Ok, tonight I had something come up in a session I was playing in. I play a Shadar-kai Warlock, my party and I decided to take a long rest we set up a watch schedule with me taking the last 4hrs. He statrd that 6 hrs. Passed, when we got attacked by wandering monsters, I gave myself my missing spell slot back having finished my 4hrs. Later in the session he commented on how I shouldn't have had my spell slot back, and that he would have to watch me from now on.. can I get some clarification, cause I'm not cool with that ruling, nor the lack of trust.
As I understand it the original intent was that Elves would spend 4 hours in meditation and four hours light activity for a long rest. After discussion and gameplay review Jeremy Crawford felt that RAW is that four hours meditation satisfies the long rest requirement. Hopefully someone smarter will be along to post the relevant links.
In short, elves only need to meditate four hours to complete a long rest.
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Perpetually annoyed that Eldritch Knights can't use Eldritch Blast, Eldritch Smite, and Eldritch Sight.
" Does the Trance trait allow an elf to finish a long rest in 4 hours? If an elf meditates during a long rest (as described in the Trance trait), the elf finishes the rest after only 4 hours. A meditating elf otherwise follows all the rules for a long rest; only the duration is changed. [This answer has been altered as a result of a tweak to the rules for a long rest, which appears in newer printings of the Player’s Handbook]."
Well if you are a Warlock, you are getting your spell slots back on a short rest anyway so it doesn't matter that you only rested for 4 hours because you did have enough for a short rest. If you just restored your spell slot it should be fine, but other than that you could have rolled Hit dice, but not much more.
Well if you are a Warlock, you are getting your spell slots back on a short rest anyway so it doesn't matter that you only rested for 4 hours because you did have enough for a short rest. If you just restored your spell slot it should be fine, but other than that you could have rolled Hit dice, but not much more.
RAW, you only gain the benefits of a short rest if you declare you're taking a short rest - short and long rests don't stack, so if your long rest gets interrupted after an hour you don't get nothin'.
Well if you are a Warlock, you are getting your spell slots back on a short rest anyway so it doesn't matter that you only rested for 4 hours because you did have enough for a short rest. If you just restored your spell slot it should be fine, but other than that you could have rolled Hit dice, but not much more.
RAW, you only gain the benefits of a short rest if you declare you're taking a short rest - short and long rests don't stack, so if your long rest gets interrupted after an hour you don't get nothin'.
Where is that specified? It seems rather counter-intuitive.
If you start a long rest and fulfill the requirements of a short rest, but not a long rest, there is nothing indicating you don't gain the benefits of a short rest. But I agree that you can't take both rests simultaneously. What's important is the features recovered on a rest all say "when you finish a ... rest". If you aren't able to finish a long rest there's no indication that you can't finish a short rest instead.
That is a very odd and counter intuitive reading of the rules. Seems official by Crawford, but not something I would consider to be natural in any way; this is the first I've heard of it.
And the lack of trust is a bit odd. I mean, the DM could have just been all like "Oh, hey, long rests don't include short rests" since that's a VERY easy thing to confuse, or mentioned that this game didn't use the Trance-shorter-rest rules. Something else has to be going on here.
Are you sure he didn't say "I'm going to have to watch that from now on"? Because what you said definitely sounds like a lack of trust while what I said sounds like it's him trying to not make what he perceives as the same mistake twice.
A couple of important differences between,a short rest and a long rest include:
Light duty, during a long rest you can participate in "light duty" but during a short rest you can not do anything so strenuous as keeping watch
0 hit points, you can spend a hit die to recover hit points during a short rest even if you are at 0 hp. But you gain no benefit from a long rest if you begin the rest at 0 hp.
24-hour period, You can only benefit from one long rest in any 24-hour period so you might go back to sleep or rest for 8 hours 3 hours into your day, but it only grants the benefits of a short rest to do so.
Contiguous, a long rest can be interrupted for up to an hour without losing its benefit. But a short rest may not.
So there are definately situations where the two cannot overlap, particularly if someone is at 0 hp, but as Crawford stated in the tweet above, allowing your players to take a short rest when their long rest is interrupted will not negatively impact your game.
I'm not finding the rule on Warlocks recovering their spell slots after a short rest, can you please provide a reference to the rule, page number and book perhaps?
I'm not finding the rule on Warlocks recovering their spell slots after a short rest, can you please provide a reference to the rule, page number and book perhaps?
No I didn't mistake what the dm said He said I'm going to have to watch you from now on I'm making a note of that. My whole reasoning behind my move was based on logic of chronology. I was trying to cheat the game. I'm there to havrfun to begin with. To me it just doesn't make any logical sense that I wouldn't have regained the spell slot.
is it possible he was under the mis-information that I was, like many DM's that still confuse 3.5, 4, and 5e? It might be that he forgot, or was unaware that Warlocks only required a short rest.
I would bring it up to him before your next game, let him know that the trust issue is big, and that you feel there may be a mis-understanding.
What you really need to do is let something go wrong that you aren't required to do by any rules. Thus showing that you aren't here to win became, but play it.
Capture that Goblin, get ready to question him, then say "meh, who's got time to pull teeth from a goblin anyway?" Cut his bonds and let him go.
Open the door that might be trapped "I've got places to be and nations to conquer!" Without rolling perception and such.
You could use your Lucky feature to save from the that Fireball, but instead you give your Warlock an opportunity for a lesson in humility.
You know? Or just talk to the guy. Let him know you're not so serious about the game that your looking to slip one by him. Then by him a beer... Or a soda. Depending on your table.
I planned on taking to him about it before the next session, I hoped it would come across in the way I played my character, for instance I know the creature we're gonna fight in an upcoming battle, but I didn't let that knowledge affect the actions of my character. I know full well that it has fire resistance but I still threw a fireball into the room. Thanks everyone for your help. Ive come to realize it's a really iffy topic and one I think the rules should probably be revised for. It just makes logical sense that. The 4hrs an elf is in trance would count as a long rest for them. And that they get their spells back after a short rest which consists of at least 1 hr. So the 6hrs. That passed would have given me the missing spell. But anyways I wanted to see what the consensus was and if anyone else had an issue of the second sort what their ruling would be.
A long rest is strictly stated as 8 hours. As an elf, you just aren't unaware of your surroundings completely. You are the one on watch for most of it because of this and not that you get the full benefit for under that amount of time.
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Ok, tonight I had something come up in a session I was playing in. I play a Shadar-kai Warlock, my party and I decided to take a long rest we set up a watch schedule with me taking the last 4hrs. He statrd that 6 hrs. Passed, when we got attacked by wandering monsters, I gave myself my missing spell slot back having finished my 4hrs. Later in the session he commented on how I shouldn't have had my spell slot back, and that he would have to watch me from now on.. can I get some clarification, cause I'm not cool with that ruling, nor the lack of trust.
As I understand it the original intent was that Elves would spend 4 hours in meditation and four hours light activity for a long rest. After discussion and gameplay review Jeremy Crawford felt that RAW is that four hours meditation satisfies the long rest requirement. Hopefully someone smarter will be along to post the relevant links.
In short, elves only need to meditate four hours to complete a long rest.
Perpetually annoyed that Eldritch Knights can't use Eldritch Blast, Eldritch Smite, and Eldritch Sight.
There was a super long discussion last year on this - this is is the thread where a lot of it was debated: https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/rules-game-mechanics/2115-elves-and-extended-rests
The latest printings of the PHB have changed the wording on long rests. Elves do indeed only need 4 hours to gain the benefits of a long rest.
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Here is the quote from Sage Advice;
" Does the Trance trait allow an elf to finish a long rest in 4 hours? If an elf meditates during a long rest (as described in the Trance trait), the elf finishes the rest after only 4 hours. A meditating elf otherwise follows all the rules for a long rest; only the duration is changed. [This answer has been altered as a result of a tweak to the rules for a long rest, which appears in newer printings of the Player’s Handbook]."
sage advice link
Perpetually annoyed that Eldritch Knights can't use Eldritch Blast, Eldritch Smite, and Eldritch Sight.
Well if you are a Warlock, you are getting your spell slots back on a short rest anyway so it doesn't matter that you only rested for 4 hours because you did have enough for a short rest. If you just restored your spell slot it should be fine, but other than that you could have rolled Hit dice, but not much more.
RAW, you only gain the benefits of a short rest if you declare you're taking a short rest - short and long rests don't stack, so if your long rest gets interrupted after an hour you don't get nothin'.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
Where is that specified? It seems rather counter-intuitive.
If you start a long rest and fulfill the requirements of a short rest, but not a long rest, there is nothing indicating you don't gain the benefits of a short rest. But I agree that you can't take both rests simultaneously. What's important is the features recovered on a rest all say "when you finish a ... rest". If you aren't able to finish a long rest there's no indication that you can't finish a short rest instead.
Extended Signature
That is a very odd and counter intuitive reading of the rules. Seems official by Crawford, but not something I would consider to be natural in any way; this is the first I've heard of it.
And the lack of trust is a bit odd. I mean, the DM could have just been all like "Oh, hey, long rests don't include short rests" since that's a VERY easy thing to confuse, or mentioned that this game didn't use the Trance-shorter-rest rules. Something else has to be going on here.
Are you sure he didn't say "I'm going to have to watch that from now on"? Because what you said definitely sounds like a lack of trust while what I said sounds like it's him trying to not make what he perceives as the same mistake twice.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/983508494421655552
Of course, your DM can easily decide that the first hour of your long rest counts as your short rest, but that is apparently not the intention.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
A couple of important differences between,a short rest and a long rest include:
Light duty, during a long rest you can participate in "light duty" but during a short rest you can not do anything so strenuous as keeping watch
0 hit points, you can spend a hit die to recover hit points during a short rest even if you are at 0 hp. But you gain no benefit from a long rest if you begin the rest at 0 hp.
24-hour period, You can only benefit from one long rest in any 24-hour period so you might go back to sleep or rest for 8 hours 3 hours into your day, but it only grants the benefits of a short rest to do so.
Contiguous, a long rest can be interrupted for up to an hour without losing its benefit. But a short rest may not.
So there are definately situations where the two cannot overlap, particularly if someone is at 0 hp, but as Crawford stated in the tweet above, allowing your players to take a short rest when their long rest is interrupted will not negatively impact your game.
Extended Signature
I'm not finding the rule on Warlocks recovering their spell slots after a short rest, can you please provide a reference to the rule, page number and book perhaps?
thanks,
Palmate
Ah, never mind I found it... thanks!
Palmate
https://www.dndbeyond.com/characters/classes/warlock#PactMagic
No I didn't mistake what the dm said He said I'm going to have to watch you from now on I'm making a note of that. My whole reasoning behind my move was based on logic of chronology. I was trying to cheat the game. I'm there to havrfun to begin with. To me it just doesn't make any logical sense that I wouldn't have regained the spell slot.
is it possible he was under the mis-information that I was, like many DM's that still confuse 3.5, 4, and 5e? It might be that he forgot, or was unaware that Warlocks only required a short rest.
I would bring it up to him before your next game, let him know that the trust issue is big, and that you feel there may be a mis-understanding.
Palmate
What you really need to do is let something go wrong that you aren't required to do by any rules. Thus showing that you aren't here to win became, but play it.
Capture that Goblin, get ready to question him, then say "meh, who's got time to pull teeth from a goblin anyway?" Cut his bonds and let him go.
Open the door that might be trapped "I've got places to be and nations to conquer!" Without rolling perception and such.
You could use your Lucky feature to save from the that Fireball, but instead you give your Warlock an opportunity for a lesson in humility.
You know? Or just talk to the guy. Let him know you're not so serious about the game that your looking to slip one by him. Then by him a beer... Or a soda. Depending on your table.
Extended Signature
I planned on taking to him about it before the next session, I hoped it would come across in the way I played my character, for instance I know the creature we're gonna fight in an upcoming battle, but I didn't let that knowledge affect the actions of my character. I know full well that it has fire resistance but I still threw a fireball into the room. Thanks everyone for your help. Ive come to realize it's a really iffy topic and one I think the rules should probably be revised for. It just makes logical sense that. The 4hrs an elf is in trance would count as a long rest for them. And that they get their spells back after a short rest which consists of at least 1 hr. So the 6hrs. That passed would have given me the missing spell. But anyways I wanted to see what the consensus was and if anyone else had an issue of the second sort what their ruling would be.
A long rest is strictly stated as 8 hours. As an elf, you just aren't unaware of your surroundings completely. You are the one on watch for most of it because of this and not that you get the full benefit for under that amount of time.