But this is very much a 3 to 3.5 level of change, at least for Races.
Which in principle I'm fine with (I know others who complained loudly about 3.5). The difference is that there was no DDB equivalent back in 3rd edition.
Yeah, I don't know if WotC actually cares about this site though. It is very clear that this site was never really carefully considered from the beginning. Thus the issues this books is causing.
I think it's important to keep in mind these are completely theoretical issues. Possible -- maybe even likely -- but theoretical issues. I mean, the book has yet to be published. It's tough to say that its already causing problems. Its causing handwringing among us forum-dwellers, but we're a pretty vocal minority. Could be that WotC and Fandom have it all sorted out. Could be they don't. We're all just speculating.
But this is very much a 3 to 3.5 level of change, at least for Races.
Which in principle I'm fine with (I know others who complained loudly about 3.5). The difference is that there was no DDB equivalent back in 3rd edition.
Yeah, I don't know if WotC actually cares about this site though. It is very clear that this site was never really carefully considered from the beginning. Thus the issues this books is causing.
It's a 3rd party site, so no reason to even consider it until someone came knocking for a licence. I do think WotC cares now, since DDB has been another visibility booster for years, but how much is a different question and some of the licence details were clearly not thought through sufficiently by either party back then (hindsight's 20/20, I don't think foreseeing everything was ever a real possibility regardless of effort). The onus here is very much on WotC though, they're the ones who decide on the publication model for D&D. This doesn't have to be an issue, but then it shouldn't have been an issue for a while now - the particulars for M³ and the bundle have been known for a long time - and arguably never had to be one in the first place.
While this is wildly off topic at this point, but I have a theory about the current situation. It is just purely speculation and tinfoil hat type stuff...
Most of the surveys over the past year have asked about online tools. During that time, DnDBeyond has dropped UA, and seems to have slowed it's progress when implementing new things. It could be that the surveys have told WotC that there is money to be made in Online Services and maybe they want to buy DnDBeyond. Fandom said no or wanted too much so WotC is taking advantage of the current set of changes to "break" the site so that either a) they sell at a lower price or b) are forcing them out of business so they can do their own thing without the extra competition. The reason that the Dev Update has been cancelled twice at the last minute is that the two companies are in talks and they keep missing their deadlines.
WotC, in spite of what people think, are not unfamiliar with online services. They have MtG Arena and before that MtG Online. Building their own D&D Online service is not a big leap for them IF they think there is money in it, which there never really was... till now.
Again, this is not based on any actual knowledge and is just a wild conspiracy theory I came up with.
But this is very much a 3 to 3.5 level of change, at least for Races.
Which in principle I'm fine with (I know others who complained loudly about 3.5). The difference is that there was no DDB equivalent back in 3rd edition.
Yeah, I don't know if WotC actually cares about this site though. It is very clear that this site was never really carefully considered from the beginning. Thus the issues this books is causing.
I think it's important to keep in mind these are completely theoretical issues. Possible -- maybe even likely -- but theoretical issues. I mean, the book has yet to be published. It's tough to say that its already causing problems. Its causing handwringing among us forum-dwellers, but we're a pretty vocal minority. Could be that WotC and Fandom have it all sorted out. Could be they don't. We're all just speculating.
Well, not completely theoretical from the user perspective. There was a HUGE stink over the errata last month and how it affected DnDBeyond. Now, the number of people that really cared was small, but not insignificant. While the Errata didn't really do anything to change the game, this book actually does.
I think it's important to keep in mind these are completely theoretical issues. Possible -- maybe even likely -- but theoretical issues. I mean, the book has yet to be published. It's tough to say that its already causing problems. Its causing handwringing among us forum-dwellers, but we're a pretty vocal minority. Could be that WotC and Fandom have it all sorted out. Could be they don't. We're all just speculating.
I think that's pretty likely. Whatever the solution is, it's probably complicated, and the sort of announcement they (dndbeyond) want to market and manage very carefully. The dev updates may be under a gag order, essentially, while some ducks get put in a row...
...or sure, maybe the sky is falling and they are all incompetent devs and incompetent publishers who never think things through (and get totally owned by randos on the internet), yeah that sounds pretty likely ;)
But this is very much a 3 to 3.5 level of change, at least for Races.
Which in principle I'm fine with (I know others who complained loudly about 3.5). The difference is that there was no DDB equivalent back in 3rd edition.
Yeah, I don't know if WotC actually cares about this site though. It is very clear that this site was never really carefully considered from the beginning. Thus the issues this books is causing.
I think it's important to keep in mind these are completely theoretical issues. Possible -- maybe even likely -- but theoretical issues. I mean, the book has yet to be published. It's tough to say that its already causing problems. Its causing handwringing among us forum-dwellers, but we're a pretty vocal minority. Could be that WotC and Fandom have it all sorted out. Could be they don't. We're all just speculating.
Well, not completely theoretical from the user perspective. There was a HUGE stink over the errata last month and how it affected DnDBeyond. Now, the number of people that really cared was small, but not insignificant. While the Errata didn't really do anything to change the game, this book actually does.
Moreover this isn't the sort of speculation dismissed by idleness or "mere" or what have you. Xalthu does their minimizing of concern a disservice when they say "the book has yet to be published." When was the last time a book was slated to be published in less than two weeks with no availability in the marketplace here at DDB? If it were "all sorted out" how come there's been no a definitive word from DDB management as to how exactly this book will be handled? The impact of the book is clear since it's been practically leaked in its entirety that when Nerd Immersion does his read through of his advance copy (as he does on his channel right before release) he might as well just recycle his two recent videos on the race updates. Claiming the unknowns are as unknown as Xalthu is claiming is actually ignoring almost all fact and precedent. That's one way to go about things.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Since I use D&D Beyond and Owlbear.Rodeo to run my sessions online, my sessions will stop until I can find a replacement for D&D Beyond.
What do you need replaced? There's hundreds of online dice rollers and character stuff as well as the work-in-progress-anyway encounter tool stuff can be done the old fashioned way.
I use D&D Beyond exclusively for character creation. I use their Campaigns to share my purchased books (I own everything except Rick and Morty which is just a waste of storage space in my opinion). I now use the Encounter Builder/Combat Tracker also. But the biggest loss will be shared content, and the inability to use the character creator should the racial changes be forced across the board.
Don't get me wrong, I love D&D Beyond, but if the racial changes are Forced on use, the sit will no longer be feasible for me.
DnDBeyond will do what WotC tells them to do. All the complaining in the world will do you no good here. WotC is who you need to talk to.
D&D Beyond does decide HOW they implement a new book into the website. I am just saying that the new material should be implemented in such a way as those who do not want to use the new material are NOT forced to use it if they don't want (buy) the book. 1 new book should not change everything you have spent hundred, or over a thousand, dollars to purchase. Check the price of bundles these days.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
Since I use D&D Beyond and Owlbear.Rodeo to run my sessions online, my sessions will stop until I can find a replacement for D&D Beyond.
What do you need replaced? There's hundreds of online dice rollers and character stuff as well as the work-in-progress-anyway encounter tool stuff can be done the old fashioned way.
I use D&D Beyond exclusively for character creation. I use their Campaigns to share my purchased books (I own everything except Rick and Morty which is just a waste of storage space in my opinion). I now use the Encounter Builder/Combat Tracker also. But the biggest loss will be shared content, and the inability to use the character creator should the racial changes be forced across the board.
Don't get me wrong, I love D&D Beyond, but if the racial changes are Forced on use, the sit will no longer be feasible for me.
DnDBeyond will do what WotC tells them to do. All the complaining in the world will do you no good here. WotC is who you need to talk to.
D&D Beyond does decide HOW they implement a new book into the website. I am just saying that the new material should be implemented in such a way as those who do not want to use the new material are NOT forced to use it if they don't want (buy) the book. 1 new book should not change everything you have spent hundred, or over a thousand, dollars to purchase. Check the price of bundles these days.
Actually, they might not be able to. Implementation of IP material is a very likely component of their license. They may have no choice but to override the older material.
D&D Beyond does decide HOW they implement a new book into the website.
DDB has to faithfully reproduce the contents of books, including errata when those become available. No choice about that, it's part of the licence. It gets advertised as an advantage to us, which is fair enough, but regardless of the reason or how it gets presented it shows DDB's hands are tied in some ways. If WotC decides that M³'s contents update what's in Mordenkainen but don't change the latter (this is just one hypothetical and not necessarily likely possibility, could turn out to be anything in practice), then DDB will not be allowed to change Mordenkainen's - with toggles or otherwise - and will implement M³ as a completely separate book, resulting in two versions of a bunch of races on the site with ownership of one version not including ownership of the other one as well. Again, this is a for instance; I don't know anything more about what WotC wants than any of you.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
D&D Beyond does decide HOW they implement a new book into the website. I am just saying that the new material should be implemented in such a way as those who do not want to use the new material are NOT forced to use it if they don't want (buy) the book. 1 new book should not change everything you have spent hundred, or over a thousand, dollars to purchase. Check the price of bundles these days.
You have been using this site long enough to know that this just isn't true. I am sorry. I really am, but this site has licensing agreements in order to legally provide this service, and the nature of that agreement is predominantly in the hands of WotC. I don't know if you were reading the forums last month when the latest errata was made. There were people saying and asking for the exact same thing you are. It didn't do them any more good than it is doing for you right now. I am sorry.
D&D Beyond does decide HOW they implement a new book into the website.
DDB has to faithfully reproduce the contents of books, including errata when those become available. No choice about that, it's part of the licence. It gets advertised as an advantage to us, which is fair enough, but regardless of the reason or how it gets presented it shows DDB's hands are tied in some ways. If WotC decides that M³'s contents update what's in Mordenkainen but don't change the latter (this is just one hypothetical and not necessarily likely possibility, could turn out to be anything in practice), then DDB will not be allowed to change Mordenkainen's - with toggles or otherwise - and will implement M³ as a completely separate book, resulting in two versions of a bunch of races on the site with ownership of one version not including ownership of the other one as well. Again, this is a for instance; I don't know anything more about what WotC wants than any of you.
There could be multiple versions, but that choice will be up to WotC not DnDBeyond.
I liked fixed ASI because it added flavor to the race. IF someone prefers Tasha's method of floating. That's fine. But I think both methods have their own place.
Just put Elves have a tendency to be more agile so a +2 to dexterity; but if your elf ate too many sweet rolls and read wizard scrolls then he could have a +2 in intelligence.
D&D Beyond does decide HOW they implement a new book into the website. I am just saying that the new material should be implemented in such a way as those who do not want to use the new material are NOT forced to use it if they don't want (buy) the book. 1 new book should not change everything you have spent hundred, or over a thousand, dollars to purchase. Check the price of bundles these days.
This is a case for what you want to see. As a licensee, it is likely operating policies and procedures must satisfy WotC to some degree. They are definitely bound to errata, and not providing the prior text. As policy, updates are handled in the same way. I don't think DDB just made up that policy on the spot, but likely with their consultation with WotC. Does anyone know if Roll20 or Fantasy Grounds does anything different with their similar licenses?
WotC's point of view is that this one book is what D&D should be going forward. If you have significant holdings like a bundle on DDB, this has happened to you during the release of new books that you may have had no interest in buying. This is just at a much larger scale, and the silence from all parties is causing understandable consternation.
Side thought, saw an article in my feed that the ENWorld 5.5 project is avialavble for free on Fantasy Grounds, wonder what it says about their thinking going forward with WotC, or if ENWorld is just being aggressively generous to spread its content.
I could also see it opening up more possibilities if you drop the "Core" race concept. It would be easier to publish a Seafaring Dwarf if you don't have to deal with the excess baggage of things like Stone Cunning and the like.
Just make like the variant human and say that the seafaring-ness replaces stonecunning. Like before, with all the tiefling variants. :p
The 'Monsters of the Multiverse' material, from what I have seen from the leaked material, will NEVER see my gaming table. I most likely will not play in sessions that use it either (at this time). If D&D Beyond forces us to use the racial changes this book gives us, the character creator will become useless to me, and all the money I have spent here will have been wasted.
Please, please, please D&D Beyond. Add this material behind a toggle that allows us to continue using the races as they currently are and not as presented in this new book.
You've been a member for 4 and a half years or so. Things changing after that long isn't money wasted, its a business keeping up with a changing world. It sucks that you won't use the tools anymore, but that's the model of DDB. They literally have to update everything that Wizards tells them to.
Nope, sounds like wasted money to me. You paid for something you expected to stay for a while and then suddenly it doesn't exist, like 5 years into its existence? When it was expected to have a much longer lifespan than that? That money is wasted and isn't coming back.
Nope, sounds like wasted money to me. You paid for something you expected to stay for a while and then suddenly it doesn't exist, like 5 years into its existence? When it was expected to have a much longer lifespan than that? That money is wasted and isn't coming back.
Think how much money people have wasted on Apple products then
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
If I understand what was leaked correctly, the Mimicry Ability is still part of the race, they just dropped the "mandated" RP part.
In Nerd Immersions’s part two of the PC Race leaks, the Kenku was shown to indeed still have Mimicry but without the mandate to have to speak with it. They also gained a neat ability to gain advantage on any skill they are proficient with a number of times equal to their prof bonus. They can also be small size as well as medium now.
Oh thank the gods, I was wondering how apparently everyone just hated the mimicry ability just because not everyone was good a doing voices??
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Er ek geng, þat er í þeim skóm er ek valda.
UwU
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I think it's important to keep in mind these are completely theoretical issues. Possible -- maybe even likely -- but theoretical issues. I mean, the book has yet to be published. It's tough to say that its already causing problems. Its causing handwringing among us forum-dwellers, but we're a pretty vocal minority. Could be that WotC and Fandom have it all sorted out. Could be they don't. We're all just speculating.
While this is wildly off topic at this point, but I have a theory about the current situation. It is just purely speculation and tinfoil hat type stuff...
Most of the surveys over the past year have asked about online tools. During that time, DnDBeyond has dropped UA, and seems to have slowed it's progress when implementing new things. It could be that the surveys have told WotC that there is money to be made in Online Services and maybe they want to buy DnDBeyond. Fandom said no or wanted too much so WotC is taking advantage of the current set of changes to "break" the site so that either a) they sell at a lower price or b) are forcing them out of business so they can do their own thing without the extra competition. The reason that the Dev Update has been cancelled twice at the last minute is that the two companies are in talks and they keep missing their deadlines.
WotC, in spite of what people think, are not unfamiliar with online services. They have MtG Arena and before that MtG Online. Building their own D&D Online service is not a big leap for them IF they think there is money in it, which there never really was... till now.
Again, this is not based on any actual knowledge and is just a wild conspiracy theory I came up with.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Well, not completely theoretical from the user perspective. There was a HUGE stink over the errata last month and how it affected DnDBeyond. Now, the number of people that really cared was small, but not insignificant. While the Errata didn't really do anything to change the game, this book actually does.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Mmmm, needs more lizard people and chemtrails.
I think that's pretty likely. Whatever the solution is, it's probably complicated, and the sort of announcement they (dndbeyond) want to market and manage very carefully. The dev updates may be under a gag order, essentially, while some ducks get put in a row...
...or sure, maybe the sky is falling and they are all incompetent devs and incompetent publishers who never think things through (and get totally owned by randos on the internet), yeah that sounds pretty likely ;)
I will keep this in mind the next time I create a conspiracy theory.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
The big-brain move would be including lizardtrails and chem people. They're all expecting the other way around by now.
Please do not contact or message me.
*takes notes*
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Moreover this isn't the sort of speculation dismissed by idleness or "mere" or what have you. Xalthu does their minimizing of concern a disservice when they say "the book has yet to be published." When was the last time a book was slated to be published in less than two weeks with no availability in the marketplace here at DDB? If it were "all sorted out" how come there's been no a definitive word from DDB management as to how exactly this book will be handled? The impact of the book is clear since it's been practically leaked in its entirety that when Nerd Immersion does his read through of his advance copy (as he does on his channel right before release) he might as well just recycle his two recent videos on the race updates. Claiming the unknowns are as unknown as Xalthu is claiming is actually ignoring almost all fact and precedent. That's one way to go about things.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
D&D Beyond does decide HOW they implement a new book into the website. I am just saying that the new material should be implemented in such a way as those who do not want to use the new material are NOT forced to use it if they don't want (buy) the book. 1 new book should not change everything you have spent hundred, or over a thousand, dollars to purchase. Check the price of bundles these days.
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
Actually, they might not be able to. Implementation of IP material is a very likely component of their license. They may have no choice but to override the older material.
DDB has to faithfully reproduce the contents of books, including errata when those become available. No choice about that, it's part of the licence. It gets advertised as an advantage to us, which is fair enough, but regardless of the reason or how it gets presented it shows DDB's hands are tied in some ways. If WotC decides that M³'s contents update what's in Mordenkainen but don't change the latter (this is just one hypothetical and not necessarily likely possibility, could turn out to be anything in practice), then DDB will not be allowed to change Mordenkainen's - with toggles or otherwise - and will implement M³ as a completely separate book, resulting in two versions of a bunch of races on the site with ownership of one version not including ownership of the other one as well. Again, this is a for instance; I don't know anything more about what WotC wants than any of you.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
You have been using this site long enough to know that this just isn't true. I am sorry. I really am, but this site has licensing agreements in order to legally provide this service, and the nature of that agreement is predominantly in the hands of WotC. I don't know if you were reading the forums last month when the latest errata was made. There were people saying and asking for the exact same thing you are. It didn't do them any more good than it is doing for you right now. I am sorry.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
There could be multiple versions, but that choice will be up to WotC not DnDBeyond.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I liked fixed ASI because it added flavor to the race. IF someone prefers Tasha's method of floating. That's fine. But I think both methods have their own place.
Just put Elves have a tendency to be more agile so a +2 to dexterity; but if your elf ate too many sweet rolls and read wizard scrolls then he could have a +2 in intelligence.
This is a case for what you want to see. As a licensee, it is likely operating policies and procedures must satisfy WotC to some degree. They are definitely bound to errata, and not providing the prior text. As policy, updates are handled in the same way. I don't think DDB just made up that policy on the spot, but likely with their consultation with WotC. Does anyone know if Roll20 or Fantasy Grounds does anything different with their similar licenses?
WotC's point of view is that this one book is what D&D should be going forward. If you have significant holdings like a bundle on DDB, this has happened to you during the release of new books that you may have had no interest in buying. This is just at a much larger scale, and the silence from all parties is causing understandable consternation.
Side thought, saw an article in my feed that the ENWorld 5.5 project is avialavble for free on Fantasy Grounds, wonder what it says about their thinking going forward with WotC, or if ENWorld is just being aggressively generous to spread its content.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Just make like the variant human and say that the seafaring-ness replaces stonecunning. Like before, with all the tiefling variants. :p
Er ek geng, þat er í þeim skóm er ek valda.
UwU
Nope, sounds like wasted money to me. You paid for something you expected to stay for a while and then suddenly it doesn't exist, like 5 years into its existence? When it was expected to have a much longer lifespan than that? That money is wasted and isn't coming back.
Er ek geng, þat er í þeim skóm er ek valda.
UwU
Think how much money people have wasted on Apple products then
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Oh thank the gods, I was wondering how apparently everyone just hated the mimicry ability just because not everyone was good a doing voices??
Er ek geng, þat er í þeim skóm er ek valda.
UwU
