When you compete with stolen IP, that is not competing. That's cheating.
If you go about it the right way, like Roll20 or DnDbeyond then you can compete against each other using the proper channels.
It's only stolen because Wizards decided it was stolen. They could've made everything part of their SRD if they wanted to. Or at the very least, much more. Look at the 3.5e SRD vs the 5e one and you can see the huge gulf between the two. In fact, look at the Pathfinder SRD. It has, I'm pretty sure, absolutely everything Paizo has ever published in it. And again, I fully acknowledge that Wizards is legally within their rights to do this, but it doesn't change the fact that as a consumer, I was happier using other sites and services. I imagine D&D Beyond would be a lot better if it did actually have to compete, even if it's competition with other people making character creators in their spare time and surviving on Paypal donations.
But Wizards is a business and that means they want as much of my money that I'm willing to give them. I'm just explaining why I haven't bought into this platform that they've invested so much into.
FancyCreb, thank you for taking the time to post and articulate your thoughts.
I feel that it's worth the reminder here that D&D Beyond is not owned or run by Wizards of the Coast - it's owned and run by Curse, who license the product from Wizards of the Coast. Different companies.
There are several licensed ventures as alternatives to D&D Beyond, such as Roll20 and Fantasy Grounds - all of which have licensed the content from Wizards of the Coast. Any other "competitors" you refer to were almost certainly illegally using that content if they have been taken down by legal means.
I'm not a spokesperson for Wizards, but given that they moved the SRD from the 3.5 model (d20 system) to the more restrictive OGL for 5e, it can be inferred that this was on purpose and likely because the 3.5 model caused them financial issues.
But Wizards is a business and that means they want as much of my money that I'm willing to give them. I'm just explaining why I haven't bought into this platform that they've invested so much into.
FancyCreb, thank you for taking the time to post and articulate your thoughts.
I feel that it's worth the reminder here that D&D Beyond is not owned or run by Wizards of the Coast - it's owned and run by Curse, who license the product from Wizards of the Coast. Different companies.
There are several licensed ventures as alternatives to D&D Beyond, such as Roll20 and Fantasy Grounds - all of which have licensed the content from Wizards of the Coast. Any other "competitors" you refer to were almost certainly illegally using that content if they have been taken down by legal means.
I'm not a spokesperson for Wizards, but given that they moved the SRD from the 3.5 model (d20 system) to the more restrictive OGL for 5e, it can be inferred that this was on purpose and likely because the 3.5 model caused them financial issues.
I appreciate the response.
I am aware that D&D Beyond is owned by Curse. But, unless I'm completely mistaken, Wizards is benefiting in some way by the success of the platform. Either by receiving a portion of revenue, or perhaps a lump sum for each piece of content implemented. Either way, they have a financial stake in the success of D&D Beyond and presumably they've invested some amount of time, money, and/or effort into maximizing that success.
As I've said before, I recognize that Wizards is in their rights to take down unlicensed services. Still, I believe this is anti-consumer. And I also feel I need to again ask my original question: What exactly am I paying for when I buy these services? Unlicensed services were taken down because they provided illegal access to information. I already have legal access to that information.
I understand that the 3.5 model could've posed financial issues, but, given the lack of information available to me as a consumer, there's a shadow of doubt. The 3.5 model could've been perfectly viable, just not the absolutely most profitable model. I honestly just don't know enough to say. Again I'll point to Pathfinder. It has more available in its SRD than 3.5, by a massive margin, and Paizo is still in business. I understand that there's a big difference between Paizo and Wizards (Including the fact that Wizards is beholden to Hasbro) but I cannot believe that 5e simply couldn't exist under the 3.5 model.
Still, I do appreciate the response. I'm not trying to be combative, but I feel I've strayed a bit from my original thought, which is 'hey, I don't think this is worth my money'.
Subscriptions do not get you any new content no. You have to purchase each of the books to do that. Or if you just want certain pieces, like a subclass or a race you can buy those for usually $1.99 each.
Still, I do appreciate the response. I'm not trying to be combative, but I feel I've strayed a bit from my original thought, which is 'hey, I don't think this is worth my money'.
Then it's pretty simple solution. Don't buy it. The laws of supply and demand will then work the way they are supposed to. If enough people don't think it is worth it, then they will adjust or go out of business. If enough people do think it is worth it then, they will continue to make better tools and continue to grow and make things better.
Expecting a company to put time, energy and money into a product and then give it away free is not a company that will be in business very long.
Still, I do appreciate the response. I'm not trying to be combative, but I feel I've strayed a bit from my original thought, which is 'hey, I don't think this is worth my money'.
Then it's pretty simple solution. Don't buy it. The laws of supply and demand will then work the way they are supposed to. If enough people don't think it is worth it, then they will adjust or go out of business. If enough people do think it is worth it then, they will continue to make better tools and continue to grow and make things better.
Expecting a company to put time, energy and money into a product and then give it away free is not a company that will be in business very long.
I'm already doing that. But it's more useful for Wizards/Curse to know why someone might not buy their product. I may be in the minority, sure, but I think it's silly to think that I'm the only person that could possibly feel this way.
Also, again, I have to bring up Pathfinder and how you can access all of the information to make a character, as well as fan-created tools, for free. Paizo still seems to be in business.
I'm already doing that. But it's more useful for Wizards/Curse to know why someone might not buy their product. I may be in the minority, sure, but I think it's silly to think that I'm the only person that could possibly feel this way.
Trust me, you are not. (I mean, we are in the minority, but we are not alone.)
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"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
Still, I do appreciate the response. I'm not trying to be combative, but I feel I've strayed a bit from my original thought, which is 'hey, I don't think this is worth my money'.
Then it's pretty simple solution. Don't buy it. The laws of supply and demand will then work the way they are supposed to. If enough people don't think it is worth it, then they will adjust or go out of business. If enough people do think it is worth it then, they will continue to make better tools and continue to grow and make things better.
Expecting a company to put time, energy and money into a product and then give it away free is not a company that will be in business very long.
I'm already doing that. But it's more useful for Wizards/Curse to know why someone might not buy their product. I may be in the minority, sure, but I think it's silly to think that I'm the only person that could possibly feel this way.
Also, again, I have to bring up Pathfinder and how you can access all of the information to make a character, as well as fan-created tools, for free. Paizo still seems to be in business.
As I understand it, either WotC or Hasbro decided, during the 4e time period, that D&D wasn't profitable enough to keep, so they issued an ultimatum, and the current business model is a result of that ultimatum. Personally, I think this D&D is a lot better than no D&D.
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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
I never said I never would 'work with' D&D Beyond, whatever that means. I'm explaining why D&D Beyond, as it currently stands, isn't a good purchase from my perspective. This thread is about feedback, right? Presumably it's not only about positive feedback.
I think you're absolutely within your rights to give that kind of feedback and I think purchasing content on D&D Beyond in its current iteration isn't for you. But if some of us on this forum come across a bit sensitive it's because we keep hearing the same comments about the business model. Not saying it's right or you shouldn't give feedback, you just might need to filter some of our comments in response because it's not you, it's everyone.
Here's an alternative viewpoint. I had the 3 core books and that was it, so the D&D Beyond legendary bundle was good value for me. The search function alone made it worth paying twice for the core books - now I only have my laptop, iPad for Game Master 5, and dice (because I still like to roll dice). Not a pile of books I have to search through to find stuff. Would physical books be better so there's no fear of losing access to licensed digital content? Given my second PHB is starting to fall apart, it's a risk I'm willing to take. In any case, once the app is out of beta, that won't even be much of a risk. I'm also trusting DDB to deliver on their promise of campaign management tools. It's not DDB's fault Wizards shut down another site to protect their IP - it's why I prefer the licensed option if one is available.
YMMV, but DDB is aimed at customers like me, not non-customers.
I never said I never would 'work with' D&D Beyond, whatever that means. I'm explaining why D&D Beyond, as it currently stands, isn't a good purchase from my perspective. This thread is about feedback, right? Presumably it's not only about positive feedback.
I think you're absolutely within your rights to give that kind of feedback and I think purchasing content on D&D Beyond in its current iteration isn't for you. But if some of us on this forum come across a bit sensitive it's because we keep hearing the same comments about the business model. Not saying it's right or you shouldn't give feedback, you just might need to filter some of our comments in response because it's not you, it's everyone.
Here's an alternative viewpoint. I had the 3 core books and that was it, so the D&D Beyond legendary bundle was good value for me. The search function alone made it worth paying twice for the core books - now I only have my laptop, iPad for Game Master 5, and dice (because I still like to roll dice). Not a pile of books I have to search through to find stuff. Would physical books be better so there's no fear of losing access to licensed digital content? Given my second PHB is starting to fall apart, it's a risk I'm willing to take. In any case, once the app is out of beta, that won't even be much of a risk. I'm also trusting DDB to deliver on their promise of campaign management tools. It's not DDB's fault Wizards shut down another site to protect their IP - it's why I prefer the licensed option if one is available.
YMMV, but DDB is aimed at customers like me, not non-customers.
This is an excellent point, and I do want to reinforce that, I'm not saying that D&D Beyond is an objectively bad purchase- just that it's a bad purchase for me. I don't want anyone to feel like I'm looking down on them for purchasing any of the content or buying a subscription. If you feel you got your money's worth, I cannot disagree with that.
I just saw a comment on a different thread from Stormknight saying to talk about grievances with the pricing here, so I hope this is the right place for this.
I'd like to share why I have no interest in purchasing D&D Beyond.
So, the basics. I own the books already. All of the ones I feel are worth owning. (Core three and Volo's, Sword Coast, Xanathar's.) I've seen people say similar things and that they don't want to pay for the same thing twice. I've seen other people say that you aren't paying for the same thing twice and that the books don't entitle you to the tool. Both kinds of people are missing the point. Me owning the books doesn't entitle me to the tool, it just significantly reduces the value that the tool could provide me.
$35 for an RPG source book is a pretty good deal. Even $50 at a game store is reasonable. A book is a physical object, meaning I don't have to futz around with anything else at the table. It's reasonably easy to navigate. It contains all of its information in a clearly laid out way. At no point have I felt that the physical book was too cumbersome to obtain information from. Books as physical products also have marginal costs to produce. As a consumer I understand that in addition to the information provided by the book, I'm paying for the physical materials of the book itself.
So, if a book is perfectly fine to read information, what I would use a tool for is to write information. Being able to easily make a character sheet is really convenient. Hence why I and all of my friends used the tools that other people had already made, before they were forced to strip their content down to the Basic Rules and SRD. Now, I understand Wizards is perfectly within their rights to restrict tools from using their content, but from my perspective, I already had everything I needed, but Wizards decided to get litigious in order to push their product. And I get it, that's just how a business operates. Maximize profit above all else. Still doesn't make me feel the need to buy the product.
At the end of the day, what exactly am I paying for with D&D Beyond? I already have access to the information. I already have access to the ability to make character sheets and any homebrew content I'd ever need to write down. (You can't cease and desist paper and pencils, or word processors.) The only thing that D&D Beyond could provide me is convenience, and convenience is not worth $150. Combined with the slap in the face that is stopping other people from providing similar services for free, I can't fathom buying in.
Now, some people will surely say, 'you don't have to buy the bundle, you can just buy the things you need'. Well, as a GM, I need at least the core three. But even as a player, right now in one of my games, I'm playing a level 5 Drow Hexblade Warlock/Oath of Conquest Paladin with the Noble background. So, assuming I owned no other D&D Beyond content, that's $6 right away, plus $2 for any non-SRD spells I have. Not exactly a great value from my perspective for just one character.
The only thing that would make me consider D&D Beyond is if a physical version of the book wasn't available. And even then, I'd rather have a PDF.
Ok, so let’s start with this section. Great, glad you purchased the physical books that you felt that added value to your gaming experience. You could have just went with the SRD alone as that gives you enough to play D&D. So first of all, at least you recognize the fact that you are not entitled to the digital content here. Usually that is the biggest complaint.
So what you are getting is a searchable digital tool that you can easily point and click and it takes you right to what you were looking for. It also have links to other books so you don't have to skip around looking for info or even missing info you didn't realize was there (thought it would be nice if it were only the books you owned, but they try to show value in the other books as well).
Errata: the digital content already has the errata in it that they messed up before printing. I am sure you are not going in and changing everything or printing out pages and adding it to your book.
weight: books weigh a lot. When i was doing con's and game days back in my RPGA 3.5 days, I had a small suitcase to haul my numerous books, dice, miniatures, etc. With this you can head out with a small backpack instead.
Development: Your book is static, nothing will ever change except it will degrade with time, could fall apart and you could get a new one from Wizards. The tool will be developed, content and new books added as they come out, and are actually cheaper than buying the physical copies even on sale through Amazon.
Now your other complaint about Wizards taking down other sites. It is their IP, they can do with it as they wish. Think of what you do for a living. What pays your bills and puts food on your table. Now, what if someone came along and used what you do and gave it out for free and you got nothing for it. Would you be ok with it? Now, i know you said you bought all the books you wanted and certainly feel you had a right to all of that info online because it was easy to use and made things quicker, it was free convenience that you were happy to use. However, was there items/feats/anything from other books you DIDN'T own that you used? And how about all those that didn’t buy the books but still used it for free? Is that ok? So to protect themselves (and our hobby), they took a legal course of action that resulted in what we have today. At least we have a digital option and they didn't go and say no to everything. Yes, sometimes convenience costs extra and you have to decide if it is worth it.
Now about Pathfinder. I will have to thank them as they truly did save the hobby when 4e came out and was such a mess. At that point, I am sure someone up high looked down and almost scrapped D&D altogether. It is their choice for their business model how they do things. I have no complaints about them, but to compare and say that just because they do it that way, you should too is wrong. Just because one theater can show the movie for $5, then all movie theaters should too because they show it can work. It is called business and if the model does not work, the company will know it soon enough. However, this is only my opinion and thankfully, we all have the freedom to disagree.
as a disclaimer, i do not own anything through DNDBeyond. I haven't bought in either. I am waiting to see if a Windows App for offline use will be created. If so, then i could see myself going all in even though I have a physical copy of every 5e book published by WOTC (yes, i have all the core, supplement, adventures and most of the DM Screens).
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I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
When you compete with stolen IP, that is not competing. That's cheating.
If you go about it the right way, like Roll20 or DnDbeyond then you can compete against each other using the proper channels.
It's only stolen because Wizards decided it was stolen. They could've made everything part of their SRD if they wanted to. Or at the very least, much more. Look at the 3.5e SRD vs the 5e one and you can see the huge gulf between the two. In fact, look at the Pathfinder SRD. It has, I'm pretty sure, absolutely everything Paizo has ever published in it. And again, I fully acknowledge that Wizards is legally within their rights to do this, but it doesn't change the fact that as a consumer, I was happier using other sites and services. I imagine D&D Beyond would be a lot better if it did actually have to compete, even if it's competition with other people making character creators in their spare time and surviving on Paypal donations.
I love this logic. Well, i guess if someone steals your car, it is only stolen because you decided it was stolen. Yes they could have put it all in the SRD, but since they didn't, then yes, it is illegal and stolen. that's how it works!
I bet as a consumer you were happy to use those other sites and services who where using the content illegally because they didn't license it properly and you didn't have to pay for it. Thus, you were also stealing when doing that. But of course i am sure you only used the content that you had purchased the books for and nothing else right?
This last line is also another great one. You want to allow other people to use protected copyright information that someone else thought up, created, published for free so that they can make a tool and charge others to use? and you don't think that the original entity that PAID their employee's to think and develop all this up shouldn't regain any monies spent?
Here is an idea, i would like for you to go out, develop your very own system. I mean the whole shebang: the world, gods, character building, rules systems etc. (yes, i know D&D has been around a long time, but hey, it is their stuff after all). Then I want you to figure out how much time and money you spent to develop it all. then i want you to give it out for free and let others create a tool and charge people (even if it is paypal donation) and see how you feel about that.
Or if that is too much, go ahead and develop a character creator tool for personal use using only information from the books you have purchased, then as you add a book, you can recode and figure out how to add all that new info in. If you can't or unable to, then maybe hire someone and see how much it actually costs.
Ok, so let’s start with this section. Great, glad you purchased the physical books that you felt that added value to your gaming experience. You could have just went with the SRD alone as that gives you enough to play D&D. So first of all, at least you recognize the fact that you are not entitled to the digital content here. Usually that is the biggest complaint.
So what you are getting is a searchable digital tool that you can easily point and click and it takes you right to what you were looking for. It also have links to other books so you don't have to skip around looking for info or even missing info you didn't realize was there (thought it would be nice if it were only the books you owned, but they try to show value in the other books as well).
Errata: the digital content already has the errata in it that they messed up before printing. I am sure you are not going in and changing everything or printing out pages and adding it to your book.
weight: books weigh a lot. When i was doing con's and game days back in my RPGA 3.5 days, I had a small suitcase to haul my numerous books, dice, miniatures, etc. With this you can head out with a small backpack instead.
Development: Your book is static, nothing will ever change except it will degrade with time, could fall apart and you could get a new one from Wizards. The tool will be developed, content and new books added as they come out, and are actually cheaper than buying the physical copies even on sale through Amazon.
Now your other complaint about Wizards taking down other sites. It is their IP, they can do with it as they wish. Think of what you do for a living. What pays your bills and puts food on your table. Now, what if someone came along and used what you do and gave it out for free and you got nothing for it. Would you be ok with it? Now, i know you said you bought all the books you wanted and certainly feel you had a right to all of that info online because it was easy to use and made things quicker, it was free convenience that you were happy to use. However, was there items/feats/anything from other books you DIDN'T own that you used? And how about all those that didn’t buy the books but still used it for free? Is that ok? So to protect themselves (and our hobby), they took a legal course of action that resulted in what we have today. At least we have a digital option and they didn't go and say no to everything. Yes, sometimes convenience costs extra and you have to decide if it is worth it.
Now about Pathfinder. I will have to thank them as they truly did save the hobby when 4e came out and was such a mess. At that point, I am sure someone up high looked down and almost scrapped D&D altogether. It is their choice for their business model how they do things. I have no complaints about them, but to compare and say that just because they do it that way, you should too is wrong. Just because one theater can show the movie for $5, then all movie theaters should too because they show it can work. It is called business and if the model does not work, the company will know it soon enough. However, this is only my opinion and thankfully, we all have the freedom to disagree.
as a disclaimer, i do not own anything through DNDBeyond. I haven't bought in either. I am waiting to see if a Windows App for offline use will be created. If so, then i could see myself going all in even though I have a physical copy of every 5e book published by WOTC (yes, i have all the core, supplement, adventures and most of the DM Screens).
This is a lot to go through, so please forgive me if I miss anything.
SRD: Yes, I could be playing using just the SRD, but obviously that's not really a complete game and honestly there are much better free RPGs to play.
Digital searchable tool/weight/errata: These are all great reasons why I'd like a PDF.
Development: This is actually a double-edged sword. The stuff you 'own' from D&D Beyond, you only have access to so long as the site remains up and it remains usable on whichever device you'd like to use it on. You say yourself that you've waiting on an app for offline use so presumably you share this concern.
IP: Yes, Wizards can do what they want. I've acknowledged this plenty of times, in plenty of places. The problem is that, the argument of 'how would you like it if someone gave away your work for free' is that, other people put in the same work as what went into D&D Beyond (Since, as has been stated plenty of times by others, Wizards didn't develop D&D Beyond, so its not like the devs were the ones that made D&D.) and felt comfortable giving that away for free, so I'm having a hard time drumming up sympathy in that regard.
Pathfinder: Maybe the everything-is-SRD model is truly unsustainable for Wizards for some unknown reason. Fine. But we'll never know, and because we'll never know, there'll always be a shadow of doubt that it would be viable, but D&D Beyond just means more money.
I love this logic. Well, i guess if someone steals your car, it is only stolen because you decided it was stolen. Yes they could have, but since they didn't, then yes, it is illegal and stolen. that's how it works!
I bet as a consumer you were happy to use those other sites and services who where using the content illegally because they didn't license it properly and you didn't have to pay for it. Thus, you were also stealing when doing that. But of course i am sure you only used the content that you had purchased the books for and nothing else right?
This last line is also another great one. You want to allow other people to use protected copyright information that someone else thought up, created, published for free so that they can make a tool and charge others to use? and you don't think that the original entity that PAID their employee's to think and develop all this up shouldn't regain any monies spent?
Here is an idea, i would like for you to go out, develop your very own system. I mean the whole shebang: the world, gods, character building, rules systems etc. (yes, i know D&D has been around a long time, but hey, it is their stuff after all). Then I want you to figure out how much time and money you spent to develop it all. then i want you to give it out for free and let others create a tool and charge people (even if it is paypal donation) and see how you feel about that.
Or if that is too much, go ahead and develop a character creator tool for personal use using only information from the books you have purchased, then as you add a book, you can recode and figure out how to add all that new info in. If you can't or unable to, then maybe hire someone and see how much it actually costs.
It's important to make a distinction between piracy and theft here. Normally I'd agree that there's no distinction between the two. Pirating a copy of a video game isn't meaningfully different from stealing a physical copy of it from a store. But we're talking about information, which is a little different. Is it theft if I let my friend use my Player's Handbook? Is it theft if I scan some pictures of my Player's Handbook and send them to my friends? What's the line?
As a consumer I was absolutely happy to use those other sites and services. They were convenient and free. But if there's no free alternative, then I guess I'm just going to go back to using form-fillable PDFs? I would pay something like $10 for a character creator that had all of the content currently available for 5e. Maybe it's ridiculous to think I should only spend that much, but, I think it's ridiculous to charge $30 just for access to the Player's Handbook in D&D Beyond. That's the real thing here. I already have a baseline, and honestly, it's not that bad. But using other sites just made it quicker to fill things in. I am not interested in any of the other features of D&D Beyond, especially at those prices.
I hate the whole 'if you don't like it go make your own' argument, because it's almost always missing the point when it's made. I am a game developer. I made a game and I released it for free. It currently has 1.65 million plays on the site it's been hosted on. Over the last two years I've received a decent amount in ad revenue, but nowhere near enough to cover the cost of development if I took into account the cost of what my wages would be for working on it. The alternative to me releasing it for free is just people not playing it, because no one is going to spend ten bucks or whatever for a copy. We live in an age when entertainment is cheap and all around us. There's plenty of other games to play.
So, I could go design my own tabletop RPG. And I could program a character creator tool for 5e. But, like I just said, there are plenty of other games to play. When I saw that my favorite character creator site had been cease-and-desisted, all it made me think was that there were other tabletop RPGs to play instead. My group just started up a Savage Worlds campaign, with a free online character creator. I've also recently picked up PDFs for several other systems. I don't have to play D&D. And I do want to remind you, the essential core of my original post was, 'this is not a good value proposition for me'. I'm not entitled to a free character creator, no, but honestly, I just don't need a character creator so badly that I'm going to shell out over a hundred bucks for one.
It's important to make a distinction between piracy and theft here. Normally I'd agree that there's no distinction between the two. Pirating a copy of a video game isn't meaningfully different from stealing a physical copy of it from a store. But we're talking about information, which is a little different. Is it theft if I let my friend use my Player's Handbook? Is it theft if I scan some pictures of my Player's Handbook and send them to my friends? What's the line?
And I do want to remind you, the essential core of my original post was, 'this is not a good value proposition for me'. I'm not entitled to a free character creator, no, but honestly, I just don't need a character creator so badly that I'm going to shell out over a hundred bucks for one.
Is it ok for you to lend someone your book? sure. The book itself, no matter the owner was sold and the contents were properly paid for back up the chain so everyone gets their cut. Now to make copies and provide them to that user? no it is not. Those copies are called reproductions and is against the copyright law.
Since you have stated many times, this is not for you and that, in your opinion, there are much better games out there, I doubt we will see you around. I hope all goes well for you.
Edit: I removed all the fluff that added no usefulness to this conversation and would just continue an internet argument.
Just chiming in because this is a point I see constantly.
The DDB version of a "book" does not cost $30. The $30 gets you the "book", the database listing, and the character builder options.
Yes, you can get the book from Amazon for that price, but you don't get a parsed database or an automated character builder with that.
If all you want is the text from the book in a digital format, you can buy just the Compendium Content for $20, which is cheaper than Amazon.
If you only want the character builder and access to the database, then you can buy what you need piecemeal for way cheaper.
If you want a PDF, you basically want a hamburger from a taco stand. Yes, you have a right as a consumer to tell the people working at the taco stand that they could have your business if they sold hamburgers, but they aren't struggling by only selling tacos, and you're kinda holding up the line and annoying everyone else who cam here for the tacos. The sign on the front said tacos, so continuing to complain about the lack of burgers is kinda silly after a certain point.
Personal opinion, but DDB > PDFs anyway. PDFs are slower, less organized, and harder to sort through than the actual book. They are only more convenient because they are digital, otherwise, I find them to be kind of awkward to use.
Regarding the ability to save the data forever, I don't think there's any rational reason to fear DDB going anywhere any time soon. No one who paid for it didn't take the fact that the servers will one day go down into consideration. But I imagine that by the time that happens, the user base for the content on the site will be so low that I probably won't be using it anymore anyway. I wish this argument would go away.
Plus going forward when new editions come out, hopefully they will be on the ball and be ready. Only downside would be is if WOTC doesn't renew licensing or makes a competing product, but they already have that with Roll20 and Fantasy Grounds so I don't see that happening.
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I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
When you compete with stolen IP, that is not competing. That's cheating.
If you go about it the right way, like Roll20 or DnDbeyond then you can compete against each other using the proper channels.
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Subscriptions do not get you any new content no. You have to purchase each of the books to do that. Or if you just want certain pieces, like a subclass or a race you can buy those for usually $1.99 each.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Tooltips (Help/aid)
Ok, so let’s start with this section. Great, glad you purchased the physical books that you felt that added value to your gaming experience. You could have just went with the SRD alone as that gives you enough to play D&D. So first of all, at least you recognize the fact that you are not entitled to the digital content here. Usually that is the biggest complaint.
So what you are getting is a searchable digital tool that you can easily point and click and it takes you right to what you were looking for. It also have links to other books so you don't have to skip around looking for info or even missing info you didn't realize was there (thought it would be nice if it were only the books you owned, but they try to show value in the other books as well).
Errata: the digital content already has the errata in it that they messed up before printing. I am sure you are not going in and changing everything or printing out pages and adding it to your book.
weight: books weigh a lot. When i was doing con's and game days back in my RPGA 3.5 days, I had a small suitcase to haul my numerous books, dice, miniatures, etc. With this you can head out with a small backpack instead.
Development: Your book is static, nothing will ever change except it will degrade with time, could fall apart and you could get a new one from Wizards. The tool will be developed, content and new books added as they come out, and are actually cheaper than buying the physical copies even on sale through Amazon.
Now your other complaint about Wizards taking down other sites. It is their IP, they can do with it as they wish. Think of what you do for a living. What pays your bills and puts food on your table. Now, what if someone came along and used what you do and gave it out for free and you got nothing for it. Would you be ok with it? Now, i know you said you bought all the books you wanted and certainly feel you had a right to all of that info online because it was easy to use and made things quicker, it was free convenience that you were happy to use. However, was there items/feats/anything from other books you DIDN'T own that you used? And how about all those that didn’t buy the books but still used it for free? Is that ok? So to protect themselves (and our hobby), they took a legal course of action that resulted in what we have today. At least we have a digital option and they didn't go and say no to everything. Yes, sometimes convenience costs extra and you have to decide if it is worth it.
Now about Pathfinder. I will have to thank them as they truly did save the hobby when 4e came out and was such a mess. At that point, I am sure someone up high looked down and almost scrapped D&D altogether. It is their choice for their business model how they do things. I have no complaints about them, but to compare and say that just because they do it that way, you should too is wrong. Just because one theater can show the movie for $5, then all movie theaters should too because they show it can work. It is called business and if the model does not work, the company will know it soon enough. However, this is only my opinion and thankfully, we all have the freedom to disagree.
as a disclaimer, i do not own anything through DNDBeyond. I haven't bought in either. I am waiting to see if a Windows App for offline use will be created. If so, then i could see myself going all in even though I have a physical copy of every 5e book published by WOTC (yes, i have all the core, supplement, adventures and most of the DM Screens).
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
Damn, I missed the Cyber Monday bundle sale...
I'm going to try and get notices to this so I don't miss the next sale.
I'm looking for the next 25% off. I'm on that like white on rice!!!!
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
Just chiming in because this is a point I see constantly.
The DDB version of a "book" does not cost $30. The $30 gets you the "book", the database listing, and the character builder options.
Yes, you can get the book from Amazon for that price, but you don't get a parsed database or an automated character builder with that.
If all you want is the text from the book in a digital format, you can buy just the Compendium Content for $20, which is cheaper than Amazon.
If you only want the character builder and access to the database, then you can buy what you need piecemeal for way cheaper.
If you want a PDF, you basically want a hamburger from a taco stand. Yes, you have a right as a consumer to tell the people working at the taco stand that they could have your business if they sold hamburgers, but they aren't struggling by only selling tacos, and you're kinda holding up the line and annoying everyone else who cam here for the tacos. The sign on the front said tacos, so continuing to complain about the lack of burgers is kinda silly after a certain point.
Personal opinion, but DDB > PDFs anyway. PDFs are slower, less organized, and harder to sort through than the actual book. They are only more convenient because they are digital, otherwise, I find them to be kind of awkward to use.
Regarding the ability to save the data forever, I don't think there's any rational reason to fear DDB going anywhere any time soon. No one who paid for it didn't take the fact that the servers will one day go down into consideration. But I imagine that by the time that happens, the user base for the content on the site will be so low that I probably won't be using it anymore anyway. I wish this argument would go away.
Plus going forward when new editions come out, hopefully they will be on the ball and be ready. Only downside would be is if WOTC doesn't renew licensing or makes a competing product, but they already have that with Roll20 and Fantasy Grounds so I don't see that happening.
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.