I recently switched characters in my campaign because I had played as a Ranger for so many sessions and not once had I used Hunter's Mark or Favored Enemy. It just felt like playing a downgraded Fighter.
However I have been trying to one-up the class features described in the Player's Handbook, and I redid the list. Please let me know what you think, and sorry for the horrendous formatting! I'm new to this 😔
(Note: Anything listed as *Class Feature* means it's replacing an old feature or being added as a new one.)
Level 1. Hunting Range You gain Advantage on certain rolls certain conditions occur within the range shown in the Territory table. When you finish a Long Rest, choose one of the following options. Meteorology. You are immediately alerted of the current weather within a sphere with a radius of 60ft more than your Territory. Potential Threats. Roll a number of d4s equal to your Proficiency Bonus. You know the locations of that many traps or other threats within your Territory. Territorial Mark. As a Bonus Action, you can choose a number of creatures equal to your Proficiency Bonus. Attack rolls you, and up to 5 allies of your choice, make against them have Advantage, and the attacks count as magical for the purpose of ignoring resistance. (Note: This effect replaces any mention of Hunter's Mark in Subclass features, (example: See Hunter subclass feature Level 3: Hunter's Lore) Darkvision. Your Darkvision range increases by the range listed in your Territory.
Level 6: Protective Territory Any creatures you choose within your Territory gain a +1 Bonus to their AC.
Level 9. Truesight As a Bonus Action, choose either Truesight, Blindsight or Tremorsense. You gain that effect with a range equalling your Territory for 1 minute or until you lose Concentration. You can use this feature once before a Short or Long Rest.
Level 17. Prowling Ranger You can have up to two effects listed in the Hunting Range class feature active at once.
A continuously expanding aura that grants effectively the entire party advantage against 2-6 targets for what appears to be the entire duration of a fight- well, really it seems like it just permanently grants advantage by a literal reading, but I’m assuming that’s not the intent- is rather overpowered. For context, consider that Faerie Fire only covers a 4x4 square, requires a DEX save, takes a full action to use, and is a concentration effect. I understand the concept, but this is an awful lot of “something for nothing”, and that’s before we consider what turning subclass features designed to be tied to a single target concentration effect into aura effects would do. This also badly nerfs ranged Rangers, as ideally ranged attackers like to be 30’ or more away from the center of combat.
Frankly, this reads like you’re simply too risk-averse to use Hunter’s Mark, and so want an effect that’s all upside and no risk.
I played a 2024 ranger for a few sessions in a game (until the game collapsed as they too often do). I found it over powered.
At level 1 a normal turn was 1D4+3D6+3 damage. That's a bonus action for hunter's mark, a thrown dagger with nick mastery and also a thrown handaxe, along with two hunter's mark impacts. The damage I did at level 1 was consistently about double what anyone else in the party could manage. This can be increased with the not super well balanced bugbear which can add 2D6 to BOTH of these attacks (1D4+7D6+3).
The skills at level 1 were pretty great. Most classes get 2 skills, this class gets 50% more. It's also a solid list. The 1D10 hit points were great and this made me able to tank as well as anyone else. The ability to do backup healing was fantastic. I was able to do as much healing as anyone else. We regularly needed survival skill to find our way around, we also regularly needed to pass perception checks. Starting the game with anywhere between 5 and 9 skill proficiencies is a pretty big deal (assuming you don't go overboard and try to take the skilled origin feat twice). Having 2 free casts of hunter's mark was pretty awesome. Most tables play 1-3 fights per long rest. This generally means you ALWAYS have a really impactful spell to cast in combat.
The level 2 enhancements were pretty awesome! Getting 2 more languages is big for social encounters. Getting expertise on a skill is pretty fantastic! I ended up with +7 perception and a 17 passive perception which is VERY impactful. The fighting style wasn't bad either.
The level 3 stuff is where things started to really come to life. The build was even more over powered at this point with beastmaster. I was a small species with the ability to ride my spirit companion which increased my speed to 40 basically for free. This also gave me a bonus attack every round to add to all the other damage I was doing.
The campaign ended here ... but it was set to just continue getting more and more powerful with the build I had in mind. Genuinely, I have no idea why people are so upset about the ranger. Try playing it. It's dope!
To maximize hunter's mark you (obviously) want to maximize the number of attacks you have per round. And, ideally you want to be able to focus these attacks on the same target. And, that happens to be an AWESOME way to play D&D because, mechanically, focusing damage on a single target to remove it from the board is a big deal.
At level 5 the ranger is able to do up to 8 attacks in a single round. And, 5 of these attacks can apply hunter's mark damage. That's 5D6 damage from a level 1 spell you were able to cast for free. That's what hunter's mark is capable of. No idea how you managed to not cast it as a ranger .. but do understand where if you ignore it the class would feel lame. I imagine if you were a barbarian who never raged, or a rogue who never used sneak attack those classes would feel lame, too.
Did I feel like a ranger? Well, I feel like most of that has to do with role play, and I certainly did! But, mechanically, the class gave me access to skills like survival, animal handling, athletics, nature, perception, and stealth. Those things help. It also gave me more languages and helped to make me REALLY exceptional at one skill (which can make you WAY better than almost anyone else in the party at that thing ... which can reinforce your ... ability to know things about nature, or survival checks or whatever thing helps make YOU feel like a ranger). For me personally, the role play of the spirit animal companion with my subclass added a lot.
Is the class a downgraded fighter? Dude ... what? Historically, the class is a combination of fighter/rogue/druid. And, if you're balanced ... it means you're a little of each. Not a one for one copy of each which would make you 3 times stronger than a fighter (duh). The ranger has WAY better skill selection. It also has more skills. It also gets more languages (that's your history of traveling ... and you can role play that). You're able to tank as well as a fighter (generally). You're able to heal others which a fighter can't really do (this can be huge). You've got the same weapon ability and almost the same weapon mastery (at lower levels ... and most people aren't using 3-5 weapon masteries in a single long rest ... cool if you do ... MOST people don't ... especially not once they get a magic weapon they're happy with).
Can the fighter manage 1D4+3D6+3 at level 1? Or, 1D4+7D6+3 at level one with that crap bugbear species? Not just for one single round. I mean turn after turn after turn. Can the fighter manage 1D4+4D10+5D6+1D8+5+9 damage at level 5? Round after round not a once per short rest burst. That's assuming no magic weapons and a strength of 16 and a wisdom of 16 and only using the 2024 player's handbook. Also assuming the sentinel feat triggers which is more likely with a beast master companion pet in range, and also assuming two targets within 10 feet of you. None of those assumptions are crazy ... most fights are with more than one attacker, and most fights don't have all attackers focusing down a single player.
The ranger is a damage POWER HOUSE if you build for it. It's also a pretty solid skill monkey in a way that a fighter cannot mimic (I don't know how often people play a human fighter with the skilled origin feat). The ranger can also heal in a way that the fighter can't mimic (not just a once per short rest selfish self heal). The ranger can also do some battlefield manipulation and control in ways that fighter's cannot mimic. And, the ranger can be all of these things at the exact same time.
So ... no, the class isn't a downgraded fighter.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I recently switched characters in my campaign because I had played as a Ranger for so many sessions and not once had I used Hunter's Mark or Favored Enemy. It just felt like playing a downgraded Fighter.
However I have been trying to one-up the class features described in the Player's Handbook, and I redid the list. Please let me know what you think, and sorry for the horrendous formatting! I'm new to this 😔
(Note: Anything listed as *Class Feature* means it's replacing an old feature or being added as a new one.)
Level - Proficiency Bonus - Class Features - Territory - Prepared Spells
1 /+2 Spellcasting, Weapon Mastery, *Hunting Range* /10ft /2
2 /+2 Deft Explorer, Fighting Style /15ft /2
3 /+2 Subclass /15ft /3
4 /+2 Feat /20ft /3
5 /+3 Extra Attack /20ft /*3*
6 /+3 Roving, *Protective Territory* /25ft /4
7 /+3 Subclass /25ft /4
8 /+3 Feat /30ft /4
9 /+4 Expertise, *Truesight* /30ft /4
10 /+4 Tireless /35ft /*5*
11 /+4 Subclass /35ft /*5*
12 /+4 Feat /40ft /*5*
13 /+5 *Two Extra Attacks* /40ft /*5*
14 /+5 Nature's Veil /45ft /*5*
15 /+5 Subclass /45ft /*5*
16 /+5 Feat /50ft /*6*
17 /+6 *Prowling Ranger* /50ft /*6*
18 /+6 Feral Senses /55ft /*6*
19 /+6 Epic Boon Feat /55ft /*6*
20 /+6 Foe Slayer /60ft /*6*
Level 1. Hunting Range
You gain Advantage on certain rolls certain conditions occur within the range shown in the Territory table. When you finish a Long Rest, choose one of the following options.
Meteorology. You are immediately alerted of the current weather within a sphere with a radius of 60ft more than your Territory.
Potential Threats. Roll a number of d4s equal to your Proficiency Bonus. You know the locations of that many traps or other threats within your Territory.
Territorial Mark. As a Bonus Action, you can choose a number of creatures equal to your Proficiency Bonus. Attack rolls you, and up to 5 allies of your choice, make against them have Advantage, and the attacks count as magical for the purpose of ignoring resistance. (Note: This effect replaces any mention of Hunter's Mark in Subclass features, (example: See Hunter subclass feature Level 3: Hunter's Lore)
Darkvision. Your Darkvision range increases by the range listed in your Territory.
Level 6: Protective Territory
Any creatures you choose within your Territory gain a +1 Bonus to their AC.
Level 9. Truesight
As a Bonus Action, choose either Truesight, Blindsight or Tremorsense. You gain that effect with a range equalling your Territory for 1 minute or until you lose Concentration. You can use this feature once before a Short or Long Rest.
Level 17. Prowling Ranger
You can have up to two effects listed in the Hunting Range class feature active at once.
Aghhhhhh I dont know how to format questions >:(
A continuously expanding aura that grants effectively the entire party advantage against 2-6 targets for what appears to be the entire duration of a fight- well, really it seems like it just permanently grants advantage by a literal reading, but I’m assuming that’s not the intent- is rather overpowered. For context, consider that Faerie Fire only covers a 4x4 square, requires a DEX save, takes a full action to use, and is a concentration effect. I understand the concept, but this is an awful lot of “something for nothing”, and that’s before we consider what turning subclass features designed to be tied to a single target concentration effect into aura effects would do. This also badly nerfs ranged Rangers, as ideally ranged attackers like to be 30’ or more away from the center of combat.
Frankly, this reads like you’re simply too risk-averse to use Hunter’s Mark, and so want an effect that’s all upside and no risk.
yep, spot on.
I played a 2024 ranger for a few sessions in a game (until the game collapsed as they too often do). I found it over powered.
At level 1 a normal turn was 1D4+3D6+3 damage. That's a bonus action for hunter's mark, a thrown dagger with nick mastery and also a thrown handaxe, along with two hunter's mark impacts. The damage I did at level 1 was consistently about double what anyone else in the party could manage. This can be increased with the not super well balanced bugbear which can add 2D6 to BOTH of these attacks (1D4+7D6+3).
The skills at level 1 were pretty great. Most classes get 2 skills, this class gets 50% more. It's also a solid list. The 1D10 hit points were great and this made me able to tank as well as anyone else. The ability to do backup healing was fantastic. I was able to do as much healing as anyone else. We regularly needed survival skill to find our way around, we also regularly needed to pass perception checks. Starting the game with anywhere between 5 and 9 skill proficiencies is a pretty big deal (assuming you don't go overboard and try to take the skilled origin feat twice). Having 2 free casts of hunter's mark was pretty awesome. Most tables play 1-3 fights per long rest. This generally means you ALWAYS have a really impactful spell to cast in combat.
The level 2 enhancements were pretty awesome! Getting 2 more languages is big for social encounters. Getting expertise on a skill is pretty fantastic! I ended up with +7 perception and a 17 passive perception which is VERY impactful. The fighting style wasn't bad either.
The level 3 stuff is where things started to really come to life. The build was even more over powered at this point with beastmaster. I was a small species with the ability to ride my spirit companion which increased my speed to 40 basically for free. This also gave me a bonus attack every round to add to all the other damage I was doing.
The campaign ended here ... but it was set to just continue getting more and more powerful with the build I had in mind. Genuinely, I have no idea why people are so upset about the ranger. Try playing it. It's dope!
To maximize hunter's mark you (obviously) want to maximize the number of attacks you have per round. And, ideally you want to be able to focus these attacks on the same target. And, that happens to be an AWESOME way to play D&D because, mechanically, focusing damage on a single target to remove it from the board is a big deal.
At level 5 the ranger is able to do up to 8 attacks in a single round. And, 5 of these attacks can apply hunter's mark damage. That's 5D6 damage from a level 1 spell you were able to cast for free. That's what hunter's mark is capable of. No idea how you managed to not cast it as a ranger .. but do understand where if you ignore it the class would feel lame. I imagine if you were a barbarian who never raged, or a rogue who never used sneak attack those classes would feel lame, too.
Did I feel like a ranger? Well, I feel like most of that has to do with role play, and I certainly did! But, mechanically, the class gave me access to skills like survival, animal handling, athletics, nature, perception, and stealth. Those things help. It also gave me more languages and helped to make me REALLY exceptional at one skill (which can make you WAY better than almost anyone else in the party at that thing ... which can reinforce your ... ability to know things about nature, or survival checks or whatever thing helps make YOU feel like a ranger). For me personally, the role play of the spirit animal companion with my subclass added a lot.
Is the class a downgraded fighter?
Dude ... what? Historically, the class is a combination of fighter/rogue/druid. And, if you're balanced ... it means you're a little of each. Not a one for one copy of each which would make you 3 times stronger than a fighter (duh). The ranger has WAY better skill selection. It also has more skills. It also gets more languages (that's your history of traveling ... and you can role play that). You're able to tank as well as a fighter (generally). You're able to heal others which a fighter can't really do (this can be huge). You've got the same weapon ability and almost the same weapon mastery (at lower levels ... and most people aren't using 3-5 weapon masteries in a single long rest ... cool if you do ... MOST people don't ... especially not once they get a magic weapon they're happy with).
Can the fighter manage 1D4+3D6+3 at level 1? Or, 1D4+7D6+3 at level one with that crap bugbear species? Not just for one single round. I mean turn after turn after turn. Can the fighter manage 1D4+4D10+5D6+1D8+5+9 damage at level 5? Round after round not a once per short rest burst. That's assuming no magic weapons and a strength of 16 and a wisdom of 16 and only using the 2024 player's handbook. Also assuming the sentinel feat triggers which is more likely with a beast master companion pet in range, and also assuming two targets within 10 feet of you. None of those assumptions are crazy ... most fights are with more than one attacker, and most fights don't have all attackers focusing down a single player.
The ranger is a damage POWER HOUSE if you build for it. It's also a pretty solid skill monkey in a way that a fighter cannot mimic (I don't know how often people play a human fighter with the skilled origin feat). The ranger can also heal in a way that the fighter can't mimic (not just a once per short rest selfish self heal). The ranger can also do some battlefield manipulation and control in ways that fighter's cannot mimic. And, the ranger can be all of these things at the exact same time.
So ... no, the class isn't a downgraded fighter.