Wild Shape and Unarmed Strikes

Hello All,

I am looking at a possible Moon Druid 2/Shadow Monk X build, but three things are not 100% clear to me.  Any clarification, with justification, anyone could offer would be welcome.

• Do Unarmed Strikes while in Wild Shape use the proficiency bonus of the beast or the character?
  • I know that they would use the STR or DEX of the creature, but what about the proficiency bonus? 
  • I believe that it would be the proficiency bonus of the character, since you generally take the higher of the two, and because you retain the benefit of any feature from your class, which would include your proficiency bonus
• Do beasts without Multiattack use the Attack action when using natural weapons?
  • I know that beasts with Multiattack use the Multiattack action, but what about the attacks of beasts that do not have Multiattack?
  • I presume that it the Attack action, as that is the standard way to make an Attack and the Attack action is available to all creatures
    • this matters for Extra Attack and Flurry of Blows
    • I recognize that you cannot use the Martial Arts bonus attack if the attack is made with natural weapons, as they are not Monk weapons
• Do Natural Weapon Attacks count as Melee Weapon Attacks for the purposes of Stunning Strike?
  • I am pretty confident they do, because of the wording on melee and ranged attacks in the Monster Manual
  • We also know that Unarmed Attacks count as Melee Weapon Attacks for the purposes of Stunning Strike

Looking forward to hearing from you all.

A Wild Shape Druid use the beast's proficiency bonus when using attack's action in it's statblock so while not specifically mentioned, it should also apply to unarmed strike.

When a monster takes its action, it can choose from the options in the Actions section of its stat block or use one of the actions available to all creatures, such as the Dash or Hide action, as described in the Player’s Handbook. This would include taking the Attack action to make unarmed strike or other improvised attack.

Melee attack with natural weapon qualify for Stunning Strike.

When a Druid wild shaped as a Giant Toad takes the Attack action, does it perform Bite?
And since Bite isn't a weapon attack, does it therefore constitute an Unarmed Strike?

Quote from Natrel >>

When a Druid wild shaped as a Giant Toad takes the Attack action, does it perform Bite?
And since Bite isn't a weapon attack, does it therefore constitute an Unarmed Strike?

 IMO, yes, but the debate about natural weapons (it doesn't seem to be a term anymore) and Unarmed Strikes came up in some recent threads:

• 2024 wildshape - do you gain multiattack?
• Are "natural weapons" still a thing in 2024?
• Wild Shape, Polymorph, Unarmed Strikes and Attacks of Opportunity
• From comment#37: Natural Weapons Vs Unarmed Strikes
• So monsters can't make Attacks of opportunity

There are still some misnomers about wild shape out there. TarodNet has compiled the threads discussing some, but it might be useful to have links for:

• Wild shape itself
• Multiattack for monsters has new rules

So a note about wild shape from those rules: The only thing that mentions using your proficiency bonus is skill and saving throw proficiency that you already had: "You also retain your skill and saving throw proficiencies and use your Proficiency Bonus for them, in addition to gaining the proficiencies of the creature." So nothing else uses your PB, even proficiencies you gain from the creature. This goes to one of my fundamental ideas about wild shape: you really aren't meant to recalculate bonuses you might use from the printed stat block.

You should doublecheck the new Multiattack rules: it is now much more like extra attack where it can be used as part of the attack action. It looks like your ideas are based off of the 2014 understanding of that feature.

Edit: I just realized that the OP I was referring to was probably written before the MM release, which does change the analysis about multiattack.

Isn't the very concept of Proficiency synonymous with using your PB for it?

 This bonus is applied to a d20 Test when the creature has proficiency in a skill, in a saving throw, or with an item that the creature uses to make the d20 Test. The bonus is also used for spell attacks and for calculating the DC of saving throws for spells.

It doesn't need to be stated in the Wild Shape rules. It's already mentioned as a general rule.

Your proficiency bonus is a game statistic replaced by the beasts, except where noted. The only place that indicates you use your proficiency bonus with anything while wild shaped (and not the one in the stat block) is this single sentence discussing saving throws and skills that you already possessed.

Yeah, so what? Proficiency rules apply to all stat blocks.

I'm not sure what you are suggesting, but what I'm saying (in reference to the OP) is that the proficiency bonus that you use to calculate anything while wild shaped would be the one that the wild shape rules tell you to use: you use the beast's with an exception for the skill and saving throw proficiencies that you retain use your proficiency bonus.

Oh I see what you're getting at now. Yeah I guess that makes sense. Wild Shape rules don't explicitly says that you keep your PB, only the cases in which you can use it.

Natural weapons are indeed not a thing anymore. What were natural weapons are now just standard unarmed strikes, from as far as I've seen

Quote from SretnuhTV >>

Natural weapons are indeed not a thing anymore. What were natural weapons are now just standard unarmed strikes, from as far as I've seen

 I agree. I've only found "natural weapon" in Alter Self and I think it's just a description. They are related to Unarmed Strike, mechanically speaking.

Quote from SretnuhTV >>

Natural weapons are indeed not a thing anymore. What were natural weapons are now just standard unarmed strikes, from as far as I've seen

Unarmed Strikes are a specific mechanic with a specific formula for attack rolls and fixed damage, and that can be swapped with a grapple or a shove. Anything that is not exactly this mechanic is not an unarmed strike.

Quote from Natrel >>

Unarmed Strikes are a specific mechanic with a specific formula for attack rolls and fixed damage, and that can be swapped with a grapple or a shove. Anything that is not exactly this mechanic is not an unarmed strike.

It seems that you misunderstood what he said. "Natural Weapons" was a concept that they did away with and thus the monsters that had "natural weapons" in the 2014 rules set does not have that in the 2024 rules, they instead have features that gives them some sort of attack roll. And most often that attack roll would be made as an unarmed strike by taking the attack action.

Quote from Tarod_ >>

Quote from Natrel >>

When a Druid wild shaped as a Giant Toad takes the Attack action, does it perform Bite?
And since Bite isn't a weapon attack, does it therefore constitute an Unarmed Strike?

 IMO, yes, but the debate about natural weapons (it doesn't seem to be a term anymore) and Unarmed Strikes came up in some recent threads:

• 2024 wildshape - do you gain multiattack?
• Are "natural weapons" still a thing in 2024?
• Wild Shape, Polymorph, Unarmed Strikes and Attacks of Opportunity
• From comment#37: Natural Weapons Vs Unarmed Strikes
• So monsters can't make Attacks of opportunity

 Good moment to update this old list. After the release of the 5.5e SAC, new threads about "natural weapons" and Unarmed Strikes new threads have been created with fresh answers and rulings:

- Wildshape and Monk
- Grappling using multiattack in animal form D&D 2024 
- moon druid animal form grappling 

Quote from Thezzaruz >>

It seems that you misunderstood what he said. "Natural Weapons" was a concept that they did away with and thus the monsters that had "natural weapons" in the 2014 rules set does not have that in the 2024 rules, they instead have features that gives them some sort of attack roll. And most often that attack roll would be made as an unarmed strike by taking the attack action.

I might have said that last year, but today it's clear to me that there is no rule that allows any monster's attack to be considered an Unarmed Strike, maybe even if the monster's attack in question is literally called "Unarmed Strike". Monster attacks obey the rules of their description, but they're not Unarmed Strikes.

Unarmed Strikes are defined as such:

Instead of using a weapon to make a melee attack, you can use a punch, kick, headbutt, or similar forceful blow. In game terms, this is an Unarmed Strike—a melee attack that involves you using your body to damage, grapple, or shove a target within 5 feet of you.

Whenever you use your Unarmed Strike, choose one of the following options for its effect.

Damage. You make an attack roll against the target. Your bonus to the roll equals your Strength modifier plus your Proficiency Bonus. On a hit, the target takes Bludgeoning damage equal to 1 plus your Strength modifier.

Grapple. The target must succeed on a Strength or Dexterity saving throw (it chooses which), or it has the Grappled condition. The DC for the saving throw and any escape attempts equals 8 plus your Strength modifier and Proficiency Bonus. This grapple is possible only if the target is no more than one size larger than you and if you have a hand free to grab it.

Shove. The target must succeed on a Strength or Dexterity saving throw (it chooses which), or you either push it 5 feet away or cause it to have the Prone condition. The DC for the saving throw equals 8 plus your Strength modifier and Proficiency Bonus. This shove is possible only if the target is no more than one size larger than you.

I would also argue that the devs probably never intended monsters to even be able to replace any of their Rend, Bite, and such attacks with Unarmed Strikes at all.

@Natrel I think that interpretation (which I actually agree with) is also shared in some of the threads I linked. Examples:

Quote from AntonSirius >>

[...] An Unarmed Strike is a separate type of attack from anything listed in a monster stat block

Per the MM:

Actions

A monster can take the actions in this section or take one of the actions available to all creatures, as described in the Player’s Handbook.

 
That list, of course, includes

Attack: Attack with a weapon or an Unarmed Strike.

 

A Claw attack and an Unarmed Strike may both be melee attacks, but that doesn't mean a Claw attack is an Unarmed Strike

Quote from Plaguescarred >>

When an Ape takes the Attack Action, either it;

makes two Fist attacks.

OR

make one attack roll with a weapon or an Unarmed Strike, which may include Grappling. 

Quote from Jaysburn >>

1. Can I use my Bonus Action to make an Unarmed Strike? 

Yes, though some have argued that NPCs can't make Unarmed Strikes, so check with your DM. I'd say these people are wrong, but I've seen the argument out there.
Anyway, you maintain your class features when wild shaped, meaning you maintain the Monk Martial Arts' Bonus Unarmed Strike feature.

2. What is the damage of that Unarmed Strike? 

1d6 (your Martial Arts die) + 4 (the Saber-Toothed Tiger's Strength modifer).

3. Can I make Opportunity Attacks? 

Yes. All creatures can make Opportunity Attacks.

4. What is the damage of my Opportunity Attack?

2d6 + 4, as you'd be using the Saber-Toothed Tiger's Rend attack.