Honestly, the pricing here makes it a flat out no from me and everyone I play with. None of us are willing to shell out again for book content we already own. A subscription I can get behind, but splat purchases anda sub? Not a chance.
But you don't need the sub for the things in the books, you need the sub to remove ads, share your content with others, and share the content you bought with others. You can buy the books digitally and use them without a sub.
Likewise, you can buy a sub and no books, getting the extra features of the sub without shelling the cash for the books.
I understand that, but I also know that I would expect all of that for a subscription. I also understand why D&D Beyond would want to price this way as a seller (since they didn't get money for my book purchases), but as a customer there's very little incentive for me to buy content I already have. It's the same for future purposes - would I have to buy two lots of Xanathar's? It's just not worth it.
That's the crux of it, it's just not worth it. Far better to just charge a higher sub or at least allow that as an option.
I understand that listening to people who seem entitled can be difficult. I know, I used to work retail. Every day people would come through my line and the only interest they had was in how much they could get for as little as possible. I honestly hated them for a while. Like full on hate, spewing vitriol and venom about them to whoever would listen in my off time. Until I realized that they are just trying to make the system work. Yes, they were trying to get what others weren't getting. wasn't wasnt a personal attack against me. It was them, doing their very level best to get ahead. Sometimes a small win is the only thing that keeps people going.
The people here saying that the pricing is too much, asking for discounts, asking to change things this way or that. They are not attacking anyone, but they are being attacked. Those concerned with the price are turning things this way and that, they are not trying to be cheap, they are not trying to be free, they are trying to find some way to make this work for them, find some way that they can fit this product into their lives.
The fact that they want to try and find some way to get in on this is not an insult, it's not a denigration of the hard work those who made D&DB did. It's a compliment to it that they look at the price and go "I can't afford that" and instead of walking away and shrugging they are trying to find some way to still get to use this. It's a testament to the quality of the work that was put in.
We'll never agree. Take Welfare out of your example. As another customer at your grocery store I would be annoyed if a customer asked for their food for free because they bought it the previous week. From the beginning D&D Beyond has said they won't be giving free copies from owning the physical copy. Fantasy Ground and Roll20 don't have this as well who were doing digital way before D&D Beyond. Logistically the system isn't even there to facilitate this. A new system would have to be put in place for newly purchased books, they wouldn't be able to do anything with books already purchased.
I bought Overwatch on PC and would love to play with my PS4 friends, but Blizzard isn't reimbursing my copy, nor providing access to the same game on the console.
I'm not seeing why this is expected to be different with D&D Beyond, as it's a proven business practice across multiple products/genres.
That's fair until you look at Pathfinder. (I know.... Dirty word.....)
Pathfinder uses the OGL for 3.5, there is an OGL for 5e and a "Pathfinder" equivalent can be created. However the Pathfinder equivalent of 5e wouldn't include Volo's guide to monsters or Curse of Strahd, just like Pathfinder doesn't include Ebberron or Dragonlance. the free version of the DND Beyond application/website (The OGL, what Pathfinder was created from in 3.5), is freely available currently and will be after launch.
You missed the point.... You buy a hardcopy book for Pathfinder, you get a digital PDF. Boom. Or, you buy a less expensive PDF and forego the hardcopy.
Now, this isn't just a PDF so I'm all for having to pay the piper but to act like no other company offers digital content without additional licensing is incorrect. At least they're not charging full price here @ D&DB. That's been my grief with Fantasy Grounds and Roll20....
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Grant K. Smith A+, Network+, MCP x 2, BSIT/VC, MIS
Software Engineer & Dungeon Master
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." - J. R. R. Tolkien "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup" - Anonymous
Something I didn't see mentioned in either the original announcement or subsequent conversation. The master Tier, at 6$/month, allows you to share your books with up to 12 players. However, I just saw this while clicking around in the campaign area:
"Campaign content sharing slots allow players in a campaign to use all of the DM's unlocked content to create, manage, and progress their characters. Players with subscriptions do not consume slots. "
I read that as meaning that the "Up to 12 players" bit is just free players. So you can have unlimited subscription players in your campaign? Or does a campaign have a player limit?
I think the wording as it's written means anyone with a subscription (player or master) wouldn't consume a slot. I would have to think that wording is currently incorrect and should say anyone with a Master Tier subscription doesn't consume a slot (as they pay for the ability to do that as well), but I could be wrong.
Secondly, anything that has a copyright, with 1 product you buy 1 license. If you want more products you have to pay as many licenses. That is how things go.
I'm not sure you know what you're talking about. Maybe you do, and you're just not articulating it well. But here are some clarifications.
Within copyright law, the first sale doctrine means that you can do whatever you want with the copyrighted work you own, including resell it (without holding on to a copy) or make backup copies to preserve the work.
If you license something, no matter what it is, you don't own it. You've paid for the right to make limited use of it. It's an entirely different thing.
I'm a DM. If I subscribe, I have access to certain materials for me and for my players. From previous notes, I understand that I have "player slots" but I dont know how many. SO I assume that at least some of my players will need their own subscriptions.
I also assume that as a subscriber I have accees only to content I unlock by purchasing the digital books. The current content is free as it is now.
Something I didn't see mentioned in either the original announcement or subsequent conversation. The master Tier, at 6$/month, allows you to share your books with up to 12 players. However, I just saw this while clicking around in the campaign area:
"Campaign content sharing slots allow players in a campaign to use all of the DM's unlocked content to create, manage, and progress their characters. Players with subscriptions do not consume slots. "
I read that as meaning that the "Up to 12 players" bit is just free players. So you can have unlimited subscription players in your campaign? Or does a campaign have a player limit?
I believe the campaign limit is 12 players, but the emphasis was that these can all be free accounts (no subscription) and share in the unlocked content of a Master Tier DM.
Honestly, the pricing here makes it a flat out no from me and everyone I play with. None of us are willing to shell out again for book content we already own. A subscription I can get behind, but splat purchases anda sub? Not a chance.
But you don't need the sub for the things in the books, you need the sub to remove ads, share your content with others, and share the content you bought with others. You can buy the books digitally and use them without a sub.
Likewise, you can buy a sub and no books, getting the extra features of the sub without shelling the cash for the books.
I understand that, but I also know that I would expect all of that for a subscription. I also understand why D&D Beyond would want to price this way as a seller (since they didn't get money for my book purchases), but as a customer there's very little incentive for me to buy content I already have. It's the same for future purposes - would I have to buy two lots of Xanathar's? It's just not worth it.
That's the crux of it, it's just not worth it. Far better to just charge a higher sub or at least allow that as an option.
There is plenty of incentive, what do you mean? If you're saying you have no need for a digital version of the content that makes it a ton easier to use then why are you here? If you're saying you can manually recreate everything in homebrew then maybe it doesn't for you. However most people don't have that much free time.
Seeing WotC track record of digital tools I cannot buy the books again. I paid print, paid Fantasy Grounds and Roll20 (over $350us). I am not going to pay again for another tool. Why do I need to pay again to look at the options for a pally on the computer. Just let me buy a PDF and use it in any tool I want.
I know if you buy a VHS tape of a movie you dont get the DVD for free but i bught the DVD and i get recharged everytime i put it in as different DVD player
You've already bought them three times... why so mad now?
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Eshuvenniel Kazander Ravid,Valor Bard and Acolyte of the Goddess of Luck Caradoc Langham, Halfling Rogue - Lost Magics - Epic of Pre-made Proportions! I'm not looking for heaven or hell... just someone to listen to stories I tell...
Secondly, anything that has a copyright, with 1 product you buy 1 license. If you want more products you have to pay as many licenses. That is how things go.
I'm not sure you know what you're talking about. Maybe you do, and you're just not articulating it well. But here are some clarifications.
Within copyright law, the first sale doctrine means that you can do whatever you want with the copyrighted work you own, including resell it (without holding on to a copy) or make backup copies to preserve the work.
If you license something, no matter what it is, you don't own it. You've paid for the right to make limited use of it. It's an entirely different thing.
Thank you for the clarification. Yes, I meant how the license works.
I bought Overwatch on PC and would love to play with my PS4 friends, but Blizzard isn't reimbursing my copy, nor providing access to the same game on the console.
I'm not seeing why this is expected to be different with D&D Beyond, as it's a proven business practice across multiple products/genres.
That's fair until you look at Pathfinder. (I know.... Dirty word.....)
Pathfinder uses the OGL for 3.5, there is an OGL for 5e and a "Pathfinder" equivalent can be created. However the Pathfinder equivalent of 5e wouldn't include Volo's guide to monsters or Curse of Strahd, just like Pathfinder doesn't include Ebberron or Dragonlance. the free version of the DND Beyond application/website (The OGL, what Pathfinder was created from in 3.5), is freely available currently and will be after launch.
You missed the point.... You buy a hardcopy book for Pathfinder, you get a digital PDF. Boom. Or, you buy a less expensive PDF and forego the hardcopy.
Now, this isn't just a PDF so I'm all for having to pay the piper but to act like no other company offers digital content without additional licensing is incorrect. At least they're not charging full price here @ D&DB. That's been my grief with Fantasy Grounds and Roll20....
WotC doesn't do PDFs so I'm not sure how that makes any sense. D&D Beyond is not a PDF, it's a digital toolset. You also can't get Pathfinder Adventures for free in Roll20 or Fantasy Grounds. Also the Pathfinder market share is much lower than D&D so they need to do whatever they can to attract customers.
I frankly do not feel like we are disagreeing. I am not going to ask for a discount or free stuff. I know I will eventually get all the books. I suspect you will too, perhaps earlier than me.
The entire reason I came out of the shadows is not that I felt the price was bad, or to defend people who do not like the pricing, nor to defend those who are saying the pricing is okay. What I am here for. The only reason I am putting myself out here now, which is something I genuinely do not enjoy doing is that I see people attacking each other instead of listening. This is going to be my last post. I prefer to lurk than to be out in the open like this. So I guess I just hope someone takes something positive out of this. We are not words on a screen. We are people. We all have our own means and our own methods. We have limits and we have strengths. In the end, D&DB is something good, something made to bring people together and facilitate playing this game that we all care about. I just hope everyone tries to be their best selves. Goodbye, all and good luck on your rolls.
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GM of The Bonus Role - We are playing a 5E game set in my homebrew world of Audra check us out Sunday's at 10 AM CST and follow us at the following social media links. https://www.twitch.tv/thebonusrole @BonusRole
I have read some of the comments here, and it's a bit disheartening. That being said I will say my peace and move on.
As it stands I will not be able to afford the content on here. I too was hoping there would be a 15 dollar per month sub that would allow me access to all content, but if I stopped paying then I stopped getting access. Sort of like a pay to play MMORPG. I know it may seem weird, but 15 per month is more doable than 25-50 dollars per book.
That being said, I am happy that plans for this are moving forward. Thanks Curse!
I, on the other hand, see this as a problem. I called it so back in last years trend of $500 dollar PRG Kickstarter's that came out.Saying that the new standard for pricing is going to slowly become "Your group should share all the costs." It will and has begun to spawn a trend of increased prices in the industry as well as how do groups handle who gets what when it comes time for the group to go their separate ways.
Too rich for my blood. I really love the work that's been done so far but I really can't afford it. I might be one of those people who would want to try it a month or two but my heart wouldn't be in it and I know I'd just not afford it all in the end.
Really excited for this! I'm glad that the release date is so soon so I can start playing with it ASAP.
I am perfectly happy with the pricing model, as I actually expected everything to cost more. I was anticipating a $10 month sub for the DM tier, with each book costing around $50 to purchase. The fact that it is only going to cost me $6 per month as a DM, and I can get the 3 core books for only $60 total on launch week is awesome!
I'm a big fan of D&D Beyond as I have long wanted a digital toolset for my games. I've had to make do with other systems, and none of them quite worked the way I wanted. This is going to give me everything I need, and my players need, to have more fun at our table with less headache. A lot of my players are new to D&D, and thus having an easy way for them to level up and keep track of their character (with me able to keep tabs on them) is incredible.
I will say I have purchased all of the books already, and do not feel bad or ripped off in the slightest in having to purchase them again in a digital format. The digital version being offered here is so much more than just a PDF of the books, its an entire resource of helped links and content.
Really looking forward to launch day, and I would like to say a big Thank You to the entire D&D Beyond team at Curse for their amazing product!
We really need to see a campaign in progress using the tool(video or free campaign) So far I'm not too impressed that I would fork out another $60 to $75 (plus $6 subscription) just for running campaigns using digital copies of book I already own. Character builder/homebrew creator is nice and all that but came on!!!
I just want to jump in here and thank everyone on this thread for keeping things civil and presenting their perspectives on the discussion without resorting to personal insults or anything that requires a moderator to take action.
Compared to the discussion I am seeing elsewhere across the internet, that's pretty awesome.
Whether I agree with what you're saying, or not, thank you for being a cool bunch of people. <3
Grant K. Smith
A+, Network+, MCP x 2, BSIT/VC, MIS
Software Engineer & Dungeon Master
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." - J. R. R. Tolkien
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup" - Anonymous
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I'm not sure I understand the pricing.
I'm a DM. If I subscribe, I have access to certain materials for me and for my players. From previous notes, I understand that I have "player slots" but I dont know how many. SO I assume that at least some of my players will need their own subscriptions.
I also assume that as a subscriber I have accees only to content I unlock by purchasing the digital books. The current content is free as it is now.
Are these safe assumptions?
Yeah...It's a good news for me :)
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You've already bought them three times... why so mad now?
Eshuvenniel Kazander Ravid, Valor Bard and Acolyte of the Goddess of Luck
Caradoc Langham, Halfling Rogue - Lost Magics - Epic of Pre-made Proportions!
I'm not looking for heaven or hell... just someone to listen to stories I tell...
@JRedmond
I frankly do not feel like we are disagreeing. I am not going to ask for a discount or free stuff. I know I will eventually get all the books. I suspect you will too, perhaps earlier than me.
The entire reason I came out of the shadows is not that I felt the price was bad, or to defend people who do not like the pricing, nor to defend those who are saying the pricing is okay. What I am here for. The only reason I am putting myself out here now, which is something I genuinely do not enjoy doing is that I see people attacking each other instead of listening. This is going to be my last post. I prefer to lurk than to be out in the open like this. So I guess I just hope someone takes something positive out of this. We are not words on a screen. We are people. We all have our own means and our own methods. We have limits and we have strengths. In the end, D&DB is something good, something made to bring people together and facilitate playing this game that we all care about. I just hope everyone tries to be their best selves. Goodbye, all and good luck on your rolls.
GM of The Bonus Role - We are playing a 5E game set in my homebrew world of Audra check us out Sunday's at 10 AM CST and follow us at the following social media links.
https://www.twitch.tv/thebonusrole
@BonusRole
I have read some of the comments here, and it's a bit disheartening. That being said I will say my peace and move on.
As it stands I will not be able to afford the content on here. I too was hoping there would be a 15 dollar per month sub that would allow me access to all content, but if I stopped paying then I stopped getting access. Sort of like a pay to play MMORPG. I know it may seem weird, but 15 per month is more doable than 25-50 dollars per book.
That being said, I am happy that plans for this are moving forward. Thanks Curse!
I, on the other hand, see this as a problem. I called it so back in last years trend of $500 dollar PRG Kickstarter's that came out.Saying that the new standard for pricing is going to slowly become "Your group should share all the costs." It will and has begun to spawn a trend of increased prices in the industry as well as how do groups handle who gets what when it comes time for the group to go their separate ways.
Too rich for my blood. I really love the work that's been done so far but I really can't afford it. I might be one of those people who would want to try it a month or two but my heart wouldn't be in it and I know I'd just not afford it all in the end.
Really excited for this! I'm glad that the release date is so soon so I can start playing with it ASAP.
I am perfectly happy with the pricing model, as I actually expected everything to cost more. I was anticipating a $10 month sub for the DM tier, with each book costing around $50 to purchase. The fact that it is only going to cost me $6 per month as a DM, and I can get the 3 core books for only $60 total on launch week is awesome!
I'm a big fan of D&D Beyond as I have long wanted a digital toolset for my games. I've had to make do with other systems, and none of them quite worked the way I wanted. This is going to give me everything I need, and my players need, to have more fun at our table with less headache. A lot of my players are new to D&D, and thus having an easy way for them to level up and keep track of their character (with me able to keep tabs on them) is incredible.
I will say I have purchased all of the books already, and do not feel bad or ripped off in the slightest in having to purchase them again in a digital format. The digital version being offered here is so much more than just a PDF of the books, its an entire resource of helped links and content.
Really looking forward to launch day, and I would like to say a big Thank You to the entire D&D Beyond team at Curse for their amazing product!
We really need to see a campaign in progress using the tool(video or free campaign)
So far I'm not too impressed that I would fork out another $60 to $75 (plus $6 subscription) just for running campaigns using digital copies of book I already own. Character builder/homebrew creator is nice and all that but came on!!!
So if you buy a book digitally and you let your subscription expire, do you still have access to your books?
I just want to jump in here and thank everyone on this thread for keeping things civil and presenting their perspectives on the discussion without resorting to personal insults or anything that requires a moderator to take action.
Compared to the discussion I am seeing elsewhere across the internet, that's pretty awesome.
Whether I agree with what you're saying, or not, thank you for being a cool bunch of people. <3
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