Do it before they fall. Unless you're arguing that there isn't a point in time when they're 5ft up, then that is the exact time you pick to use your bonus action.
That’s right. Immediately. They’re up. {insert BA Here} They’re down. Now go ahead with your bonus action.
Bonus Actions happen on your turn when you choose for them to. Put it between the up and the down.
Falls are “instantaneous” per RAW. That is a specific rule which overrules the general of bonus action happening when you choose. There is no time between the up and the down. This is not street fighter or mortal combat on an Xbox. You can’t juggle people.
This is not only false, but doesn't make any sense. You absolutely can do this. And nothing about the fall being instantaneous prevents you from being able to do something before they fall.
Things can trigger mid fall anyway. We know this can happen because feather fall exists. Your assertion that instantaneous prevents something form happening concurrently is incorrect.
Do it before they fall. Unless you're arguing that there isn't a point in time when they're 5ft up, then that is the exact time you pick to use your bonus action.
That’s right. Immediately. They’re up. {insert BA Here} They’re down. Now go ahead with your bonus action.
Bonus Actions happen on your turn when you choose for them to. Put it between the up and the down.
Falls are “instantaneous” per RAW. That is a specific rule which overrules the general of bonus action happening when you choose. There is no time between the up and the down. This is not street fighter or mortal combat on an Xbox. You can’t juggle people.
This is not only false, but doesn't make any sense. You absolutely can do this. And nothing about the fall being instantaneous prevents you from being able to do something before they fall.
Do it before they fall. Unless you're arguing that there isn't a point in time when they're 5ft up, then that is the exact time you pick to use your bonus action.
That’s right. Immediately. They’re up. {insert BA Here} They’re down. Now go ahead with your bonus action.
Bonus Actions happen on your turn when you choose for them to. Put it between the up and the down.
Falls are “instantaneous” per RAW. That is a specific rule which overrules the general of bonus action happening when you choose. There is no time between the up and the down. This is not street fighter or mortal combat on an Xbox. You can’t juggle people.
This is not only false, but doesn't make any sense. You absolutely can do this. And nothing about the fall being instantaneous prevents you from being able to do something before they fall.
Maybe double check what instantaneous means.
Right so you rule feather fall has no effect because there is no such thing as falling creatures since their fall is instantaneous and nothing can happen while they're falling? Neato.
Right so you rule feather fall has no effect because there is no such thing as falling creatures since their fall is instantaneous and nothing can happen while they're falling? Neato.
Feather Fall has an effect on a fall as it's specifically designed to interrupt it, being a reaction and an instant response to it, directly changing the outcome of it.
Right so you rule feather fall has no effect because there is no such thing as falling creatures since their fall is instantaneous and nothing can happen while they're falling? Neato.
Feather Fall has an effect on a fall as it's specifically designed to interrupt it, being a reaction and an instant response to it, directly changing the outcome of it.
Right, you and I both agree that something can happen in response to a creature falling. That there is some moment in time there to act. Even if just an instant.
Bonus Actions happen when you want them to on your turn. Pick that instant.
Right so you rule feather fall has no effect because there is no such thing as falling creatures since their fall is instantaneous and nothing can happen while they're falling? Neato.
Feather Fall has an effect on a fall as it's specifically designed to interrupt it, being a reaction and an instant response to it, directly changing the outcome of it.
Right, you and I both agree that something can happen in response to a creature falling. That there is some moment in time there to act. Even if just an instant.
Bonus Actions happen when you want them to on your turn. Pick that instant.
Feather fall proves my point. It creates an exception to the general rule. The spell needs language in it which says it can interrupt a fall. It specifically says that it interrupts a fall. Nothing else does so. If it were possible to interrupt a fall generally, feather fall would not need to specify that it can. It is, yet another, specific rule overriding a general rule. In general, falls are instantaneous. Feather fall has language that overrides that rule. Bonus actions do not.
Right so you rule feather fall has no effect because there is no such thing as falling creatures since their fall is instantaneous and nothing can happen while they're falling? Neato.
Feather Fall has an effect on a fall as it's specifically designed to interrupt it, being a reaction and an instant response to it, directly changing the outcome of it.
Right, you and I both agree that something can happen in response to a creature falling. That there is some moment in time there to act. Even if just an instant.
Bonus Actions happen when you want them to on your turn. Pick that instant.
You cannot take an action or bonus action during an instantaneous event such as a fall. Otherwise anyone could interrupt instantaneous spells with an action or bonus action. The only reason Feather Fall can be used during a fall is because it specifically has a trigger and an effect on a fall. Both a fall and a reaction happen in an instant but in case of Feather Fall, it's meant to interrupt a fall and specifically change it's course.
Right so you rule feather fall has no effect because there is no such thing as falling creatures since their fall is instantaneous and nothing can happen while they're falling? Neato.
Feather Fall has an effect on a fall as it's specifically designed to interrupt it, being a reaction and an instant response to it, directly changing the outcome of it.
Right, you and I both agree that something can happen in response to a creature falling. That there is some moment in time there to act. Even if just an instant.
Bonus Actions happen when you want them to on your turn. Pick that instant.
Feather fall proves my point. It creates an exception to the general rule. The spell needs language in it which says it can interrupt a fall. It specifically says that it interrupts a fall. Nothing else does so. If it were possible to interrupt a fall generally, feather fall would not need to specify that it can. It is, yet another, specific rule overriding a general rule. In general, falls are instantaneous. Feather fall has language that overrides that rule. Bonus actions do not.
No, your argument is that there is no such thing as a moment in time that a creature is "falling" because the fall is instantaneous.
Except.
feather fallSpecifically targets falling creatures, and it slows their descent. So you're wrong on both accounts. There is a point in time when a creature is falling. And their fall has a speed, which the spell can reduce.
Either way. You Use your Bonus Action before the fall. Not during it.
Rate of Falling which explicitly states that "falling assumes that a creature immediately drops the entire distance when it falls." That said it does provide math for rate of falling, which is 500 ft per round or 83.33 ft per second meaning that it would take 0.06 seconds or 60 milliseconds, the average human reaction time is 150 - 200ms for comparison. Ultimately this would be a DM ruling which Rule of Cool is more likely to cover than any RAW/RAI reading of the rules.
I think the biggest issue people are having with this is that if you were able to move a creature 10 feet in the air, they would take 1d6 falling damage and fall prone. I dont see a problem with having to take 2 feats, and use a bonus action that has a save associated to deal an extra 1d6 damage and knock a creature prone. There are much easier ways to take advantage of falling damage*.
I also really enjoy the idea of telekinesising someone up then baseball hitting them with a maul out 5 feet.
* 4 Elements Monk, Fist of the Unbroken Air lets you push a creature up to 20 feet away from you. Up is away. - 4 Elements Monk, Water Whip lets you pull a creature 25 feet towards you. Have flight and pull them up - Psi Warrior Fighter Telekentic Movement move a creature 30 feet up and drop them - Any number of spells that allow for forced movement of any kind
You cannot take an action or bonus action during an instantaneous event such as a fall.
Big if true. Got rules text saying that? I have rule text saying otherwise.
"You choose when to take a bonus action during your turn"
The quote doesn't say that. Got rule text saying you can use an action or bonus action to interrupt something instantaneous?
"You choose when"
Unless your argument is that the event happens outside the flow of time, there is a time when the target is 5ft off the ground after being knocked up by crusher. You get to choose when the bonus action happens. Choose that moment in time.
You cannot take an action or bonus action during an instantaneous event such as a fall.
Big if true. Got rules text saying that? I have rule text saying otherwise.
"You choose when to take a bonus action during your turn"
The quote doesn't say that. Got rule text saying you can use an action or bonus action to interrupt something instantaneous?
"You choose when"
Unless your argument is that the event happens outside the flow of time, there is a time when the target is 5ft off the ground after being knocked up by crusher. You get to choose when the bonus action happens. Choose that moment in time.
Great! I choose 100 years ago, before this temple was looted! <uses Fast Hands bonus action to be the one who looted the temple 100 years ago>
Presumably you agree that would not work, so presumably you agree there are limits on that 'when.' In the middle of an instantaneous action is arguably a similarly non-choose-able time.
You cannot take an action or bonus action during an instantaneous event such as a fall.
Big if true. Got rules text saying that? I have rule text saying otherwise.
"You choose when to take a bonus action during your turn"
The quote doesn't say that. Got rule text saying you can use an action or bonus action to interrupt something instantaneous?
"You choose when"
Unless your argument is that the event happens outside the flow of time, there is a time when the target is 5ft off the ground after being knocked up by crusher. You get to choose when the bonus action happens. Choose that moment in time.
Great! I choose 100 years ago, before this temple was looted! <uses Fast Hands bonus action to be the one who looted the temple 100 years ago>
Presumably you agree that would not work, so presumably you agree there are limits on that 'when.' In the middle of an instantaneous action is arguably a similarly non-choose-able time.
"during your turn"
Right. During my turn, I choose to take this bonus action 100 years ago. It is ""You choose when to take a bonus action during your turn" not ""You choose when during your turn to take a bonus action during your turn."
Even limiting it to having to take place during your turn, though, you could have it happen simultaneously with something else you are doing, resulting in impossible situations where the character is literally doing two contradictory things simultaneously.
Right. Sure.
Look, if you are a DM and feel the need to go to this length to prevent a combo a player of yours is using you're not acting in good faith. They're dedicating weapon type, 2 feat selections, their action and their bonus action to do what? 1d6 and prone? And you want to stop that by rules lawyering against your players? You control everything in the game except their character and their turn. That is their time. And they get to choose when things happen on that turn. You don't. If you are unsatisfied with controlling everything else and feel the need to start controlling your player's turns too, you should take a break as reevaluate why you're DMing. Because you've forgotten the whole reason you're there, to tell a story cooperatively with friends.
Not because it's the player's turn that it can do anything it wants. The PC can take a bonus action while a creature is falling. But the DM saying that the creature falls to the ground before the bonus action take place is not controlling the player's turn, it's called adjucating and it's well within it's role to do so.
Not because it's the player's turn that it can do anything it wants. The PC can take a bonus action while a creature is falling. But the DM saying that the creature falls to the ground before the bonus action take place is not controlling the player's turn, it's called adjucating and it's well within it's role to do so.
Before.
An indicator of timing.
The rules say: "You choose when to take a bonus action during your turn".
The rules tell us that the player controls the timing on their turn.
If you try to control the timing of the player's turn you're operating against the RAW and against the purview of what a DM is and does.
This is not only false, but doesn't make any sense. You absolutely can do this. And nothing about the fall being instantaneous prevents you from being able to do something before they fall.
Things can trigger mid fall anyway. We know this can happen because feather fall exists. Your assertion that instantaneous prevents something form happening concurrently is incorrect.
I'm probably laughing.
Maybe double check what instantaneous means.
Right so you rule feather fall has no effect because there is no such thing as falling creatures since their fall is instantaneous and nothing can happen while they're falling? Neato.
I'm probably laughing.
Feather Fall has an effect on a fall as it's specifically designed to interrupt it, being a reaction and an instant response to it, directly changing the outcome of it.
Right, you and I both agree that something can happen in response to a creature falling. That there is some moment in time there to act. Even if just an instant.
Bonus Actions happen when you want them to on your turn. Pick that instant.
I'm probably laughing.
Feather fall proves my point. It creates an exception to the general rule. The spell needs language in it which says it can interrupt a fall. It specifically says that it interrupts a fall. Nothing else does so. If it were possible to interrupt a fall generally, feather fall would not need to specify that it can. It is, yet another, specific rule overriding a general rule. In general, falls are instantaneous. Feather fall has language that overrides that rule. Bonus actions do not.
You cannot take an action or bonus action during an instantaneous event such as a fall. Otherwise anyone could interrupt instantaneous spells with an action or bonus action. The only reason Feather Fall can be used during a fall is because it specifically has a trigger and an effect on a fall. Both a fall and a reaction happen in an instant but in case of Feather Fall, it's meant to interrupt a fall and specifically change it's course.
No, your argument is that there is no such thing as a moment in time that a creature is "falling" because the fall is instantaneous.
Except.
feather fallSpecifically targets falling creatures, and it slows their descent. So you're wrong on both accounts. There is a point in time when a creature is falling. And their fall has a speed, which the spell can reduce.
Either way. You Use your Bonus Action before the fall. Not during it.
I'm probably laughing.
Big if true. Got rules text saying that? I have rule text saying otherwise.
I'm probably laughing.
Rate of Falling which explicitly states that "falling assumes that a creature immediately drops the entire distance when it falls." That said it does provide math for rate of falling, which is 500 ft per round or 83.33 ft per second meaning that it would take 0.06 seconds or 60 milliseconds, the average human reaction time is 150 - 200ms for comparison. Ultimately this would be a DM ruling which Rule of Cool is more likely to cover than any RAW/RAI reading of the rules.
Note: Reaction time is largely irrelevant when a chain of actions is planned ahead of time.
If you are trained well enough to know where someone is going to be before they get there, then both actions will overlap in their execution.
I think the biggest issue people are having with this is that if you were able to move a creature 10 feet in the air, they would take 1d6 falling damage and fall prone. I dont see a problem with having to take 2 feats, and use a bonus action that has a save associated to deal an extra 1d6 damage and knock a creature prone. There are much easier ways to take advantage of falling damage*.
I also really enjoy the idea of telekinesising someone up then baseball hitting them with a maul out 5 feet.
* 4 Elements Monk, Fist of the Unbroken Air lets you push a creature up to 20 feet away from you. Up is away. - 4 Elements Monk, Water Whip lets you pull a creature 25 feet towards you. Have flight and pull them up - Psi Warrior Fighter Telekentic Movement move a creature 30 feet up and drop them - Any number of spells that allow for forced movement of any kind
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"Play the game however you want to play the game. After all, your fun doesn't threaten my fun."
The quote doesn't say that. Got rule text saying you can use an action or bonus action to interrupt something instantaneous?
"You choose when"
Unless your argument is that the event happens outside the flow of time, there is a time when the target is 5ft off the ground after being knocked up by crusher. You get to choose when the bonus action happens. Choose that moment in time.
I'm probably laughing.
The Developper disagrees with you. See Shield Master Q&A for more details.
I'm probably laughing.
"during your turn"
I'm probably laughing.
Right. Sure.
Look, if you are a DM and feel the need to go to this length to prevent a combo a player of yours is using you're not acting in good faith. They're dedicating weapon type, 2 feat selections, their action and their bonus action to do what? 1d6 and prone? And you want to stop that by rules lawyering against your players? You control everything in the game except their character and their turn. That is their time. And they get to choose when things happen on that turn. You don't. If you are unsatisfied with controlling everything else and feel the need to start controlling your player's turns too, you should take a break as reevaluate why you're DMing. Because you've forgotten the whole reason you're there, to tell a story cooperatively with friends.
I'm probably laughing.
Not because it's the player's turn that it can do anything it wants. The PC can take a bonus action while a creature is falling. But the DM saying that the creature falls to the ground before the bonus action take place is not controlling the player's turn, it's called adjucating and it's well within it's role to do so.
Before.
An indicator of timing.
The rules say: "You choose when to take a bonus action during your turn".
The rules tell us that the player controls the timing on their turn.
If you try to control the timing of the player's turn you're operating against the RAW and against the purview of what a DM is and does.
I'm probably laughing.