So my wife's sorcerer leveled up to 4th level. She has asked me if she can choose extra 1st level spells instead of 2nd level. This thought has never even crossed my mind. I don't know of any written rule that says you can or can not. (in that language) There is only the chart.
Now, according to the chart she has 4 1st lvl and 3 2nd lvl spells with a total of 5/7. So, without any exact rules on this I am confused (and perplexed) as to what to tell her.
Is there any rule anywhere that can describe why she can or can not do this other than the chart?
So the chart is just the number of spell slots (her resource) she has to cast her spells with. The Spells Known column tells you how many leveled (non-cantrip) spells she knows. So long as she has the spell slots from her class to use them, she can learn any sorcerer spell of any level she wants.
She can learn more 1st level spells, that's totally allowed: "For instance, when you reach 3rd level in this class, you can learn one new spell of 1st or 2nd level." (Under Spells Known of 1st Level and Higher). The table just shows what spell slots you have, and how many total spells you know. So she can pick a 1st level spell as her new spell for the level, and she can simply use a 2nd level spell slot to cast it. This may come with added effects, or not, depending on the spell. She could just cast magic missile with all 7 of her spell slots, and not do anything with her other spells that she's picked. That's perfectly valid.
My brain sorta broke. You know, I can't think anything but why not? I suppose it all boils down to just how one conceptualizes just what spell slots really mean?
If you multiclass as a half-caster and a full caster (like bard and artificer) you can actually end up with spell slots that are higher level than any of the spells you can learn or prepare.
If you multiclass as a half-caster and a full caster (like bard and artificer) you can actually end up with spell slots that are higher level than any of the spells you can learn or prepare.
You can end up that way with any multi-class combo, since the highest level of spell you can learn in any class is limited by your level in that class, not your overall level. A 1st level wizard/19th level cleric can only cast 1st level wizard spells.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
If you multiclass as a half-caster and a full caster (like bard and artificer) you can actually end up with spell slots that are higher level than any of the spells you can learn or prepare.
You can end up that way with any multi-class combo, since the highest level of spell you can learn in any class is limited by your level in that class, not your overall level. A 1st level wizard/19th level cleric can only cast 1st level wizard spells.
Ah, while that is true, I actually meant across both classes. You count half your levels in half-caster classes (Ranger, Paladin, Artificer) for determining spell slots when multiclassing, so if you're level 5 bard and level 15 artificer, you'll have a 7th level spell slot but only have access to 4th level spells. I guess I coulda been clearer about that, sorry.
Again, that can still happen with any two casting classes: a 4th level cleric/4th level wizard will have 4th level slots but can only cast 2nd level spells.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Again, that can still happen with any two casting classes: a 4th level cleric/4th level wizard will have 4th level slots but can only cast 2nd level spells.
...Well now I just feel foolish for not thinking the obvious, as I deserve to.
Don't forget there is also the optional rules presented in the DMG for spell points. I believe there's a document online that somewhat refines this, but I also seem to remember Warlock having some kind of issue. I'm going to see if I can find the doc.
Don't forget there is also the optional rules presented in the DMG for spell points. I believe there's a document online that somewhat refines this, but I also seem to remember Warlock having some kind of issue. I'm going to see if I can find the doc.
That might have been it. We were playing in Foundry VTT with the D&D 5e module and I don't think the system was equipped for it / doing both spell points & slots.
This is the topic closest to what i want to ask. Do you have to pick a new spell known when you level up sorc or can you save it till you reach a new spell level? For example: can a sorc not pick their 3rd known spell at level 2, waiting until they level to level 3 so they can have 2 2nd level spells in their spells known. Kinda the other direction from the OP's question but still related.
No, they can’t not pick a spell, but if you use the optional rules in Tasha’s you can swap a spell @ ASI levels, so @ 4th you could swap it for a 2nd-level spell.
No, they can’t not pick a spell, but if you use the optional rules in Tasha’s you can swap a spell @ ASI levels, so @ 4th you could swap it for a 2nd-level spell.
Nope, Tasha deals with cantrips.
For other spells, this is dealt with in the PHB:
Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the sorcerer spells you know and replace it with another spell from the sorcerer spell list, which also must be of a level for which you have spell slots.
Don't forget there is also the optional rules presented in the DMG for spell points. I believe there's a document online that somewhat refines this, but I also seem to remember Warlock having some kind of issue. I'm going to see if I can find the doc.
So my wife's sorcerer leveled up to 4th level. She has asked me if she can choose extra 1st level spells instead of 2nd level. This thought has never even crossed my mind. I don't know of any written rule that says you can or can not. (in that language) There is only the chart.
Now, according to the chart she has 4 1st lvl and 3 2nd lvl spells with a total of 5/7. So, without any exact rules on this I am confused (and perplexed) as to what to tell her.
Is there any rule anywhere that can describe why she can or can not do this other than the chart?
Thanks
So the chart is just the number of spell slots (her resource) she has to cast her spells with. The Spells Known column tells you how many leveled (non-cantrip) spells she knows. So long as she has the spell slots from her class to use them, she can learn any sorcerer spell of any level she wants.
You can choose any of the spells you'd have access to at your level so if she wants more low level spells that's fine.
She can learn more 1st level spells, that's totally allowed: "For instance, when you reach 3rd level in this class, you can learn one new spell of 1st or 2nd level." (Under Spells Known of 1st Level and Higher). The table just shows what spell slots you have, and how many total spells you know. So she can pick a 1st level spell as her new spell for the level, and she can simply use a 2nd level spell slot to cast it. This may come with added effects, or not, depending on the spell. She could just cast magic missile with all 7 of her spell slots, and not do anything with her other spells that she's picked. That's perfectly valid.
Birgit | Shifter | Sorcerer | Dragonlords
Shayone | Hobgoblin | Sorcerer | Netherdeep
My brain sorta broke. You know, I can't think anything but why not? I suppose it all boils down to just how one conceptualizes just what spell slots really mean?
You are confusing spells known with spell slots, they are a completely separate thing.
oooh, why didn't i see those posts? glitch***
If you multiclass as a half-caster and a full caster (like bard and artificer) you can actually end up with spell slots that are higher level than any of the spells you can learn or prepare.
You can end up that way with any multi-class combo, since the highest level of spell you can learn in any class is limited by your level in that class, not your overall level. A 1st level wizard/19th level cleric can only cast 1st level wizard spells.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Ah, while that is true, I actually meant across both classes. You count half your levels in half-caster classes (Ranger, Paladin, Artificer) for determining spell slots when multiclassing, so if you're level 5 bard and level 15 artificer, you'll have a 7th level spell slot but only have access to 4th level spells. I guess I coulda been clearer about that, sorry.
Again, that can still happen with any two casting classes: a 4th level cleric/4th level wizard will have 4th level slots but can only cast 2nd level spells.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
...Well now I just feel foolish for not thinking the obvious, as I deserve to.
Happens to everyone.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Don't forget there is also the optional rules presented in the DMG for spell points. I believe there's a document online that somewhat refines this, but I also seem to remember Warlock having some kind of issue. I'm going to see if I can find the doc.
Edit: Here's the link, someone else passed it on to me a while ago. https://dnd-5e.herokuapp.com/optionalrule/spell-points
Warlocks cannot use Spell Points as they have the Pact Magic feature and not the Spellcasting feature.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
That might have been it. We were playing in Foundry VTT with the D&D 5e module and I don't think the system was equipped for it / doing both spell points & slots.
This is the topic closest to what i want to ask. Do you have to pick a new spell known when you level up sorc or can you save it till you reach a new spell level? For example: can a sorc not pick their 3rd known spell at level 2, waiting until they level to level 3 so they can have 2 2nd level spells in their spells known. Kinda the other direction from the OP's question but still related.
No, they can’t not pick a spell, but if you use the optional rules in Tasha’s you can swap a spell @ ASI levels, so @ 4th you could swap it for a 2nd-level spell.I was confuzzled, ignore me.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Nope, Tasha deals with cantrips.
For other spells, this is dealt with in the PHB:
Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the sorcerer spells you know and replace it with another spell from the sorcerer spell list, which also must be of a level for which you have spell slots.
Every single rule in D&D is optional. On that note, if it makes sense to you OP, run with it. If it doesn't, don't. Just keep it consistent.
All things Lich - DM tips, tricks, and other creative shenanigans