Mine is currently cancelled. This eviscerating of the ogl, something used for completely DnD free products mind you, combined with the ridiculousness of Mtg 30 lost me as a customer. Things need to change before I come back. It's sad because this by far the best way to play DnD.
They just released a statement full of lies about their intent that doesn't address all of our concerns. But honestly, any version that doesn't add the words irrevocable, isn't worth it.
Not only are they going ahead with revoking 1.0a, now they have zero reason not to, because Paizo et al. are making ORC anyway even if they make 1.0a irrevocable. So why should they make things even easier for those companies and continue helping them fund their own directly competing creation? Pulling the old license is inevitable now.
It's in no way a rumor where are you getting this information from, the employees who have been leaking info say it's true, the creators that got the document say it's true, Patreon who WOTC contacted says it's true and WOTC themselves said it's true and they told us, their fans to get bent and we're over reacting.
They just released a statement full of lies about their intent that doesn't address all of our concerns. But honestly, any version that doesn't add the words irrevocable, isn't worth it.
Not only are they going ahead with revoking 1.0a, now they have zero reason not to, because Paizo et al. are making ORC anyway even if they make 1.0a irrevocable. So why should they make things even easier for those companies and continue helping them fund their own directly competing creation? Pulling the old license is inevitable now.
Because it is in their financial best interest to at least try to entice third parties to continue developing content for them.
You know, like how it worked during the two most successful editions of DnD released so far?
This is one of the most confounding things about this whole fiasco - they had plenty of data and history to make decisions based on, at no point has OGL 1.0a ever been associated with an edition of Dungeons of Dragons not being successful. The opposite, however, is not true.
They just released a statement full of lies about their intent that doesn't address all of our concerns. But honestly, any version that doesn't add the words irrevocable, isn't worth it.
Not only are they going ahead with revoking 1.0a, now they have zero reason not to, because Paizo et al. are making ORC anyway even if they make 1.0a irrevocable. So why should they make things even easier for those companies and continue helping them fund their own directly competing creation? Pulling the old license is inevitable now.
Because it is in their financial best interest to at least try to entice third parties to continue developing content for them.
You know, like how it worked during the two most successful editions of DnD released so far?
This is one of the most confounding things about this whole fiasco - they had plenty of data and history to make decisions based on, at no point has OGL 1.0a ever been associated with an edition of Dungeons of Dragons not being successful. The opposite, however, is not true.
There's already strong incentive for them to keep doing that. Even with the "mass exodus" to Pathfinder 2e, D&D is still likely the #1 TTRPG in the world, or at worst #2 like it was with 4e and the GSL. In other words, writing 3PP for WotC's product is still the best way for new and even existing designers to get their work noticed by the masses, most of whom barely even care about this issue.
The biggest obstacle to them doing so - ceding control of their IP to WotC - is no longer going to be part of the new OGL. If the new language backs this up, they'll cave and write for 5e/1DnD.
They just released a statement full of lies about their intent that doesn't address all of our concerns. But honestly, any version that doesn't add the words irrevocable, isn't worth it.
Not only are they going ahead with revoking 1.0a, now they have zero reason not to, because Paizo et al. are making ORC anyway even if they make 1.0a irrevocable. So why should they make things even easier for those companies and continue helping them fund their own directly competing creation? Pulling the old license is inevitable now.
Because it is in their financial best interest to at least try to entice third parties to continue developing content for them.
You know, like how it worked during the two most successful editions of DnD released so far?
This is one of the most confounding things about this whole fiasco - they had plenty of data and history to make decisions based on, at no point has OGL 1.0a ever been associated with an edition of Dungeons of Dragons not being successful. The opposite, however, is not true.
There's already strong incentive for them to keep doing that. Even with the "mass exodus" to Pathfinder 2e, D&D is still likely the #1 TTRPG in the world, or at worst #2 like it was with 4e and the GSL. In other words, writing 3PP for WotC's product is still the best way for new and even existing designers to get their work noticed by the masses, most of whom barely even care about this issue.
The biggest obstacle to them doing so - ceding control of their IP to WotC - is no longer going to be part of the new OGL. If the new language backs this up, they'll cave and write for 5e/1DnD.
You would have to be insane to sign any sort of agreement with WotC at this point as a 'non-equal' party - smaller developers have no reason to believe that they'll keep their word, and there's no no indication at all WotC has any intent to include strong safeguards in the new version of the OGL that prevent the terms of the agreement from changing on their whim.
Because again, after all, they've demonstrated they're willing to maliciously misinterpret the language of 1.0a to try and de-authorize it using language clearly intended to prevent it being revoked.
If they backtrack on trying to revoke 1.0a, there'd at least by the implication that they're acknowledging they can't revoke it on a whim (which is, of course, likely true).
They just released a statement full of lies about their intent that doesn't address all of our concerns. But honestly, any version that doesn't add the words irrevocable, isn't worth it.
Not only are they going ahead with revoking 1.0a, now they have zero reason not to, because Paizo et al. are making ORC anyway even if they make 1.0a irrevocable. So why should they make things even easier for those companies and continue helping them fund their own directly competing creation? Pulling the old license is inevitable now.
Because it is in their financial best interest to at least try to entice third parties to continue developing content for them.
You know, like how it worked during the two most successful editions of DnD released so far?
This is one of the most confounding things about this whole fiasco - they had plenty of data and history to make decisions based on, at no point has OGL 1.0a ever been associated with an edition of Dungeons of Dragons not being successful. The opposite, however, is not true.
There's already strong incentive for them to keep doing that. Even with the "mass exodus" to Pathfinder 2e, D&D is still likely the #1 TTRPG in the world, or at worst #2 like it was with 4e and the GSL. In other words, writing 3PP for WotC's product is still the best way for new and even existing designers to get their work noticed by the masses, most of whom barely even care about this issue.
The biggest obstacle to them doing so - ceding control of their IP to WotC - is no longer going to be part of the new OGL. If the new language backs this up, they'll cave and write for 5e/1DnD.
You would have to be insane to sign any sort of agreement with WotC at this point as a 'non-equal' party - smaller developers have no reason to believe that they'll keep their word, and there's no no indication at all WotC has any intent to include strong safeguards in the new version of the OGL that prevent the terms of the agreement from changing on their whim.
Because again, after all, they've demonstrated they're willing to maliciously misinterpret the language of 1.0a to try and de-authorize it using language clearly intended to prevent it being revoked.
If they backtrack on trying to revoke 1.0a, there'd at least by the implication that they're acknowledging they can't revoke it on a whim (which is, of course, likely true).
I'm not saying you're wrong for writing off the OGL and holding out for Paizo's ORC. That's a business calculation every 3PP will have to make for themselves. Just don't get mad when other authors who stick around raise their profile and become successful in the meantime.
I have been a MTG player since I was 12, 32 now and have enjoyed DnD but the disrespect for the players, community and game itself has left a sour taste in my mouth. I will no longer support Wizards or Hasbro. Subscription to DnDB cancelled and I wont be buying anymore cards. These greedy goblins wont take my gold anymore. As a community not only do we need to boycott DnDB and MTG but also Hasbro movies and toys. If they care so much about there bottom line lets plunge it to the 9 Hells and see how they like it.
I stopped buying MtG cards when WotC started banning cards from play. Why should I spend my money on cards I might never be able to use. Also, I disagreed with a lot of the new cards at that time. I still have most of my cards and still play occasionally with friends who still have their cards though those are getting fewer and fewer among my circle of friends.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
Cancelled sub. It expires in October. I won't renew unless they walk it all back. OGL 1a or bust.
In the meantime I've opened an account with Paizo and bought all their books. Also getting excited about the OSR.
I can’t afford to buy a yearly subscription unfortunately. I have well over 200+ character on DND Beyond and use the site multiple times weekly for my games both as a DM and as a player. Through very careful money management I own at least 90% of the material put out on DND Beyond. I cannot cancel my monthly subscription do to my usage, BUT I will NOT be purchasing new materials through them for the foreseeable future.
I am looking at moving to Pathfinder 2 if I can find an online resource for PF2 like DND Beyond was for 5e. I ran PF1 during the 4e era due to my complete dislike for 4e, and will most likely start switching over to PF2 as finances permit. I will NOT be going with One D&D period. I completely dislike what I have seen to date. I’d been planning to stay with 5e using 3rd party content when One D&D went live (or switching to PF2 as I have already stated). This current OGL fiasco has made up my mind for me.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
My husband and me already cancelled ours, His was monthly and mine was yearly since i used it so much.
Now i am trying to find a way to save all the products we bought from here cause I will be damned if what i spend money on I can't own physically when a company turns how it did. I feel horrible for most of the workers and staff along with everyone impacted but considering how many of my family, friends and myself have helped with production of third party content and some who still work in it, it wont happen.
This literally is an attack on people I know and myself personally so Wiz/Hasbro this statement is for you.
"TILL WE HAVE A PROPER OGL WE WILL NOT BEND. OUR CURRENT OGL WAS ALREADY ROUGH BUT DID WHAT YOU STATED AND THIS WAS ALL TO MAKE MONEY AND STEAL THE COMMUNITY'S HARD EARNED WORK AS A CREATIVE GROUP. I AM SURE IT WILL BE DELETED OR EDITED CAUSE OF HOW THE APOLOGY LETTER WAS EVEN WITH STATING BLATANT LIES BUT I AM NOT UNDER ANY CONTRACT WITH YOU AND IF THIS GIVES YOU THE RIGHT TO DELETE HUNDREDS TO THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS OF BOUGHT PRODUCT DIGITALLY SO BE IT BUT YOU BIT THE HAND THAT FEEDS YOU THE DOE AND WE ARE NOT BENDING."
stupid rant statement over but been playing this game since I was able to back in the late 80s and early 90s. My husband and me met through roll20 through a third party content based on and used with DnD so this is a great birthday month for me. Thank you for letting me know that the tabletop community will be assaulted by corporate greed for 2023...maybe it will be better in 2024 and we can all go back to buying your product and using your services again.
please note Hasbro/wiz, your apology letter was full of lies and lawyer/public relation propaganda which can all be ignored since you literally can do whatever trying to force a new more corpo Big evil dragon of the cyber shadow runned scrouge business. None of this that you stated has to actually by law be actually used in the so called newer ogl you are trying and it was never a draft.
"Hasbro have changed you, your focus, your integrity and your very nature. The world is suffering, times are tough, yet the message you portray (with the worst timing) is how much £ you can squeeze from me? My £'s are needed elsewhere."
I laugh so much at a lot of the doomsayers. A release of a proposed legal change comes out and everyone screams "OMG You CAN't do this!!" A release comes out saying "We heard you, so we are going to alter this" and people scream "It's too late, I was butthurt by your proposal and changing isn't enough! I quits!"
So doing it was horrible, repealing it isn't enough......Good riddance to most, then.
I fully support everyone exploring all the other options out there. I applaud the teams now working to develop alternate products offering more options for players. I have no respect, compassion or agreement with those tossing tantrums and stomping off because something was proposed that they didn't like. They suggest, the fan base responds and they agree to do it differently. Stomping away after you get what you want is the epitome of a spoiled child.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
I laugh so much at a lot of the doomsayers. A release of a proposed legal change comes out and everyone screams "OMG You CAN't do this!!" A release comes out saying "We heard you, so we are going to alter this" and people scream "It's too late, I was butthurt by your proposal and changing isn't enough! I quits!"
So doing it was horrible, repealing it isn't enough......Good riddance to most, then.
I fully support everyone exploring all the other options out there. I applaud the teams now working to develop alternate products offering more options for players. I have no respect, compassion or agreement with those tossing tantrums and stomping off because something was proposed that they didn't like. They suggest, the fan base responds and they agree to do it differently. Stomping away after you get what you want is the epitome of a spoiled child.
They didn't walk back a single thing so long as they're still trying to deauthorize 1.0a, and so long as they can change the terms of 2.0 or whatever they call it after its issued.
Their statement was gaslighting and smoke and mirrors. Thats the problem - they made a meaningless statement and they're hoping people don't notice they didn't actually concede anything, because none of their promises came with assurance.
I was at a large company that went under for dropping product and service quality; at no point did I blame the customers who moved on, it was the fault of my leadership. I sympathize with Wizards' employees; a company that mistreats the people who give them money treats those they pay worse.
There's a limit to the behaviors I will reciprocate with money, no matter how much I love the property. I bought my first D&D book in 1985 and my last one in 2022. Jumped here from cancelling my annual master tier subscription. Heading out to buy some Mongoose and Modiphius products. I'm already in the habit of not watching D&D movies.
WoTC has too many competitors to treat this community this way. If it ends up hurting their profits, call it a lesson in hubris.
I was at a large company that went under for dropping product and service quality; at no point did I blame the customers who moved on, it was the fault of my leadership. I sympathize with Wizards' employees; a company that mistreats the people who give them money treats those they pay worse.
There's a limit to the behaviors I will reciprocate with money, no matter how much I love the property. I bought my first D&D book in 1985 and my last one in 2022. Jumped here from cancelling my annual master tier subscription. Heading out to buy some Mongoose and Modiphius products. I'm already in the habit of not watching D&D movies.
WoTC has too many competitors to treat this community this way. If it ends up hurting their profits, call it a lesson in hubris.
Brilliantly stated!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Come watch us save the multiverse in "The Lost Dragons of Phandelver" - a homebrew based on Lost Mines of Phandelver, Dragon of Icespire Peak, and They Tyranny of Dragons. https://www.twitch.tv/kdinla The Gatewalker Saga - Dragons Beware
Its not good, I am hoping that WOTC will ammend to more reasonable terms. The 25% revenue grap for $750k plus group is rediculous, most games dont make 25% gp full stop and certainly not in the first year of release!
Its not good, I am hoping that WOTC will ammend to more reasonable terms. The 25% revenue grap for $750k plus group is rediculous, most games dont make 25% gp full stop and certainly not in the first year of release!
I hope that common sense will prevail
FWIW, they have relented initially on this item. No royalties in OGL 2.0.
They didn't provide any assurances they can't simply reinstate these terms at will, however, which is the true core of the issue.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I cancelled mine after having DNDB for years. I'm not sure I will continue playing if they think they can do another OGL.
THERE IS NO NEXT OGL. OGL 1.0a will stay in place. You can try it for 6e, but no one will move to that and just play 5e.
Mine is currently cancelled. This eviscerating of the ogl, something used for completely DnD free products mind you, combined with the ridiculousness of Mtg 30 lost me as a customer. Things need to change before I come back. It's sad because this by far the best way to play DnD.
Not only are they going ahead with revoking 1.0a, now they have zero reason not to, because Paizo et al. are making ORC anyway even if they make 1.0a irrevocable. So why should they make things even easier for those companies and continue helping them fund their own directly competing creation? Pulling the old license is inevitable now.
It's in no way a rumor where are you getting this information from, the employees who have been leaking info say it's true, the creators that got the document say it's true, Patreon who WOTC contacted says it's true and WOTC themselves said it's true and they told us, their fans to get bent and we're over reacting.
Because it is in their financial best interest to at least try to entice third parties to continue developing content for them.
You know, like how it worked during the two most successful editions of DnD released so far?
This is one of the most confounding things about this whole fiasco - they had plenty of data and history to make decisions based on, at no point has OGL 1.0a ever been associated with an edition of Dungeons of Dragons not being successful. The opposite, however, is not true.
There's already strong incentive for them to keep doing that. Even with the "mass exodus" to Pathfinder 2e, D&D is still likely the #1 TTRPG in the world, or at worst #2 like it was with 4e and the GSL. In other words, writing 3PP for WotC's product is still the best way for new and even existing designers to get their work noticed by the masses, most of whom barely even care about this issue.
The biggest obstacle to them doing so - ceding control of their IP to WotC - is no longer going to be part of the new OGL. If the new language backs this up, they'll cave and write for 5e/1DnD.
You would have to be insane to sign any sort of agreement with WotC at this point as a 'non-equal' party - smaller developers have no reason to believe that they'll keep their word, and there's no no indication at all WotC has any intent to include strong safeguards in the new version of the OGL that prevent the terms of the agreement from changing on their whim.
Because again, after all, they've demonstrated they're willing to maliciously misinterpret the language of 1.0a to try and de-authorize it using language clearly intended to prevent it being revoked.
If they backtrack on trying to revoke 1.0a, there'd at least by the implication that they're acknowledging they can't revoke it on a whim (which is, of course, likely true).
I'm not saying you're wrong for writing off the OGL and holding out for Paizo's ORC. That's a business calculation every 3PP will have to make for themselves. Just don't get mad when other authors who stick around raise their profile and become successful in the meantime.
who? Every single one of them that I know (especially ones that make content regularly" allready burning bridgess, openly calling wizards out.
I stopped buying MtG cards when WotC started banning cards from play. Why should I spend my money on cards I might never be able to use. Also, I disagreed with a lot of the new cards at that time.
I still have most of my cards and still play occasionally with friends who still have their cards though those are getting fewer and fewer among my circle of friends.
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
I can’t afford to buy a yearly subscription unfortunately. I have well over 200+ character on DND Beyond and use the site multiple times weekly for my games both as a DM and as a player. Through very careful money management I own at least 90% of the material put out on DND Beyond. I cannot cancel my monthly subscription do to my usage, BUT I will NOT be purchasing new materials through them for the foreseeable future.
I am looking at moving to Pathfinder 2 if I can find an online resource for PF2 like DND Beyond was for 5e. I ran PF1 during the 4e era due to my complete dislike for 4e, and will most likely start switching over to PF2 as finances permit. I will NOT be going with One D&D period. I completely dislike what I have seen to date. I’d been planning to stay with 5e using 3rd party content when One D&D went live (or switching to PF2 as I have already stated). This current OGL fiasco has made up my mind for me.
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
My husband and me already cancelled ours, His was monthly and mine was yearly since i used it so much.
Now i am trying to find a way to save all the products we bought from here cause I will be damned if what i spend money on I can't own physically when a company turns how it did. I feel horrible for most of the workers and staff along with everyone impacted but considering how many of my family, friends and myself have helped with production of third party content and some who still work in it, it wont happen.
This literally is an attack on people I know and myself personally so Wiz/Hasbro this statement is for you.
"TILL WE HAVE A PROPER OGL WE WILL NOT BEND. OUR CURRENT OGL WAS ALREADY ROUGH BUT DID WHAT YOU STATED AND THIS WAS ALL TO MAKE MONEY AND STEAL THE COMMUNITY'S HARD EARNED WORK AS A CREATIVE GROUP. I AM SURE IT WILL BE DELETED OR EDITED CAUSE OF HOW THE APOLOGY LETTER WAS EVEN WITH STATING BLATANT LIES BUT I AM NOT UNDER ANY CONTRACT WITH YOU AND IF THIS GIVES YOU THE RIGHT TO DELETE HUNDREDS TO THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS OF BOUGHT PRODUCT DIGITALLY SO BE IT BUT YOU BIT THE HAND THAT FEEDS YOU THE DOE AND WE ARE NOT BENDING."
stupid rant statement over but been playing this game since I was able to back in the late 80s and early 90s. My husband and me met through roll20 through a third party content based on and used with DnD so this is a great birthday month for me. Thank you for letting me know that the tabletop community will be assaulted by corporate greed for 2023...maybe it will be better in 2024 and we can all go back to buying your product and using your services again.
please note Hasbro/wiz, your apology letter was full of lies and lawyer/public relation propaganda which can all be ignored since you literally can do whatever trying to force a new more corpo Big evil dragon of the cyber shadow runned scrouge business. None of this that you stated has to actually by law be actually used in the so called newer ogl you are trying and it was never a draft.
Cancelled sub (August renewal)
Feedback given:
"Hasbro have changed you, your focus, your integrity and your very nature. The world is suffering, times are tough, yet the message you portray (with the worst timing) is how much £ you can squeeze from me? My £'s are needed elsewhere."
Other hobbies and systems to play.
I laugh so much at a lot of the doomsayers. A release of a proposed legal change comes out and everyone screams "OMG You CAN't do this!!" A release comes out saying "We heard you, so we are going to alter this" and people scream "It's too late, I was butthurt by your proposal and changing isn't enough! I quits!"
So doing it was horrible, repealing it isn't enough......Good riddance to most, then.
I fully support everyone exploring all the other options out there. I applaud the teams now working to develop alternate products offering more options for players. I have no respect, compassion or agreement with those tossing tantrums and stomping off because something was proposed that they didn't like. They suggest, the fan base responds and they agree to do it differently. Stomping away after you get what you want is the epitome of a spoiled child.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
They didn't walk back a single thing so long as they're still trying to deauthorize 1.0a, and so long as they can change the terms of 2.0 or whatever they call it after its issued.
Their statement was gaslighting and smoke and mirrors. Thats the problem - they made a meaningless statement and they're hoping people don't notice they didn't actually concede anything, because none of their promises came with assurance.
I was at a large company that went under for dropping product and service quality; at no point did I blame the customers who moved on, it was the fault of my leadership. I sympathize with Wizards' employees; a company that mistreats the people who give them money treats those they pay worse.
There's a limit to the behaviors I will reciprocate with money, no matter how much I love the property. I bought my first D&D book in 1985 and my last one in 2022. Jumped here from cancelling my annual master tier subscription. Heading out to buy some Mongoose and Modiphius products. I'm already in the habit of not watching D&D movies.
WoTC has too many competitors to treat this community this way. If it ends up hurting their profits, call it a lesson in hubris.
Brilliantly stated!
Come watch us save the multiverse in "The Lost Dragons of Phandelver" - a homebrew based on Lost Mines of Phandelver, Dragon of Icespire Peak, and They Tyranny of Dragons.
https://www.twitch.tv/kdinla
The Gatewalker Saga - Dragons Beware
Cancelled sub. Feb 28th for me. Looking into other systems to move my players to.
Its not good, I am hoping that WOTC will ammend to more reasonable terms. The 25% revenue grap for $750k plus group is rediculous, most games dont make 25% gp full stop and certainly not in the first year of release!
I hope that common sense will prevail
FWIW, they have relented initially on this item. No royalties in OGL 2.0.
They didn't provide any assurances they can't simply reinstate these terms at will, however, which is the true core of the issue.