New goodberry spell

These are the arguments that absolutely make me loathe how the new rules are written. If two people cannot agree on RAW then the RAW are ambiguous. There just seem to be so many instances of it in the 2024 set.

However, it's pretty obvious that RAI, the dang spell is not meant for reviving downed characters. But by all means, twist the poorly written rules into whatever tiny advantage you might be able to get to not have to use a different resource.

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5 >>

Yes, a Rabbit Hop can only be performed as a Bonus Action. That Bonus Action allows the Harengon to jump. This does not mean that the Harengon is now required to use a Bonus Action to jump.

The Spell says that eating a berry provides healing. It is not explicitly tied to the Bonus Action. You can make the argument that it is implied or that it is RAI that a Bonus Action is required and that's fine at your table.

For anyone who wants it to work per RAW, you can take the separation of the Bonus Action and the effect of eating the berry to rule that any eating of the berry (including being fed a berry) provides the healing.

If you are counting on this tactic, talk to your DM.

 

 Rabbit Hop is not a Jump, it is a jump. A Jump is a kind of movement tied to your Speed. Rabbit Hop has no ties to mechanical Jump or movement of any kind outside the need for a Harengon to not have a Speed of 0. You can use all your Speed but the last 5ft and you can then do a Rabbit Hop equal to 5 times your Proficiency Bonus after. 

Since there are no Free Actions in the 2024 rules, you have no means to eat the Goodberry outside the type of Action that the spell explicitly provided:

A creature can take a Bonus Action to eat one berry...

This is the explicit you claim doesn't exist. If you want to ignore the rules, by all means, play D&D as you wish. 

The Action that you are trying to say you can eat the berry with doesn't exist in this revision of the rules, as far as I have seen. Even if it did, an Unconscious creature cannot use it anyway. 

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5 >>

Most Bonus Actions are new activities that you could not otherwise do, such as teleporting via Misty Step. For those activities, you cannot substitute another action type for the Bonus Action.

 So if you insist that a Bonus Action is not needed to get the healing or the nourishment, what does eating the berry with a Bonus Action do?

Quote from Niftykev >>

However, it's pretty obvious that RAI, the dang spell is not meant for reviving downed characters. But by all means, twist the poorly written rules into whatever tiny advantage you might be able to get to not have to use a different resource.

No advantage is sought other than justifying reviving allies like someone mentioned on page 1.

Quote from Erik_Soong >>

Rabbit Hop is not a Jump, it is a jump. A Jump is a kind of movement tied to your Speed. Rabbit Hop has no ties to mechanical Jump or movement of any kind outside the need for a Harengon to not have a Speed of 0. You can use all your Speed but the last 5ft and you can then do a Rabbit Hop equal to 5 times your Proficiency Bonus after. 

Rabbit Hop: As a bonus action, you can jump a number of feet ...

Rabbit Hop is, in fact, a jump. It has details that supersede the specifics of the general jump rules, but it is still a jump and some aspects of the jump rules will still apply. Also, you do not need to reserve 5 feet of movement in order to make a Rabbit Hop. Having 0 movement left is not the same as having a speed of 0. You can use all of your movement and still Rabbit Hop unrestricted.

Again, having the ability to jump as a Bonus Action does not force the Harengon to use a Bonus Action for every jump. Being able to eat a berry as a Bonus Action does not require a Bonus Action to eat.

Quote from Erik_Soong >>

Since there are no Free Actions in the 2024 rules, you have no means to eat the Goodberry outside the type of Action that the spell explicitly provided:

A creature can take a Bonus Action to eat one berry...

This is the explicit you claim doesn't exist. If you want to ignore the rules, by all means, play D&D as you wish. 

The Action that you are trying to say you can eat the berry with doesn't exist in this revision of the rules, as far as I have seen. Even if it did, an Unconscious creature cannot use it anyway. 

The fact that eating is not present explicitly in the non-exhaustive summary for each action means that either eating (whether a berry or a ration), is covered by one of the actions and is not explicitly stated or takes longer than one action. Or are you proposition that characters cannot eat because the action does not exist?

Administering First Aid is a single Help action (which in itself is wild, but this isn't CPR simulator). 

Quote from Wysperra >>

So if you insist that a Bonus Action is not needed to get the healing or the nourishment, what does eating the berry with a Bonus Action do?

Eat one berry safely in a combat situation.

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5 >>

Quote from Wysperra >>

So if you insist that a Bonus Action is not needed to get the healing or the nourishment, what does eating the berry with a Bonus Action do?

Eat one berry safely in a combat situation.

 So you use your Bonus Action to eat the berry and nothing happens? Why would anybody do that? What would be the point of making that a feature of the spell?

Quote from Wysperra >>

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5 >>

Quote from Wysperra >>

So if you insist that a Bonus Action is not needed to get the healing or the nourishment, what does eating the berry with a Bonus Action do?

Eat one berry safely in a combat situation.

 So you use your Bonus Action to eat the berry and nothing happens? Why would anybody do that? What would be the point of making that a feature of the spell?

 That’s useless. If you don’t give the hp boost, what’s the point?

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5 >>

A Harengon can Jump as a Bonus Action. That doesn't prevent them from jumping normally. Being able to eat as a Bonus Action does not prevent you from eating normally.

Most Bonus Actions are new activities that you could not otherwise do, such as teleporting via Misty Step. For those activities, you cannot substitute another action type for the Bonus Action.

 The trait Rabbit Hop never uses your movement to jump even if you can normally do so, this special action always takes a Bonus Action to jump.

Just like eating doesn't uses any ressource to do so, this special action in Goodberry always takes a Bonus Action to eat.

No general rule let you eat a Goodberry  with a Free Item Interaction or action. It's a specific action in the spell that you otherwise don't have.

If they didn't intended a creature to take a Bonus Action to eat one Goodberry , they would have simply said; 

Ten berries appear in your hand and are infused with magic for the duration. A creature can take a Bonus Action to eat one berry. Eating a berry restores 1 Hit Point, and the berry provides enough nourishment to sustain a creature for one day.

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5>>

Rabbit Hop: As a bonus action, you can jump a number of feet ...

Rabbit Hop is, in fact, a jump. It has details that supersede the specifics of the general jump rules, but it is still a jump and some aspects of the jump rules will still apply. Also, you do not need to reserve 5 feet of movement in order to make a Rabbit Hop. Having 0 movement left is not the same as having a speed of 0. You can use all of your movement and still Rabbit Hop unrestricted.

Again, having the ability to jump as a Bonus Action does not force the Harengon to use a Bonus Action for every jump. Being able to eat a berry as a Bonus Action does not require a Bonus Action to eat.

The fact that eating is not present explicitly in the non-exhaustive summary for each action means that either eating (whether a berry or a ration), is covered by one of the actions and is not explicitly stated or takes longer than one action. Or are you proposition that characters cannot eat because the action does not exist?

Administering First Aid is a single Help action (which in itself is wild, but this isn't CPR simulator). 

 

You cannot Rabbit Hop with any Action other than the Bonus Action it states you can use. The same text that is used for Goodberry. Do you think you can use Rabbit Hob as part of your movement? I think you are beginning to paint yourself into a corner here. 

No one said or implied that a Bonus Action is required for every jump. Only the jump as defined in the Rabbit Hop Trait requires the Bonus Action to use.

We are not talking about RAI on this forum. RAW is all that is being discussed. Do you see eating as an option in any of the available Actions? If you want to create Free Actions for the revised rules so you can eat or use Goodberries more freely, please feel free to house rule it. 

The Help Action states the following:

When you take the Help action, you do one of the following.

Assist an Ability Check. Choose one of your skill or tool proficiencies and one ally who is near enough for you to assist verbally or physically when they make an ability check. That ally has Advantage on the next ability check they make with the chosen skill or tool. This benefit expires if the ally doesn’t use it before the start of your next turn. The DM has final say on whether your assistance is possible.

Assist an Attack Roll. You momentarily distract an enemy within 5 feet of you, giving Advantage to the next attack roll by one of your allies against that enemy. This benefit expires at the start of your next turn.

Your comment about administering first aid seems like a Red Herring to me, but nothing about it actually invalidates anything I said about the Help Action. Administering first aid is not actually a Help Action, but an Action to perform a Medicine Check. 

Quote from Erik_Soong >>

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5>>

Rabbit Hop: As a bonus action, you can jump a number of feet ...

Rabbit Hop is, in fact, a jump. It has details that supersede the specifics of the general jump rules, but it is still a jump and some aspects of the jump rules will still apply. Also, you do not need to reserve 5 feet of movement in order to make a Rabbit Hop. Having 0 movement left is not the same as having a speed of 0. You can use all of your movement and still Rabbit Hop unrestricted.

Again, having the ability to jump as a Bonus Action does not force the Harengon to use a Bonus Action for every jump. Being able to eat a berry as a Bonus Action does not require a Bonus Action to eat.

The fact that eating is not present explicitly in the non-exhaustive summary for each action means that either eating (whether a berry or a ration), is covered by one of the actions and is not explicitly stated or takes longer than one action. Or are you proposition that characters cannot eat because the action does not exist?

Administering First Aid is a single Help action (which in itself is wild, but this isn't CPR simulator). 

You cannot Rabbit Hop with any Action other than the Bonus Action it states you can use. The same text that is used for Goodberry. Do you think you can use Rabbit Hob as part of your movement? I think you are beginning to paint yourself into a corner here. 

No one said or implied that a Bonus Action is required for every jump. Only the jump as defined in the Rabbit Hop Trait requires the Bonus Action to use.

Rabbit Hop allows for a jump as a Bonus Action. It does not remove the ability to jump normally.

Goodberry allows for eating as a Bonus Action. It does not remove the ability to eat normally. Saying that you cannot eat a berry outside of the Bonus Action provided by a spell is the same as saying that you cannot jump outside of the Bonus Action provided by a Rabbit Hop.

Quote from Erik_Soong >>

The Help Action states the following:

When you take the Help action, you do one of the following.

Assist an Ability Check. Choose one of your skill or tool proficiencies and one ally who is near enough for you to assist verbally or physically when they make an ability check. That ally has Advantage on the next ability check they make with the chosen skill or tool. This benefit expires if the ally doesn’t use it before the start of your next turn. The DM has final say on whether your assistance is possible.

Assist an Attack Roll. You momentarily distract an enemy within 5 feet of you, giving Advantage to the next attack roll by one of your allies against that enemy. This benefit expires at the start of your next turn.

Your comment about administering first aid seems like a Red Herring to me, but nothing about it actually invalidates anything I said about the Help Action. An Ability Check (such as a Medicine Check) qualifies under the Help Action and is one option to remove the Unconscious Condition from a creature. 

Playing the Game > Actions Table (emphasis added)

Help	Help another creature’s ability check or attack roll, or administer first aid.

As a single Help Action, you can administer first aid. This is a crazy short amount of time for the activity, but this is not a simulation. Someone suggested using this as the basis for feeding a berry to another character a berry.

I just ate and I can completely see eating a bite of food normally taking minutes, well beyond the limits of a 6 second action. However, I would also never expect CPR to succeed in 6 seconds so there's that.

Quote from Wysperra >>

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5 >>

Quote from Wysperra >>

So if you insist that a Bonus Action is not needed to get the healing or the nourishment, what does eating the berry with a Bonus Action do?

Eat one berry safely in a combat situation.

 So you use your Bonus Action to eat the berry and nothing happens? Why would anybody do that? What would be the point of making that a feature of the spell?

What does the spell say happens when you eat a berry, independent of the action taken to do so?

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5 >>

Quote from Wysperra >>

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5 >>

Quote from Wysperra >>

So if you insist that a Bonus Action is not needed to get the healing or the nourishment, what does eating the berry with a Bonus Action do?

Eat one berry safely in a combat situation.

 So you use your Bonus Action to eat the berry and nothing happens? Why would anybody do that? What would be the point of making that a feature of the spell?

What does the spell say happens when you eat a berry, independent of the action taken to do so?

 According to your interpretation, it does nothing.

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5>>

Rabbit Hop allows for a jump as a Bonus Action. It does not remove the ability to jump normally.

Goodberry allows for eating as a Bonus Action. It does not remove the ability to eat normally. Saying that you cannot eat a berry outside of the Bonus Action provided by a spell is the same as saying that you cannot jump outside of the Bonus Action provided by a Rabbit Hop.

 You cannot jump a number of feet equal to five times your proficiency bonus without provoking opportunity attacks outside of the Bonus Action provided by Rabbit Hop.

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5 >>

Rabbit Hop allows for a jump as a Bonus Action. It does not remove the ability to jump normally.

You are the only one who seems to think that the argument is that Rabbit Hop removes anything. The mechanics of Rabbit Hop are entirely divorced from the mechanics of a regular Jump. In fact,  you have already agreed that it does not use your movement. 

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5 >>

Goodberry allows for eating as a Bonus Action. It does not remove the ability to eat normally.

What are the mechanics for eating normally?

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5 >>

Saying that you cannot eat a berry outside of the Bonus Action provided by a spell is the same as saying that you cannot jump outside of the Bonus Action provided by a Rabbit Hop.

Wrong. There are mechanics for normal jumping.

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5 >>

Playing the Game > Actions Table (emphasis added)

Help	Help another creature’s ability check or attack roll, or administer first aid.

Well, I will admit to not seeing this. Point to you. A Help Action is what you use to perform a Medicine Check when needing to administer first aid.

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5 >>

Someone suggested using this as the basis for feeding a berry to another character a berry.

And that is not a RAW suggestion, but a house rule, so why are we talking about what some other user suggested? 

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5 >>

What does the spell say happens when you eat a berry, independent of the action taken to do so?

The only Action available to eat the Goodberry is a Bonus Action, per RAW.

What is your goal here? You don't seem very interested in clarifying RAW, but in inserting and defending some house rule you seem to prefer. Why?

Quote from Erik_Soong >>

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5 >>

Rabbit Hop allows for a jump as a Bonus Action. It does not remove the ability to jump normally.

You are the only one who seems to think that the argument is that Rabbit Hop removes anything. The mechanics of Rabbit Hop are entirely divorced from the mechanics of a regular Jump. In fact,  you have already agreed that it does not use your movement.

I am quite clearly stating that it does not remove anything.

I am saying that the presence of a Bonus Action does not remove the ability to otherwise do something. You cannot normally teleport, so having a Bonus Action to Misty Step is the only way to teleport (barring some other feature). You can normally jump and eat. Having a Bonus Action that lets you jump or eat does not prevent you from jumping or eating.

Quote from Erik_Soong>>

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5>>

Goodberry allows for eating as a Bonus Action. It does not remove the ability to eat normally.

What are the mechanics for eating normally?

It's up the DM. Are you going to propose that Rations can't be eaten or Waterskins can't be drunk from because they are not called out in a table of actions?

Quote from Erik_Soong >>

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5 >>

Someone suggested using this as the basis for feeding a berry to another character a berry.

And that is not a RAW suggestion, but a house rule, so why are we talking about what some other user suggested? 

... 

What is your goal here? You don't seem very interested in clarifying RAW, but in inserting and defending some house rule you seem to prefer. Why?

Because there is a valid reading of the RAW that supports the desired action. If you feed a Goodberry to a creature, using whatever time a DM requires, the creature regains 1 hit point and is stabilized. The normal action of eating food is not defined so the DM deciding that it takes an action, multiple actions, or a downtime activity, is completely kosher. Eating is not prohibited because there is no d20 test or action defined for it. Because the healing is independent of the Bonus Action provided to eat a berry, it is not dependent on it by RAW.

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5 >>

Because there is a valid reading of the RAW that supports the desired action. If you feed a Goodberry to a creature, using whatever time a DM requires, the creature regains 1 hit point and is stabilized. The normal action of eating food is not defined so the DM deciding that it takes an action, multiple actions, or a downtime activity, is completely kosher. Eating is not prohibited because there is no d20 test or action defined for it. Because the healing is independent of the Bonus Action provided to eat a berry, it is not dependent on it by RAW.

I agree with this basic sentiment. However,
1) I wouldn't be surprised if a DM ruled you can't force-feed an unconscious person, at least not in combat/action time.
2) I kinda think it's RAI that that can't be done, because "force-feed an unconscious person in combat time" is exactly the sort of thing you'd want to clarify in the rules, and Goodberry not having rules for it (while potions do) kinda suggests it's not supposed to be done. Goodberry already obviates scavenging for food (for a single 1st level spell slot at the end of the day), and it also obviating most any need for stabilizing people with medicine checks with that same end-of-day spell slot may be a step too far.

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5 >>

I am quite clearly stating that it does not remove anything.

Yes, but you are framing counterarguments from others as if that were their argument. It is not. Stop strawmanning your opponent's arguments. You are the only person who has said anything about removing Actions. 

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5 >>

I am saying that the presence of a Bonus Action does not remove the ability to otherwise do something. You cannot normally teleport, so having a Bonus Action to Misty Step is the only way to teleport (barring some other feature). You can normally jump and eat. Having a Bonus Action that lets you jump or eat does not prevent you from jumping or eating.

Then you are arguing with the wind, my friend because no one except you is arguing this point. It is an attempt to obfuscate and tangle arguments up with each other. That is exactly why when I ask you directly what the mechanics are for eating in the very next line, you dodge it with a question of your own.

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5 >>

It's up the DM. Are you going to propose that Rations can't be eaten or Waterskins can't be drunk from because they are not called out in a table of actions?

No, the Utilize Action is used for non-magical items, and food is a non-magical item. The Magic Action is called for to utilize a magical item. If you want to drink a waterskin as your Action in combat, by all means. I would not allow my players to drink from their waterskin as a Bonus Action unless someone had a trait that allowed it. Remember, this is a forum for discussions about RAW or RAI, not house rules. Your argument could find some support in the Dungeon Master's Forum though. 

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5 >>

Because there is a valid reading of the RAW that supports the desired action. If you feed a Goodberry to a creature, using whatever time a DM requires, the creature regains 1 hit point and is stabilized. The normal action of eating food is not defined so the DM deciding that it takes an action, multiple actions, or a downtime activity, is completely kosher. Eating is not prohibited because there is no d20 test or action defined for it. Because the healing is independent of the Bonus Action provided to eat a berry, it is not dependent on it by RAW.

Except you cannot feed an Unconscious creature anything because your Actions are for you, not them. You can use your Action to put it in their mouth, but they cannot swallow it. They have the Incapacitated Condition, meaning they can take no actions, and they are not aware of their surroundings, so they do not know that anyone else is trying to interact with them. If you want to return someone from Unconsciousness, use your Help Action to perform a Medicine Check to administer first aid. What you are proposing is a house rule and nothing you have said has changed that. 

Quote from kenclary >>

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5 >>

Because there is a valid reading of the RAW that supports the desired action. If you feed a Goodberry to a creature, using whatever time a DM requires, the creature regains 1 hit point and is stabilized. The normal action of eating food is not defined so the DM deciding that it takes an action, multiple actions, or a downtime activity, is completely kosher. Eating is not prohibited because there is no d20 test or action defined for it. Because the healing is independent of the Bonus Action provided to eat a berry, it is not dependent on it by RAW.

I agree with this basic sentiment. However,
1) I wouldn't be surprised if a DM ruled you can't force-feed an unconscious person, at least not in combat/action time.
2) I kinda think it's RAI that that can't be done, because "force-feed an unconscious person in combat time" is exactly the sort of thing you'd want to clarify in the rules, and Goodberry not having rules for it (while potions do) kinda suggests it's not supposed to be done. Goodberry already obviates scavenging for food (for a single 1st level spell slot at the end of the day), and it also obviating most any need for stabilizing people with medicine checks with that same end-of-day spell slot may be a step too far.

I agree with you completely regarding combat/action time in general. There is already some weird timing going on with providing first aid as a help action (about 6 seconds). It's a crazy short amount of time for it already. Replacing it with shoving a berry down someone's throat seems less unreasonable, regardless of any other counterarguments. In any case, how the berry can be eaten is up to the DM.

Quote from Erik_Soong>>

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5>>

I am quite clearly stating that it does not remove anything.

Yes, but you are framing counterarguments from others as if that were their argument. It is not. Stop strawmanning your opponent's arguments. You are the only person who has said anything about removing Actions. 

Incorrect. The basic opposing argument is that because there is a Bonus Action to eat a berry, it cannot be eaten any other way. This is similar to not being able to jump because you have a Bonus Action that allows you to jump.

Quote from Erik_Soong>>

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5>>

It's up the DM. Are you going to propose that Rations can't be eaten or Waterskins can't be drunk from because they are not called out in a table of actions?

No, the Utilize Action is used for non-magical items, and food is a non-magical item. The Magic Action is called for to utilize a magical item. If you want to drink a waterskin as your Action in combat, by all means. I would not allow my players to drink from their waterskin as a Bonus Action unless someone had a trait that allowed it. Remember, this is a forum for discussions about RAW or RAI, not house rules. Your argument could find some support in the Dungeon Master's Forum though.  

No one is making the argument for drinking from their waterskin as a Bonus Action. Please take your own advice regarding straw men. Eating or drinking cannot necessarily be completed with a utilize action. This is not defined anywhere and six seconds is not enough time to safely ingest food. Even speed eating records would translate to multiple combat rounds. If you allow in-combat noshing outside of special abilities, you do you. This, again, isn't a simulation after all. However, there is no RAW defined action or time to eat.

Since there is no defined RAW time to eat, it is left up to the individual DM. Some may choose, as you have, to allow eating as a utilize action.

Regardless of how a berry is eaten, RAW is that when eaten, the character eating it regains 1 hit point.

Quote from Erik_Soong>>

Except you cannot feed an Unconscious creature anything because your Actions are for you, not them. You can use your Action to put it in their mouth, but they cannot swallow it. They have the Incapacitated Condition, meaning they can take no actions, and they are not aware of their surroundings, so they do not know that anyone else is trying to interact with them. If you want to return someone from Unconsciousness, use your Help Action to perform a Medicine Check to administer first aid. What you are proposing is a house rule and nothing you have said has changed that. 

I don't how you came to the conclusion that swallowing requires an action, but the Unconscious creature does not need to take an action because the person providing the berry is taking the action. This would also be true if someone was Unconscious and you need to get them to drink to prevent dehydration.

As I said before, the interaction might not be RAI. However, it is a RAW interpretation that supports the desired result of using Goodberry for first aid.

Quote from SmiteMakesRight_3_5>>

Skreed

Incorrect. The basic opposing argument is that because there is a Bonus Action to eat a berry, it cannot be eaten any other way. This is similar to not being able to jump because you have a Bonus Action that allows you to jump.

No one is making the argument for drinking from their waterskin as a Bonus Action. Please take your own advice regarding straw men. Eating or drinking cannot necessarily be completed with a utilize action. This is not defined anywhere and six seconds is not enough time to safely ingest food. Even speed eating records would translate to multiple combat rounds. If you allow in-combat noshing outside of special abilities, you do you. This, again, isn't a simulation after all. However, there is no RAW defined action or time to eat.

Since there is no defined RAW time to eat, it is left up to the individual DM. Some may choose, as you have, to allow eating as a utilize action.

Regardless of how a berry is eaten, RAW is that when eaten, the character eating it regains 1 hit point.

I don't how you came to the conclusion that swallowing requires an action, but the Unconscious creature does not need to take an action because the person providing the berry is taking the action. This would also be true if someone was Unconscious and you need to get them to drink to prevent dehydration.

As I said before, the interaction might not be RAI. However, it is a RAW interpretation that supports the desired result of using Goodberry for first aid.

If you cannot address my actual arguments and you insist on creating those that are easier for you to defeat while rejecting the rules that are given to you, I can see no benefit to discussing anything with you. Block exists for a reason.