Nurture vs. Nature. Mind Flayers are naturally created through evil acts, but don't have to choose to be that way. They don't get to choose whether or not they are mind flayers or whether or not they have to eat brains to survive, but they can try to not do evil acts by finding other solutions.
So let's say everybody needs water to survive. If you don't drink water, you die. Then we discover that water is sentient and thinks humanity is evil for consuming it, and abusing it by using for cleaning and mixing in foul items.
How many people will stop using water?
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
Nurture vs. Nature. Mind Flayers are naturally created through evil acts, but don't have to choose to be that way. They don't get to choose whether or not they are mind flayers or whether or not they have to eat brains to survive, but they can try to not do evil acts by finding other solutions.
So let's say everybody needs water to survive. If you don't drink water, you die. Then we discover that water is sentient and thinks humanity is evil for consuming it, and abusing it by using for cleaning and mixing in foul items.
How many people will stop using water?
Water isn't sentient (which alone should be able to shut down your argument). Also, besides that fact, we are literally made out of mostly water. Mind Flayers are not made out of brains.
Additionally, I don't understand what point you're trying to get across here? It's okay that mind flayers eat brains and murder humanoids? It's okay that they use mind-blasted slaves to accomplish those tasks?
Next time you play devil's advocate, come up with an analogy with more relevance and a better conclusion than "mind flayers are not responsible for being evil", please.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Nurture vs. Nature. Mind Flayers are naturally created through evil acts, but don't have to choose to be that way. They don't get to choose whether or not they are mind flayers or whether or not they have to eat brains to survive, but they can try to not do evil acts by finding other solutions.
So let's say everybody needs water to survive. If you don't drink water, you die. Then we discover that water is sentient and thinks humanity is evil for consuming it, and abusing it by using for cleaning and mixing in foul items.
How many people will stop using water?
Water isn't sentient (which alone should be able to shut down your argument). Also, besides that fact, we are literally made out of mostly water. Mind Flayers are not made out of brains.
Additionally, I don't understand what point you're trying to get across here? It's okay that mind flayers eat brains and murder humanoids? It's okay that they use mind-blasted slaves to accomplish those tasks?
Next time you play devil's advocate, come up with an analogy with more relevance and a better conclusion than "mind flayers are not responsible for being evil", please.
Why can't water be sentient? 2 sentences later you use the words MIND FLAYER. So we can talk about a world where Mind Flayers exist and all the details about their creation, existence, and purpose yet we can't assume a world where water is sentient?
Chromatic Dragons should not be automatically bad, and Metallic Dragons should not be automatically good, like in Eberron. I'm fine if individual settings make the majority of different dragon types certain alignments due to culture, but this should not be included in a future Monster Manual, IMHO.
And that's when I stop buying D&D products again.
So then this was a horrible movie to you, not because of any of the acting or anything in the script other than the
Chromatic Dragons should not be automatically bad, and Metallic Dragons should not be automatically good, like in Eberron. I'm fine if individual settings make the majority of different dragon types certain alignments due to culture, but this should not be included in a future Monster Manual, IMHO.
And that's when I stop buying D&D products again.
So then this was a horrible movie to you, not because of any of the acting or anything in the script other than the
Why can't water be sentient? 2 sentences later you use the words MIND FLAYER. So we can talk about a world where Mind Flayers exist and all the details about their creation, existence, and purpose yet we can't assume a world where water is sentient?
If there was a world where all water was sentient, it would be the responsibility of those who drink water to stop drinking it, either making elixirs that make them immortal, turning themselves undead, transfer their mind into creatures that don't need water, or to turn into constructs so they no longer need water.
In an imaginary world where drinking water literally hurts the feelings of sentient water and it's evil to do so, it is on the people doing those evil acts to find a way to stop doing those evil things.
If dragons had alignment removed completely from their stat blocks, then you could more easily have a world where something like Eragon is possible. Blue and Green Dragons can be good, and so on. I don't see why in the base rules all dragons from all worlds need that marker of "Chaotic Evil" in the monster manual for Red Dragons.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
If you're saying a mindflayer can be "good" and choose not to eat brains when they need brains to survive, then every "good" mindflayer would die. Putting us back at every mindflayer is evil.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
Chromatic Dragons should not be automatically bad, and Metallic Dragons should not be automatically good, like in Eberron. I'm fine if individual settings make the majority of different dragon types certain alignments due to culture, but this should not be included in a future Monster Manual, IMHO.
And that's when I stop buying D&D products again.
So then this was a horrible movie to you, not because of any of the acting or anything in the script other than the
If you're saying a mindflayer can be "good" and choose not to eat brains when they need brains to survive, then every "good" mindflayer would die. Putting us back at every mindflayer is evil.
And of course someone pulls a strawman. If there was a world where all water was sentient, it would be the responsibility of those who drink water to stop drinking it, either making elixirs that make them immortal, turning themselves undead, transfer their mind into creatures that don't need water, or to turn into constructs so they no longer need water.
In an imaginary world where drinking water literally hurts the feelings of sentient water and it's evil to do so, it is on the people doing those evil acts to find a way to stop doing those evil things.
So using your imagination, what would happen if this discovery was made in our world, right now. People need water. They will choose to drink it and wash with it. Even if it is called out to be an evil act, people will still do it because they need it in order to live.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
Chromatic Dragons should not be automatically bad, and Metallic Dragons should not be automatically good, like in Eberron. I'm fine if individual settings make the majority of different dragon types certain alignments due to culture, but this should not be included in a future Monster Manual, IMHO.
And that's when I stop buying D&D products again.
So then this was a horrible movie to you, not because of any of the acting or anything in the script other than the
And of course someone pulls a strawman. If there was a world where all water was sentient, it would be the responsibility of those who drink water to stop drinking it, either making elixirs that make them immortal, turning themselves undead, transfer their mind into creatures that don't need water, or to turn into constructs so they no longer need water.
In an imaginary world where drinking water literally hurts the feelings of sentient water and it's evil to do so, it is on the people doing those evil acts to find a way to stop doing those evil things.
So using your imagination, what would happen if this discovery was made in our world, right now. People need water. They will choose to drink it and wash with it. Even if it is called out to be an evil act, people will still do it because they need it in order to live.
Only if you explain how this is at all relevant in a thread about D&D? This cannot happen in the real world, and so I will not engage further with the troll unless you give me a real reason to reply.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
And of course someone pulls a strawman. If there was a world where all water was sentient, it would be the responsibility of those who drink water to stop drinking it, either making elixirs that make them immortal, turning themselves undead, transfer their mind into creatures that don't need water, or to turn into constructs so they no longer need water.
In an imaginary world where drinking water literally hurts the feelings of sentient water and it's evil to do so, it is on the people doing those evil acts to find a way to stop doing those evil things.
So using your imagination, what would happen if this discovery was made in our world, right now. People need water. They will choose to drink it and wash with it. Even if it is called out to be an evil act, people will still do it because they need it in order to live.
Only if you explain how this is at all relevant in a thread about D&D? This cannot happen in the real world, and so I will not engage further with the troll unless you give me a real reason to reply.
I am actually curious. Forget the sentient water. Do you believe animals like wolves, tigers, bears etc. are inherently evil because they cannot sustain themselves without eating other animals?
What about us? We must eat something, and even if you're vegetarian you kill plants, which are living beings.
If carnivores aren't inherently evil, Mindflayers aren't evil for eating brains, either.
Yeah, “evil” is a matter of perspective in that regard. Imagine how we must look from the pig’s perspective.... Think about that next time you’re enjoying a bacon sandwich.
So let's say everybody needs water to survive. If you don't drink water, you die. Then we discover that water is sentient and thinks humanity is evil for consuming it, and abusing it by using for cleaning and mixing in foul items.
How many people will stop using water?
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Water isn't sentient (which alone should be able to shut down your argument). Also, besides that fact, we are literally made out of mostly water. Mind Flayers are not made out of brains.
Additionally, I don't understand what point you're trying to get across here? It's okay that mind flayers eat brains and murder humanoids? It's okay that they use mind-blasted slaves to accomplish those tasks?
Next time you play devil's advocate, come up with an analogy with more relevance and a better conclusion than "mind flayers are not responsible for being evil", please.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Why can't water be sentient? 2 sentences later you use the words MIND FLAYER. So we can talk about a world where Mind Flayers exist and all the details about their creation, existence, and purpose yet we can't assume a world where water is sentient?
All things Lich - DM tips, tricks, and other creative shenanigans
Except that is not D&D. Different universe, different rules.
EDIT: Sean Connery made a great voice for Draco. The rest of the movie wasn't as good. I personally prefer the movie LadyHawk.
Rutget Hauer is gold in just about every movie I've seen him. It was Rutger right?
All things Lich - DM tips, tricks, and other creative shenanigans
If there was a world where all water was sentient, it would be the responsibility of those who drink water to stop drinking it, either making elixirs that make them immortal, turning themselves undead, transfer their mind into creatures that don't need water, or to turn into constructs so they no longer need water.
In an imaginary world where drinking water literally hurts the feelings of sentient water and it's evil to do so, it is on the people doing those evil acts to find a way to stop doing those evil things.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
If dragons had alignment removed completely from their stat blocks, then you could more easily have a world where something like Eragon is possible. Blue and Green Dragons can be good, and so on. I don't see why in the base rules all dragons from all worlds need that marker of "Chaotic Evil" in the monster manual for Red Dragons.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I'm not trying to pull a strawman because I'm not trying to argue with you. But, if that's what you're lookin' for - have at it! Enjoy.
All things Lich - DM tips, tricks, and other creative shenanigans
Yes. Also why everybody suddenly wanted double heavy crossbows in their game.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Wait. Is that ladyhawke with the double crossbows? I haven't seen that movie in 3 decades..maybe time to brush up!
All things Lich - DM tips, tricks, and other creative shenanigans
Okay, sorry if I misunderstood your intentions (though technically you did argue with me in that post).
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
If you're saying a mindflayer can be "good" and choose not to eat brains when they need brains to survive, then every "good" mindflayer would die. Putting us back at every mindflayer is evil.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Ladyhawke was really cool. It’s an old movie, but it’s rare they make a really good fantasy movie about star-crossed lovers.
No harm, no foul. We are good sir. Or mam.
All things Lich - DM tips, tricks, and other creative shenanigans
Sir.
Here's my post on how to avoid that situation:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/general-discussion/73103-races-and-species?comment=399
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
So using your imagination, what would happen if this discovery was made in our world, right now. People need water. They will choose to drink it and wash with it. Even if it is called out to be an evil act, people will still do it because they need it in order to live.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
That wasn’t D&D related.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Only if you explain how this is at all relevant in a thread about D&D? This cannot happen in the real world, and so I will not engage further with the troll unless you give me a real reason to reply.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I am actually curious. Forget the sentient water. Do you believe animals like wolves, tigers, bears etc. are inherently evil because they cannot sustain themselves without eating other animals?
What about us? We must eat something, and even if you're vegetarian you kill plants, which are living beings.
If carnivores aren't inherently evil, Mindflayers aren't evil for eating brains, either.
Yeah, “evil” is a matter of perspective in that regard. Imagine how we must look from the pig’s perspective.... Think about that next time you’re enjoying a bacon sandwich.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting