Artificers honestly seem more like an NPC class out of 3rd Edition. Most of my experience has shown them to be more of a liability and a handicap to the party.
Artificers honestly seem more like an NPC class out of 3rd Edition. Most of my experience has shown them to be more of a liability and a handicap to the party.
A crafting class without a crafting system is bunk. I'm running a Battle Mage and while the stock stuff isn't bad, any time I want to make something new the DM has to homebrew it
Warlocks are a not a good addition to DnD. They are there only to create drama, with the "will they won't they" turn evil at some point. In a never ending quest to validate a dumb as rocks alignment system that hasn't been relevant since Adv DND. Stop trying to play like a Dbag because your half demon mom makes you Chaotic evil every time you see the sun. Just cast sleep and give me back my session.
None of this has anything to do with the warlock class though.
Warlocks are a not a good addition to DnD. They are there only to create drama, with the "will they won't they" turn evil at some point. In a never ending quest to validate a dumb as rocks alignment system that hasn't been relevant since Adv DND. Stop trying to play like a Dbag because your half demon mom makes you Chaotic evil every time you see the sun. Just cast sleep and give me back my session.
None of this has anything to do with the warlock class though.
I think they were talking about Patrons and how they seem to lean toward evil. Truth be told though any player can run their character like a jerk. That has nothing to do with the character.
I always felt Warlocks could play well as hunters of the undead, fiends, or other supernatural entities (aberrations), in a sort of Ranger + Paladin but with Arcane Casting. I dunno, there feels like more ways to play a Warlock than just a tragic goth or whatnot.
I always felt Warlocks could play well as hunters of the undead, fiends, or other supernatural entities (aberrations), in a sort of Ranger + Paladin but with Arcane Casting. I dunno, there feels like more ways to play a Warlock than just a tragic goth or whatnot.
I just like the idea of playing a Genie warlock as some ordinary person who just wants to be rich, and being the warlock of an otherworldly being that basically embodies opulence is a fast track to that.
I kinda hope in the new D&D in 2024, and assuming warlocks are anything similar to how they are now, Genie is an option for a warlock patron right from the get-go.
Thematically, probably the Artificer. Largely for basically what everyone else said. I don't hate them, I just sometimes feel they don't really fit.
I tend to fid the Warlock irksome. They should be treated kinds like a blatant necromancer by most of society, but because they are a WotC class creation, they kinda get a pass. Probably not explaining that well, but I just kind of find it a little annoying.
System-wise, probably Cleric. While it has plenty of options, at level 1, 99% of those options tend to be nearly mutually exclusive with future play, and tend to get very little, if anything with each new book. When I sit down to build a Cleric, more frequently than with other classes, I just can't actually get the class to accomplish what I want it to for a concept, which sucks, because I perfer Divine Classes.
If I had to pick a class to be removed from the game, Warlock.
If I had to pick a class to get a full on update/rewrite, Cleric. Too few options outside of level 1 picks, and too many Domain options don't really mesh well with themselves. A mace-smack cantrip that healed an ally for 1 or 2 HP would also kind of be cool.
The only Warlock subclass I really want to play, is the Archfey one. Like the Genie and Celestial ones they don't seem evil to me. (maybe mischievous, but I just generally like Fey and the Feywilds)
My only real dislike of the class is that you only get the highest level spell slots instead of lower level ones too. Sure it's cool that your spells always get casted at full power (I guess, I don't really upcast spells on my Lvl 7 Druid), but several spells I'm interested in for when I want to play the Warlock I've been thinking up can't be upcasted. Like for example several spells from the Archfey Expanded Spell List.
So for example you're a Lvl 5 Warlock, you only have two 3rd Level spell slots and want to cast Fairie Fire to give yourself and your party advantage. Which means you'd cast Fairie Fire with a 3rd level spell slot, even tho it does not gain any upgrade for being cast at a higher level. (；⌒;)
ARTIFICER IS NOT THE ONLY OCCUPANT OF LEAST FAVORITE CLASS!!!
(I know it may only be for a second, but for the first time in ages on this thread, artificer and monk are tied for last with 63 votes each, as opposed to being the only least liked class, at least they now have a temporary companion.)
Monk on top now, with Artificer close behind. Bard and Barbarian trailing a ways behind them.
What's really interesting is that by and large these are the same classes that you'd find grognardy types railing against in older editions too, largely because of their thematic distance from so-called traditional (western sword and sorcery) fantasy archetypes.
I don't have a least favorite class in theory, but I definitely have had the least fun playing monks. Though I'm pretty sure it was due to others at the table kindly informing me on how I was "playing monk wrong" It's fine. I'll just retreat back to my comfort zone with my d10 cantrip..
Least favorite class to play as: Cleric. I build an ultra strong defender of the faith, who wants to smite his foes with the burning fury of his goddess, but am stuck playing healer for a bunch of murder hobos 95% of the time. When I use a turn to do anything OTHER than heal, I am criticized for wasting slots on things not helpful to the group. I'm sorry, my Flame Strike was very helpful, it killed half the bandits in the clearing, and only slightly singed the rogue and fighter. The barbarian made his death save, and the rogue should have used evasion.
To be somewhat fair, that really is a comment more on the players, but I feel you. On the average I'm not really impressed with the spells and power thereof available to the 5e Cleric, so that doesn't help. And what's worse is the knowledge that, rather than buff the Cleric's spells or provide greater diversity, they'll simply nerf the Arcane casters even more than 5e already has.
Least favorite class to play as: Cleric. I build an ultra strong defender of the faith, who wants to smite his foes with the burning fury of his goddess, but am stuck playing healer for a bunch of murder hobos 95% of the time. When I use a turn to do anything OTHER than heal, I am criticized for wasting slots on things not helpful to the group. I'm sorry, my Flame Strike was very helpful, it killed half the bandits in the clearing, and only slightly singed the rogue and fighter. The barbarian made his death save, and the rogue should have used evasion.
There's so much here. Let me tackle it quickly in the hopes of other people not fully derailing for six pages.
1) "That's a player problem, not a class problem." Sure. Not an uncommon one though. And regardless, it's a valid complaint, and OP never really specified anything that would invalidate it as a response to this thread.
2) Death saves isn't "slightly singed!" Also, Flame Strike on bandits? Seems excessive. Why not use Spirit Guardians, which doesn't have friendly fire and would kill bandits just as easily? Well, possibly because Flame Strike is cool and when you get it, you want to use it. Takes a while to get it. And the party members should have been fine, numerically.
3) Rogues don't use Evasion. It's automatic. Probably just forgot.
Anyway, the "mandatory healer" thing is still pervasive, even though it's not true. I hope the upcoming revisions address it in a major way. It hasn't affected me in a long time but it's definitely still a problem for lots of folks.
I love Warlocks. Their Pact Magic makes me happy because it’s so unique compared to regular spellcasting.
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Artificers honestly seem more like an NPC class out of 3rd Edition. Most of my experience has shown them to be more of a liability and a handicap to the party.
A crafting class without a crafting system is bunk. I'm running a Battle Mage and while the stock stuff isn't bad, any time I want to make something new the DM has to homebrew it
None of this has anything to do with the warlock class though.
I think they were talking about Patrons and how they seem to lean toward evil. Truth be told though any player can run their character like a jerk. That has nothing to do with the character.
I always felt Warlocks could play well as hunters of the undead, fiends, or other supernatural entities (aberrations), in a sort of Ranger + Paladin but with Arcane Casting. I dunno, there feels like more ways to play a Warlock than just a tragic goth or whatnot.
I just like the idea of playing a Genie warlock as some ordinary person who just wants to be rich, and being the warlock of an otherworldly being that basically embodies opulence is a fast track to that.
I kinda hope in the new D&D in 2024, and assuming warlocks are anything similar to how they are now, Genie is an option for a warlock patron right from the get-go.
Hard to say. I don't really hate any class
Thematically, probably the Artificer. Largely for basically what everyone else said. I don't hate them, I just sometimes feel they don't really fit.
I tend to fid the Warlock irksome. They should be treated kinds like a blatant necromancer by most of society, but because they are a WotC class creation, they kinda get a pass. Probably not explaining that well, but I just kind of find it a little annoying.
System-wise, probably Cleric. While it has plenty of options, at level 1, 99% of those options tend to be nearly mutually exclusive with future play, and tend to get very little, if anything with each new book. When I sit down to build a Cleric, more frequently than with other classes, I just can't actually get the class to accomplish what I want it to for a concept, which sucks, because I perfer Divine Classes.
If I had to pick a class to be removed from the game, Warlock.
If I had to pick a class to get a full on update/rewrite, Cleric. Too few options outside of level 1 picks, and too many Domain options don't really mesh well with themselves. A mace-smack cantrip that healed an ally for 1 or 2 HP would also kind of be cool.
What class don't I like depends who is playing it and how they play it.
The only Warlock subclass I really want to play, is the Archfey one. Like the Genie and Celestial ones they don't seem evil to me. (maybe mischievous, but I just generally like Fey and the Feywilds)
My only real dislike of the class is that you only get the highest level spell slots instead of lower level ones too. Sure it's cool that your spells always get casted at full power (I guess, I don't really upcast spells on my Lvl 7 Druid), but several spells I'm interested in for when I want to play the Warlock I've been thinking up can't be upcasted. Like for example several spells from the Archfey Expanded Spell List.
Archfey Expanded Spells
1st
faerie fire, sleep
2nd
calm emotions, phantasmal force
3rd
blink, plant growth
4th
dominate beast, greater invisibility
5th
dominate person, seeming
So for example you're a Lvl 5 Warlock, you only have two 3rd Level spell slots and want to cast Fairie Fire to give yourself and your party advantage. Which means you'd cast Fairie Fire with a 3rd level spell slot, even tho it does not gain any upgrade for being cast at a higher level. (；⌒;)
I picked Bard because hate the "Horny Bard" stereotype.
ARTIFICER IS NOT THE ONLY OCCUPANT OF LEAST FAVORITE CLASS!!!
(I know it may only be for a second, but for the first time in ages on this thread, artificer and monk are tied for last with 63 votes each, as opposed to being the only least liked class, at least they now have a temporary companion.)
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
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HERE.That’s the fault of the player, not the class. Every character I play, regardless of class, is horny,
Monk on top now, with Artificer close behind. Bard and Barbarian trailing a ways behind them.
What's really interesting is that by and large these are the same classes that you'd find grognardy types railing against in older editions too, largely because of their thematic distance from so-called traditional (western sword and sorcery) fantasy archetypes.
I don't have a least favorite class in theory, but I definitely have had the least fun playing monks. Though I'm pretty sure it was due to others at the table kindly informing me on how I was "playing monk wrong" It's fine. I'll just retreat back to my comfort zone with my d10 cantrip..
Unexpected and well done.
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Least favorite class to play as: Cleric. I build an ultra strong defender of the faith, who wants to smite his foes with the burning fury of his goddess, but am stuck playing healer for a bunch of murder hobos 95% of the time. When I use a turn to do anything OTHER than heal, I am criticized for wasting slots on things not helpful to the group. I'm sorry, my Flame Strike was very helpful, it killed half the bandits in the clearing, and only slightly singed the rogue and fighter. The barbarian made his death save, and the rogue should have used evasion.
To be somewhat fair, that really is a comment more on the players, but I feel you. On the average I'm not really impressed with the spells and power thereof available to the 5e Cleric, so that doesn't help. And what's worse is the knowledge that, rather than buff the Cleric's spells or provide greater diversity, they'll simply nerf the Arcane casters even more than 5e already has.
There's so much here. Let me tackle it quickly in the hopes of other people not fully derailing for six pages.
1) "That's a player problem, not a class problem." Sure. Not an uncommon one though. And regardless, it's a valid complaint, and OP never really specified anything that would invalidate it as a response to this thread.
2) Death saves isn't "slightly singed!" Also, Flame Strike on bandits? Seems excessive. Why not use Spirit Guardians, which doesn't have friendly fire and would kill bandits just as easily? Well, possibly because Flame Strike is cool and when you get it, you want to use it. Takes a while to get it. And the party members should have been fine, numerically.
3) Rogues don't use Evasion. It's automatic. Probably just forgot.
Anyway, the "mandatory healer" thing is still pervasive, even though it's not true. I hope the upcoming revisions address it in a major way. It hasn't affected me in a long time but it's definitely still a problem for lots of folks.