Not to mention, a fighters action surge, second wind, and some of it's subclass stuff back on a short rest. So you're just as good 6 battles into the day as when you started. Meanwhile you're wizard is digging a hole to die in.
They would be, but they dumped Str and it’s more suitable for a potted plant than a person.
Fighters are great when you consider that the subclasses offer tremendous variation in how to play the game. Battlemaster and Echo Knight taking the lead for non-caster classes that can make interesting choices.
Fighters are great when you consider that the subclasses offer tremendous variation in how to play the game. Battlemaster and Echo Knight taking the lead for non-caster classes that can make interesting choices.
and i was never complaining about the subclasses ether, heck the first sentence of my post was "so the fighter subclasses are really cool and have good features", it is just that you do not get subclasses for a while and i did not feel that its other features were that stellar
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Fighters are great when you consider that the subclasses offer tremendous variation in how to play the game. Battlemaster and Echo Knight taking the lead for non-caster classes that can make interesting choices.
and i was never complaining about the subclasses ether, heck the first sentence of my post was "so the fighter subclasses are really cool and have good features", it is just that you do not get subclasses for a while and i did not feel that its other features were that stellar
The thing is that you can't just go comparing classes without comparing subclasses as well. Power is distributed differently between those two depending on which class you look at.
The paladin or monk, for example, completely frontload their power into the core class (smite, lay on hands, aura; flurry of blows, stunning strike) with the subclasses bringing mainly flavor or some neat extra tricks. For the ranger and fighter, however, all subclasses immediately start out with a way to increase your base damage.The barbarian seems to fall a bit in the middle of this, with the base class having some decent power but the subclasses still adding some nice stuff as well. I'm not sure where exactly the spellcasters fall in this spectrum but i feel like they generally tend towards most of the power being contained in the core class, simply because that's where the spells come from.
If you are looking at tbe Fighter and thinking "this doesn't do much outside of attacking things" then I have to question if you are actually playing as a Fighter. Simplicity of features does not equate to being boring.
Tell me, what is so creative about playing a spellcaster who likely has a spell that allows them to brute force a situation by charming the guard or opening a disarming a trap from distance, risk free? I'd argue that the most creative players are the ones who find solutions and interact with the game beyond what their class abilities suggests, and thats what the Fighter class helps facilitates: creativity through ingenuity.
The class features primarily focus on combat because at their core that is what they are meant to be; the fighter. Its up to the player to be anything beyond that with a number of subclasses to help further whatever concept you are looking for.
I’ll reiterate - poor Feat choices make Fighters dull boys.
If I see one more Champion taking a bunch of passive Feats to round out their passive Class Features... and then complain that Champions are boring, I’m going to lose my soul. Hahaha
Fighters usually have the FEWEST ability score dependencies, and 7 Feats to choose from. Make every single one count.
Wirh Piercer, Slasher, and Crusher, Shield Master, Tavern Brawler, Healer, Defensive Duellist, Sentinel, GWM, PAM, etc etc... you have some serious action options out there. I’d take any of those before another +2 CON ASI any day.
Fighter variety comes in the form of feat choices. Especially if you come across a Gauntlet of Ogre Power (or one of the belts). Snag that, and suddenly every ASI is a feat.
You get less feats than 3e, but Fighter is still about the feat combos that make the Fighter really shine. Honestly, the only reason we don't have more variety in Fighters is in no small part to the lack of feats. Like, it wouldn't hurt WotC to drop more feats, given that spells drop pretty much all the time.
Build a dexterity fighter with rapier, paired shortswords, and a longbow, take the piercing feat. Every weapon you carry benefits from it. You could also play Eldritch Knight with Artificer Initiate to get Cure Wounds and Guidance from the Artificer list, giving you a variety of hurt and heal and support spells.
Ah yes a rouges sneak on critical that works only once in combat is DEFINITELY better than the fighters Action Surge (Most of my DMs would laugh at you cause they fear Action Surge than any other abilities in the game)... Meanwhile my BattleMaster Fighter killed 2 dragons in 1 turn while I had a min/maxing rogue in the party who didn't do crap to them and my little brother who had a dex archer fighter 1 shotting every enemy (was more effective blaster than any of the spellcasters in the party)
Most people in my group played a fighter at least once and they all agree its the best dps class in the game. [REDACTED]
Notes: Please remain respectful in your discussion
is DEFINITELY better than the fighters Action Surge (Most of my DMs would laugh at you cause they fear Action Surge than any other abilities in the game)... Meanwhile my BattleMaster Fighter killed 2 dragons in 1 turn while I had a min/maxing rogue in the party who didn't do crap to them and my little brother who had a dex archer fighter 1 shotting every enemy (was more effective blaster than any of the spellcasters in the party)
Battle Masters are more dangerous than Rogues overall, which isn't really news, but Rogues are definitionally better at one-shotting than Fighters are (Fighters use attack volume as part of their DPR). Killing 2 1-hp dragons in 1 turn is not very impressive, and you didn't provide any context to think otherwise.
Most people in my group played a fighter at least once and they all agree its the best dps class in the game.
I think you mean DPR. It absolutely is or is not depending on your assumptions - I can easily present you with a fight where it isn't, just like I can present you with a fight where it is.
[REDACTED]
You understand that the rest of the party, the DM, and the campaign context all matter a lot, right?
Fighter: After years of building feats, class and subclass features, and collecting the right items I can finally kill 2, 1 health dragons
Rogue: So a while back I took magic initiate. With magic initiate I gain the ability to cast find familiar and my familiar can use the help action every turn on me to give me advantage and sneak attack.
Wizard: You guys need to think about your actions? (flying through dimensions killing things with a single word or a point of the finger before heading back to their castle of minions preparing the surprise moment when they become an unstoppable BBEG)
It may be a bit nitch, but in a Party with 2 (or more) melee fighters, knocking an opponent prone and then going Nova with Action Surge can be quite impressive.
I have two new players playing a Champion and a Battle Master, and they just reached level 5. It's taken them a while, but they are now starting to understand why I gave the Champion a free Shield Master feat and the Battle Master a free Martial Adept feat.
First off, as a lover of weapons and someone who-not just in dnd-prefers skill and training over magic mystical abilities and magic, I love the fighter. It always has been and always will be my favorite class. I love the versatility of it, like, how you can do anything from a master archer who can rain down four arrows in as many second to a warhammer-wielding tank to a spellsword to a top-notch duelist, you can do so many things with it. It’s got awesome weapon and armor proficiencies, the fighting style makes for a lot of fun things (my personal favorite being dual wielding) and the abilities are, in my opinion, pretty good. I love the action surge. It’s crazy to be able to take five attacks at fifth level.
Anyway, I know it’s not able to take classes like wizard on in a 1v1 (at higher levels, anyway.) but that’s not how it’s supposed to work. You’re supposed to have a well balanced party, and if you need a PC who’s both tanky and dishes out lots of damage, you can’t go wrong with the fighter.
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They would be, but they dumped Str and it’s more suitable for a potted plant than a person.
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Fighters are great when you consider that the subclasses offer tremendous variation in how to play the game. Battlemaster and Echo Knight taking the lead for non-caster classes that can make interesting choices.
and i was never complaining about the subclasses ether, heck the first sentence of my post was "so the fighter subclasses are really cool and have good features", it is just that you do not get subclasses for a while and i did not feel that its other features were that stellar
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
The thing is that you can't just go comparing classes without comparing subclasses as well. Power is distributed differently between those two depending on which class you look at.
The paladin or monk, for example, completely frontload their power into the core class (smite, lay on hands, aura; flurry of blows, stunning strike) with the subclasses bringing mainly flavor or some neat extra tricks. For the ranger and fighter, however, all subclasses immediately start out with a way to increase your base damage.The barbarian seems to fall a bit in the middle of this, with the base class having some decent power but the subclasses still adding some nice stuff as well. I'm not sure where exactly the spellcasters fall in this spectrum but i feel like they generally tend towards most of the power being contained in the core class, simply because that's where the spells come from.
If you are looking at tbe Fighter and thinking "this doesn't do much outside of attacking things" then I have to question if you are actually playing as a Fighter. Simplicity of features does not equate to being boring.
Tell me, what is so creative about playing a spellcaster who likely has a spell that allows them to brute force a situation by charming the guard or opening a disarming a trap from distance, risk free? I'd argue that the most creative players are the ones who find solutions and interact with the game beyond what their class abilities suggests, and thats what the Fighter class helps facilitates: creativity through ingenuity.
The class features primarily focus on combat because at their core that is what they are meant to be; the fighter. Its up to the player to be anything beyond that with a number of subclasses to help further whatever concept you are looking for.
I’ll reiterate - poor Feat choices make Fighters dull boys.
If I see one more Champion taking a bunch of passive Feats to round out their passive Class Features... and then complain that Champions are boring, I’m going to lose my soul. Hahaha
Fighters usually have the FEWEST ability score dependencies, and 7 Feats to choose from. Make every single one count.
Wirh Piercer, Slasher, and Crusher, Shield Master, Tavern Brawler, Healer, Defensive Duellist, Sentinel, GWM, PAM, etc etc... you have some serious action options out there. I’d take any of those before another +2 CON ASI any day.
Fighter variety comes in the form of feat choices. Especially if you come across a Gauntlet of Ogre Power (or one of the belts). Snag that, and suddenly every ASI is a feat.
You get less feats than 3e, but Fighter is still about the feat combos that make the Fighter really shine. Honestly, the only reason we don't have more variety in Fighters is in no small part to the lack of feats. Like, it wouldn't hurt WotC to drop more feats, given that spells drop pretty much all the time.
Build a dexterity fighter with rapier, paired shortswords, and a longbow, take the piercing feat. Every weapon you carry benefits from it. You could also play Eldritch Knight with Artificer Initiate to get Cure Wounds and Guidance from the Artificer list, giving you a variety of hurt and heal and support spells.
Ah yes a rouges sneak on critical that works only once in combat is DEFINITELY better than the fighters Action Surge (Most of my DMs would laugh at you cause they fear Action Surge than any other abilities in the game)... Meanwhile my BattleMaster Fighter killed 2 dragons in 1 turn while I had a min/maxing rogue in the party who didn't do crap to them and my little brother who had a dex archer fighter 1 shotting every enemy (was more effective blaster than any of the spellcasters in the party)
Most people in my group played a fighter at least once and they all agree its the best dps class in the game. [REDACTED]
rogue's
Not a thing.
Not a thing.
Battle Masters are more dangerous than Rogues overall, which isn't really news, but Rogues are definitionally better at one-shotting than Fighters are (Fighters use attack volume as part of their DPR). Killing 2 1-hp dragons in 1 turn is not very impressive, and you didn't provide any context to think otherwise.
I think you mean DPR. It absolutely is or is not depending on your assumptions - I can easily present you with a fight where it isn't, just like I can present you with a fight where it is.
You understand that the rest of the party, the DM, and the campaign context all matter a lot, right?
Fighter: After years of building feats, class and subclass features, and collecting the right items I can finally kill 2, 1 health dragons
Rogue: So a while back I took magic initiate. With magic initiate I gain the ability to cast find familiar and my familiar can use the help action every turn on me to give me advantage and sneak attack.
Wizard: You guys need to think about your actions? (flying through dimensions killing things with a single word or a point of the finger before heading back to their castle of minions preparing the surprise moment when they become an unstoppable BBEG)
[roll]7d6[/roll]
Every post these dice roll increasing my chances of winning the yahtzee thread (I wish (wait not the twist the wish threa-!))
Drummer Generated Title
After having been invited to include both here, I now combine the "PM me CHEESE 🧀 and tomato into PM me "PIZZA🍕"
It may be a bit nitch, but in a Party with 2 (or more) melee fighters, knocking an opponent prone and then going Nova with Action Surge can be quite impressive.
I have two new players playing a Champion and a Battle Master, and they just reached level 5. It's taken them a while, but they are now starting to understand why I gave the Champion a free Shield Master feat and the Battle Master a free Martial Adept feat.
Ok, just gonna throw my two cents in.
First off, as a lover of weapons and someone who-not just in dnd-prefers skill and training over magic mystical abilities and magic, I love the fighter. It always has been and always will be my favorite class. I love the versatility of it, like, how you can do anything from a master archer who can rain down four arrows in as many second to a warhammer-wielding tank to a spellsword to a top-notch duelist, you can do so many things with it. It’s got awesome weapon and armor proficiencies, the fighting style makes for a lot of fun things (my personal favorite being dual wielding) and the abilities are, in my opinion, pretty good. I love the action surge. It’s crazy to be able to take five attacks at fifth level.
Anyway, I know it’s not able to take classes like wizard on in a 1v1 (at higher levels, anyway.) but that’s not how it’s supposed to work. You’re supposed to have a well balanced party, and if you need a PC who’s both tanky and dishes out lots of damage, you can’t go wrong with the fighter.
If I haven’t offended you, don’t worry. I’m sure I’ll get to you eventually.