Player Races Leaks from Monsters of the Multiverse

Quote from Xalthu >>

I think it's important to keep in mind these are completely theoretical issues. Possible -- maybe even likely -- but theoretical issues. I mean, the book has yet to be published. It's tough to say that its already causing problems. Its causing handwringing among us forum-dwellers, but we're a pretty vocal minority. Could be that WotC and Fandom have it all sorted out. Could be they don't. We're all just speculating.

I think that's pretty likely. Whatever the solution is, it's probably complicated, and the sort of announcement they (dndbeyond) want to market and manage very carefully. The dev updates may be under a gag order, essentially, while some ducks get put in a row...

...or sure, maybe the sky is falling and they are all incompetent devs and incompetent publishers who never think things through (and get totally owned by randos on the internet), yeah that sounds pretty likely ;)

Quote from Mezzurah >>

Quote from Golaryn >>

...Again, this is not based on any actual knowledge and is just a wild conspiracy theory I came up with. 

 Mmmm, needs more lizard people and chemtrails.

 I will keep this in mind the next time I create a conspiracy theory.

The big-brain move would be including lizardtrails and chem people.  They're all expecting the other way around by now.

Quote from Yurei1453 >>

The big-brain move would be including lizardtrails and chem people.  They're all expecting the other way around by now.

 *takes notes*

Quote from Golaryn >>

Quote from Xalthu >>

Quote from Golaryn >>

Quote from pangurjan >>

Quote from Golaryn >>

But this is very much a 3 to 3.5 level of change, at least for Races.

Which in principle I'm fine with (I know others who complained loudly about 3.5). The difference is that there was no DDB equivalent back in 3rd edition. 

 Yeah, I don't know if WotC actually cares about this site though.  It is very clear that this site was never really carefully considered from the beginning. Thus the issues this books is causing.

 I think it's important to keep in mind these are completely theoretical issues. Possible -- maybe even likely -- but theoretical issues. I mean, the book has yet to be published. It's tough to say that its already causing problems. Its causing handwringing among us forum-dwellers, but we're a pretty vocal minority. Could be that WotC and Fandom have it all sorted out. Could be they don't. We're all just speculating. 

 Well, not completely theoretical from the user perspective.  There was a HUGE stink over the errata last month and how it affected DnDBeyond.  Now, the number of people that really cared was small, but not insignificant. While the Errata didn't really do anything to change the game, this book actually does.

Moreover this isn't the sort of speculation dismissed by idleness or "mere" or what have you.  Xalthu does their minimizing of concern a disservice when they say "the book has yet to be published."  When was the last time a book was slated to be published in less than two weeks with no availability in the marketplace here at DDB?  If it were "all sorted out" how come there's been no a definitive word from DDB management as to how exactly this book will be handled?  The impact of the book is clear since it's been practically leaked in its entirety that when Nerd Immersion does his read through of his advance copy (as he does on his channel right before release) he might as well just recycle his two recent videos on the race updates. Claiming the unknowns are as unknown as Xalthu is claiming is actually ignoring almost all fact and precedent.  That's one way to go about things.

Quote from Golaryn >>

Quote from Mergon >>

Quote from pangurjan >>

Quote from Mergon >> 

Since I use D&D Beyond and Owlbear.Rodeo to run my sessions online, my sessions will stop until I can find a replacement for D&D Beyond.

What do you need replaced? There's hundreds of online dice rollers and character stuff as well as the work-in-progress-anyway encounter tool stuff can be done the old fashioned way.  

 I use D&D Beyond exclusively for character creation. I use their Campaigns to share my purchased books (I own everything except Rick and Morty which is just a waste of storage space in my opinion).
I now use the Encounter Builder/Combat Tracker also. But the biggest loss will be shared content, and the inability to use the character creator should the racial changes be forced across the board.

Don't get me wrong, I love D&D Beyond, but if the racial changes are Forced on use, the sit will no longer be feasible for me.

 DnDBeyond will do what WotC tells them to do.  All the complaining in the world will do you no good here.  WotC is who you need to talk to.

D&D Beyond does decide HOW they implement a new book into the website. I am just saying that the new material should be implemented in such a way as those who do not want to use the new material are NOT forced to use it if they don't want (buy) the book. 1 new book should not change everything you have spent hundred, or over a thousand, dollars to purchase. Check the price of bundles these days.

Quote from Mergon >>

Quote from Golaryn >>

Quote from Mergon >>

Quote from pangurjan >>

Quote from Mergon >> 

Since I use D&D Beyond and Owlbear.Rodeo to run my sessions online, my sessions will stop until I can find a replacement for D&D Beyond.

What do you need replaced? There's hundreds of online dice rollers and character stuff as well as the work-in-progress-anyway encounter tool stuff can be done the old fashioned way.  

 I use D&D Beyond exclusively for character creation. I use their Campaigns to share my purchased books (I own everything except Rick and Morty which is just a waste of storage space in my opinion).
I now use the Encounter Builder/Combat Tracker also. But the biggest loss will be shared content, and the inability to use the character creator should the racial changes be forced across the board.

Don't get me wrong, I love D&D Beyond, but if the racial changes are Forced on use, the sit will no longer be feasible for me.

 DnDBeyond will do what WotC tells them to do.  All the complaining in the world will do you no good here.  WotC is who you need to talk to.

D&D Beyond does decide HOW they implement a new book into the website. I am just saying that the new material should be implemented in such a way as those who do not want to use the new material are NOT forced to use it if they don't want (buy) the book. 1 new book should not change everything you have spent hundred, or over a thousand, dollars to purchase. Check the price of bundles these days.

 Actually, they might not be able to.  Implementation of IP material is a very likely component of their license.  They may have no choice but to override the older material.  

Quote from Mergon >>

D&D Beyond does decide HOW they implement a new book into the website.

DDB has to faithfully reproduce the contents of books, including errata when those become available. No choice about that, it's part of the licence. It gets advertised as an advantage to us, which is fair enough, but regardless of the reason or how it gets presented it shows DDB's hands are tied in some ways. If WotC decides that M³'s contents update what's in Mordenkainen but don't change the latter (this is just one hypothetical and not necessarily likely possibility, could turn out to be anything in practice), then DDB will not be allowed to change Mordenkainen's - with toggles or otherwise - and will implement M³ as a completely separate book, resulting in two versions of a bunch of races on the site with ownership of one version not including ownership of the other one as well. Again, this is a for instance; I don't know anything more about what WotC wants than any of you. 

Quote from Mergon >>

D&D Beyond does decide HOW they implement a new book into the website. I am just saying that the new material should be implemented in such a way as those who do not want to use the new material are NOT forced to use it if they don't want (buy) the book. 1 new book should not change everything you have spent hundred, or over a thousand, dollars to purchase. Check the price of bundles these days.

 You have been using this site long enough to know that this just isn't true.  I am sorry. I really am, but this site has licensing agreements in order to legally provide this service, and the nature of that agreement is predominantly in the hands of WotC.  I don't know if you were reading the forums last month when the latest errata was made.  There were people saying and asking for the exact same thing you are. It didn't do them any more good than it is doing for you right now.  I am sorry.

Quote from pangurjan >>

Quote from Mergon >>

D&D Beyond does decide HOW they implement a new book into the website.

DDB has to faithfully reproduce the contents of books, including errata when those become available. No choice about that, it's part of the licence. It gets advertised as an advantage to us, which is fair enough, but regardless of the reason or how it gets presented it shows DDB's hands are tied in some ways. If WotC decides that M³'s contents update what's in Mordenkainen but don't change the latter (this is just one hypothetical and not necessarily likely possibility, could turn out to be anything in practice), then DDB will not be allowed to change Mordenkainen's - with toggles or otherwise - and will implement M³ as a completely separate book, resulting in two versions of a bunch of races on the site with ownership of one version not including ownership of the other one as well. Again, this is a for instance; I don't know anything more about what WotC wants than any of you. 

 There could be multiple versions, but that choice will be up to WotC not DnDBeyond.

I liked fixed ASI because it added flavor to the race.  IF someone prefers Tasha's method of floating. That's fine. But I think both methods have their own place.

Just put Elves have a tendency to be more agile so a +2 to dexterity; but if your elf ate too many sweet rolls and read wizard scrolls then he could have a +2 in intelligence. 

Quote from Mergon >>

D&D Beyond does decide HOW they implement a new book into the website. I am just saying that the new material should be implemented in such a way as those who do not want to use the new material are NOT forced to use it if they don't want (buy) the book. 1 new book should not change everything you have spent hundred, or over a thousand, dollars to purchase. Check the price of bundles these days.

This is a case for what you want to see.  As a licensee, it is likely operating policies and procedures must satisfy WotC to some degree.  They are definitely bound to errata, and not providing the prior text.  As policy, updates are handled in the same way.  I don't think DDB just made up that policy on the spot, but likely with their consultation with WotC.  Does anyone know if Roll20 or Fantasy Grounds does anything different with their similar licenses?  

WotC's point of view is that this one book is what D&D should be going forward.  If you have significant holdings like a bundle on DDB, this has happened to you during the release of new books that you may have had no interest in buying.  This is just at a much larger scale, and the silence from all parties is causing understandable consternation.

Side thought, saw an article in my feed that the ENWorld 5.5 project is avialavble for free on Fantasy Grounds, wonder what it says about their thinking going forward with WotC, or if ENWorld is just being aggressively generous to spread its content.

Quote from Golaryn >>

I could also see it opening up more possibilities if you drop the "Core" race concept.  It would be easier to publish a Seafaring Dwarf if you don't have to deal with the excess baggage of things like Stone Cunning and the like.  

 

 Just make like the variant human and say that the seafaring-ness replaces stonecunning. Like before, with all the tiefling variants. :p

Quote from trigojon >>

Quote from Mergon >>

  The 'Monsters of the Multiverse' material, from what I have seen from the leaked material, will NEVER see my gaming table. I most likely will not play in sessions that use it either (at this time). If D&D Beyond forces us to use the racial changes this book gives us, the character creator will become useless to me, and all the money I have spent here will have been wasted.

Please, please, please D&D Beyond. Add this material behind a toggle that allows us to continue using the races as they currently are and not as presented in this new book.

 You've been a member for 4 and a half years or so. Things changing after that long isn't money wasted, its a business keeping up with a changing world. It sucks that you won't use the tools anymore, but that's the model of DDB. They literally have to update everything that Wizards tells them to.

 Nope, sounds like wasted money to me. You paid for something you expected to stay for a while and then suddenly it doesn't exist, like 5 years into its existence? When it was expected to have a much longer lifespan than that? That money is wasted and isn't coming back.

Quote from Lycaon1765p >>

Nope, sounds like wasted money to me. You paid for something you expected to stay for a while and then suddenly it doesn't exist, like 5 years into its existence? When it was expected to have a much longer lifespan than that? That money is wasted and isn't coming back.

Think how much money people have wasted on Apple products then

Quote from RoughCoronet0 >>

Quote from Golaryn >>

<Snip>

 

 LOL Right?!

If I understand what was leaked correctly, the Mimicry Ability is still part of the race, they just dropped the "mandated" RP part. 

 In Nerd Immersions’s part two of the PC Race leaks, the Kenku was shown to indeed still have Mimicry but without the mandate to have to speak with it. They also gained a neat ability to gain advantage on any skill they are proficient with a number of times equal to their prof bonus. They can also be small size as well as medium now. 

 Oh thank the gods, I was wondering how apparently everyone just hated the mimicry ability just because not everyone was good a doing voices??

Quote from AntonSirius >>

Quote from Lycaon1765p >>

Nope, sounds like wasted money to me. You paid for something you expected to stay for a while and then suddenly it doesn't exist, like 5 years into its existence? When it was expected to have a much longer lifespan than that? That money is wasted and isn't coming back.

 

Think how much money people have wasted on Apple products then

Bahahahaha! I feel attacked. :p

Sad that they sugar-buffed a bunch of races and didn't think to even throw the poor ol' standard human a hand. I mean seriously, if you were going to make a whole book of updates and not even make the most "Why play this when the other option is clearly better?" race get an upgrade......

Quote from Lycaon1765p >>

Quote from RoughCoronet0 >>

Quote from Golaryn >>

<Snip>

 

 LOL Right?!

If I understand what was leaked correctly, the Mimicry Ability is still part of the race, they just dropped the "mandated" RP part. 

 In Nerd Immersions’s part two of the PC Race leaks, the Kenku was shown to indeed still have Mimicry but without the mandate to have to speak with it. They also gained a neat ability to gain advantage on any skill they are proficient with a number of times equal to their prof bonus. They can also be small size as well as medium now. 

 Oh thank the gods, I was wondering how apparently everyone just hated the mimicry ability just because not everyone was good a doing voices??

 I will contrast this makes Kenku just another normal bird race.  Among the aarakocra and Owlin, Kenku now feel like something that could be done better by just taking a single level in sorc, war, wiz, or bard for the mimicry abilities.  The only part that made Kenku worth existing against the two other bird folks is that it was more thematic - now, it isn't anymore.

Quote from Lycaon1765p >>

Sad that they sugar-buffed a bunch of races and didn't think to even throw the poor ol' standard human a hand. I mean seriously, if you were going to make a whole book of updates and not even make the most "Why play this when the other option is clearly better?" race get an upgrade......

None of the PHB races are in this.