple attacks is better than singles, force is better than...everything...damage type wise. Even without invocations and hex/hunter's mark, EB is the best damage cantrip in the game.
Well, let's get back to a Bard in a fight. At first level the two problems are the HP and the AC of the Bard. You can fight with a longsword, but you will usually fight with a rapier for the dex bonus.
If you don't get "jumped" as a Bard in round one, you could use Dissonant Whispers against most opponents which has a better than average chance of delivering 3d6 damage and causing the opponent to flee permitting opportunity attacks. Or, you can deliver a Bane against three opponents which will help your party quite a bit. After your two spell slots are gone you can still try to poke the enemy with your rapier or use Vicious Mockery to deliver 1d4 damage and give the monster disadvantage on their first attack next turn, which can be worth a +5 AC bonus, effectively. Or you can hand out a bardic inspiration +1d6 to one of your teammates if they are facing a high AC monster. Or, you can "help" a rogue so he gets bonuses when he attacks. Unfortunately the rapier prevents you from gaining TWF by using a second weapon.
Now many classes don't do much better than that at level 1 except the Bard is going to be hit and has fewer HP to take before he drops. Pretty near every other class is going to have as good an AC as a Bard and have as many or more HP. I had a bad bit of luck because one of my first encounters was against skeletons and they have resistance to piercing damage.
At second level all the other classes except the Magic Users are getting some sort of meaningful buff for fighting, most for melee combat or something. So you're right that bards start to fall behind in their ability to deliver damage, particularly on a sustained basis. Your Bard is also falling behind in HP but once you get off first level your surviveability is pretty good, at least from getting KOed in a single round. But with a low AC, getting KOed in two rounds isn't a stretch.
As far as I can tell, you should have four other characters in the party to make a bard a good consideration. The reason is you need party members to buff in order to survive as a bard. If a bard get engaged often, your party, and the bard in particular, are in bad shape. I often use my bard to support other characters by fighting alongside them or something. I even used my bard to tank damage when my party was being pelted with stones. My bard ran into the ambush with the rest of the party so that some measure of damage would fall on him and less would be concentrated on our best fighters, potentially taking them out of the fight before we closed the range.
If you are a slash and bash player, you won't like playing a bard in combat. But there are other reasons to play a bard. If they don't appeal to you then you are in luck because there are plenty of other classes to choose from. Good luck and enjoy the game.
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Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
Multiple blasts of EB even without eldritch invocations is better than single big blasts of, say firebolt. Multiple attacks is better than singles, force is better than...everything...damage type wise. Even without invocations and hex/hunter's mark, EB is the best damage cantrip in the game.
But I disagree with that. VM is still viable through tier 2 play. It isn’t until tier 3 that it really starts to fall behind.
That's why I said "starts to". Damage is ~half of other cantrip users, and the disadvantage loses potency since it only covers one attack. As attacks scale up, it gets even worse. By T3, it's simply bad.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Well, let's get back to a Bard in a fight. At first level the two problems are the HP and the AC of the Bard. You can fight with a longsword, but you will usually fight with a rapier for the dex bonus.
If you don't get "jumped" as a Bard in round one, you could use Dissonant Whispers against most opponents which has a better than average chance of delivering 3d6 damage and causing the opponent to flee permitting opportunity attacks. Or, you can deliver a Bane against three opponents which will help your party quite a bit. After your two spell slots are gone you can still try to poke the enemy with your rapier or use Vicious Mockery to deliver 1d4 damage and give the monster disadvantage on their first attack next turn, which can be worth a +5 AC bonus, effectively. Or you can hand out a bardic inspiration +1d6 to one of your teammates if they are facing a high AC monster. Or, you can "help" a rogue so he gets bonuses when he attacks. Unfortunately the rapier prevents you from gaining TWF by using a second weapon.
Now many classes don't do much better than that at level 1 except the Bard is going to be hit and has fewer HP to take before he drops. Pretty near every other class is going to have as good an AC as a Bard and have as many or more HP. I had a bad bit of luck because one of my first encounters was against skeletons and they have resistance to piercing damage.
At second level all the other classes except the Magic Users are getting some sort of meaningful buff for fighting, most for melee combat or something. So you're right that bards start to fall behind in their ability to deliver damage, particularly on a sustained basis. Your Bard is also falling behind in HP but once you get off first level your surviveability is pretty good, at least from getting KOed in a single round. But with a low AC, getting KOed in two rounds isn't a stretch.
As far as I can tell, you should have four other characters in the party to make a bard a good consideration. The reason is you need party members to buff in order to survive as a bard. If a bard get engaged often, your party, and the bard in particular, are in bad shape. I often use my bard to support other characters by fighting alongside them or something. I even used my bard to tank damage when my party was being pelted with stones. My bard ran into the ambush with the rest of the party so that some measure of damage would fall on him and less would be concentrated on our best fighters, potentially taking them out of the fight before we closed the range.
If you are a slash and bash player, you won't like playing a bard in combat. But there are other reasons to play a bard. If they don't appeal to you then you are in luck because there are plenty of other classes to choose from. Good luck and enjoy the game.
This is why I am a big fan of the Levistus Tiefling as a bard. Ray of frost gives the bard a decent ranged attack cantrip for when he doesn't have something better to do, and it scales better than shooting a bow. I'm quite surprised that none of the tiefling variants have firebolt or at the very least, produce flame as an attack cantrip, both of which would be highly welcome to a tiefling bard.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
This is why I’m a huge fan of the full-caster bard I mentioned. I’m pretty sure I make my DM cry in combat only because of how EFFECTIVE my character is. I NEVER have anything bad to do. Give my party of front line fighters advantage on their attacks/see invisible enemies with faerie fire? Yup! Try to get close so they can hurt me? How about a nice little hellish rebuke followed up by dissonant whispers on my turn (to also get them away)? Let’s just give the team an attack of opportunity real quick! Scary boss man with powerful metal weapon? No sweat, cast heat metal! Don’t see much else to do? Let’s get that hp up or save a down ally from afar with a nice little healing word, oh AND I’ll cast eldritch blast from my cozy position in the back to snipe y’all. How about we just mess with the opponent or completely nullify them? Let’s make them cry with cutting words, suggestion, or even hypnotic pattern!
Well, let's get back to a Bard in a fight. At first level the two problems are the HP and the AC of the Bard. You can fight with a longsword, but you will usually fight with a rapier for the dex bonus.
If you don't get "jumped" as a Bard in round one, you could use Dissonant Whispers against most opponents which has a better than average chance of delivering 3d6 damage and causing the opponent to flee permitting opportunity attacks. Or, you can deliver a Bane against three opponents which will help your party quite a bit. After your two spell slots are gone you can still try to poke the enemy with your rapier or use Vicious Mockery to deliver 1d4 damage and give the monster disadvantage on their first attack next turn, which can be worth a +5 AC bonus, effectively. Or you can hand out a bardic inspiration +1d6 to one of your teammates if they are facing a high AC monster. Or, you can "help" a rogue so he gets bonuses when he attacks. Unfortunately the rapier prevents you from gaining TWF by using a second weapon.
Now many classes don't do much better than that at level 1 except the Bard is going to be hit and has fewer HP to take before he drops. Pretty near every other class is going to have as good an AC as a Bard and have as many or more HP. I had a bad bit of luck because one of my first encounters was against skeletons and they have resistance to piercing damage.
At second level all the other classes except the Magic Users are getting some sort of meaningful buff for fighting, most for melee combat or something. So you're right that bards start to fall behind in their ability to deliver damage, particularly on a sustained basis. Your Bard is also falling behind in HP but once you get off first level your surviveability is pretty good, at least from getting KOed in a single round. But with a low AC, getting KOed in two rounds isn't a stretch.
As far as I can tell, you should have four other characters in the party to make a bard a good consideration. The reason is you need party members to buff in order to survive as a bard. If a bard get engaged often, your party, and the bard in particular, are in bad shape. I often use my bard to support other characters by fighting alongside them or something. I even used my bard to tank damage when my party was being pelted with stones. My bard ran into the ambush with the rest of the party so that some measure of damage would fall on him and less would be concentrated on our best fighters, potentially taking them out of the fight before we closed the range.
If you are a slash and bash player, you won't like playing a bard in combat. But there are other reasons to play a bard. If they don't appeal to you then you are in luck because there are plenty of other classes to choose from. Good luck and enjoy the game.
I am not sure why people think bards have low HP. D8's are the same for artificers, bards, clerics, druids, monks, rogues, or warlocks. It's the standard hit points and higher or lower are the exceptions
There's little difference between the d8 and d10 as well. By 6th level, for example, the difference in the dice is a small 7 HP. Although TBF it's 7 max hit points and an average of 6 hit points of HD healing from short rests , but song of rest swings that in favor of the bard.
Standard bard AC is more of an issue but that is compensated with proficiency from subclass, race, multi-classing, and/or feats.
TWF short swords is better damage than the rapier. If the bard can swing a 16 DEX at 1st level it's the same average damage as vicious mockery at 17th level touching back on the cantrip.
Bard AC and damage tend to fall behind other classes but the HP themselves are middle-of-the-road instead of low.
Power Word Kill is a level 9 spell, of which you get one a day.
Power word kill isn't great compared to some other choices.
Vicious mockery can be fun but the damage is the pits at any level. 1st level characters do better damage than the cantrip at 17th+ levels. At lower levels it is whiffs a lot due to low DC's and at higher levels the action economy has more competition from spell slots, and multiple attacks are more common.
Vicious mockery can protect against one attack regardless of who gets attacked but if someone needs it shifting the action cost to that person with dodge as an action helps against multiple attacks an gives the action back to the bard for a more effective spell (or other action).
I tend to skip vicious mockery
At 17th level. Which is when people complained about VM. So, yeah?
At 17th level. Which is when people complained about VM. So, yeah?
I'm sorry but eldritch blast is really only the "best cantrip in the game"TM when you have the invocations for it (and hex). Base, it only does 1d10 per shot, with it varying from other cantrips by increasing the shots, like a mulit attack, as opposed to just increasing the die count like others... and without a good hit mod, each individual shot has a better chance of missing (although you can say, more chances of hitting if the 1st one fails).
Where it REALLY shines is with hex and Agonizing blast together. With the above mentioned, uniqueness of EB, hex and agonizing blast now apply to EACH beam.. So where a draconic sorcerer would do 1 blast (1x attack roll) of 4d10+5 (let's even say +d6 with hex), a 17th level warlock would do 1d10+d6+5, and 1d10+d6+5, and 1d10+d6+5, and 1d10+d6+5. Each with an individual attack roll.
That doesn't even include the other EB invocations like spear or repelling or the pull... but the point is, without agonizing blast, elritch blast IS mediocre and people need to stop saying otherwise. Even with a 1/per day Hex from magic initiate.
VM starts to suck at level 5.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Multiple blasts of EB even without eldritch invocations is better than single big blasts of, say firebolt. Multiple attacks is better than singles, force is better than...everything...damage type wise. Even without invocations and hex/hunter's mark, EB is the best damage cantrip in the game.
In short, you are wrong.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
That’s all true.
But I disagree with that. VM is still viable through tier 2 play. It isn’t until tier 3 that it really starts to fall behind.
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Well, let's get back to a Bard in a fight. At first level the two problems are the HP and the AC of the Bard. You can fight with a longsword, but you will usually fight with a rapier for the dex bonus.
If you don't get "jumped" as a Bard in round one, you could use Dissonant Whispers against most opponents which has a better than average chance of delivering 3d6 damage and causing the opponent to flee permitting opportunity attacks. Or, you can deliver a Bane against three opponents which will help your party quite a bit. After your two spell slots are gone you can still try to poke the enemy with your rapier or use Vicious Mockery to deliver 1d4 damage and give the monster disadvantage on their first attack next turn, which can be worth a +5 AC bonus, effectively. Or you can hand out a bardic inspiration +1d6 to one of your teammates if they are facing a high AC monster. Or, you can "help" a rogue so he gets bonuses when he attacks. Unfortunately the rapier prevents you from gaining TWF by using a second weapon.
Now many classes don't do much better than that at level 1 except the Bard is going to be hit and has fewer HP to take before he drops. Pretty near every other class is going to have as good an AC as a Bard and have as many or more HP. I had a bad bit of luck because one of my first encounters was against skeletons and they have resistance to piercing damage.
At second level all the other classes except the Magic Users are getting some sort of meaningful buff for fighting, most for melee combat or something. So you're right that bards start to fall behind in their ability to deliver damage, particularly on a sustained basis. Your Bard is also falling behind in HP but once you get off first level your surviveability is pretty good, at least from getting KOed in a single round. But with a low AC, getting KOed in two rounds isn't a stretch.
As far as I can tell, you should have four other characters in the party to make a bard a good consideration. The reason is you need party members to buff in order to survive as a bard. If a bard get engaged often, your party, and the bard in particular, are in bad shape. I often use my bard to support other characters by fighting alongside them or something. I even used my bard to tank damage when my party was being pelted with stones. My bard ran into the ambush with the rest of the party so that some measure of damage would fall on him and less would be concentrated on our best fighters, potentially taking them out of the fight before we closed the range.
If you are a slash and bash player, you won't like playing a bard in combat. But there are other reasons to play a bard. If they don't appeal to you then you are in luck because there are plenty of other classes to choose from. Good luck and enjoy the game.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
That's why I said "starts to". Damage is ~half of other cantrip users, and the disadvantage loses potency since it only covers one attack. As attacks scale up, it gets even worse. By T3, it's simply bad.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
This is why I am a big fan of the Levistus Tiefling as a bard. Ray of frost gives the bard a decent ranged attack cantrip for when he doesn't have something better to do, and it scales better than shooting a bow. I'm quite surprised that none of the tiefling variants have firebolt or at the very least, produce flame as an attack cantrip, both of which would be highly welcome to a tiefling bard.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
This is why I’m a huge fan of the full-caster bard I mentioned. I’m pretty sure I make my DM cry in combat only because of how EFFECTIVE my character is. I NEVER have anything bad to do. Give my party of front line fighters advantage on their attacks/see invisible enemies with faerie fire? Yup! Try to get close so they can hurt me? How about a nice little hellish rebuke followed up by dissonant whispers on my turn (to also get them away)? Let’s just give the team an attack of opportunity real quick! Scary boss man with powerful metal weapon? No sweat, cast heat metal! Don’t see much else to do? Let’s get that hp up or save a down ally from afar with a nice little healing word, oh AND I’ll cast eldritch blast from my cozy position in the back to snipe y’all. How about we just mess with the opponent or completely nullify them? Let’s make them cry with cutting words, suggestion, or even hypnotic pattern!
I am not sure why people think bards have low HP. D8's are the same for artificers, bards, clerics, druids, monks, rogues, or warlocks. It's the standard hit points and higher or lower are the exceptions
There's little difference between the d8 and d10 as well. By 6th level, for example, the difference in the dice is a small 7 HP. Although TBF it's 7 max hit points and an average of 6 hit points of HD healing from short rests , but song of rest swings that in favor of the bard.
Standard bard AC is more of an issue but that is compensated with proficiency from subclass, race, multi-classing, and/or feats.
TWF short swords is better damage than the rapier. If the bard can swing a 16 DEX at 1st level it's the same average damage as vicious mockery at 17th level touching back on the cantrip.
Bard AC and damage tend to fall behind other classes but the HP themselves are middle-of-the-road instead of low.