I honestly don't remember any backlash from the phb2 during 3.5. It was just another book in a loooong line of books. I can't speak for 4e though, I went to Pathfinder at that time that also had a loooong line of books.
it was no more required than anything from the Complete series or Races of series
You’re right, most of the backlash came from the old heads who went from at least a decade of 2e, then they had to get used to AD&D, or just keep playing an unsupported game, almost another decade went by before 3.0 happened and then all of a sudden to 3.5 in under half a decade, with rumors of 4e coming right around the corner. It was too much. You think those editions had looooong lines of books? 2e has a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong Line of books. Luckily for me I jumped from OD&D to AD&D right in the beginning, so for me it wasn’t that bad. But still, I bailed on D&D and MtG from the early 2000s until the last couple of years because of how frustrated I was with WotC. I still only rarely play Magic, and don’t buy any new cards anymore.
oh yes, i have seen a lot of those through my um.... completely legitimate source of older edition content that is defenetly in no way technnically illegal, we have the complete thief's handbook, the complete warriors handbook, the complete dwarf's handbook, the complete barbarian's handbook, the complete priest's handbook, players option: skills and powers, players option: spells and magic, demihumans of the realms, wizards and rouges of the realms, wizard spell compendium volume 1, volume 2, volume 3, volume 4, everything in spelljammer.
Yeah they had a lot of stuff. Anyways what even IS advanced dungeons and dragons, like i hear people mention it like every now and again when dealing with editions of this era, but like what is it?
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
In 3.5 the PHB2 had a handful of new classes, some Variant rules for the original classes (like the UA), new Feats, new Spells and few other optional rules. It was NOT a core book nor did it contain anything presented in the PHB. It was a supplemental book just like all the others. Just like the Monster Manuals 2-5 were not core books and had no reprinted monsters from the first Monster Manual.
Will they make another book called the PHB2, no I don't think they will. Have they already put out books with similar content. Yes they have and the Variant Class options UA is proof that they will continue to do so.
I honestly don't remember any backlash from the phb2 during 3.5. It was just another book in a loooong line of books. I can't speak for 4e though, I went to Pathfinder at that time that also had a loooong line of books.
it was no more required than anything from the Complete series or Races of series
You’re right, most of the backlash came from the old heads who went from at least a decade (possibly up to 2) of OD&D, some of whom switched to AD&D in the early ‘90s, many though did not. Then in the late ‘90s TSR stopped supporting OD&D and only supported AD&D so they had to get used to AD&D, or just keep playing an unsupported game. About 3ish years after TSR stopped supporting OD&D 3.0 happened and then all of a sudden to 3.5 in under half a decade, with rumors of 4e coming right around the corner. It was too much. You think those editions had looooong lines of books? 2e has a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong Line of books. Luckily for me I jumped from OD&D to AD&D right in the beginning, so for me it wasn’t that bad. But still, I bailed on D&D and MtG from the early/mid 2000s until the last couple of years because of how frustrated I was with WotC. I still only rarely play Magic, and don’t buy any new cards anymore.
Yeah, I remember very well the switch from 1st to 2nd, then to 3, then 3.5... I started playing in 81. There were a crap ton of books for 2nd, most were completely unnecessary. A lot of the people I played with at the time refused to switch because of WotC not really because of the rules. When 3.5 came out they felt justified in their choice.
I made the switch though reluctantly after reading through the books and thought that the changes were pretty good. I did not like the idea on switching to 4th, but instead wound up switching to Pathfinder and spent just as much in that switch as would have going to 4th but I am stubborn lol.
In original D&D (OD&D) there were no races. The original classes were Warrior, Magic User, Elf, and Dwarf. When 2e happened they changed it to Fighter, Arcane Magic User (Wizard), Divine Magic User (Cleric), Thief, Elf, Dwarf, and Halfling. Those were your available classes. There were no backgrounds, races, subclasses, none of that. You rolled your stats first, and then picked your class. Stats were rolled straight 3d6, and they were rolled in order. There were no Rituals, no Cantrips, everybody only had 1 attack forevers. There were no Bonus Actions, Reactions, Hit Dice, Short Rests. The list goes on.
When Advanced Dungeons & Dragons (AD&D) came out, all of a sudden there were Races and Classes!! All of a sudden you could be a Gnome or even a Half Elf!! There were various subspecies too! Multiclassing and Dual Classing (simular but different and hard to explain) were possible! There were 2 types of “Divine Magic Users” now, Clerics and Druids! There were two types of “Rogues” now, Thieves and Bards (early day Arcane Tricksters)!! There were three types of “Warriors” now, Fighters, Rangers, and Paladins!! “Wizards” could be “Mages” (non specialized) or “Specialists” (one for each of the 8 Schools of Magic)! Basically, the beginning of what are now “Subclasses.”
As you can probably tell, 5e is based more on AD&D than OD&D.
In original D&D (OD&D) there were no races. The original classes were Warrior, Magic User, Elf, and Dwarf. When 2e happened they changed it to Fighter, Arcane Magic User (Wizard), Divine Magic User (Cleric), Thief, Elf, Dwarf, and Halfling. Those were your available classes. There were no backgrounds, races, subclasses, none of that. You rolled your stats first, and then picked your class. Stats were rolled straight 3d6, and they were rolled in order. There were no Rituals, no Cantrips, everybody only had 1 attack forevers. There were no Bonus Actions, Reactions, Hit Dice, Short Rests. The list goes on.
When Advanced Dungeons & Dragons (AD&D) came out, all of a sudden there were Races and Classes!! All of a sudden you could be a Gnome or even a Half Elf!! There were various subspecies too! Multiclassing and Dual Classing (simular but different and hard to explain) were possible! There were 2 types of “Divine Magic Users” now, Clerics and Druids! There were two types of “Rogues” now, Thieves and Bards (early day Arcane Tricksters)!! There were three types of “Warriors” now, Fighters, Rangers, and Paladins!! “Wizards” could be “Mages” (non specialized) or “Specialists” (one for each of the 8 Schools of Magic)! Basically, the beginning of what are now “Subclasses.”
As you can probably tell, 5e is based more on AD&D than OD&D.
Only 1 minor correction, AD&D started in the late 70's with 1st edition. I still have a few of my favorite books from the time. Unearthed Arcana, Manual of the Planes and the Temple of Elemental Evil that included T1-4 along with a few other books.
Only 1 minor correction, AD&D started in the late 70's with 1st edition. I still have a few of my favorite books from the time. Unearthed Arcana, Manual of the Planes and the Temple of Elemental Evil that included T1-4 along with a few other books.
I stand corrected, I should have specified when AD&D 2e came out in the early ‘90s. (‘93, ‘94?) I personally switched from OD&D (started around ‘91/‘92 myself) to AD&D then.
What? Oh, I thought we all agreed that the Revised Ranger was a bit overtuned and that the Variant Ranger is just right. There is some minor dissent, but I think is old farts all generally agree with each other.
I personally love rangers!! However, I do agree that favoured enemy and environment can be very situational, and primeval awareness is awful. The class variants are good, but revised ranged is just horrible. It takes the fun away from them. And primal beasts are super cool and thematic. I just wish there was a beast of the water...
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'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
I agree, there should be a Beast of Water. The beast of land did get a swimming or climbing speed (your choice), but there should be an amphibious beast. I want a pet giant frog!
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
I agree, there should be a Beast of Water. The beast of land did get a swimming or climbing speed (your choice), but there should be an amphibious beast. I want a pet giant frog!
i have been thinking about an beast of the water and think it shoud be modeled after both the constrictor snake and the giant frog, both of whom have an attack that automatically restrains and grapples an opponent, an thing that might fit really well with an water based creature. Also having an water elemental shark works way better than an actiual shark.
Also if you wanna have an giant frog for your companion, play an beast master giant frog becuase that grapple mechanic makes them one of the best non-ua beasts in the game, if they hit the target is automatically restrained so everything has advantage against it, it has disadvantage on everything and it has disadvantage on saving throws against fireball, combo it with an evocation wizard and buy some armor for the damm thing and it will be the most valuable asset in the entire party, since the enemy needs to waste an action to escape and most enemies dont want to have disadvantage, also it can maybe swallow an goblin possibly
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I agree, there should be a Beast of Water. The beast of land did get a swimming or climbing speed (your choice), but there should be an amphibious beast. I want a pet giant frog!
i have been thinking about an beast of the water and think it shoud be modeled after both the constrictor snake and the giant frog, both of whom have an attack that automatically restrains and grapples an opponent, an thing that might fit really well with an water based creature. Also having an water elemental shark works way better than an actiual shark.
Also if you wanna have an giant frog for your companion, play an beast master giant frog becuase that grapple mechanic makes them one of the best non-ua beasts in the game, if they hit the target is automatically restrained so everything has advantage against it, it has disadvantage on everything and it has disadvantage on saving throws against fireball, combo it with an evocation wizard and buy some armor for the damm thing and it will be the most valuable asset in the entire party, since the enemy needs to waste an action to escape and most enemies dont want to have disadvantage, also it can maybe swallow an goblin possibly
It would also be cool to have an octopus pet. Grappling would apply here as well.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Yass!!! It could be the party mascot and we could call ourselves “Octopus Inc.”
Now I have the urge to play as a Sea Elf Beast Master with an Octopus Pet, along with a Triton Lurker in the Deep Chainlock (for aquatic familiar), a Simic Hybrid Aberrant Mind Sorcerer, and Locathah Storm Herald (sea) Barbarian.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Yass!!! It could be the party mascot and we could call ourselves “Octopus Inc.”
Now I have the urge to play as a Sea Elf Beast Master with an Octopus Pet, along with a Triton Lurker in the Deep Chainlock (for aquatic familiar), a Simic Hybrid Aberrant Mind Sorcerer, and Locathah Storm Herald (sea) Barbarian.
Octopus Inc. 🐙 We have our tentacles in everything.
oh yes, i have seen a lot of those through my um.... completely legitimate source of older edition content that is defenetly in no way technnically illegal, we have the complete thief's handbook, the complete warriors handbook, the complete dwarf's handbook, the complete barbarian's handbook, the complete priest's handbook, players option: skills and powers, players option: spells and magic, demihumans of the realms, wizards and rouges of the realms, wizard spell compendium volume 1, volume 2, volume 3, volume 4, everything in spelljammer.
Yeah they had a lot of stuff. Anyways what even IS advanced dungeons and dragons, like i hear people mention it like every now and again when dealing with editions of this era, but like what is it?
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
In 3.5 the PHB2 had a handful of new classes, some Variant rules for the original classes (like the UA), new Feats, new Spells and few other optional rules. It was NOT a core book nor did it contain anything presented in the PHB. It was a supplemental book just like all the others. Just like the Monster Manuals 2-5 were not core books and had no reprinted monsters from the first Monster Manual.
Will they make another book called the PHB2, no I don't think they will. Have they already put out books with similar content. Yes they have and the Variant Class options UA is proof that they will continue to do so.
She/Her College Student Player and Dungeon Master
Yeah, I remember very well the switch from 1st to 2nd, then to 3, then 3.5... I started playing in 81. There were a crap ton of books for 2nd, most were completely unnecessary. A lot of the people I played with at the time refused to switch because of WotC not really because of the rules. When 3.5 came out they felt justified in their choice.
I made the switch though reluctantly after reading through the books and thought that the changes were pretty good. I did not like the idea on switching to 4th, but instead wound up switching to Pathfinder and spent just as much in that switch as would have going to 4th but I am stubborn lol.
She/Her College Student Player and Dungeon Master
In original D&D (OD&D) there were no races. The original classes were Warrior, Magic User, Elf, and Dwarf. When 2e happened they changed it to Fighter, Arcane Magic User (Wizard), Divine Magic User (Cleric), Thief, Elf, Dwarf, and Halfling. Those were your available classes. There were no backgrounds, races, subclasses, none of that. You rolled your stats first, and then picked your class. Stats were rolled straight 3d6, and they were rolled in order. There were no Rituals, no Cantrips, everybody only had 1 attack forevers. There were no Bonus Actions, Reactions, Hit Dice, Short Rests. The list goes on.
When Advanced Dungeons & Dragons (AD&D) came out, all of a sudden there were Races and Classes!! All of a sudden you could be a Gnome or even a Half Elf!! There were various subspecies too! Multiclassing and Dual Classing (simular but different and hard to explain) were possible! There were 2 types of “Divine Magic Users” now, Clerics and Druids! There were two types of “Rogues” now, Thieves and Bards (early day Arcane Tricksters)!! There were three types of “Warriors” now, Fighters, Rangers, and Paladins!! “Wizards” could be “Mages” (non specialized) or “Specialists” (one for each of the 8 Schools of Magic)! Basically, the beginning of what are now “Subclasses.”
As you can probably tell, 5e is based more on AD&D than OD&D.
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WOW!! I didn't realize that so many people here are like 40 years older than me!! I thought that there would be at least some teenagers...
'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
I'll worldbuild for your DnD games!
Just a D&D enjoyer, check out my fiverr page if you need any worldbuilding done for ya!
Only 1 minor correction, AD&D started in the late 70's with 1st edition. I still have a few of my favorite books from the time. Unearthed Arcana, Manual of the Planes and the Temple of Elemental Evil that included T1-4 along with a few other books.
She/Her College Student Player and Dungeon Master
Hey!! I’m only 39!!! Lol
There are tons of children your own age to play with. There are also a ton of us old farts on here too. Sorry, I couldn’t resist. 😉
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So, how about that Ranger class?
She/Her College Student Player and Dungeon Master
I stand corrected, I should have specified when AD&D 2e came out in the early ‘90s. (‘93, ‘94?) I personally switched from OD&D (started around ‘91/‘92 myself) to AD&D then.
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I'm 18, so technically a teenager, but I still know a ton about 5e and D&D in general.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
What? Oh, I thought we all agreed that the Revised Ranger was a bit overtuned and that the Variant Ranger is just right. There is some minor dissent, but I think is old farts all generally agree with each other.
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I guess we really have beaten this dead horse into undeath and back again.
She/Her College Student Player and Dungeon Master
I personally love rangers!! However, I do agree that favoured enemy and environment can be very situational, and primeval awareness is awful. The class variants are good, but revised ranged is just horrible. It takes the fun away from them. And primal beasts are super cool and thematic. I just wish there was a beast of the water...
'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
I'll worldbuild for your DnD games!
Just a D&D enjoyer, check out my fiverr page if you need any worldbuilding done for ya!
Yup. Should we start telling them about having to walk to school? Hills and snow and bare feet and such?
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I agree, there should be a Beast of Water. The beast of land did get a swimming or climbing speed (your choice), but there should be an amphibious beast. I want a pet giant frog!
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
i have been thinking about an beast of the water and think it shoud be modeled after both the constrictor snake and the giant frog, both of whom have an attack that automatically restrains and grapples an opponent, an thing that might fit really well with an water based creature. Also having an water elemental shark works way better than an actiual shark.
Also if you wanna have an giant frog for your companion, play an beast master giant frog becuase that grapple mechanic makes them one of the best non-ua beasts in the game, if they hit the target is automatically restrained so everything has advantage against it, it has disadvantage on everything and it has disadvantage on saving throws against fireball, combo it with an evocation wizard and buy some armor for the damm thing and it will be the most valuable asset in the entire party, since the enemy needs to waste an action to escape and most enemies dont want to have disadvantage, also it can maybe swallow an goblin possibly
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
It would also be cool to have an octopus pet. Grappling would apply here as well.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Yass!!! It could be the party mascot and we could call ourselves “Octopus Inc.”
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Now I have the urge to play as a Sea Elf Beast Master with an Octopus Pet, along with a Triton Lurker in the Deep Chainlock (for aquatic familiar), a Simic Hybrid Aberrant Mind Sorcerer, and Locathah Storm Herald (sea) Barbarian.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Octopus Inc. 🐙 We have our tentacles in everything.
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Hardcovers, DDB & You
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Epic Boons on DDB