Based on some of the bits of info dropped and comments about certain homebrew issues from Hartless, my guess is that a lot of future updates are tied to the revamped character sheet.
Things like upgrades to the homebrew system, campaign management, and maybe even the Twitch overlay could all be tied into this.
Badeye has mentioned in the past that they are at a point where they have to release things in super polished form because of the popularity of DDB. Some people are less tolerant of missteps or bugs when it’s a paid app in production rather than beta. Hell, even during the beta some people seemed to be less than understanding.
It has taken a while to get the sheet out and I haven’t seen much about campaign management yet. I have missed the last two dev streams due to life being busy at the moment, but I catch tidbits through the forums. I should go check those out this week.
All this said, I’ve been here since the first few days of the beta and it was one of the best experiences I had as a tester. The team takes feedback, considers it, and makes decisions based on what’s given. I don’t always agree with the decision, like the change to the monster stat blocks, but I know they considered my feedback based on how they’ve responded in the past.
I do wish there was an active list of the current roadmap showing what’s being worked on and what’s on the backburner. I understand why they can’t post something like that - you would have people constantly telling them what their priorities really should be when they don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes. I’ve seen it happen when they release stats and people then lecture them on why they are wrong without the full facts of how the stats are analyzed. Still, something along those lines would be cool.
All this said, I’m excited to see the new sheet and looking forward to the next phases of development. I check the change log a few times each day in the hopes of seeing the character sheet live. I get a little disappointed each time because it’s been so long in the making, but then I remind myself of all the big updates that have been implemented - custom backgrounds, races, and subclasses (which I didn’t expect for a long time).
Those were huge updates that added a lot of increased functionality to the app overall. They also came out in quick succession. I have a feeling those were tied to the backend changes being made to allow the revamp of the character sheet. I believe they have stated this. That helps keep a more level perspective.
til;dr - I understand the anticipation, I feel it too. I understand the disappointment, I feel that too. However, the massive amount of updates, added functionality, and consistent demonstration by the devs that they truly listen to community feedback has me feeling confident that it’s going to be great when it’s launched.
I sit here reading some of these post and I have to wonder at the lack of impatience that most of you have. While I also lack patience, should have considering I'm not exactly young , I don't have any patience for a product that doesn't work, so I would rather they take their time and get it right before they put it out. My 2 cents.
I have to wonder at the lack of impatience that most of you have.
I think the impatience is understandable.
When you see a cool new feature being discussed and demoed for month after month, and each time this new feature is being labeled as being on the "short term" roadmap, or that it's "close," it's natural to get excited. When months pass and there isn't any tangible evidence available that suggests that it actually *is* close, it's natural to grow impatient.
Yes, you want the product to ultimately be usable and as bug-free as possible once it's released, but I think many of the complaints are due to (my opinion) poorly managed expectations being set.
Yes, you want the product to ultimately be usable and as bug-free as possible once it's released, but I think many of the complaints are due to (my opinion) poorly managed expectations being set.
That might have something to do with it and play a part in it, but from the outside looking in, it certainly appears like ken51 has the right of it. Most complaints here appear more due to entitlement than anything else. I don't believe this is intentional, just how it's coming across.
Wasn't the target the 1st quarter before and it moved back to the second quarter? Now the second quarter is almost done. My foundation is the lack of any update or mention of an actual release date. Its just like you said, "The reason why no precise date has been announced is always the same: it is difficult to predict a date in development." Which is basically the short version of what I posted... I get that your a moderator and might know something I don't but without that knowledge or any update announcement your statement stands as the most likely reason to why we have not hear anything. Your reasoning and mine are in perfect agreement, except your saying you think we have not heard anything because they are on track and I am saying I think we haven't heard anything because they can't say we are on track to release this month because they don't know if its possible. Its the difference of an optimist perspective and a pessimists perspective with the same information. I would love for it to drop this month... but if we are two weeks away from the end of the month and they can't give us a release date it, its because they don't know and are not ready now. If they are still working on major functions that would prevent releasing on a scheduled date within two weeks... then they are not likely to finish polishing or minor features which could be patched later even if they resolved the major bugs today. I am just saying if they aren't posting a release date... I would expect the "big delay" announcement soon when months of work are pushing down to a 2 week deadline for releasing by the end of the month.
1. No, the target was never 1st quarter, nor was ever announced as such. 2. No precise dates have ever been announced for any feature. I know your 'foundation' is based off this, so I apologize to unhinge it.
These guys aren't EA, trying to program 'major functions' into the software during late night coding binges. They want to polish their app and aim for the smoothest release possible. Wouldn't it be more logical to offer an announcement of "June," then polish as much as you can as it draws to an end? Does this not allow the development team to reevaluate current status with "2 weeks remaining" and organize which features to touch up or the best use of their time? Maybe they get to a point where any further optimization would take too long, so they release a week early (anyone remember the transition from Beta phase 2 to phase 3?)
It seems that you've fortified your own version of the timeline of events and are making judgments based off such. While it is certainly acceptable to be pessimistic, lets try to be realistic at the same time. The Devs at D&D Beyond do not have a history of delaying releases or backtracking on their announcements. They keep quite a level head and error on the safe side routinely. While yes, we may "know some things you don't," I can definitely state that these guys are of quality and accountability. I would expect the character revamp within the next 2 weeks.
I didn't say precise dates were set, I said the lack of a precise date is because they are not ready. So your supporting my theory by saying basically what I was saying in that they are not ready to release a polished product and so can't give us one. I would never compare them to EA, I would say this is more like Blizzard who will give a relative date or time but always pushes back sometimes for years because the believe in releasing a quality product when its ready. All I am saying is I expect something along those lines. I expect them to delay back a month because they are doing a good job and releasing a polished produce which will be worth the wait. My only is ask is that if I am right they announce it sooner than later because its the lack of an update that causes customer strife. None of my posts have been a criticism of their work but of their communication and a speculation that being this close and not getting an update is common for project running behind that are holding some small hope that they can make their deadline but I would prefer if they are that close that they announce a release next month and take the time to polish it correctly instead of stressing themselves out which could ultimately get in their way and causing it to take longer anyway. It is not a unreasonable train of thought on my part, and your REALLY being aggressively defensive about an opinion as though its an insult an not a FACT that they have not set a precise release date 2 weeks (and closing) from the end of the month by your own statements. Is it possible they could release before the end of the month or even this week... yes.. but its not likely if they can't give us a update statement to confirm that. If they can give us that information and are ready to release but they are not it would be way worse stressing out customer for no reason and I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt that they aren't just being jerks and are instead working hard do the best work that they can on a dead line even they don't know they could meet. All I want is for them to say that publicly. Communication.
So your hard set that I am wrong on my opinion base off my thought process and observations and you are welcome to your opinion based on yours. We will know with in less than two weeks so I don't see too much need argue opinions when we have no new public information to debate it on … which is my point. If I am wrong, feel free to post an "I told you so" on their here with their June release date linked and I will happily post back admitting I was wrong. If they do post a delay to next month or simply say nothing as they are doing right now and it doesn't release until after June 30th.... I will be proven right. … I really hope your right (because I do want the update), I just don't believe it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.
I sit here reading some of these post and I have to wonder at the lack of impatience that most of you have. While I also lack patience, should have considering I'm not exactly young , I don't have any patience for a product that doesn't work, so I would rather they take their time and get it right before they put it out. My 2 cents.
I don't know that its necessarily a lack of patience for the product so much as some word on its release. If they announce, its going to take another 3 months to get it right I am okay with that but the thread has come alive this week because we so close to the end of the month and we have not heard anything. If they announced a release date today, the thread would pretty much die as we sat patiently waiting for that release date. (At least I would)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.
Yes, you want the product to ultimately be usable and as bug-free as possible once it's released, but I think many of the complaints are due to (my opinion) poorly managed expectations being set.
That might have something to do with it and play a part in it, but from the outside looking in, it certainly appears like ken51 has the right of it. Most complaints here appear more due to entitlement than anything else. I don't believe this is intentional, just how it's coming across.
I think dmw71 is right. Its not entitlement the customers are expecting a product to perform a function they paid for and this thread has been mostly quiet with patient with a question asking for an update once in a while because they are willing to wait for the D&D Beyond team to get it right. There is an expectation of a release in less than two weeks and we have not received a release date. So if their is entitlement, its not about receiving a product we all purchased already, it is about receiving word for a release date for an update we all hope will make it the product we thought we were getting when we bought it in the first place. This is not a criticism of D&D Beyond and its team that we need or want this update so badly, its actually really awesome they are listening to customer feed back and growing this product to cover various needs and expectations such a large and varied player base which is no easy task. After all I have bought more than a few table top RPG programs aids over the years that turned out to be unusable, got no support, and made no attempt to adapt into a functional replacement for pen and paper. Even roll20 which is the closes competitor still falls short in a number of ways and in both my D&D games and Shadowrun games we had to share files and custom made documents on google drive to make it work. … As players I know that at least my group is truly excited about the protentional of this product primarily because is who is making it, their responsiveness to customers, as well as the quality level they seem to be aiming for. That's not entitlement, it excitement and buy into what is currently start of something we thing will very good and an eagerness to get our hands on it in its upgraded form.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.
SO much hand wringing and speculation. From what I've seen here, the devs have NEVER given a firm date on anything, unless it was maybe just a couple of days before. "The homebrew subclass update will go live on Thursday" sort of thing. The fact that they haven't given us this time either doesn't tell us anything about the state of this particular project. I'd look more towards the comments that various staff and moderators have made. They are seeing the update - using the new sheet. It's close, and everyone, even BadEye, is still hinting as strongly as they can without coming out and saying so that it will be out before the end of the month. All we can do is wait and see. To my eyes the process has been very transparent, within reason. But obviously others feel differently.
In the latest livestream on Friday, BadEye definitely referenced the Junebug from the previous livestream. I very seriously doubt he would still be so coy about such an obvious clue if it wasn't still the target, especially so close to it no longer being valid.
He's saying it's June. We can consider that announced. He just hasn't outright said it in case something unexpected comes up. They probably have the most difficult parts built, and now just have a data entry schedule to finish up at this point.
I'm not trying to accuse anyone of being entitled or more impatient than anyone else (heck, I want it now too lol), but I think it's silly to keep being a pessimist about it.
June. We'll have in June. If I'm wrong, I'll come on here and apologize. I'll listen to any whole album you pick as punishment. You can do your worst. But I'm 99.999% sure they're not messing with us. June. It will still be June when it comes out.
June. We'll have in June. If I'm wrong, I'll come on here and apologize. I'll listen to any whole album you pick as punishment. You can do your worst. But I'm 99.999% sure they're not messing with us. June. It will still be June when it comes out.
June. We'll have in June. If I'm wrong, I'll come on here and apologize. I'll listen to any whole album you pick as punishment. You can do your worst. But I'm 99.999% sure they're not messing with us. June. It will still be June when it comes out.
June. We'll have in June. If I'm wrong, I'll come on here and apologize. I'll listen to any whole album you pick as punishment. You can do your worst. But I'm 99.999% sure they're not messing with us. June. It will still be June when it comes out.
Lmao, you two made my day. Though I don't think I could wish that on anyone. I might disagree with Sedge (who might actually have access to information I don't) but if I turn out to be right I would not ask Sedge to do that!!! Its just inhumane!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.
Yes, you want the product to ultimately be usable and as bug-free as possible once it's released, but I think many of the complaints are due to (my opinion) poorly managed expectations being set.
That might have something to do with it and play a part in it, but from the outside looking in, it certainly appears like ken51 has the right of it. Most complaints here appear more due to entitlement than anything else. I don't believe this is intentional, just how it's coming across.
Some people see entitled, and on the other side, some of us see patronising.
I mostly play pen and paper, and the current pdf output is so poor to be close to unuseable for new players. The current product does not work for me, and with a regular group we have been waiting for it to be fixed for use.
Therefore the lack of communication or timeline becomes frustrating when the current product does not work for my chosen use.
I’d like to think that this is actually quite reasonable frustration I’m currently feeling, and far from being entitled.
Therefore the lack of communication or timeline becomes frustrating when the current product does not work for my chosen use.
How much of the current product have you bought?
Being in the same boat and having purchased somewhere between $0 and $360.70 of product, I don't see why it matters whether a person buys a single $1.99 feature, a full bundle, or nothing but a subscription for unlimited character slots. In fact, those who spend a grand total of $0 on this product still produce value in usage metrics and propagating its use with others, building up the community as a whole.
Either way, there is frustration about getting an updated character sheet that people can use in a better way than what we currently have available.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
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Based on some of the bits of info dropped and comments about certain homebrew issues from Hartless, my guess is that a lot of future updates are tied to the revamped character sheet.
Things like upgrades to the homebrew system, campaign management, and maybe even the Twitch overlay could all be tied into this.
Badeye has mentioned in the past that they are at a point where they have to release things in super polished form because of the popularity of DDB. Some people are less tolerant of missteps or bugs when it’s a paid app in production rather than beta. Hell, even during the beta some people seemed to be less than understanding.
It has taken a while to get the sheet out and I haven’t seen much about campaign management yet. I have missed the last two dev streams due to life being busy at the moment, but I catch tidbits through the forums. I should go check those out this week.
All this said, I’ve been here since the first few days of the beta and it was one of the best experiences I had as a tester. The team takes feedback, considers it, and makes decisions based on what’s given. I don’t always agree with the decision, like the change to the monster stat blocks, but I know they considered my feedback based on how they’ve responded in the past.
I do wish there was an active list of the current roadmap showing what’s being worked on and what’s on the backburner. I understand why they can’t post something like that - you would have people constantly telling them what their priorities really should be when they don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes. I’ve seen it happen when they release stats and people then lecture them on why they are wrong without the full facts of how the stats are analyzed. Still, something along those lines would be cool.
All this said, I’m excited to see the new sheet and looking forward to the next phases of development. I check the change log a few times each day in the hopes of seeing the character sheet live. I get a little disappointed each time because it’s been so long in the making, but then I remind myself of all the big updates that have been implemented - custom backgrounds, races, and subclasses (which I didn’t expect for a long time).
Those were huge updates that added a lot of increased functionality to the app overall. They also came out in quick succession. I have a feeling those were tied to the backend changes being made to allow the revamp of the character sheet. I believe they have stated this. That helps keep a more level perspective.
til;dr - I understand the anticipation, I feel it too. I understand the disappointment, I feel that too. However, the massive amount of updates, added functionality, and consistent demonstration by the devs that they truly listen to community feedback has me feeling confident that it’s going to be great when it’s launched.
I sit here reading some of these post and I have to wonder at the lack of impatience that most of you have. While I also lack patience, should have considering I'm not exactly young , I don't have any patience for a product that doesn't work, so I would rather they take their time and get it right before they put it out. My 2 cents.
I think the impatience is understandable.
When you see a cool new feature being discussed and demoed for month after month, and each time this new feature is being labeled as being on the "short term" roadmap, or that it's "close," it's natural to get excited. When months pass and there isn't any tangible evidence available that suggests that it actually *is* close, it's natural to grow impatient.
Yes, you want the product to ultimately be usable and as bug-free as possible once it's released, but I think many of the complaints are due to (my opinion) poorly managed expectations being set.
That might have something to do with it and play a part in it, but from the outside looking in, it certainly appears like ken51 has the right of it. Most complaints here appear more due to entitlement than anything else. I don't believe this is intentional, just how it's coming across.
I will admit that I have not read every comment made in the now 7 page discussion, so that is admittedly possible and just not something I caught.
That said, it's still easy to understand why users might be growing frustrated with what are perceived to be (excessive) delays.
The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.
I don't know that its necessarily a lack of patience for the product so much as some word on its release. If they announce, its going to take another 3 months to get it right I am okay with that but the thread has come alive this week because we so close to the end of the month and we have not heard anything. If they announced a release date today, the thread would pretty much die as we sat patiently waiting for that release date. (At least I would)
The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.
I think dmw71 is right. Its not entitlement the customers are expecting a product to perform a function they paid for and this thread has been mostly quiet with patient with a question asking for an update once in a while because they are willing to wait for the D&D Beyond team to get it right. There is an expectation of a release in less than two weeks and we have not received a release date. So if their is entitlement, its not about receiving a product we all purchased already, it is about receiving word for a release date for an update we all hope will make it the product we thought we were getting when we bought it in the first place. This is not a criticism of D&D Beyond and its team that we need or want this update so badly, its actually really awesome they are listening to customer feed back and growing this product to cover various needs and expectations such a large and varied player base which is no easy task. After all I have bought more than a few table top RPG programs aids over the years that turned out to be unusable, got no support, and made no attempt to adapt into a functional replacement for pen and paper. Even roll20 which is the closes competitor still falls short in a number of ways and in both my D&D games and Shadowrun games we had to share files and custom made documents on google drive to make it work. … As players I know that at least my group is truly excited about the protentional of this product primarily because is who is making it, their responsiveness to customers, as well as the quality level they seem to be aiming for. That's not entitlement, it excitement and buy into what is currently start of something we thing will very good and an eagerness to get our hands on it in its upgraded form.
The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.
SO much hand wringing and speculation. From what I've seen here, the devs have NEVER given a firm date on anything, unless it was maybe just a couple of days before. "The homebrew subclass update will go live on Thursday" sort of thing. The fact that they haven't given us this time either doesn't tell us anything about the state of this particular project. I'd look more towards the comments that various staff and moderators have made. They are seeing the update - using the new sheet. It's close, and everyone, even BadEye, is still hinting as strongly as they can without coming out and saying so that it will be out before the end of the month. All we can do is wait and see. To my eyes the process has been very transparent, within reason. But obviously others feel differently.
And even then, it's usually released a few hours early.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
― Oscar Wilde.
In the latest livestream on Friday, BadEye definitely referenced the Junebug from the previous livestream. I very seriously doubt he would still be so coy about such an obvious clue if it wasn't still the target, especially so close to it no longer being valid.
He's saying it's June. We can consider that announced. He just hasn't outright said it in case something unexpected comes up. They probably have the most difficult parts built, and now just have a data entry schedule to finish up at this point.
I'm not trying to accuse anyone of being entitled or more impatient than anyone else (heck, I want it now too lol), but I think it's silly to keep being a pessimist about it.
June. We'll have in June. If I'm wrong, I'll come on here and apologize. I'll listen to any whole album you pick as punishment. You can do your worst. But I'm 99.999% sure they're not messing with us. June. It will still be June when it comes out.
Challenge accepted!
Playing with Fire by Kevin Federline
11 days and counting...
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
― Oscar Wilde.
Deal.
Team, I'm counting on you.
Lmao, you two made my day. Though I don't think I could wish that on anyone. I might disagree with Sedge (who might actually have access to information I don't) but if I turn out to be right I would not ask Sedge to do that!!! Its just inhumane!
The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.
Ok my next completely baseless speculation is that it will be out before a Thursday cuz Crit Roll...
Some people see entitled, and on the other side, some of us see patronising.
I mostly play pen and paper, and the current pdf output is so poor to be close to unuseable for new players. The current product does not work for me, and with a regular group we have been waiting for it to be fixed for use.
Therefore the lack of communication or timeline becomes frustrating when the current product does not work for my chosen use.
I’d like to think that this is actually quite reasonable frustration I’m currently feeling, and far from being entitled.
The timeline has been communicated. It's June.
How much of the current product have you bought?
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
― Oscar Wilde.
Being in the same boat and having purchased somewhere between $0 and $360.70 of product, I don't see why it matters whether a person buys a single $1.99 feature, a full bundle, or nothing but a subscription for unlimited character slots. In fact, those who spend a grand total of $0 on this product still produce value in usage metrics and propagating its use with others, building up the community as a whole.
Either way, there is frustration about getting an updated character sheet that people can use in a better way than what we currently have available.