So I’m starting a campaign as a Clockwork Soul sorcerer. We’re starting at level three and I’m thinking about taking quickened and extended spell as my metamagics because I’m really going to lean into the idea of time with my character. But I’m not sure if extended spell will really be useful. This is my first sorcerer, so I don’t know what to expect. Anyone have any thoughts?
Unfortunately, you will probably not find many uses for extended spell. The issue is due to how spell durations are setup. Spell durations are set at 1 min, 10 min, 1 hour, and 8 hours. Most combats are over in under a minute, so doubling the 1 minute duration to 2 minutes is virtually useless as you're pretty unlikely to get into another combat in under a minute.
If a spell lasts 10 minutes, that more likely to last for a couple of combats. Doubling it to 20 minutes, may give you one more combat to use this spell. Doubling a 1 hour spell to 2 hours is also not going to give you much more benefit and an 8 hour spell covers most of the adventuring day and so doubling the duration to 16 hours is pretty useless as well.
There are circumstantial cases where maybe an extra 10 minutes of the Fly spell may allow you to reach a destination faster or something, but these cases will most likely be few and far between that it doesn't make sense to use one of your few Metamagic choices. You'd be better off selecting a Metamagic choice which will get more use for you (Twinned Spell maybe if you'd like to fill a buffing/support role). However, if after level 3 you're finding that there were enough circumstances where your spells are running out of duration then you can swap Metamagic options at Sorcerer levels where you get an ASI/Feat (lvl 4, 8, 12, 16, 19). Also, you could take the Metamagic Adept feat (which I enthusiastically recommend!) for a couple of extra sorcery points and two more Metamagic options.
If extended spell changed the duration bracket (1 min to 10 min, 10 min to 1 hour, 1 hour to 8 hrs, 8 hrs to 24 hrs) then I'd say it would be more worth the Metamagic choice. Maybe talk to your DM if you'd really like to select this Metamagic for thematic reasons (which is really cool btw!)
When you cast a spell that has a duration of 1 minute or longer, you can spend 1 sorcery point to double its duration, to a maximum duration of 24 hours.
Eg. Take Mage Armor or Aid Increase the Duration for 16 hours.
Increase Spells duration that has 1 min or longer to 2 such as.
Guidance, Bane, Bless, Haste, Fly and such spells that require concentration.
Good for Illusion or Enchantment spells such as Charm Person, Hold Person, Hold Monster, Crown of Madness and such spells.
Polymorph for 2 mins great.
Overall its better to use outside of combat for social stuff.
Combat its decent cause it saves at least one spell slot over the duration of the day or if you want to concentrate on AOE or charming spells to CC monsters.
It maybe your worst meta magic option to choose from if you have no concentration spells or if you don't know how to use it.
Extend spell pairs very nicely with all of the summoning spells from Tasha's. Turning it into a 2 hour summon makes casting outside of combat a breeze and means it's even quite likely you get two combats out of it if it survives the first fight.
Personally I'm quite happy with Extended Spell, but it definitely requires you to think about what you're going to use it with.
One good way to think of it is not as extending duration, but saving spell slots. To really get an idea of what the savings are like, compare to what it would cost you to get the spell slot back via Font of Magic.
For example, if you extend Mage Armor to 16 hours, then you should only need to cast it once in a typical adventuring day. If you had instead cast it a second time, then the equivalent in Sorcery Points would be two for Font of Magic (for a 1st level slot), versus one for Extended Spell. This saving gets bigger the higher level the slot is up to 5th, and for spells of 6th and above it's the only way to get more out of some spells.
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The question comes though whether extended spell does save spell slots. I think it unlikely that a 2 minute duration would enable a spell to be active for 2 combats very often (if more enemies are that close they would be likely to be attracted to the first combat, also characters may want to check bodies for loot, look out for traps etc).
I think the biggest use is for 8hour duration. Extended Mage armor can be cast using a spare slot before going to bed. You save an action if you are attacked in the night and it will last for 8 hours after the long rest is complete which might get youthrough the next adventuring day. I do think it is the weakest metamagic option however.
One of the best examples of Extend Spell saving on spell slots is Aura of Vitality. Going from 1 minute to 2 minutes means doubling up from 20d6 healing to 40d6. AoV is the king of out of combat healing once you get to 3rd level spells, and extend means 1 3rd level slot can heal a team that has been badly battered.
Without going into casting spells the day before cheese, I think this is the single best use of extend spell.
How are you taking Aura of Vitality on a Sorcerer though, or are you thinking specifically of Metamagic Adept on a Cleric? Even Divine Soul sorcerers don't get Aura of Vitality normally; Clerics need to take the optional class feature to add it.
Even on the vanilla Sorcerer spell list there are a fair few (30+?) spells of 10 minutes or longer duration, so plenty of scope for Extended Spell to be used with a build to get a lot of mileage out of your spell slots; but you probably need to have something specific in mind, such as a control build or someone who will be using Polymorph a lot.
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The question comes though whether extended spell does save spell slots. I think it unlikely that a 2 minute duration would enable a spell to be active for 2 combats very often
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
These are the only spells even remotely likely to benefit from Extended Spell during combat (and really they’re mostly not gonna all too often except a few like color spray):
How are you taking Aura of Vitality on a Sorcerer though, or are you thinking specifically of Metamagic Adept on a Cleric? Even Divine Soul sorcerers don't get Aura of Vitality normally; Clerics need to take the optional class feature to add it.
Even on the vanilla Sorcerer spell list there are a fair few (30+?) spells of 10 minutes or longer duration, so plenty of scope for Extended Spell to be used with a build to get a lot of mileage out of your spell slots; but you probably need to have something specific in mind, such as a control build or someone who will be using Polymorph a lot.
It's an expansion of the cleric spell list, so yes, if Tasha's is available to you then DSS can take AoV. It's incredibly strong on a DSS. And by the time you're reaching late tier 2, one AoV often isn't enough if the DM is putting you through the paces and you're under some kind of pressure to not SR. Being able to spend one sorc point instead of a whole extra 3rd level slot is huge. So I think Metamagic Adept is quite strong for a cleric to take at 8 or 12.
@Sposta: Extended Mind Whip is super spicy. I could see utterly wrecking a combat with an upcast extended mind whip on round 1
It can be useful, also, for the Mind Sliver cantrip so the -1d4 penalty lasts 2 rounds instead of 1, making it easier to cast more spells that can benefit from that, like Hold Person.
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It can be useful, also, for the Mind Sliver cantrip so the -1d4 penalty lasts 2 rounds instead of 1, making it easier to cast more spells that can benefit from that, like Hold Person.
Unfortunately it only works on spells with a duration of 1 minute or longer, not 1 round
Extended Spell
When you cast a spell that has a duration of 1 minute or longer, you can spend 1 sorcery point to double its duration, to a maximum duration of 24 hours.
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
It's an expansion of the cleric spell list, so yes, if Tasha's is available to you then DSS can take AoV.
I'm not sure that follows unfortunately; the expanded spell list in Tasha's cauldron is an optional class feature, so only the class that the feature belongs to can take it and therefore access those spells.
Unless there's some errata I've missed (in which case I'll be very happy) I think Divine Soul is sadly limited to only the vanilla Cleric spell list, plus any direct modifications to the spell list (such as in Xanathar's Guide to Everything and some other books).
It's an excellent candidate for extending though, and definitely a good option for Metamagic Adept or multiclassing; there are a huge amount more spells Extended Spell will benefit if you add these into the mix.
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It can be useful, also, for the Mind Sliver cantrip so the -1d4 penalty lasts 2 rounds instead of 1, making it easier to cast more spells that can benefit from that, like Hold Person.
Unfortunately it only works on spells with a duration of 1 minute or longer, not 1 round
Extended Spell
When you cast a spell that has a duration of 1 minute or longer, you can spend 1 sorcery point to double its duration, to a maximum duration of 24 hours.
Ahh… so it does. Thank you for pointing that out, I had missed it on my re-read through.
Good thing I definitely haven't been using it to extend single round spells this entire time… 😅
To be fair though, my Sorcerer's party is a bunch of kill-stealing murder factories, so for me it almost never pays off, which is why I recommended 10 minutes+ shenanigans in the first place, as these are the ones I usually get the most value out of extending.
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Extended Delayed Blast Fireball - up to 32d6 damage.
Extended Dominate Monster cast at 9th Level (or Dominate Person at 8th level) - 16 hour control of a Monster (Humanoid).
Extended Etherealness cast at 9th Level - you and 6 others have the equivalent of 8 hours of travel on the Prime plane (half speed on Ethereal). An easy way to circumvent a whole day’s worth of encounters.
Extended Creation - A non-concentration, 24-hour Wall of Stone to block a doorway, or upcast higher for larger walls.
Extended Delayed Blast Fireball - up to 32d6 damage.
Extended Dominate Monster cast at 9th Level (or Dominate Person at 8th level) - 16 hour control of a Monster (Humanoid).
Extended Etherealness cast at 9th Level - you and 6 others have the equivalent of 8 hours of travel on the Prime plane (half speed on Ethereal). An easy way to circumvent a whole day’s worth of encounters.
Extended Creation - A non-concentration, 24-hour Wall of Stone to block a doorway, or upcast higher for larger walls.
All those are valid uses but I would say they are all very niche.
How often will you want ot dominate a monster for more than 8 hours but less than 16? Yes there will be occasions even for something like dominating the the BBEG while you take him to prison you would normally be able to telport there much quicker.
Similarly how often will 24 hours of wall of stone be significantly better than 12 hours?
Extended etherealness circumvents a days travel worth of encounters on the material plain but potentially results in a day's worth of encounters on the ethereal plane
Delayed blast fireball probably has the best potential but you need to know exaactly two minutes before you want it to go off. Great for blowing up buildings. Can also be used if you are pretending ot be friendly or at least parley with your enemy, dimension door away and set it off, however you would need to have a way of ensuring the enemy is not aware the spell has been cast (you can't subtle cast and extend).
Extended Delayed Blast Fireball - up to 32d6 damage.
Extended Dominate Monster cast at 9th Level (or Dominate Person at 8th level) - 16 hour control of a Monster (Humanoid).
Extended Etherealness cast at 9th Level - you and 6 others have the equivalent of 8 hours of travel on the Prime plane (half speed on Ethereal). An easy way to circumvent a whole day’s worth of encounters.
Extended Creation - A non-concentration, 24-hour Wall of Stone to block a doorway, or upcast higher for larger walls.
All those are valid uses but I would say they are all very niche.
How often will you want ot dominate a monster for more than 8 hours but less than 16? Yes there will be occasions even for something like dominating the the BBEG while you take him to prison you would normally be able to telport there much quicker.
Similarly how often will 24 hours of wall of stone be significantly better than 12 hours?
Extended etherealness circumvents a days travel worth of encounters on the material plain but potentially results in a day's worth of encounters on the ethereal plane
Delayed blast fireball probably has the best potential but you need to know exaactly two minutes before you want it to go off. Great for blowing up buildings. Can also be used if you are pretending ot be friendly or at least parley with your enemy, dimension door away and set it off, however you would need to have a way of ensuring the enemy is not aware the spell has been cast (you can't subtle cast and extend).
Yeah, I was trying to supply things that hadn’t already been quoted.
A couple of points:
1) Creation is no concentration, unlike Wall of Stone, and has other uses too, so it’s not as niche either as Wall of Stone.
2) Ethereal encounters are bound to be more exciting than non-Ethereal ones haha. And, you can go through solid walls or up and down.
3) Dominate for 16 means you can take a long rest after casting and nd still have 8 hours of usage left.
So I’m starting a campaign as a Clockwork Soul sorcerer. We’re starting at level three and I’m thinking about taking quickened and extended spell as my metamagics because I’m really going to lean into the idea of time with my character. But I’m not sure if extended spell will really be useful. This is my first sorcerer, so I don’t know what to expect. Anyone have any thoughts?
What am I supposed to do with a signature?
Egg
Unfortunately, you will probably not find many uses for extended spell. The issue is due to how spell durations are setup. Spell durations are set at 1 min, 10 min, 1 hour, and 8 hours. Most combats are over in under a minute, so doubling the 1 minute duration to 2 minutes is virtually useless as you're pretty unlikely to get into another combat in under a minute.
If a spell lasts 10 minutes, that more likely to last for a couple of combats. Doubling it to 20 minutes, may give you one more combat to use this spell. Doubling a 1 hour spell to 2 hours is also not going to give you much more benefit and an 8 hour spell covers most of the adventuring day and so doubling the duration to 16 hours is pretty useless as well.
There are circumstantial cases where maybe an extra 10 minutes of the Fly spell may allow you to reach a destination faster or something, but these cases will most likely be few and far between that it doesn't make sense to use one of your few Metamagic choices. You'd be better off selecting a Metamagic choice which will get more use for you (Twinned Spell maybe if you'd like to fill a buffing/support role). However, if after level 3 you're finding that there were enough circumstances where your spells are running out of duration then you can swap Metamagic options at Sorcerer levels where you get an ASI/Feat (lvl 4, 8, 12, 16, 19). Also, you could take the Metamagic Adept feat (which I enthusiastically recommend!) for a couple of extra sorcery points and two more Metamagic options.
If extended spell changed the duration bracket (1 min to 10 min, 10 min to 1 hour, 1 hour to 8 hrs, 8 hrs to 24 hrs) then I'd say it would be more worth the Metamagic choice. Maybe talk to your DM if you'd really like to select this Metamagic for thematic reasons (which is really cool btw!)
My two cp...hope this helps!
Extended Spell
When you cast a spell that has a duration of 1 minute or longer, you can spend 1 sorcery point to double its duration, to a maximum duration of 24 hours.
Eg. Take Mage Armor or Aid Increase the Duration for 16 hours.
Increase Spells duration that has 1 min or longer to 2 such as.
Guidance, Bane, Bless, Haste, Fly and such spells that require concentration.
Good for Illusion or Enchantment spells such as Charm Person, Hold Person, Hold Monster, Crown of Madness and such spells.
Polymorph for 2 mins great.
Overall its better to use outside of combat for social stuff.
Combat its decent cause it saves at least one spell slot over the duration of the day or if you want to concentrate on AOE or charming spells to CC monsters.
It maybe your worst meta magic option to choose from if you have no concentration spells or if you don't know how to use it.
Extended spell aid and take a long rest to recover spell slots
Extend spell pairs very nicely with all of the summoning spells from Tasha's. Turning it into a 2 hour summon makes casting outside of combat a breeze and means it's even quite likely you get two combats out of it if it survives the first fight.
Personally I'm quite happy with Extended Spell, but it definitely requires you to think about what you're going to use it with.
One good way to think of it is not as extending duration, but saving spell slots. To really get an idea of what the savings are like, compare to what it would cost you to get the spell slot back via Font of Magic.
For example, if you extend Mage Armor to 16 hours, then you should only need to cast it once in a typical adventuring day. If you had instead cast it a second time, then the equivalent in Sorcery Points would be two for Font of Magic (for a 1st level slot), versus one for Extended Spell. This saving gets bigger the higher level the slot is up to 5th, and for spells of 6th and above it's the only way to get more out of some spells.
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The question comes though whether extended spell does save spell slots. I think it unlikely that a 2 minute duration would enable a spell to be active for 2 combats very often (if more enemies are that close they would be likely to be attracted to the first combat, also characters may want to check bodies for loot, look out for traps etc).
I think the biggest use is for 8hour duration. Extended Mage armor can be cast using a spare slot before going to bed. You save an action if you are attacked in the night and it will last for 8 hours after the long rest is complete which might get youthrough the next adventuring day. I do think it is the weakest metamagic option however.
One of the best examples of Extend Spell saving on spell slots is Aura of Vitality. Going from 1 minute to 2 minutes means doubling up from 20d6 healing to 40d6. AoV is the king of out of combat healing once you get to 3rd level spells, and extend means 1 3rd level slot can heal a team that has been badly battered.
Without going into casting spells the day before cheese, I think this is the single best use of extend spell.
How are you taking Aura of Vitality on a Sorcerer though, or are you thinking specifically of Metamagic Adept on a Cleric? Even Divine Soul sorcerers don't get Aura of Vitality normally; Clerics need to take the optional class feature to add it.
Even on the vanilla Sorcerer spell list there are a fair few (30+?) spells of 10 minutes or longer duration, so plenty of scope for Extended Spell to be used with a build to get a lot of mileage out of your spell slots; but you probably need to have something specific in mind, such as a control build or someone who will be using Polymorph a lot.
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Extended's best uses are not directly in combat
Just looking at 2nd/3rd-level spells, a 16-hour suggestion instead of 8 hours could be huge, as could an extra hour on invisibility, enhance ability, intellect fortress or tongues
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
These are the only spells even remotely likely to benefit from Extended Spell during combat (and really they’re mostly not gonna all too often except a few like color spray):
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It's an expansion of the cleric spell list, so yes, if Tasha's is available to you then DSS can take AoV. It's incredibly strong on a DSS. And by the time you're reaching late tier 2, one AoV often isn't enough if the DM is putting you through the paces and you're under some kind of pressure to not SR. Being able to spend one sorc point instead of a whole extra 3rd level slot is huge. So I think Metamagic Adept is quite strong for a cleric to take at 8 or 12.
@Sposta: Extended Mind Whip is super spicy. I could see utterly wrecking a combat with an upcast extended mind whip on round 1
It can be useful, also, for the Mind Sliver cantrip so the -1d4 penalty lasts 2 rounds instead of 1, making it easier to cast more spells that can benefit from that, like Hold Person.
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Unfortunately it only works on spells with a duration of 1 minute or longer, not 1 round
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I'm not sure that follows unfortunately; the expanded spell list in Tasha's cauldron is an optional class feature, so only the class that the feature belongs to can take it and therefore access those spells.
Unless there's some errata I've missed (in which case I'll be very happy) I think Divine Soul is sadly limited to only the vanilla Cleric spell list, plus any direct modifications to the spell list (such as in Xanathar's Guide to Everything and some other books).
It's an excellent candidate for extending though, and definitely a good option for Metamagic Adept or multiclassing; there are a huge amount more spells Extended Spell will benefit if you add these into the mix.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Ahh… so it does. Thank you for pointing that out, I had missed it on my re-read through.
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Good thing I definitely haven't been using it to extend single round spells this entire time… 😅
To be fair though, my Sorcerer's party is a bunch of kill-stealing murder factories, so for me it almost never pays off, which is why I recommended 10 minutes+ shenanigans in the first place, as these are the ones I usually get the most value out of extending.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Extended Delayed Blast Fireball - up to 32d6 damage.
Extended Dominate Monster cast at 9th Level (or Dominate Person at 8th level) - 16 hour control of a Monster (Humanoid).
Extended Etherealness cast at 9th Level - you and 6 others have the equivalent of 8 hours of travel on the Prime plane (half speed on Ethereal). An easy way to circumvent a whole day’s worth of encounters.
Extended Creation - A non-concentration, 24-hour Wall of Stone to block a doorway, or upcast higher for larger walls.
All those are valid uses but I would say they are all very niche.
How often will you want ot dominate a monster for more than 8 hours but less than 16? Yes there will be occasions even for something like dominating the the BBEG while you take him to prison you would normally be able to telport there much quicker.
Similarly how often will 24 hours of wall of stone be significantly better than 12 hours?
Extended etherealness circumvents a days travel worth of encounters on the material plain but potentially results in a day's worth of encounters on the ethereal plane
Delayed blast fireball probably has the best potential but you need to know exaactly two minutes before you want it to go off. Great for blowing up buildings. Can also be used if you are pretending ot be friendly or at least parley with your enemy, dimension door away and set it off, however you would need to have a way of ensuring the enemy is not aware the spell has been cast (you can't subtle cast and extend).
Yeah, I was trying to supply things that hadn’t already been quoted.
A couple of points:
1) Creation is no concentration, unlike Wall of Stone, and has other uses too, so it’s not as niche either as Wall of Stone.
2) Ethereal encounters are bound to be more exciting than non-Ethereal ones haha. And, you can go through solid walls or up and down.
3) Dominate for 16 means you can take a long rest after casting and nd still have 8 hours of usage left.