I’d up there number of spells know so at lower level they get a few more giving them the ability to have some situational spells without being useless, and at level 20 have them max out at 20 spells know. Giving them those 5 extra spells between levels 1-5 where it’s most needed.
My biggest problem with the sorcerer is that from level 15 up, there's just no real incentive to stick with it. If you go Draconic for example, over the next 6 levels you get one more metamagic option, Draconic Presence (which a bit pants in all honesty) and Sorcerous Restoration (which is a massive let down as a 20th level class feature!). Oh and 2 more spells... You may as well just take 6 levels in something else.
" I've heard a number of people say that the sorcerer isn't as good a choice as the wizard."
For what?
The sorcerer rides a Harley (without a crash helmet), never finished school, stays out late, swears, drinks neat vodka,carries three flick knives and is known for a fiery temper. His nickname, in contrast is "IceMan."
The wizard is a middle-aged accountant with an interest in family trees, gardening, and etymology. He likes to watch Antiques Roadshow and drives a nissan cashcow which he insists on pronouncing Kash-Kai as though it makes him cooler. He owns an entire set of Encyclopedia Brittanica and has a train set in the attic. If he even had a nick name, it would be "Goose."
Nate "Hellequin" Garrett Vs Gandalf "the Grey"? No contest.
We've a wiz and a sorc (me) in one of my current games and it's the other way around. She (wiz) basically got expelled for being a bit too focused on the whole ultimate power thing. He is a criminal who used his powers for spying and being sneaky more than anything else, and when it comes to dealing damage he struggles to control it, so he only uses it as a last resort. Both of them have accidentally killed people they shouldn't have. One felt guilty about it and asked the Cleric to bring them back, the other just said 'whoops' as she accidentally murdered a large group of tied up prisoners. We're a mostly good party ...mostly.
You say "it's the other way around" and then go on to prove my point. :)
The wizard was expelled for not upholding wizardly virtues....planning to take over the world instead of focusing on the upcoming finals and quidditch practice. Bad wizard!
The sorcerer is a criminal.
I can't disagree on the lame 'powers' offered in the last 5 levels though. By Level 15, perhaps most sorcerers should have matured enough to seek training/education rather than relying on the not-so endless wellspring of natural talent.
Level 20 Ability: I'm thinking 20hp per turn regeneration or all offensive spells explode for 3d6 fire/lightning/acid/whatever damage. Activate Haste as a bonus action, or Stoneskin. Destructive Wave anytime the sorcerer lands from a height of 5ft or more. Far Step as a reaction. Something better than regain 4 sorcery points whenever you finish a short rest.
Pretty much every spellcaster is going to look lackluster next to the wizard. Bard, warlock, sorcerer... I'd say only the cleric really stands in comparison. The wiz is probably one of the best designed class in the game. Sorcerer suffers from that more than most. Stories about the sorcerer being the cool one and the wizard an awkward geek aren't going to help the class - any story you make up for one, you can also do for the other - backgrounds for any class are unrestricted.
There's a lot we can do to spruce up the sorcerer. More sorcery points, more spells known, more spell list variety, more metamagic options. Actually, most of the things to improve sorcerer just tend to involve the word "more." Few can agree on what that "more" is however, I note. Which is kind of to be expected, I guess - everyone's got a different playstyle, so they all want different things depending on their playstyle. Personally, I would have liked to see the Dragon Soul be more dragon-like.
Side note - I will never understand why people think there's "nothing" at high levels on the sorcerer (or any caster really) - is access to Twinned Dominate Monster and Heightened Wish such a terrible option? I get people complaining about level 20 features, that's something people do for pretty much for two thirds of the classes. Don't want more metamagic? Fair enough for some people. One or two subclasses having a bad level? Okay, now that's a bit unfair, considering all subclass levels are hit or miss - there are some very good level 18 subclass options, but we can assume one of those bad options for the sake of argument. That said? How is access to some of the best spells in the game so easily dismissed?
I wish my Sorcerer could get a familiar without using a feat, or multi-class. But I like the limited spells if your working on a good concept your gonna have fun. My Sorcerer is not gonna be a Blaster he is gonna be Support and Manipulater. Which means his 1st metas will be Twinned and Subtle, he will still have some combat spells but that is why I went Shadow Magic instead of Dragon. I can still go with the Elemental Adept for the blasting but probably won't.
The god damn lack of resistance in draconic sorcerer. You have the scales why do you have to spend a sorcery point just to activate it?
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Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
The god damn lack of resistance in draconic sorcerer. You have the scales why do you have to spend a sorcery point just to activate it?
Right? There are already races with built-in resistance, so why can't it just be permanent? To top it off, it's triggered by casting a spell that uses your elemental damage type. If you want resistance to that damage type, odds are good that you're fighting something that also resists or is immune to that damage type.
Probably because an incentive to go dragonborn dragon sorcerer? That would be my guess anyways. The writers felt compelled to put in resistance, but because it would be redundant with dragonborn, it kinda became like this.
If there was a different way to treat some of the sorcs most potent powers to not be dependent on the dm. Subtle meta magic is the most broken thing in the game but you’d never know since most dms don’t enforce the things that make it so strong. Wild magic, the DM can break the main reason to play it. There’s gotta be a way to get those things not so Iffy on dm style of play.
id also like to see them Not force everyone to play fire sorc when they pick a dragon. Let’s get some other element spells in the roster at higher levels.
All of this.
I get 5e is supposed to be played a bit more loosely but Wild Sorcerer having its core feature's activation condition be 'whenever the DM remembers it exists' with no other guidance or caveat is pretty terrible.
The bit about Dragon being nudged overly toward Fire is something I think you can apply pretty broadly too. Part of the Sorcerer's concept is that it has a more limited spell selection, but in practice it ends up being too hard I think to build a themed sorcerer and from my experience as you go up the levels sorcerers start to look increasingly similar to each other.
This probably isn't huge, but at 6th level as sorcerer, using all 6 sorcery points, you can create a 4th level spell slot. Again, probably not huge, but 9d6 Fireball, or 5 ray Scorching Ray, etc. I'd just change that.
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This probably isn't huge, but at 6th level as sorcerer, using all 6 sorcery points, you can create a 4th level spell slot. Again, probably not huge, but 9d6 Fireball, or 5 ray Scorching Ray, etc. I'd just change that.
Are you saying this is too powerful? I mean foregoing all of your other metamagic for 1 4th level spell per day isn't much for a class that is currently the least powerful spellcasting class. They're underpowered as is, lets not nerf them even more.
Are they the least powerful? Compared to the warlock at least? I mean, sure, the wizard is far and away stronger than the other two, and its hard to compare support-based casters, but I was never sure if they should be considered worse than the warlock. I always wondered about that...
I'm not saying this is too powerful. I'm just saying that it is the only class that is able to cast a spell fourth level while at level 6. I guess it's not really even a problem, just wanted to bring it up.
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The sorcerer is a starker choice in 5e, and I think that's a good thing. It's a minimalist class--similar to a champion fighter or thief rogue--that allows players the chance to focus on game play rather than a complex menu of class features. Some of us prefer this character style. For other players and other play styles, you've got 8 different flavors of wizard, the warlock, the bard, eldritch knights, and trickster rogues to choose from for arcane casters.
Sorcerers feel distinct from wizards during actual game in my experience, despite the superficial similarities between classes. They are hard to play well because they require creativity with the use of their spells and experience with what spells stay useful over time.
I'd kind of like to see more metamagic options. I think for most situations, twin and quicken are obvious picks. Subtle I could see being useful in a heavy RP campaign. the rest of the options are kind of "meh" or very niche. They just don't call to me and make twin or quicken hard choices.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
1) Remove their needs for spell components/focuses completely like the 3.5 feat Eschew Material
2) Give them light armor profiency as well as profiency with martial weapons (since they don’t spend all their time studying)
3) increase their total amount of spells known to 21 at 20th level, spreading those extra 6 spells known in the early levels where Sorcerer feels the most restricted
4) Replenish Sorcer points on a short rest. The number of points recovered could be half their level or something suitable restricted
Quickly - a sorcerer cant create a 4th level spell at 6th, They dont have spell pool maximum high enough to do it (but nice try! :)
Why on earth would you expect a character who inherited its power to get great abilities late on? It gets them when it starts - wizards get no non class abilities except ritual prep and arc recovery till 17, I wont complain about having to wait to long for it but i can grumble that at T1 and T2 and T3 I really covet the sorcery points and metamagic combo - and damn but its a game changer. A sorcerer has few spell options, I agree. But metamagic used well? You can make a spell do things it was never expected to do. Or more simply burn spell slots that less than optimal to gain others / more meta magic - and if you make a poor decision there? You can just move that power back around - thats clearly amazing.
Sorcerers are not weak, The current subclasses and metamagic mean no two sorcerers ever need be the same.
WIzards and warlocks are again not weak, although mages may have to work out to keep up.
The nature of the sorcerer class asks you to make decisions for spells and for the most part keep them locked in - I would change this about the sorcerer description, preface it (and bard) under spell casting with an explanation that spell choices should be made wisely.
Another choice would be for elemental type sorcerers to make a choice do they want versatility or do they want every elemental spell to deal their element of damage permanently and irrevocably even if they dip into other classes to try and circumvent it. Unfortunately this could easily make some spells more easily effective than intended so I can see good reason to not introduce this.
Metamagic - a few people want more options but usually at the same time others mention only one or two 'prime' picks. Adding a new choice wont change that, it will at best alter the prime choice, and many of the metamagics are not considered at all which is a shame. Metamagic like spells choice can be utterly ineffective if the circumstances they apply to do not come up often. If you have a good scout and you know about foes at a distance though? engaging with extend spell is fantastic - with spell sniper as well you will probably have your opponents whittled down or hurt significantly before they can possibly return the favour. Think about your metamagics - how will you use them, how often will you use them and from there make your choice. Actually thats good advice when making any choices in general.
Have fun and choose something that is going to be fun for you and your party.
Quickly - a sorcerer cant create a 4th level spell at 6th, They dont have spell pool maximum high enough to do it (but nice try! :)
A 6th Level Sorcerer has 6 Sorcery Points. It costs 6 Sorcery Points to create a 4th Level Spell Slot. It does not limit the sorcerer to only making slots they normally have access to. So they can indeed create a 4th level spell slot. They are then free to cast any spell they know using that 4th level spell slot and the spell becomes 4th level if it can be upcasted (such as a Fireball).
Quickly - a sorcerer cant create a 4th level spell at 6th, They dont have spell pool maximum high enough to do it (but nice try! :)
A 6th Level Sorcerer has 6 Sorcery Points. It costs 6 Sorcery Points to create a 4th Level Spell Slot. It does not limit the sorcerer to only making slots they normally have access to. So they can indeed create a 4th level spell slot. They are then free to cast any spell they know using that 4th level spell slot and the spell becomes 4th level if it can be upcasted (such as a Fireball).
In addition, at 7th and 8th level, they can make 5th level slots.
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I’d up there number of spells know so at lower level they get a few more giving them the ability to have some situational spells without being useless, and at level 20 have them max out at 20 spells know. Giving them those 5 extra spells between levels 1-5 where it’s most needed.
My biggest problem with the sorcerer is that from level 15 up, there's just no real incentive to stick with it. If you go Draconic for example, over the next 6 levels you get one more metamagic option, Draconic Presence (which a bit pants in all honesty) and Sorcerous Restoration (which is a massive let down as a 20th level class feature!). Oh and 2 more spells... You may as well just take 6 levels in something else.
Roleplaying since Runequest.
Pretty much every spellcaster is going to look lackluster next to the wizard. Bard, warlock, sorcerer... I'd say only the cleric really stands in comparison. The wiz is probably one of the best designed class in the game. Sorcerer suffers from that more than most. Stories about the sorcerer being the cool one and the wizard an awkward geek aren't going to help the class - any story you make up for one, you can also do for the other - backgrounds for any class are unrestricted.
There's a lot we can do to spruce up the sorcerer. More sorcery points, more spells known, more spell list variety, more metamagic options. Actually, most of the things to improve sorcerer just tend to involve the word "more." Few can agree on what that "more" is however, I note. Which is kind of to be expected, I guess - everyone's got a different playstyle, so they all want different things depending on their playstyle. Personally, I would have liked to see the Dragon Soul be more dragon-like.
Side note - I will never understand why people think there's "nothing" at high levels on the sorcerer (or any caster really) - is access to Twinned Dominate Monster and Heightened Wish such a terrible option? I get people complaining about level 20 features, that's something people do for pretty much for two thirds of the classes. Don't want more metamagic? Fair enough for some people. One or two subclasses having a bad level? Okay, now that's a bit unfair, considering all subclass levels are hit or miss - there are some very good level 18 subclass options, but we can assume one of those bad options for the sake of argument. That said? How is access to some of the best spells in the game so easily dismissed?
I wish my Sorcerer could get a familiar without using a feat, or multi-class. But I like the limited spells if your working on a good concept your gonna have fun. My Sorcerer is not gonna be a Blaster he is gonna be Support and Manipulater. Which means his 1st metas will be Twinned and Subtle, he will still have some combat spells but that is why I went Shadow Magic instead of Dragon. I can still go with the Elemental Adept for the blasting but probably won't.
The god damn lack of resistance in draconic sorcerer. You have the scales why do you have to spend a sorcery point just to activate it?
Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
Right? There are already races with built-in resistance, so why can't it just be permanent? To top it off, it's triggered by casting a spell that uses your elemental damage type. If you want resistance to that damage type, odds are good that you're fighting something that also resists or is immune to that damage type.
Probably because an incentive to go dragonborn dragon sorcerer? That would be my guess anyways. The writers felt compelled to put in resistance, but because it would be redundant with dragonborn, it kinda became like this.
All of this.
I get 5e is supposed to be played a bit more loosely but Wild Sorcerer having its core feature's activation condition be 'whenever the DM remembers it exists' with no other guidance or caveat is pretty terrible.
The bit about Dragon being nudged overly toward Fire is something I think you can apply pretty broadly too. Part of the Sorcerer's concept is that it has a more limited spell selection, but in practice it ends up being too hard I think to build a themed sorcerer and from my experience as you go up the levels sorcerers start to look increasingly similar to each other.
This probably isn't huge, but at 6th level as sorcerer, using all 6 sorcery points, you can create a 4th level spell slot. Again, probably not huge, but 9d6 Fireball, or 5 ray Scorching Ray, etc. I'd just change that.
Subclass Evaluations So Far:
Sorcerer
Warlock
My statblock. Fear me!
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Are you saying this is too powerful? I mean foregoing all of your other metamagic for 1 4th level spell per day isn't much for a class that is currently the least powerful spellcasting class. They're underpowered as is, lets not nerf them even more.
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Are they the least powerful? Compared to the warlock at least? I mean, sure, the wizard is far and away stronger than the other two, and its hard to compare support-based casters, but I was never sure if they should be considered worse than the warlock. I always wondered about that...
I'm not saying this is too powerful. I'm just saying that it is the only class that is able to cast a spell fourth level while at level 6. I guess it's not really even a problem, just wanted to bring it up.
Subclass Evaluations So Far:
Sorcerer
Warlock
My statblock. Fear me!
Hosted a battle between the Cult of Sedge and the Forum Counters here(Done now). I_Love_Tarrasques has won the fight, scoring a victory for the fiendish Moderators.
The sorcerer is a starker choice in 5e, and I think that's a good thing. It's a minimalist class--similar to a champion fighter or thief rogue--that allows players the chance to focus on game play rather than a complex menu of class features. Some of us prefer this character style. For other players and other play styles, you've got 8 different flavors of wizard, the warlock, the bard, eldritch knights, and trickster rogues to choose from for arcane casters.
Sorcerers feel distinct from wizards during actual game in my experience, despite the superficial similarities between classes. They are hard to play well because they require creativity with the use of their spells and experience with what spells stay useful over time.
I'd kind of like to see more metamagic options. I think for most situations, twin and quicken are obvious picks. Subtle I could see being useful in a heavy RP campaign. the rest of the options are kind of "meh" or very niche. They just don't call to me and make twin or quicken hard choices.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
As Sorcerer power comes from their blood I would
1) Remove their needs for spell components/focuses completely like the 3.5 feat Eschew Material
2) Give them light armor profiency as well as profiency with martial weapons (since they don’t spend all their time studying)
3) increase their total amount of spells known to 21 at 20th level, spreading those extra 6 spells known in the early levels where Sorcerer feels the most restricted
4) Replenish Sorcer points on a short rest. The number of points recovered could be half their level or something suitable restricted
Quickly - a sorcerer cant create a 4th level spell at 6th, They dont have spell pool maximum high enough to do it (but nice try! :)
Why on earth would you expect a character who inherited its power to get great abilities late on? It gets them when it starts - wizards get no non class abilities except ritual prep and arc recovery till 17, I wont complain about having to wait to long for it but i can grumble that at T1 and T2 and T3 I really covet the sorcery points and metamagic combo - and damn but its a game changer. A sorcerer has few spell options, I agree. But metamagic used well? You can make a spell do things it was never expected to do. Or more simply burn spell slots that less than optimal to gain others / more meta magic - and if you make a poor decision there? You can just move that power back around - thats clearly amazing.
Sorcerers are not weak, The current subclasses and metamagic mean no two sorcerers ever need be the same.
WIzards and warlocks are again not weak, although mages may have to work out to keep up.
The nature of the sorcerer class asks you to make decisions for spells and for the most part keep them locked in - I would change this about the sorcerer description, preface it (and bard) under spell casting with an explanation that spell choices should be made wisely.
Another choice would be for elemental type sorcerers to make a choice do they want versatility or do they want every elemental spell to deal their element of damage permanently and irrevocably even if they dip into other classes to try and circumvent it. Unfortunately this could easily make some spells more easily effective than intended so I can see good reason to not introduce this.
Metamagic - a few people want more options but usually at the same time others mention only one or two 'prime' picks. Adding a new choice wont change that, it will at best alter the prime choice, and many of the metamagics are not considered at all which is a shame. Metamagic like spells choice can be utterly ineffective if the circumstances they apply to do not come up often. If you have a good scout and you know about foes at a distance though? engaging with extend spell is fantastic - with spell sniper as well you will probably have your opponents whittled down or hurt significantly before they can possibly return the favour. Think about your metamagics - how will you use them, how often will you use them and from there make your choice. Actually thats good advice when making any choices in general.
Have fun and choose something that is going to be fun for you and your party.
A 6th Level Sorcerer has 6 Sorcery Points. It costs 6 Sorcery Points to create a 4th Level Spell Slot. It does not limit the sorcerer to only making slots they normally have access to. So they can indeed create a 4th level spell slot. They are then free to cast any spell they know using that 4th level spell slot and the spell becomes 4th level if it can be upcasted (such as a Fireball).
My Homebrew: Races | Subclasses | Backgrounds | Spells | Magic Items | Feats
Need help with Homebrew? Check out this FAQ/Guide thread by IamSposta
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In addition, at 7th and 8th level, they can make 5th level slots.
Subclass Evaluations So Far:
Sorcerer
Warlock
My statblock. Fear me!
Hosted a battle between the Cult of Sedge and the Forum Counters here(Done now). I_Love_Tarrasques has won the fight, scoring a victory for the fiendish Moderators.
Hah! I stand corrected, my apologies.