I'm struggling a bit with an interpretation of the rules.
Somatic components require a free hand to use.
Material components (not talking the component pouch and spellcaster focai) require a free hand to use but it can be the same hand used for somatic components.
As an alternative, you can use a component pouch which requires a free hand to use or a focus which must be held.
So, if you have a druid with a focus in one hand and a spear in the other, do they need the Warcaster feat to cast a spell with both material and somatic components? Another example would be a druid wielding a staff focus and a shield.
This was something I’d really hoped they’d clean up in the rules update. I’ll take a stab at it. If a spell has both an M and S component and you are using a focus, you’re good. The hand holding the M can also do the S part.
The tricky thing is when a spell has an S but no M (cure wounds for example). In that case, you need a free hand or warcaster.
Generally speaking this only comes up for sword and board cases like a Paladin where having their weapon sheathed precludes making an AoO. Which imo is a fair trade-off for having a shield out and spellcasting.
This was something I’d really hoped they’d clean up in the rules update. I’ll take a stab at it. If a spell has both an M and S component and you are using a focus, you’re good. The hand holding the M can also do the S part.
The tricky thing is when a spell has an S but no M (cure wounds for example). In that case, you need a free hand or warcaster.
Is this in the new PHB? I'm trying to find it, but it's not in. The obvious place...and my app is refusing to cooperate with my searches.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I'm more thinking of druids who can use their focus as a weapon but also carry a shield while doing so. The way the rule is worded makes it unclear. You can, of course, interpret the rules however you want but I was kind of hoping there was an official ruling out there.
This was something I’d really hoped they’d clean up in the rules update. I’ll take a stab at it. If a spell has both an M and S component and you are using a focus, you’re good. The hand holding the M can also do the S part.
The tricky thing is when a spell has an S but no M (cure wounds for example). In that case, you need a free hand or warcaster.
Is this in the new PHB? I'm trying to find it, but it's not in. The obvious place...and my app is refusing to cooperate with my searches.
That’s just the component casting rules and the way they end up interacting with each other. I don’t think it’s written down specifically, it’s more the end result.
I'm more thinking of druids who can use their focus as a weapon but also carry a shield while doing so. The way the rule is worded makes it unclear. You can, of course, interpret the rules however you want but I was kind of hoping there was an official ruling out there.
The official ruling is that if there's an S component but no M, you need an empty hand, meaning you will typically need to stow the staff essentially until the start of your next turn. Really, it's not super relevant for Druids though because even with Shillelagh they very rarely mix it up in melee unless they're in Beast form.
I'm more thinking of druids who can use their focus as a weapon but also carry a shield while doing so. The way the rule is worded makes it unclear. You can, of course, interpret the rules however you want but I was kind of hoping there was an official ruling out there.
The official ruling is that if there's an S component but no M, you need an empty hand, meaning you will typically need to stow the staff essentially until the start of your next turn. Really, it's not super relevant for Druids though because even with Shillelagh they very rarely mix it up in melee unless they're in Beast form.
This is actually what I was looking for and settles the question for me. Thanks!
However, you need to use that hand for "forceful gestures or intricate gesticulations", which means it needs to be free.
More to the point, they've carried over the Cleric example for the 2024 Sage Rules which states that if you're casting a spell without Material Components then your hand must be free (but you can use your hand that's holding the material components or their substitute for the Somatic Component otherwise). The intent is the same as 2014 - your hand must be free if there is no M Component.
I don't like this rule as it doesn't really make sense to me from a verisimilitude point of view, but that's the rule.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
The point of the rule is so that spellcasters can be meaningfully restrained without having to break out fancy magic items- tie their hands and gag them and most classes are out of options.
A focus takes the place of a non-costly material component, so if you have your focus in your hand, that counts, and you can make the somatic component of a spell with the focus, such as whirling your staff in the air, flicking a wand, or twiddling a crystal.
A lot of tables don't get too persnickety about this, so unless you are at or running a more restrictive table, holding your focus is usually enough.
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He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player. The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call To rise up in triumph should we all unite The spark for change is yours to ignite." Kalandra - The State of the World
The point of the rule is so that spellcasters can be meaningfully restrained without having to break out fancy magic items- tie their hands and gag them and most classes are out of options.
No, these convoluted rules aren't for that. "Somatic components can be performed with a free hand OR a hand holding a focus" would support restraint just as well and be way simpler.
All the current rules are set up to prevent is the casting of spells with S but no M components when your hands are full, even if those hands include a spellcasting focus - in which case you can cast spells with M AND S components with no problem.
The only reason for rules as written is to enforce the flavor that spells with S but no M components require complex Naruto ninjitsu hand contortions. I suppose we should be thankful they don't require that BOTH hands be free...
Because it’s such a hardship to stow an item as a free action, particularly something like a focus that serves little to no purpose when it’s not being used to cast a spell?
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I'm struggling a bit with an interpretation of the rules.
So, if you have a druid with a focus in one hand and a spear in the other, do they need the Warcaster feat to cast a spell with both material and somatic components? Another example would be a druid wielding a staff focus and a shield.
This was something I’d really hoped they’d clean up in the rules update. I’ll take a stab at it.
If a spell has both an M and S component and you are using a focus, you’re good. The hand holding the M can also do the S part.
The tricky thing is when a spell has an S but no M (cure wounds for example). In that case, you need a free hand or warcaster.
Generally speaking this only comes up for sword and board cases like a Paladin where having their weapon sheathed precludes making an AoO. Which imo is a fair trade-off for having a shield out and spellcasting.
Is this in the new PHB? I'm trying to find it, but it's not in. The obvious place...and my app is refusing to cooperate with my searches.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Chaper 7 Spells under the heading Casting Spells. You can find it in the table of contents.
I'm more thinking of druids who can use their focus as a weapon but also carry a shield while doing so. The way the rule is worded makes it unclear. You can, of course, interpret the rules however you want but I was kind of hoping there was an official ruling out there.
That’s just the component casting rules and the way they end up interacting with each other. I don’t think it’s written down specifically, it’s more the end result.
The official ruling is that if there's an S component but no M, you need an empty hand, meaning you will typically need to stow the staff essentially until the start of your next turn. Really, it's not super relevant for Druids though because even with Shillelagh they very rarely mix it up in melee unless they're in Beast form.
This is actually what I was looking for and settles the question for me. Thanks!
In the PHB 2024 the definition of Somatic is: spellcasters must use at least one of their hands ... it doesn't say free hand.
However, you need to use that hand for "forceful gestures or intricate gesticulations", which means it needs to be free.
More to the point, they've carried over the Cleric example for the 2024 Sage Rules which states that if you're casting a spell without Material Components then your hand must be free (but you can use your hand that's holding the material components or their substitute for the Somatic Component otherwise). The intent is the same as 2014 - your hand must be free if there is no M Component.
I don't like this rule as it doesn't really make sense to me from a verisimilitude point of view, but that's the rule.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
The point of the rule is so that spellcasters can be meaningfully restrained without having to break out fancy magic items- tie their hands and gag them and most classes are out of options.
A focus takes the place of a non-costly material component, so if you have your focus in your hand, that counts, and you can make the somatic component of a spell with the focus, such as whirling your staff in the air, flicking a wand, or twiddling a crystal.
A lot of tables don't get too persnickety about this, so unless you are at or running a more restrictive table, holding your focus is usually enough.
He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player.
The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call
To rise up in triumph should we all unite
The spark for change is yours to ignite."
Kalandra - The State of the World
That’s really splitting hairs.
Also, the 24 DMG says rules rely on a good faith interpretation., which it seems like this runs afoul of.
It's discussions like this that makes the Warcaster feat really important.
No, these convoluted rules aren't for that. "Somatic components can be performed with a free hand OR a hand holding a focus" would support restraint just as well and be way simpler.
All the current rules are set up to prevent is the casting of spells with S but no M components when your hands are full, even if those hands include a spellcasting focus - in which case you can cast spells with M AND S components with no problem.
The only reason for rules as written is to enforce the flavor that spells with S but no M components require complex Naruto ninjitsu hand contortions. I suppose we should be thankful they don't require that BOTH hands be free...
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Because it’s such a hardship to stow an item as a free action, particularly something like a focus that serves little to no purpose when it’s not being used to cast a spell?