Swapping out one spell per day doesn't come anywhere close to stealing the wizard's thunder. The classes that get to do that don't even get know as many spells as a wizard gets to prepare daily. Have you seen the number of starting spells a Sorcerer gets?
IF you want to play a wizard there in lies the reason to play one. I have a wizard in a game the DM wouldn't let us pick warlock or Sorcerer. sometimes roleplaying isn't all about how bad ass I can be verses other players, its about playing a character you want to play. IDk that's my opinion I guess.
I can understand the frustration too. When I was looking at the wizard I was like meh. I did some web searching and found a few good guides. And also the UA stuff isn't official so your DM doesn't have to allow it.
If you get to compare classes for your complaints I get to contrast them.
The wizard doesn't have access to meta magic or any summarily powerful feature/subclass feature.
This is blatantly false. Not only do wizard subclasses grant powerful features, the wizard has more of them to choose from than any other class in the game.
They simply get spells, so encroaching on the wizards unique spells and variety of spells, is stealing their thunder.
Nope. Because the wizard still has a much, much, much bigger spell list to choose from, has access to more spells at any given time, and gets to replace more of them at a time. Spell Versatility doesn't come close.
im just saying that letting sorcerers and bards get access to all their 6th 7th 8th 9th level spell list for free, is a punch in the dick to any wizard who would have too bankrupt a kingdom to do the same.
Not really. A 20th level wizard can get 8 out of their 15 9th level spells for free. Sorcerers only have seven in total; wizards get all of them. Bards only get six; wizards also get all of them except Power Word Heal, and bards can't Wish. But hey, at least the bard gets 22 spells known. The Sorcerer's stuck at 15 with much less access to utility spells, swapping them out one at a time while the wizard gets to pick 25 each day.
This is an apples to oranges comparison. It's like crying foul that clerics get access to their full spell and wizards don't despite the fact that the cleric spell list is both smaller and has a much different focus.
wizards being a late game focused class, isn't a thing anymore.
There's no such thing as a "late game-focused class."
They simply get spells, so encroaching on the wizards unique spells and variety of spells, is stealing their thunder.
Tell that to the Ranger as it gets squeezed to death between a druid and a fighter. I can tell you're upset and I can sort of see why, but I think you are making this much bigger than it is. Changing one spell is barely touching the wizards ability to prepare. There is overlap and versatility between classes. Sometimes it misses the mark and sometimes it works. If you don't like it....don't use it. Ask the DM not to allow it or if you're the DM stricken it from the game like a cursed object that is never to be seen or spoken of again! Problem solved.
The wizard still has the largest spell list in the game. And the highest variety in spells (they have pretty much every kind of spell besides healing and smites). Yes, the sorcerer can change out one spell when they finish a long rest, to another spell of the same level. The wizard can change their entire amount of spells on a dime when they take a rest. And they have more spells known BY FAR than any spells known caster, and only the cleric is able to rival them in terms of spells prepared (and the cleric has much less variety in spells). They have the ability to regain a small amount of spell slots on a short rest, making them able to be a bit more spammy. All this spell variety thing does for the sorcerer is make it so that if they pick a bad spell they can go back on it without leveling up. Yes, there may be a situation where the sorcerer changes out one of their first level spells (sacrificing low level magic for another kind) to get disguise self or charm person for a social scenario. The wizard, on the other hand, changes their entire spells prepared (which should be, at lowest, above the sorcerers spells known) to adapt to the same scanario. And they can get more of these spells if they can find a spellbook. Personally, I am more worried about what you suggested with the scrolls being a way for the wizard to be even better. Also, yes, the wizard already had divination magic. But just because they are "thematically divination" does not mean shit. You do not have an equivalent spell for augury as a divination wizard, or even the spell divination. They are spells that the wizard SHOULD HAVE HAD. Scrying, arcane eye, and clairvoyance are completely different spells to augury and divination.
And there is not, and should never be, a "late game power class" in 5e. The idea of wizards being weak and then strong is not what game designers should be following, and demanding that wizards follow it is actively harmful to the balance of the game.
the fact there are 3 different Arcane spell casters, necessitates a difference in scaling.
That's really not how the game designers approach the game.
Warlock dominate low level play (which is evident by the sheer number of warlock multiclasses, taking thier powerful early features)
If anything warlocks get better as they level, because Eldritch Blast gets more attacks and Agonizing Blast lets them add their CHA to each one, which makes them much better at cantrip damage than any other spellcaster. Warlock multiclassing has more to do with getting enhancing the other class with Hex Warrior or Pact Magic slots.
Sorcerer with Sorcery points can cast 3 5th level spells at level 9, if that isnt a midgame spike in power i don't know what is.
Wizards get Arcane Recovery anyways and converting sorcery points to slots is the least efficient way to use them.
Ah yes, because the wizard totally doesn't have a. Cantrips, which are fine at early levels
b. More spells known than any other known caster, guaranteeing more spells known than a level 20 sorcerer at 6th level, and that is if you are unable to find any spell scrolls or spellbooks along the way
c. A much more varied spell list than prepared casters, having a spell for almost every situation in their spell list
d. The unique ability to cast rituals even if they have not prepared the spell, allowing them to constantly be casting Detect Magic, Identify, Comprehend Languages, Find Familiar, Magic Mouth, and all without expending a spell slot or even requiring preparation.
e. Subclasses that do things like:
Give you the Careful Spell metamagic, that is always on and for free
Allow you to heal yourself when you kill a creature with a spell
Allow you to FORCE a creature to fail a saving throw, or force a roll to succeed on it.
All at level 2.
f. The ability to, at any point, change your entire spell preparation at the end of a long rest, with the largest difference between spells from this, allowing you to go from a master blaster to a charming trickster in under a day
g. The ability to gain more spells known if you find a scroll (which is a check, to be fair, but is a free spell there), or a spellbook (which is NOT a check, it just costs money and time to do so), and the wizard knows these spells permanently.
h. The ability to regain a limited amount of spell slots on a short rest, equal to a total level of half the wizard level rounded up.
Callak-Remier is not ignoring a wizard's ability to change the entire spell list into a long rest. He is referring to spell versatility which gives you access to all spells at any level, even at high levels. This is something strong, even if it's just one spell for every long rest. At higher levels, the wizard can only choose between a finite number of spells, if it wasn't lucky enough or the money to include more. If the objective of this change was to be able to give rise to changing erroneously selected spells in certain classes, they could have opted for a change in each level rise and one spell per level, for example. Or they could have included the wizard and other similar classes since wrong choices can affect everyone.
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"Esta perfecta melodía que acompasa y guía mi movimiento es la voz de mi compañera Aegnor"
Gowther Irerath, El'Tael de los Fragmentos Extraordinarios.
Swapping out one spell per day doesn't come anywhere close to stealing the wizard's thunder. The classes that get to do that don't even get know as many spells as a wizard gets to prepare daily. Have you seen the number of starting spells a Sorcerer gets?
IF you want to play a wizard there in lies the reason to play one. I have a wizard in a game the DM wouldn't let us pick warlock or Sorcerer. sometimes roleplaying isn't all about how bad ass I can be verses other players, its about playing a character you want to play. IDk that's my opinion I guess.
I can understand the frustration too. When I was looking at the wizard I was like meh. I did some web searching and found a few good guides. And also the UA stuff isn't official so your DM doesn't have to allow it.
If you get to compare classes for your complaints I get to contrast them.
This is blatantly false. Not only do wizard subclasses grant powerful features, the wizard has more of them to choose from than any other class in the game.
Nope. Because the wizard still has a much, much, much bigger spell list to choose from, has access to more spells at any given time, and gets to replace more of them at a time. Spell Versatility doesn't come close.
Not really. A 20th level wizard can get 8 out of their 15 9th level spells for free. Sorcerers only have seven in total; wizards get all of them. Bards only get six; wizards also get all of them except Power Word Heal, and bards can't Wish. But hey, at least the bard gets 22 spells known. The Sorcerer's stuck at 15 with much less access to utility spells, swapping them out one at a time while the wizard gets to pick 25 each day.
This is an apples to oranges comparison. It's like crying foul that clerics get access to their full spell and wizards don't despite the fact that the cleric spell list is both smaller and has a much different focus.
There's no such thing as a "late game-focused class."
Tell that to the Ranger as it gets squeezed to death between a druid and a fighter. I can tell you're upset and I can sort of see why, but I think you are making this much bigger than it is. Changing one spell is barely touching the wizards ability to prepare.
There is overlap and versatility between classes. Sometimes it misses the mark and sometimes it works. If you don't like it....don't use it. Ask the DM not to allow it or if you're the DM stricken it from the game like a cursed object that is never to be seen or spoken of again! Problem solved.
You raise a valid point.
The wizard's niche was at least partly if not primarily; flexibility
With this UA pass that niche has some ... encroaching neighbors...
That being said I historically avoided bard and sorcerer and to be honest I still think I would pick a wizard over bard.
Not gonna tell ya this UA is perfect but I think wizard is still a relatively appealing and flexible class.
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
You can't just name a kind of logical fallacy as a rebuttal
The wizard still has the largest spell list in the game. And the highest variety in spells (they have pretty much every kind of spell besides healing and smites). Yes, the sorcerer can change out one spell when they finish a long rest, to another spell of the same level. The wizard can change their entire amount of spells on a dime when they take a rest. And they have more spells known BY FAR than any spells known caster, and only the cleric is able to rival them in terms of spells prepared (and the cleric has much less variety in spells). They have the ability to regain a small amount of spell slots on a short rest, making them able to be a bit more spammy. All this spell variety thing does for the sorcerer is make it so that if they pick a bad spell they can go back on it without leveling up. Yes, there may be a situation where the sorcerer changes out one of their first level spells (sacrificing low level magic for another kind) to get disguise self or charm person for a social scenario. The wizard, on the other hand, changes their entire spells prepared (which should be, at lowest, above the sorcerers spells known) to adapt to the same scanario. And they can get more of these spells if they can find a spellbook. Personally, I am more worried about what you suggested with the scrolls being a way for the wizard to be even better. Also, yes, the wizard already had divination magic. But just because they are "thematically divination" does not mean shit. You do not have an equivalent spell for augury as a divination wizard, or even the spell divination. They are spells that the wizard SHOULD HAVE HAD. Scrying, arcane eye, and clairvoyance are completely different spells to augury and divination.
Wizards haven't lost shit, other classes have gained a way to avoid being stuck with terrible spells
And there is not, and should never be, a "late game power class" in 5e. The idea of wizards being weak and then strong is not what game designers should be following, and demanding that wizards follow it is actively harmful to the balance of the game.
That's really not how the game designers approach the game.
If anything warlocks get better as they level, because Eldritch Blast gets more attacks and Agonizing Blast lets them add their CHA to each one, which makes them much better at cantrip damage than any other spellcaster. Warlock multiclassing has more to do with getting enhancing the other class with Hex Warrior or Pact Magic slots.
Wizards get Arcane Recovery anyways and converting sorcery points to slots is the least efficient way to use them.
Classes should not be better than other classes at different levels.
Ah yes, because the wizard totally doesn't have
a. Cantrips, which are fine at early levels
b. More spells known than any other known caster, guaranteeing more spells known than a level 20 sorcerer at 6th level, and that is if you are unable to find any spell scrolls or spellbooks along the way
c. A much more varied spell list than prepared casters, having a spell for almost every situation in their spell list
d. The unique ability to cast rituals even if they have not prepared the spell, allowing them to constantly be casting Detect Magic, Identify, Comprehend Languages, Find Familiar, Magic Mouth, and all without expending a spell slot or even requiring preparation.
e. Subclasses that do things like:
Give you the Careful Spell metamagic, that is always on and for free
Allow you to heal yourself when you kill a creature with a spell
Allow you to FORCE a creature to fail a saving throw, or force a roll to succeed on it.
All at level 2.
f. The ability to, at any point, change your entire spell preparation at the end of a long rest, with the largest difference between spells from this, allowing you to go from a master blaster to a charming trickster in under a day
g. The ability to gain more spells known if you find a scroll (which is a check, to be fair, but is a free spell there), or a spellbook (which is NOT a check, it just costs money and time to do so), and the wizard knows these spells permanently.
h. The ability to regain a limited amount of spell slots on a short rest, equal to a total level of half the wizard level rounded up.
Callak-Remier is not ignoring a wizard's ability to change the entire spell list into a long rest. He is referring to spell versatility which gives you access to all spells at any level, even at high levels. This is something strong, even if it's just one spell for every long rest. At higher levels, the wizard can only choose between a finite number of spells, if it wasn't lucky enough or the money to include more. If the objective of this change was to be able to give rise to changing erroneously selected spells in certain classes, they could have opted for a change in each level rise and one spell per level, for example. Or they could have included the wizard and other similar classes since wrong choices can affect everyone.
"Esta perfecta melodía que acompasa y guía mi movimiento es la voz de mi compañera Aegnor"
Gowther Irerath, El'Tael de los Fragmentos Extraordinarios.
I would like to point out that a sorcerer with a month of down time does break the argument based on “one spell vs your entire list.”
It seems ok on the surface, until you don’t spend every day adventuring and all classes essentially become prepared caster classes.