I’ve seen a lot of people on here saying they’ve cancelled their subscription and will NEVER give another dime to WotC. I want to tell you a true story…
Years ago, James Gunn wrote some pretty despicable things on Twitter. Ten years later, after he’d made two great movies for the MCU, his past Twitter history returned to haunt him. Even though he’d long before apologized for his terrible “comedy,” saying that wasn’t the man he wanted to be, his words still cost him his job with the MCU. A lot of people cried foul at this, complaining that Disney had pulled the trigger too quickly, complaining that what Disney had done in firing Gunn went against the very thing we as people need: grace and the ability to grow past our mistakes (as Gunn had done years before). Fortunately, Disney eventually reversed its decision, and we will soon have Guardians of the Galaxy 3, but it seemed pretty unfortunate for a moment.
As of 1/13/2023, WotC has walked back their OGL direction in their article on DnDBeyond, An Update on the Open Game License (OGL). I put it to those who have said they’ll never forgive WotC for their misstep with their proposed OGL 1.1 that you’re doing the same thing to WotC that Disney did to Gunn. You’ve won, folks. Canceling your subscriptions had the desired effect.
Take the win.
I encourage you not to join the mob mentality and go further than necessary. All you’re going to do, in the long run, is hurt the TTRPG community. D&D is still a highly recognizable brand with an ever-improving reputation among the general public (who have no idea or care about the OGL). Don’t tarnish the brand with your own actions (if WotC tanks their brand on their own, that’s not on you, but on them alone). We all need the game to thrive if we want TTRPGs – in all their forms – to succeed as well.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
C. Foster Payne
"If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence, try orderin' somebody else's dog around."
I’ve seen a lot of people on here saying they’ve cancelled their subscription and will NEVER give another dime to WotC. I want to tell you a true story…
Years ago, James Gunn wrote some pretty despicable things on Twitter. Ten years later, after he’d made two great movies for the MCU, his past Twitter history returned to haunt him. Even though he’d long before apologized for his terrible “comedy,” saying that wasn’t the man he wanted to be, his words still cost him his job with the MCU. A lot of people cried foul at this, complaining that Disney had pulled the trigger too quickly, complaining that what Disney had done in firing Gunn went against the very thing we as people need: grace and the ability to grow past our mistakes (as Gunn had done years before). Fortunately, Disney eventually reversed its decision, and we will soon have Guardians of the Galaxy 3, but it seemed pretty unfortunate for a moment.
As of 1/13/2023, WotC has walked back their OGL direction in their article on DnDBeyond, An Update on the Open Game License (OGL). I put it to those who have said they’ll never forgive WotC for their misstep with their proposed OGL 1.1 that you’re doing the same thing to WotC that Disney did to Gunn. You’ve won, folks. Canceling your subscriptions had the desired effect.
Take the win.
I encourage you not to join the mob mentality and go further than necessary. All you’re going to do, in the long run, is hurt the TTRPG community. D&D is still a highly recognizable brand with an ever-improving reputation among the general public (who have no idea or care about the OGL). Don’t tarnish the brand with your own actions (if WotC tanks their brand on their own, that’s not on you, but on them alone). We all need the game to thrive if we want TTRPGs – in all their forms – to succeed as well.
It is not an unreasonable attitude to not immediately accept that they have learned their lesson. While I'm not one who said "Never again WotC", I will not return to the fold before I am sure they mean what they said last night and I encourage others to withhold their subs until WotC proves they really mean it this time.
This OSD 2.0 MUST be irrevocable, not include provisions where they have an arbitrary power to withdraw the OGL over some nebulous and subjective definition of "offensive", it must be perpetual, and it must not demand payments or claim ownership of third party materials. Ideally, the license should be held by a third party with no dog in the RPG hunt. Basically they should join the ORC license.
I will return.. but only after they make it clear that they understand they will listen to and accept reasonable demands from the people who provide their income.
Oh, and they should fire Lorraine, err, Cynthia Williams. That particular last name is apparently not compatible with a leadership role in successful D&D.
Until the four corner rule is complete and a physical copy has been signed and posted all the statements from Wotc and Hasbro don't mean anything. They can say anything they want and continue to push forwards with 1.1 the communities ire is not at the little guys working at DnDB its at the corporate fat cats. They only speak in gold, so until they see a dip and take us seriously we should not stop. The worst thing for the movement is to get complacent and take the "win" they "gave" us. The squeaky wheel get the grease and we need to continue to roar. If they dont care or wont change ORC is being released and will see a shift from our exodus. I love dnd and the fun brought me but this is a classic example of greed. Unfortunately, my hope for One DnD is not good. I foresee the next step in the future will be microtransactions taking over the game once VTTRPG goes online. The CEO is from microsoft and is treating the brand like a video game. #opendnd #dndbegone
This OSD 2.0 MUST be irrevocable, not include provisions where they have an arbitrary power to withdraw the OGL over some nebulous and subjective definition of "offensive", it must be perpetual, and it must not demand payments or claim ownership of third party materials. Ideally, the license should be held by a third party with no dog in the RPG hunt. Basically they should join the ORC license.
I will return.. but only after they make it clear that they understand they will listen to and accept reasonable demands from the people who provide their income.
If the ORC license ends up being as open as its creators claim it will, they won't be able to stop WotC from publishing content under it if there is a benefit to them doing so. Ergo they have absolutely nothing to lose by also having their own license that is more restrictive.
I think OP may be misunderstanding but Wizards could (theoretically) join in creating a foundtion similar to the Linux Foundation or Free Software Foundation as a custodian of the ORC. The chances of that are less than 1 but I bet nobody thought Microsoft would join the Linux Foundation or that they would create the .NET Foundation so who knows. I do acknowledge there is a significant difference between software and RPGs (obviously).
Have we seen a new version to see what is actually changing?
Nope. Which is why there are a growing number of folks not posting a lot any more. A decent number of folks (present company included) are watching, waiting and tapping a toe to see what the revision looks like before offering any further threats and actions. If they screw it up again (which is possible, bust SEEMS unlikely) I expect things to explode again from all sides. If they get it right, the naysayers will quiet down and things will proceed. I expect, however, Wizards will find themselves under tight scrutiny by the community for some time now.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
I think OP may be misunderstanding but Wizards could (theoretically) join in creating a foundtion similar to the Linux Foundation or Free Software Foundation as a custodian of the ORC. The chances of that are less than 1 but I bet nobody thought Microsoft would join the Linux Foundation or that they would create the .NET Foundation so who knows. I do acknowledge there is a significant difference between software and RPGs (obviously).
I doubt anyone would actually want WotC involved with crafting the ORC license, even if WotC wanted to.
They could donate to whatever foundation Kobold et al. end up founding.
I think it's interesting how the leaked OGL wasn't even official, yet I see folks demanding that they won't stop bagging on WotC until a new OGL that meets all their demands IS official. I thought this thread was titled: Boycotting WotC - Not renewing next year unless OGL Changes. Anyone Else? I guess it should have been titled: I want to keep hating on WotC for as long as possible.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
C. Foster Payne
"If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence, try orderin' somebody else's dog around."
I think it's interesting how the leaked OGL wasn't even official, yet I see folks demanding that they won't stop bagging on WotC until a new OGL that meets all their demands IS official. I thought this thread was titled: Boycotting WotC - Not renewing next year unless OGL Changes. Anyone Else? I guess it should have been titled: I want to keep hating on WotC for as long as possible.
It was official.
You're confusing 'leaked' with 'public' and 'official' with 'in force' - They didn't make it public, but it was absolutely official and sent to content creators with a deadline to sign and agree to, in secret.
I have cancelled my subscription - even though I DM a campaign and play in another. I have bought all D&D content on D&D Beyond and had a Master Tier subscription.
I don’t want to stop playing D&D - I love this game. But I need to send a message that is heard.
After watching the Legal Eagle video on this topic, as well as checking out the show notes for the Opening Arguments podcast on this topic, I'm a lot less concerned than I was. There are still SOME concerns, and hopefully Wizards will correct those.
No worries, it is an emotional subject and there is a lot of info flying around. I have a feeling that this whole thing was deliberately done by WoTC to gauge the community's reaction and wanted to make sure that we weren't being manipulated. The poll is a good one.
I personally have no doubts in my opinion that the corporate shills at WotC and Hasbro did try to pull a fast one by sending out the horrible OGL 1.1 to creators complete with executable documents and a swift deadline, all hoping that no one would notice. To claim that they always meant to get community feedback is an obvious lie. They really do think we're stupid though and are sticking with that opinion since while they said nice words, they made no lasting guarantees and will likely try this again once again hoping that people won't notice. I fear anyone who thinks WotC actually learned any sort of lesson and intends to become an honest caretaker of D&D is going to be sorely disappointed in the end.
There are interesting updated articles on this. One on Gizmodo specifies the cancellation of dndbeyond accounts as a main driver of WotC's backtracking (https://gizmodo.com/dungeons-dragons-wizards-hasbro-ogl-open-game-license-1849981136) because it did indeed provide an immediate and provable effect on their bottom line. Corporate America doesn't give a damn about their consumers, just their bottom line. There's also a quite long article on CNBC (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/13/hasbro-delays-new-dungeons-dragons-licensing-rules.html) that mentions some higher profile third-party content creators were approached late last year with a "sweetheart deal" trying to get them to sign before any announcements were made that once against blows the claim of intending to get community feedback out of the water.
In short, they lied, they lost, and they've learned nothing.
I think it's interesting how the leaked OGL wasn't even official, yet I see folks demanding that they won't stop bagging on WotC until a new OGL that meets all their demands IS official. I thought this thread was titled: Boycotting WotC - Not renewing next year unless OGL Changes. Anyone Else? I guess it should have been titled: I want to keep hating on WotC for as long as possible.
Read the articles. This wasn't a "preview" - this was sent WITH A CONTRACT ATTACHED to people with 9 days to sign.
You're ignoring the facts.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Come watch us save the multiverse in "The Lost Dragons of Phandelver" - a homebrew based on Lost Mines of Phandelver, Dragon of Icespire Peak, and They Tyranny of Dragons. https://www.twitch.tv/kdinla The Gatewalker Saga - Dragons Beware
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They have already stated they will no longer be seeking royalties.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1423-an-update-on-the-open-game-license-ogl
I’ve seen a lot of people on here saying they’ve cancelled their subscription and will NEVER give another dime to WotC. I want to tell you a true story…
Years ago, James Gunn wrote some pretty despicable things on Twitter. Ten years later, after he’d made two great movies for the MCU, his past Twitter history returned to haunt him. Even though he’d long before apologized for his terrible “comedy,” saying that wasn’t the man he wanted to be, his words still cost him his job with the MCU. A lot of people cried foul at this, complaining that Disney had pulled the trigger too quickly, complaining that what Disney had done in firing Gunn went against the very thing we as people need: grace and the ability to grow past our mistakes (as Gunn had done years before). Fortunately, Disney eventually reversed its decision, and we will soon have Guardians of the Galaxy 3, but it seemed pretty unfortunate for a moment.
As of 1/13/2023, WotC has walked back their OGL direction in their article on DnDBeyond, An Update on the Open Game License (OGL). I put it to those who have said they’ll never forgive WotC for their misstep with their proposed OGL 1.1 that you’re doing the same thing to WotC that Disney did to Gunn. You’ve won, folks. Canceling your subscriptions had the desired effect.
Take the win.
I encourage you not to join the mob mentality and go further than necessary. All you’re going to do, in the long run, is hurt the TTRPG community. D&D is still a highly recognizable brand with an ever-improving reputation among the general public (who have no idea or care about the OGL). Don’t tarnish the brand with your own actions (if WotC tanks their brand on their own, that’s not on you, but on them alone). We all need the game to thrive if we want TTRPGs – in all their forms – to succeed as well.
C. Foster Payne
"If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence, try orderin' somebody else's dog around."
It is not an unreasonable attitude to not immediately accept that they have learned their lesson. While I'm not one who said "Never again WotC", I will not return to the fold before I am sure they mean what they said last night and I encourage others to withhold their subs until WotC proves they really mean it this time.
This OSD 2.0 MUST be irrevocable, not include provisions where they have an arbitrary power to withdraw the OGL over some nebulous and subjective definition of "offensive", it must be perpetual, and it must not demand payments or claim ownership of third party materials. Ideally, the license should be held by a third party with no dog in the RPG hunt. Basically they should join the ORC license.
I will return.. but only after they make it clear that they understand they will listen to and accept reasonable demands from the people who provide their income.
Oh, and they should fire
Lorraine, err, Cynthia Williams. That particular last name is apparently not compatible with a leadership role in successful D&D.If you are saying we need D&D to have TTRPGs to thrive, you are wrong. There will always be TTRPGs with or without D&D.
Until the four corner rule is complete and a physical copy has been signed and posted all the statements from Wotc and Hasbro don't mean anything. They can say anything they want and continue to push forwards with 1.1 the communities ire is not at the little guys working at DnDB its at the corporate fat cats. They only speak in gold, so until they see a dip and take us seriously we should not stop. The worst thing for the movement is to get complacent and take the "win" they "gave" us. The squeaky wheel get the grease and we need to continue to roar. If they dont care or wont change ORC is being released and will see a shift from our exodus. I love dnd and the fun brought me but this is a classic example of greed. Unfortunately, my hope for One DnD is not good. I foresee the next step in the future will be microtransactions taking over the game once VTTRPG goes online. The CEO is from microsoft and is treating the brand like a video game. #opendnd #dndbegone
Have we seen a new version to see what is actually changing?
If the ORC license ends up being as open as its creators claim it will, they won't be able to stop WotC from publishing content under it if there is a benefit to them doing so. Ergo they have absolutely nothing to lose by also having their own license that is more restrictive.
I think OP may be misunderstanding but Wizards could (theoretically) join in creating a foundtion similar to the Linux Foundation or Free Software Foundation as a custodian of the ORC. The chances of that are less than 1 but I bet nobody thought Microsoft would join the Linux Foundation or that they would create the .NET Foundation so who knows. I do acknowledge there is a significant difference between software and RPGs (obviously).
Nope. Which is why there are a growing number of folks not posting a lot any more. A decent number of folks (present company included) are watching, waiting and tapping a toe to see what the revision looks like before offering any further threats and actions. If they screw it up again (which is possible, bust SEEMS unlikely) I expect things to explode again from all sides. If they get it right, the naysayers will quiet down and things will proceed. I expect, however, Wizards will find themselves under tight scrutiny by the community for some time now.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
I doubt anyone would actually want WotC involved with crafting the ORC license, even if WotC wanted to.
They could donate to whatever foundation Kobold et al. end up founding.
Just picked up the Pathfinder beginner box! Looks pretty sweet! Thanks, Wotc! Never would have done it without ya!
I think it's interesting how the leaked OGL wasn't even official, yet I see folks demanding that they won't stop bagging on WotC until a new OGL that meets all their demands IS official. I thought this thread was titled: Boycotting WotC - Not renewing next year unless OGL Changes. Anyone Else? I guess it should have been titled: I want to keep hating on WotC for as long as possible.
C. Foster Payne
"If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence, try orderin' somebody else's dog around."
Corporate greed run amok.
D&D is Now Trash
Goodbye
It was official.
You're confusing 'leaked' with 'public' and 'official' with 'in force' - They didn't make it public, but it was absolutely official and sent to content creators with a deadline to sign and agree to, in secret.
I have cancelled my subscription - even though I DM a campaign and play in another.
I have bought all D&D content on D&D Beyond and had a Master Tier subscription.
I don’t want to stop playing D&D - I love this game. But I need to send a message that is heard.
After watching the Legal Eagle video on this topic, as well as checking out the show notes for the Opening Arguments podcast on this topic, I'm a lot less concerned than I was. There are still SOME concerns, and hopefully Wizards will correct those.
I encourage folks to check these out.
No worries, it is an emotional subject and there is a lot of info flying around. I have a feeling that this whole thing was deliberately done by WoTC to gauge the community's reaction and wanted to make sure that we weren't being manipulated. The poll is a good one.
I personally have no doubts in my opinion that the corporate shills at WotC and Hasbro did try to pull a fast one by sending out the horrible OGL 1.1 to creators complete with executable documents and a swift deadline, all hoping that no one would notice. To claim that they always meant to get community feedback is an obvious lie. They really do think we're stupid though and are sticking with that opinion since while they said nice words, they made no lasting guarantees and will likely try this again once again hoping that people won't notice. I fear anyone who thinks WotC actually learned any sort of lesson and intends to become an honest caretaker of D&D is going to be sorely disappointed in the end.
There are interesting updated articles on this. One on Gizmodo specifies the cancellation of dndbeyond accounts as a main driver of WotC's backtracking (https://gizmodo.com/dungeons-dragons-wizards-hasbro-ogl-open-game-license-1849981136) because it did indeed provide an immediate and provable effect on their bottom line. Corporate America doesn't give a damn about their consumers, just their bottom line. There's also a quite long article on CNBC (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/13/hasbro-delays-new-dungeons-dragons-licensing-rules.html) that mentions some higher profile third-party content creators were approached late last year with a "sweetheart deal" trying to get them to sign before any announcements were made that once against blows the claim of intending to get community feedback out of the water.
In short, they lied, they lost, and they've learned nothing.
Read the articles. This wasn't a "preview" - this was sent WITH A CONTRACT ATTACHED to people with 9 days to sign.
You're ignoring the facts.
Come watch us save the multiverse in "The Lost Dragons of Phandelver" - a homebrew based on Lost Mines of Phandelver, Dragon of Icespire Peak, and They Tyranny of Dragons.
https://www.twitch.tv/kdinla
The Gatewalker Saga - Dragons Beware