I'm a new player trying to jump in with both feet so pardon if I am missing something obvious here, but why do druids feel kind of flaccid in their class specific ability Wildshape when compared to other classes?
Again, I might be missing something here, maybe it's just too broken with more uses or I'm missing exactly where it gives increased uses, but I don't understand why they don't? Barbarians get more rages and more damage, Sorcerers get more SPs and more meta magics, Monks get more Ki and Martial Arts die, I can go on and on, Druids get more time but only the two uses until level 20? That seems incredibly low for even middle levels, especially considering that you can't cast spells in Wildshape until 18 and that's the entire other half of the class. I don't understand how time is supposed to make up for that, cool I get to stay in it longer, but that doesn't increase the beast's health to last longer or allow me to pop out and use spells, battles are way to short to need that kind of time and the spell half of the class has WAY more utility out of battle. With this limitation it feels like the class is essentially a low class wizard. I am just looking to grasp why this decision was made as it is driving me up a wall, I mean, this seems like what Subclasses were made for.
Does anybody have houserules for it increasing? Even if it's only once or twice to say, four uses by levels 16-18, and maybe decrease the time restraint more to even it out. This gives the Druid a lot more utility and makes them more fun to play, maybe make an entire melee focused subclass who only gets more uses? I just feel like the Druid needs an update like the UA Ranger and wanted to know what the community thinks. I almost want to try to homebrew something for an upcoming game but don't know nearly enough to do so yet, so I thought I'd see if ya'll had anything.
Only the amount of time in wildshape increase with the level. Consider that wildshape gives you a boost of hit points, physical stats and other skills, allowing the druid to deal with a great number of situations. Moreover the druid is primarily a spellcasting class. IN my opinion, the wildshape it is fine as it is.
Don't forget that Wild Shape uses recharge after a Short Rest - Barbarian's Rage is after a Long rest. Most DMs that I know of will usually allow a party to have a max of 2 short rests per day (but of course depending on a number of factors), so that is effectively 6 uses per day, should the short rests occur. As @filecat mentioned, the druid is a full caster - so spellcasting is one of the main traits, with Wild Shape being another.
Hm, I guess I see the druid and the paladin as attempts to blur the lines a bit, making them a bit of both Spellcasting and Fighting. I see the advantages of wild shape in it's current iteration, but I feel the time isn't a super useful upgrade. Since battles are on such a short timeframe as it is, the only time I can see the time increase being useful is transport. While that can be a benefit to the players, I think that out of battle the druid needs the ability to drop wildshape to be able to roleplay without penalty if desired. Otherwise my druid will go into wildshape in battle then spend the next six in game hours as a cat who can only meow because they refuse to drop it as they only get one more that day. I think you raise a good point with the hit points, you're essentially giving the druid a few toss-away lives, but don't a lot of creatures have relatively low AC compared to the player counterparts? I imagine it'd go quickly if the druid decides to really get in there, and it would encourage someone who spends every battle sitting in back throwing spells to get into the action, making combat more dynamic instead of textbook. But even if the Druid is primarily a spellcasting class, doesn't it seem to not make sense that you give them an HOURS long ability which disables that ability for most of the game (assuming most characters peter out and roll anew a bit after 20)? Again, not wanting to waste the two uses you get, I feel it makes Druids prone to looking foolish when they're thought to be a primarily spellcasting class that has to turn off their very limited, flavorful, potentially fun and useful ability to DO their primary thing.
I think it'd at least make an exciting subclass of a vicious beastial druid who focuses more on nature's own devised ability to fight, putting themselves directly on the battlefront to protect life.
THAT is what I was missing, I thought it just said Long Rest, I was so focused on the additional uses I didn't think to double check it's recovery time. See, that's the newbie mistake I knew I was committing. Yes, that does effectively give it several more uses a day, and if the party doesn't rest it's on them. Thanks for the help!
Also, even though wildshape is the druid's unique feature, it's actually spellcasting that is their "main" feature, so wildshape isn't meant to carry the weight of making it feel worth-while to play a druid.
I'm playing a Moon-Moon Druid, and while I am disappointing that Wild Shape doesn't get an upgrade until 4th (Swim Speed), 6th level (CR:2 & magical attacks), and 8th (Fly Speed) levels.
The fact that I'm down-playing my spell casting abilities and focusing on being a Were-Dinosaur (Lizardman Druid, not actually a lycanthrope) is a personal choice... while I would like to see something closer to a Shape-Shifter Paladin for the Druid... but it has full caster bang and that ask is an Unearth Arcana ask. Although I do wish the Combat Wild Shape Bonus Action to use a spell had a + Wis Bonus, as a minimum as rolling a 1 can render a spell slot moot.
Also, as Sorce pointed out it's per short rest, so you can regain your uses pretty quickly. Today our thief picked the door's lock to find it barred. They were going to scale a sheer wall, when I just turned into a spider, crawled under the door and reverted back... then I just opened the door.
As AaronOfBarbaria points out, Druids have full caster bang, and if I ever decide to do anything with my spell slots other then Goodberry and Healing Word it can be pretty awesome (although I don't consider the Druid's spell list to be particularly awesome)
I will say... the things you can Wild Shape into are AMAZING. So far I've changed into a: Brown Bear, Deinonychus, Giant Spider, and Tiger. All of these creatures have "free" hit points (very low AC) and can deal more damage per turn then I've ever seen a 2nd level character deal.
I also just realized the Giant Spider has blind sense for 10feet! So I can now cast Darkness as an Action, turn into a Giant Spider as Bonus Action. Now I can see my enemy while they can't see me.
That said if your GM is up for making a magic item. Giving up a slot to increase your Wild Shapes and or give you a better return on your healing should be well withing Home Brew if it's not AL legal.
more time as an animal doesnt really Do any thing except at level 4 you can take a short rest as animal and at level 16 could take a long rest as an animal . give me more uses so I can use them to expend my time as I wish . because most animals you turn into will die quickly my bear laster only 2 rounds agenst an onslot of 4 hobgoblin . "I made a hack where its a pool and you spend it as you wish each point is a 1/4 CR for other or 1 CR for moon and each point is an hour and basically your pool = half your druid level same as the PHD thats it problem solved higher CR for cost and moon or longer depends on the situation" it is THE shape shifting class that it is primary thing if I wanted a caster first a shaper second I would have played the transmutation wizard "even thou it shape shifting thing is laughably bad" . it has the least number of sub classes ... including the unearthed arcane . it has really strong nature since but doesnt give Nature proficiency or animal handling as a free proficiency as you level up . and the wording on the proficiency as an animal weird . do I use my proficiency when attacking as an animal or not its not clear . if the gient spider is expert at stealth do I become expert and double my stealth !!! some creatures use half thier profincy for attacks .... "thats an npc design problem for me of why not include the creature proficiency and the structure of ability like escape restrain and such" do my dragonborn druid can use their weapon breath or not ! the wording is suuuuuper vague .
its nature themed but only turn into animals ? what about plants ???? why not plants ??? elemental "only the moon can and limited to 4 options" ?? I wont say Monstrosity or constructs or undead as they are unnatural ... "but not all monstrosity are unnatural the druid cant turn into an owlbear I find it stupid (yes they were made but that was ages ago learn to adapt evolution B-Hs) " .
some spells are just dumb tbh like fire blade its an V S M spell that required a free hand ...... bark skin yeah because when you are striped of all your equipment you and you need an ac so you can live opps it need an M components sorry cant cast it . oh look darkness I cant see .... I wish I had a spell somehow I can cast oh well if only there was dried carrots around . I have to wait UNTIL LEVEL 20 to cast these without V S M .... really ..... And the catrips OMG the aweful cantrips . ok how many attack rolls spells for the druid only 3 P.F , Thorn.W , Magic Stone "AWFUL DISGUSTING Cantrip" and they are 30 30 60 ft . really really sad . other roll attack are 3 cotangent , F.B , Ice knife .... really REALLY sad collection . "Kinda salty because my DM keep throwing me in jail .... 3 times so far and I am still level 5 XD" .
and they have the least amount of compatible Magic Items .
but after all that I still love them . the versatility and the lore of the druids are just super tasty and great . I just wish I could do more with it .
I use wildshapes to accomplish unique tasks. Like someone above said, using wildshape to get around barriers like walking through bars while small. You can also use it to burrow a hole into an enemy base by wildshaping into a creature with a burrow speed. Use it to ferry people across rivers by wildshaping into something with a swim speed. Use the blindsight on some shapes to get around in fog cloud while the enemy stumbles around trying to find you. Turn into a giant spider and weave a web to catch someone. Turn into something with a climb speed and climb a wall then drop a rope down for the others to use to climb up. Wildshape is only as limited as the animals you can turn into + your imagination and creativity make it. Being able to be an animal for a long time opens up hilarious "animal charades" RP, as well, where you're trying to communicate without being able to speak, and limited by what your form is capable of doing. How do you communicate enemy numbers as a snake with no fingers? How do you tell someone "there's an enemy behind that tree" as a crab? How do you tell your party to wait while you scout around while you're a panther? How about using your wildshaped as part of a performance? You'd be the smartest mouse anyone's ever seen! Don't want it wearing off in the middle of the show, do you?
Like sexyjesus said, the longer time in wild shape is really useful for non combat scenarios. You could turn into am animal for recon or stealth, and having more time for those is really important.
Sure but wouldn't more uses with the same exact rules do the same things ? expanding the uses to stay in the form longer . if like the uses where 4 uses one hour . expanding the 4 uses would be exactly like expanding your two uses up to level 5 .
I made a hack where you get the exact number of hours but for a single use (half the druid level rounded down) but each hour = 1 slot . if you are normal druid thats a 1/4 CR worth moon druid thats a 1 CR worth . and you can combine them to get higher CR that way normal druids can go up to CR 2 at level 16 and Moon Druids can go up to CR 8 at level 16 or CR 10 for 20 . (I posted here but I got no feedback at all except one poll result -need more balance- which didnt say anything useful)
and that gives you the option to either go something small and stay longer in that form or go super nova all out for one hour . and remember that druids can take a short rest as an animal form .
if you want to go even further as a hack says that you can expend spell slots for wild shape slots 1 per level or 1 per 2 level slots .
its just really weird design choice to go from 2 uses only at level 2 through level 19 to UNLIMITED UNSTOPPABLE GONNA WRECK EVERYTHING at level 20 . dosent make sense .
its the only class that does this . the only other class that get unlimited stuff at level 20 is the Barbarian number of rages at level 20 but they got two things . 1) the barbarian rages numbers get increased regularly . 2) at level 15 they get persistent rage which basically makes it unlimited . yes the rage is limited for one minute normally or ends early if he doesn't attack or take damage for a round (a good player will just bite his lips) but thats a Fight ability only . and two most fights dont last a minute !!! at first I considered making something like the druid spend one minute per turn for wild shape if they are in combat but that required like a lot of calculations at the player side so I descarted the Idea and ended up with the time slots thing .
and if they just want to make it VERY SIMPLE just make it so the druid can wild shape number of times equal to wisdom modifier .
if you consider Wild Shape is the level 4 Polymorph spell and that only lasts 1 hour. The Wild Shape ability uses your characters magic resource and then can last up to half your level in hours. This is a big drain on your battery which is why the use is limited until you get to level 20.
thats not a cool answer . if thats so then give us the ability to cut down that "Power draining ability" for more uses .... Give us the Option to do so. please check my thread and my two cents on how to rework the class feature and give me feedback: Druid Wild Shape revisited
The duration of Wild Shape and the power of the Wild Shape form increases as you level, but the number of times you can do it does not (until you reach level 20 and get unlimited Wild Shapes). I suspect the reason for that is the concern that a Druid with 6 charges of Wild Shape (for example) would have a really huge pool of temporary HP at his disposal. So I'm guessing it's a balance issue.
Heya, just came across this. its worth mentioning for those struggling to maintain a form for HP reasons. Don't forget that you also have the ability to sacrifice spell slots for healing. If you are using more of your time in form to fight, odds are you aren't casting spells so they may as well use as healing fuel. I would gander its the same the other way, where when you arent taking damage and holding likely a spot away from melee, then you are likely to be casting spells.
Honestly i just want a formal chart to increase CR of normally lower cr creatures, to bring them up to par. chances are ill want a bigger cooler shape than dire wolf at say 16th level, but what IF i WANT to shape into a dire wolf with stats for that of a CR 5 Dire wolf. i mean im sure i could either discuss it with my DM if/when that comes up but really wished there might be a guide/aid that would be geared towards player druids. I recognize there are rules for improving CR of a creature but with how fluid sometimes CR can be it may be hard to balance otherwise.
Honestly i just want a formal chart to increase CR of normally lower cr creatures, to bring them up to par. chances are ill want a bigger cooler shape than dire wolf at say 16th level, but what IF i WANT to shape into a dire wolf with stats for that of a CR 5 Dire wolf. i mean im sure i could either discuss it with my DM if/when that comes up but really wished there might be a guide/aid that would be geared towards player druids. I recognize there are rules for improving CR of a creature but with how fluid sometimes CR can be it may be hard to balance otherwise.
I tried going down the same path, even found a pretty good write up of most of the basic rules that creatures follow, but basically I don't think there's ever going to be an official, 'these are the set rules to advance a monster'. The reason is, there's actually no clear cut standard about how each creature was created. They were all created in isolation from one another with some vague outlines, but no mathematical structure or template that they followed. The more you dig, the more you find inconsistencies and arbitrary differences; often you're not sure if it's a typo or intentional. I've given up advancing a beast because of this. Eventually when I get to higher CR beasts, where options start to get thin, I'll work with my DM to create some new beasts, but those will probably follow the 'create a monster and assign a CR' rules you've referenced.
I just don't understand how you play. With RAW, you can turn into 2 beasts per short rest. Assuming you're all bout them shapechanges, and you're playing the Moon Druid, you can shape change into a CR 1 beast for an hour. By level 4 you can actually Wild Shape, rest for an hour while still in that form, regain the usage of beast shape, and still have a whole hour of adventuring left in your current form. By Level 6 your beast attacks are magical weapons, and by level 10 you're turning into a CR 5 elemental for 5 hours at a clip (again, you can rest in your beast form, so why wouldn't you). Hell by level 16 (seriously late in the game, but apparently people care about this) you can take a long rest WHILE WILD SHAPED.
This is a class defining feature, but it's also not even a tiny bit under-powered. If you want something similar, go look at the warlock's spell slots. They get 2. They recharge on short rests. They increase in potency as levels go up. The other aspects of the class make up for the "underpowered" nature of their casting abilities. Similarly, the other aspects of the Druid Class (full caster, D8 HP, full access to spell list, ritual casting) compliment the shape changing rather well IMHO.
I've played a druid, I also remember the "good old days" of playing one in 3/3.5E which was closer to what you describe. They're fine the way they are, and seem more than capable of filling several varied roles in a party.
But, like with anything in this game: by all means homebrew what works best for your game. If you feel you need to flash in and out of beast form constantly, and that without that ability the other players in your group are showing you up, change things up. Most of the people in the game's I've played have stuck with RAW characters from the PHB, and I've never felt that a Druid was unable to hold his own with them. But, YMMV.
Well when a druid get focus fire at because its the scary easy to hit target your form will drop in 2 rounds. Well you can rest every fight no because alot of time ... well time matters. Well you are still Denied of important essential half of your class. that is the spell caster Until level 18. that means if you ever want to ever cast a class need to de-change and spent a use. if you want to just enter a small space or to reconasanse you have to expend one use. of only 2 uses, Its just unreasonable to get a Huge power up from only 2 the entirety of an adventure and get 30. I have played in a high intense game. the druid get dropped alot. I played tome of annihilation the druid was the first to die *though part of it because of multiple shitty rolls* . I played in an epic campaign as a druid even after level 20 they died and got brought back by a spell .
Personally, I do find that Wild Shape for the Moon Druid is rather stunted, but that's more of a function of crappy animal form options in the MM than anything else. For example - bears are pretty much the only official Beast option that gives you more than one attack naturally for most of your adventuring career. So, for the majority of your shapeshifting career, you'll be some variation of bear. Pretty much anything else is an open invitation to be ignored. Bears are awesome at low levels, admittedly, but by level 4, they're only middling, and behind the curve everywhere else. And they're the best option until you get elemental forms. And the elemental forms are the best shape until -maybe- level 18 or so. That's a long time with your primary style of play not growing in ability.
Now, I primarily play in a game where short rests can't be counted on showing up every two encounters. Sometimes, we get short rests between every fight, sometimes all the encounters happen in a very rapid timing. It all depends on the story, which means that, when shapeshifted for combat, you're going to be staying in that combat form. That means that you won't be able to de-shift for spells whenever needed, you won't be able to shift into a bird form for exploring, etc. Short rest recharge classes / subclasses are VERY dependent upon the GM. Warlock, the Monk, the Moon Druid, various Fighters... they all play vastly different if you cannot count on having short rests. As such, you'll have different experiences depending on the table. Which is very annoying - I would certainly never recommend the moon druid at my game! Its simply a terrible, terrible option.
I think it would probably have been a good idea to grant one more use of wild-shape at middling levels, but remember everyone plays the game differently, so while people who don't get short rests often enough are hampered by the 2 wild-shapes a short rest, those who DO get plenty of short rests would be WAY to powerful if the were to get access to too many.
That said I'm going to talking with my DM to see about creating a magic item that gives me one extra wild-shape per long rest. My intent will be to reserve this item until I absolutely need it. It will also allow me to be a bit more flexible when doing the elemental shapes.
That said I think there's some stuff that's being overlooked by others in this thread.
1) Wild shape damage output doesn't scale well at certain level ranges but it does not lose it's utility. While I'm currently only at third level and the bear form is a pretty strong, I don't always jump straight into that form. I often take the dire wolf form and run in with my party monk or fighter. With advantage I rarely miss, and the enemy is always rolling for trip. Eventually when the enemy goes down, my melee buddy is going to rip the heck out of them because now they have advantage. I also take giant spider shape quite a bit. There's nothing quite like being able to climb a wall and help out in the middle of a choke point, and the web ability is pretty decent too. Eventually when I get access to fly speed, I'm going to be hell for the DM to deal with. Wizard is already talking about casting Dragon's Breath on me, and I"m looking really hard at potion of fire breath.
2) Don't forget Wild-shape is a bonus action for Moonies... there's value in being able to shift into an animal form move and attack, but I think it's better to cast a spell, shift and move into melee. Most of the time a enemy is going to take advantage of that low AC target that just ran into their range. Yes, you're going to take damage, but that's damage that isn't going to the rest of the party. Damage dealt to you in animal form is way less valuable to your opponent than damage dealt to another PC. No healer is going to waste a spell on an injured druid in animal form once they understand how wild-shape HP pools work so you'll be saving their resources.
3) Moonies can heal themselves as a bonus action in animal form. That's actually pretty powerful. You're burning spells slots yeah, but you're also extending your animal shape and you weren't using those spells slots anyhow. Most of the best druid spells are concentration anyhow so you're never going to have a whole lot of spells running at the same time anyhow.
4) Despite all that I've mentioned above even Moonies are casters first. Take advantage of that. Not every fight should start with you turning into a bear and going berserk. Evaluate the battle. Toss an entangle and make sure it sticks, if it doesn't try something else. Faerie Fire is everyone's best friend,. We've got some interesting CC, and damage. One strat that my EK and I are going to try is to use moonbeam and booming blade. The idea is to force the enemy to make a choice when they're anchored with booming blade. Move take the booming blade damage and the moonbeam damage then force me to use my action to move moonbeam. Or stay put, take moonbeam, avoid booming blade, and risk getting mauled (when I eventually shift).
I'm a new player trying to jump in with both feet so pardon if I am missing something obvious here, but why do druids feel kind of flaccid in their class specific ability Wildshape when compared to other classes?
Again, I might be missing something here, maybe it's just too broken with more uses or I'm missing exactly where it gives increased uses, but I don't understand why they don't? Barbarians get more rages and more damage, Sorcerers get more SPs and more meta magics, Monks get more Ki and Martial Arts die, I can go on and on, Druids get more time but only the two uses until level 20? That seems incredibly low for even middle levels, especially considering that you can't cast spells in Wildshape until 18 and that's the entire other half of the class. I don't understand how time is supposed to make up for that, cool I get to stay in it longer, but that doesn't increase the beast's health to last longer or allow me to pop out and use spells, battles are way to short to need that kind of time and the spell half of the class has WAY more utility out of battle. With this limitation it feels like the class is essentially a low class wizard. I am just looking to grasp why this decision was made as it is driving me up a wall, I mean, this seems like what Subclasses were made for.
Does anybody have houserules for it increasing? Even if it's only once or twice to say, four uses by levels 16-18, and maybe decrease the time restraint more to even it out. This gives the Druid a lot more utility and makes them more fun to play, maybe make an entire melee focused subclass who only gets more uses? I just feel like the Druid needs an update like the UA Ranger and wanted to know what the community thinks. I almost want to try to homebrew something for an upcoming game but don't know nearly enough to do so yet, so I thought I'd see if ya'll had anything.
Only the amount of time in wildshape increase with the level. Consider that wildshape gives you a boost of hit points, physical stats and other skills, allowing the druid to deal with a great number of situations. Moreover the druid is primarily a spellcasting class. IN my opinion, the wildshape it is fine as it is.
Don't forget that Wild Shape uses recharge after a Short Rest - Barbarian's Rage is after a Long rest. Most DMs that I know of will usually allow a party to have a max of 2 short rests per day (but of course depending on a number of factors), so that is effectively 6 uses per day, should the short rests occur. As @filecat mentioned, the druid is a full caster - so spellcasting is one of the main traits, with Wild Shape being another.
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Hm, I guess I see the druid and the paladin as attempts to blur the lines a bit, making them a bit of both Spellcasting and Fighting. I see the advantages of wild shape in it's current iteration, but I feel the time isn't a super useful upgrade. Since battles are on such a short timeframe as it is, the only time I can see the time increase being useful is transport. While that can be a benefit to the players, I think that out of battle the druid needs the ability to drop wildshape to be able to roleplay without penalty if desired. Otherwise my druid will go into wildshape in battle then spend the next six in game hours as a cat who can only meow because they refuse to drop it as they only get one more that day. I think you raise a good point with the hit points, you're essentially giving the druid a few toss-away lives, but don't a lot of creatures have relatively low AC compared to the player counterparts? I imagine it'd go quickly if the druid decides to really get in there, and it would encourage someone who spends every battle sitting in back throwing spells to get into the action, making combat more dynamic instead of textbook. But even if the Druid is primarily a spellcasting class, doesn't it seem to not make sense that you give them an HOURS long ability which disables that ability for most of the game (assuming most characters peter out and roll anew a bit after 20)? Again, not wanting to waste the two uses you get, I feel it makes Druids prone to looking foolish when they're thought to be a primarily spellcasting class that has to turn off their very limited, flavorful, potentially fun and useful ability to DO their primary thing.
I think it'd at least make an exciting subclass of a vicious beastial druid who focuses more on nature's own devised ability to fight, putting themselves directly on the battlefront to protect life.
THAT is what I was missing, I thought it just said Long Rest, I was so focused on the additional uses I didn't think to double check it's recovery time. See, that's the newbie mistake I knew I was committing. Yes, that does effectively give it several more uses a day, and if the party doesn't rest it's on them. Thanks for the help!
Also, even though wildshape is the druid's unique feature, it's actually spellcasting that is their "main" feature, so wildshape isn't meant to carry the weight of making it feel worth-while to play a druid.
I'm playing a Moon-Moon Druid, and while I am disappointing that Wild Shape doesn't get an upgrade until 4th (Swim Speed), 6th level (CR:2 & magical attacks), and 8th (Fly Speed) levels.
The fact that I'm down-playing my spell casting abilities and focusing on being a Were-Dinosaur (Lizardman Druid, not actually a lycanthrope) is a personal choice... while I would like to see something closer to a Shape-Shifter Paladin for the Druid... but it has full caster bang and that ask is an Unearth Arcana ask. Although I do wish the Combat Wild Shape Bonus Action to use a spell had a + Wis Bonus, as a minimum as rolling a 1 can render a spell slot moot.
Also, as Sorce pointed out it's per short rest, so you can regain your uses pretty quickly. Today our thief picked the door's lock to find it barred. They were going to scale a sheer wall, when I just turned into a spider, crawled under the door and reverted back... then I just opened the door.
As AaronOfBarbaria points out, Druids have full caster bang, and if I ever decide to do anything with my spell slots other then Goodberry and Healing Word it can be pretty awesome (although I don't consider the Druid's spell list to be particularly awesome)
I will say... the things you can Wild Shape into are AMAZING. So far I've changed into a: Brown Bear, Deinonychus, Giant Spider, and Tiger. All of these creatures have "free" hit points (very low AC) and can deal more damage per turn then I've ever seen a 2nd level character deal.
I also just realized the Giant Spider has blind sense for 10feet! So I can now cast Darkness as an Action, turn into a Giant Spider as Bonus Action. Now I can see my enemy while they can't see me.
That said if your GM is up for making a magic item. Giving up a slot to increase your Wild Shapes and or give you a better return on your healing should be well withing Home Brew if it's not AL legal.
its disappointing and not really fair I think .
more time as an animal doesnt really Do any thing except at level 4 you can take a short rest as animal and at level 16 could take a long rest as an animal . give me more uses so I can use them to expend my time as I wish . because most animals you turn into will die quickly my bear laster only 2 rounds agenst an onslot of 4 hobgoblin .
"I made a hack where its a pool and you spend it as you wish each point is a 1/4 CR for other or 1 CR for moon and each point is an hour and basically your pool = half your druid level same as the PHD thats it problem solved higher CR for cost and moon or longer depends on the situation"
it is THE shape shifting class that it is primary thing if I wanted a caster first a shaper second I would have played the transmutation wizard "even thou it shape shifting thing is laughably bad" .
it has the least number of sub classes ... including the unearthed arcane .
it has really strong nature since but doesnt give Nature proficiency or animal handling as a free proficiency as you level up . and the wording on the proficiency as an animal weird . do I use my proficiency when attacking as an animal or not its not clear . if the gient spider is expert at stealth do I become expert and double my stealth !!! some creatures use half thier profincy for attacks .... "thats an npc design problem for me of why not include the creature proficiency and the structure of ability like escape restrain and such" do my dragonborn druid can use their weapon breath or not ! the wording is suuuuuper vague .
its nature themed but only turn into animals ? what about plants ???? why not plants ??? elemental "only the moon can and limited to 4 options" ?? I wont say Monstrosity or constructs or undead as they are unnatural ... "but not all monstrosity are unnatural the druid cant turn into an owlbear I find it stupid (yes they were made but that was ages ago learn to adapt evolution B-Hs) " .
some spells are just dumb tbh like fire blade its an V S M spell that required a free hand ...... bark skin yeah because when you are striped of all your equipment you and you need an ac so you can live opps it need an M components sorry cant cast it . oh look darkness I cant see .... I wish I had a spell somehow I can cast oh well if only there was dried carrots around .
I have to wait UNTIL LEVEL 20 to cast these without V S M .... really .....
And the catrips OMG the aweful cantrips . ok how many attack rolls spells for the druid only 3 P.F , Thorn.W , Magic Stone "AWFUL DISGUSTING Cantrip" and they are 30 30 60 ft . really really sad . other roll attack are 3 cotangent , F.B , Ice knife .... really REALLY sad collection .
"Kinda salty because my DM keep throwing me in jail .... 3 times so far and I am still level 5 XD" .
and they have the least amount of compatible Magic Items .
but after all that I still love them .
the versatility and the lore of the druids are just super tasty and great . I just wish I could do more with it .
Lead designer of: Druid Wild Shape Revised, Druid: Circle of Monstrosity (Homebrew class), Revised Classes : Focus on level 20.
Homebrewer of: Halwasa`s Mushrooms of fluid movement (Item), Giraffe (Beast), Displacer Panther (Beast) (heavily modified Displacer Beast that is owned by WoC), Lightning whip (2nd-level Spell), Lesser Shapechange (5th-level Spell), Investiture of Lightning (6th-level Spell), Touched by the magic (Feat).
I use wildshapes to accomplish unique tasks. Like someone above said, using wildshape to get around barriers like walking through bars while small. You can also use it to burrow a hole into an enemy base by wildshaping into a creature with a burrow speed. Use it to ferry people across rivers by wildshaping into something with a swim speed. Use the blindsight on some shapes to get around in fog cloud while the enemy stumbles around trying to find you. Turn into a giant spider and weave a web to catch someone. Turn into something with a climb speed and climb a wall then drop a rope down for the others to use to climb up. Wildshape is only as limited as the animals you can turn into + your imagination and creativity make it. Being able to be an animal for a long time opens up hilarious "animal charades" RP, as well, where you're trying to communicate without being able to speak, and limited by what your form is capable of doing. How do you communicate enemy numbers as a snake with no fingers? How do you tell someone "there's an enemy behind that tree" as a crab? How do you tell your party to wait while you scout around while you're a panther? How about using your wildshaped as part of a performance? You'd be the smartest mouse anyone's ever seen! Don't want it wearing off in the middle of the show, do you?
Like sexyjesus said, the longer time in wild shape is really useful for non combat scenarios. You could turn into am animal for recon or stealth, and having more time for those is really important.
Sure but wouldn't more uses with the same exact rules do the same things ?
expanding the uses to stay in the form longer . if like the uses where 4 uses one hour . expanding the 4 uses would be exactly like expanding your two uses up to level 5 .
I made a hack where you get the exact number of hours but for a single use (half the druid level rounded down) but each hour = 1 slot . if you are normal druid thats a 1/4 CR worth moon druid thats a 1 CR worth . and you can combine them to get higher CR that way normal druids can go up to CR 2 at level 16 and Moon Druids can go up to CR 8 at level 16 or CR 10 for 20 . (I posted here but I got no feedback at all except one poll result -need more balance- which didnt say anything useful)
and that gives you the option to either go something small and stay longer in that form or go super nova all out for one hour .
and remember that druids can take a short rest as an animal form .
if you want to go even further as a hack says that you can expend spell slots for wild shape slots 1 per level or 1 per 2 level slots .
its just really weird design choice to go from 2 uses only at level 2 through level 19 to UNLIMITED UNSTOPPABLE GONNA WRECK EVERYTHING at level 20 . dosent make sense .
its the only class that does this . the only other class that get unlimited stuff at level 20 is the Barbarian number of rages at level 20 but they got two things .
1) the barbarian rages numbers get increased regularly .
2) at level 15 they get persistent rage which basically makes it unlimited .
yes the rage is limited for one minute normally or ends early if he doesn't attack or take damage for a round (a good player will just bite his lips) but thats a Fight ability only . and two most fights dont last a minute !!!
at first I considered making something like the druid spend one minute per turn for wild shape if they are in combat but that required like a lot of calculations at the player side so I descarted the Idea and ended up with the time slots thing .
and if they just want to make it VERY SIMPLE just make it so the druid can wild shape number of times equal to wisdom modifier .
Lead designer of: Druid Wild Shape Revised, Druid: Circle of Monstrosity (Homebrew class), Revised Classes : Focus on level 20.
Homebrewer of: Halwasa`s Mushrooms of fluid movement (Item), Giraffe (Beast), Displacer Panther (Beast) (heavily modified Displacer Beast that is owned by WoC), Lightning whip (2nd-level Spell), Lesser Shapechange (5th-level Spell), Investiture of Lightning (6th-level Spell), Touched by the magic (Feat).
if you consider Wild Shape is the level 4 Polymorph spell and that only lasts 1 hour. The Wild Shape ability uses your characters magic resource and then can last up to half your level in hours. This is a big drain on your battery which is why the use is limited until you get to level 20.
thats not a cool answer . if thats so then give us the ability to cut down that "Power draining ability" for more uses .... Give us the Option to do so.
please check my thread and my two cents on how to rework the class feature and give me feedback:
Druid Wild Shape revisited
Lead designer of: Druid Wild Shape Revised, Druid: Circle of Monstrosity (Homebrew class), Revised Classes : Focus on level 20.
Homebrewer of: Halwasa`s Mushrooms of fluid movement (Item), Giraffe (Beast), Displacer Panther (Beast) (heavily modified Displacer Beast that is owned by WoC), Lightning whip (2nd-level Spell), Lesser Shapechange (5th-level Spell), Investiture of Lightning (6th-level Spell), Touched by the magic (Feat).
The duration of Wild Shape and the power of the Wild Shape form increases as you level, but the number of times you can do it does not (until you reach level 20 and get unlimited Wild Shapes). I suspect the reason for that is the concern that a Druid with 6 charges of Wild Shape (for example) would have a really huge pool of temporary HP at his disposal. So I'm guessing it's a balance issue.
Heya, just came across this. its worth mentioning for those struggling to maintain a form for HP reasons. Don't forget that you also have the ability to sacrifice spell slots for healing. If you are using more of your time in form to fight, odds are you aren't casting spells so they may as well use as healing fuel. I would gander its the same the other way, where when you arent taking damage and holding likely a spot away from melee, then you are likely to be casting spells.
Honestly i just want a formal chart to increase CR of normally lower cr creatures, to bring them up to par. chances are ill want a bigger cooler shape than dire wolf at say 16th level, but what IF i WANT to shape into a dire wolf with stats for that of a CR 5 Dire wolf. i mean im sure i could either discuss it with my DM if/when that comes up but really wished there might be a guide/aid that would be geared towards player druids. I recognize there are rules for improving CR of a creature but with how fluid sometimes CR can be it may be hard to balance otherwise.
This is a class defining feature, but it's also not even a tiny bit under-powered. If you want something similar, go look at the warlock's spell slots. They get 2. They recharge on short rests. They increase in potency as levels go up. The other aspects of the class make up for the "underpowered" nature of their casting abilities. Similarly, the other aspects of the Druid Class (full caster, D8 HP, full access to spell list, ritual casting) compliment the shape changing rather well IMHO.
I've played a druid, I also remember the "good old days" of playing one in 3/3.5E which was closer to what you describe. They're fine the way they are, and seem more than capable of filling several varied roles in a party.
But, like with anything in this game: by all means homebrew what works best for your game. If you feel you need to flash in and out of beast form constantly, and that without that ability the other players in your group are showing you up, change things up. Most of the people in the game's I've played have stuck with RAW characters from the PHB, and I've never felt that a Druid was unable to hold his own with them. But, YMMV.
Well when a druid get focus fire at because its the scary easy to hit target your form will drop in 2 rounds.
Well you can rest every fight no because alot of time ... well time matters.
Well you are still Denied of important essential half of your class. that is the spell caster Until level 18. that means if you ever want to ever cast a class need to de-change and spent a use. if you want to just enter a small space or to reconasanse you have to expend one use. of only 2 uses,
Its just unreasonable to get a Huge power up from only 2 the entirety of an adventure and get 30. I have played in a high intense game. the druid get dropped alot. I played tome of annihilation the druid was the first to die *though part of it because of multiple shitty rolls* . I played in an epic campaign as a druid even after level 20 they died and got brought back by a spell .
Lead designer of: Druid Wild Shape Revised, Druid: Circle of Monstrosity (Homebrew class), Revised Classes : Focus on level 20.
Homebrewer of: Halwasa`s Mushrooms of fluid movement (Item), Giraffe (Beast), Displacer Panther (Beast) (heavily modified Displacer Beast that is owned by WoC), Lightning whip (2nd-level Spell), Lesser Shapechange (5th-level Spell), Investiture of Lightning (6th-level Spell), Touched by the magic (Feat).
Personally, I do find that Wild Shape for the Moon Druid is rather stunted, but that's more of a function of crappy animal form options in the MM than anything else. For example - bears are pretty much the only official Beast option that gives you more than one attack naturally for most of your adventuring career. So, for the majority of your shapeshifting career, you'll be some variation of bear. Pretty much anything else is an open invitation to be ignored. Bears are awesome at low levels, admittedly, but by level 4, they're only middling, and behind the curve everywhere else. And they're the best option until you get elemental forms. And the elemental forms are the best shape until -maybe- level 18 or so. That's a long time with your primary style of play not growing in ability.
Now, I primarily play in a game where short rests can't be counted on showing up every two encounters. Sometimes, we get short rests between every fight, sometimes all the encounters happen in a very rapid timing. It all depends on the story, which means that, when shapeshifted for combat, you're going to be staying in that combat form. That means that you won't be able to de-shift for spells whenever needed, you won't be able to shift into a bird form for exploring, etc. Short rest recharge classes / subclasses are VERY dependent upon the GM. Warlock, the Monk, the Moon Druid, various Fighters... they all play vastly different if you cannot count on having short rests. As such, you'll have different experiences depending on the table. Which is very annoying - I would certainly never recommend the moon druid at my game! Its simply a terrible, terrible option.
I think it would probably have been a good idea to grant one more use of wild-shape at middling levels, but remember everyone plays the game differently, so while people who don't get short rests often enough are hampered by the 2 wild-shapes a short rest, those who DO get plenty of short rests would be WAY to powerful if the were to get access to too many.
That said I'm going to talking with my DM to see about creating a magic item that gives me one extra wild-shape per long rest. My intent will be to reserve this item until I absolutely need it. It will also allow me to be a bit more flexible when doing the elemental shapes.
That said I think there's some stuff that's being overlooked by others in this thread.
1) Wild shape damage output doesn't scale well at certain level ranges but it does not lose it's utility. While I'm currently only at third level and the bear form is a pretty strong, I don't always jump straight into that form. I often take the dire wolf form and run in with my party monk or fighter. With advantage I rarely miss, and the enemy is always rolling for trip. Eventually when the enemy goes down, my melee buddy is going to rip the heck out of them because now they have advantage. I also take giant spider shape quite a bit. There's nothing quite like being able to climb a wall and help out in the middle of a choke point, and the web ability is pretty decent too. Eventually when I get access to fly speed, I'm going to be hell for the DM to deal with. Wizard is already talking about casting Dragon's Breath on me, and I"m looking really hard at potion of fire breath.
2) Don't forget Wild-shape is a bonus action for Moonies... there's value in being able to shift into an animal form move and attack, but I think it's better to cast a spell, shift and move into melee. Most of the time a enemy is going to take advantage of that low AC target that just ran into their range. Yes, you're going to take damage, but that's damage that isn't going to the rest of the party. Damage dealt to you in animal form is way less valuable to your opponent than damage dealt to another PC. No healer is going to waste a spell on an injured druid in animal form once they understand how wild-shape HP pools work so you'll be saving their resources.
3) Moonies can heal themselves as a bonus action in animal form. That's actually pretty powerful. You're burning spells slots yeah, but you're also extending your animal shape and you weren't using those spells slots anyhow. Most of the best druid spells are concentration anyhow so you're never going to have a whole lot of spells running at the same time anyhow.
4) Despite all that I've mentioned above even Moonies are casters first. Take advantage of that. Not every fight should start with you turning into a bear and going berserk. Evaluate the battle. Toss an entangle and make sure it sticks, if it doesn't try something else. Faerie Fire is everyone's best friend,. We've got some interesting CC, and damage. One strat that my EK and I are going to try is to use moonbeam and booming blade. The idea is to force the enemy to make a choice when they're anchored with booming blade. Move take the booming blade damage and the moonbeam damage then force me to use my action to move moonbeam. Or stay put, take moonbeam, avoid booming blade, and risk getting mauled (when I eventually shift).