1) To use sneak attack the weapon must be with finesse property or a ranged attack (see below). Spear is neither.
2) You can use a spear for martial art. The spear can be used with 2 hands because it has the versatile property, which it is not excluded in the martial art (see below)
3) Sneak attack and martial art can work together, but not with a spear:
Beginning at 1st level, you know how to strike subtly and exploit a foe’s distraction. Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon.
You don’t need advantage on the attack roll if another enemy of the target is within 5 feet of it, that enemy isn’t incapacitated, and you don’t have disadvantage on the attack roll.
The amount of the extra damage increases as you gain levels in this class, as shown in the Sneak Attack column of the Rogue table.
Martial Arts
At 1st level, your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of combat styles that use unarmed strikes and monk weapons, which are shortswords and any simple melee weapons that don’t have the two-handed or heavy property.
You gain the following benefits while you are unarmed or wielding only monk weapons and you aren’t wearing armor or wielding a shield:
You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of your unarmed strikes and monk weapons.
You can roll a d4 in place of the normal damage of your unarmed strike or monk weapon. This die changes as you gain monk levels, as shown in the Martial Arts column of the Monk table.
When you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike or a monk weapon on your turn, you can make one unarmed strike as a bonus action. For example, if you take the Attack action and attack with a quarterstaff, you can also make an unarmed strike as a bonus action, assuming you haven’t already taken a bonus action this turn.
Certain monasteries use specialized forms of the monk weapons. For example, you might use a club that is two lengths of wood connected by a short chain (called a nunchaku) or a sickle with a shorter, straighter blade (called a kama). Whatever name you use for a monk weapon, you can use the game statistics provided for the weapon in the Weapons section.
i have the book i can read but does martial arts make a spear into a finesse weapon which the effect of martial atrs heavily suggests i need some official answers
i have the book i can read but does martial arts make a spear into a finesse weapon which the effect of martial atrs heavily suggests i need some official answers
No. Only weapons listed with the finese property have that property.
You say short sword, the monk might say "wakazashi". In the condensed realm of 5E weapons, they are the same thing.
Even outside of 5th edition, most weapons are the same thing. Essentially a sword does a d8, a shorter sword does a d6, a much larger sword does 2d6 or 1d12, and sword that is dagger sized does a d4. Its always better to use the d8 sword with shield or the 2d6 sword without a shield. The other options are usually inferior unless class options alter that.
So you really don't need a book with lots of weapons because the values are exactly the same over and over and over again. Essentially you could list a wakazashi and a short sword in the same book, but the stats would be the same and you would be essentially paying extra money for a book that essentially had three pages of the same things over and over again with different names. (If magic items did this, people would probably complain that there was nothing unique).
With that said I have bought a book for a previous edition that includes several weapons even though I know they are the same stats. So I can't really talk there.
You say short sword, the monk might say "wakazashi". In the condensed realm of 5E weapons, they are the same thing.
Even outside of 5th edition, most weapons are the same thing. Essentially a sword does a d8, a shorter sword does a d6, a much larger sword does 2d6 or 1d12, and sword that is dagger sized does a d4. Its always better to use the d8 sword with shield or the 2d6 sword without a shield. The other options are usually inferior unless class options alter that.
So you really don't need a book with lots of weapons because the values are exactly the same over and over and over again. Essentially you could list a wakazashi and a short sword in the same book, but the stats would be the same and you would be essentially paying extra money for a book that essentially had three pages of the same things over and over again with different names. (If magic items did this, people would probably complain that there was nothing unique).
With that said I have bought a book for a previous edition that includes several weapons even though I know they are the same stats. So I can't really talk there.
Praise it! I'm happy to see useless gear bloat not gone, but lessened.
It's pretty simple although I really wish the Dev Commentary existed to explain why or how they Math-Fu'ed the weapons. Some of the numbers just don't seem to quite add up.
most Martial Weapon does 1d8 and has a special property. From here they lose a die and gain a 2nd property or gain a
Shortsword/Scimitar: 1d6 + Finesse + Light
Longsword/Battleaxe/Warhammer: 1d8 + Versatile
Rapier: 1d8 + Finesse
Glaive/Halberd/Pike: 1d10 + Reach + Heavy + Two-Handed
Greatsword/Greataxe/Maul: 1d12/2d6 + Heavy + Two-Handed
I don't understand: Flail, Morningstar, Trident, Warpick, and Whip
All of these weapons are "sub-par" as Martial Weapons. Flail, Morningstar, and Warpick are 1d8 lack a special ability. The Trident is just spear with Martial Weapon proficiency tacked on, and the Whip is 1 die size under as it's Finesse + reach with a d4 die, unless "reach" is worth 2 special components.
All simple weapons follow pretty much the same formula and lose a die for being "simple".
the flail and morning star is basicly justa warhammer withou the versitile so i dont mind that too much either... to be fair a morning star might aswell have the versitile aswell.. maybe some of them are just here for flavor.. the trident is wierd
3e whip allowed for/gave bonuses to disarming and tripping attempts and 5e doesn't even mention these as options in the PHB (outside Battle Master Fighter maneuvers).
There is an option for knocking a creature prone using the Shoving a Creature attack (page 195 of the PHB), but that involves a Strength (Athletics) contest (which let's be fair, is pretty much never going to be used).
Personally, I would homebrew that the whip makes it so that you can use a weapon attack in place of the Athletics check (allowing you to use both your proficiency in and the finesse quality of the weapon) for knocking a creature prone. And since shoving gives the option of pushing the enemy 5 feet away, I'd allow the whip to try to pull the enemy 5 feet closer instead. I'd also allow the whip to be used for the Disarm Attack (page 271 of the DMG), but I'd give advantage on the attack roll using the whip (negating the disadvantage if the defender is holding the weapon in both hands).
Imagine the scene in Kill Bill 1 where Gogo used the meteor hammer to not only disarm the the Bride, but then later uses it to pull her closer by wrapping it around her neck and then winding the chain around her arms.
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
While I understand what he is saying, he is wrong, in my opinion. While monks don’t give the weapons they use the finesse function by name, the fact that a monk can use either str or dex bonus for these weapons does make them finesse. The definition of finesse is that str or dex can be used. I will say I wouldn’t agree that using a spear two-handed would qualify it for a sneak attack, using it one-handed, as all melee finesse weapons are, should be allowed. I have been thinking about multiclassing my monk into rogue also. He currently has a spear +1, but knew it was a stretch to use that as two-handed sneak attack. I was considering just using unarmed attacks for sneak, since there is no proper definition of unarmed strikes as there is in the equipment section for all other weapons. The unarmed attack definition doesn’t say whether it’s considered finesse, versatile, light, heavy, etc., therefore that has to be interpreted by the wording of its description. Being as it’s obviously one handed because it is the hand, and light because it’s part of the body, those are easy to determine. The fact that you can use either str or dex, which is what the finesse weapons definition is, makes unarmed strikes into finesse weapons. But, of course, this is all just my opinion.
The definition of finesse is that str or dex can be used.
A cat is a mammal by definition. Not all mammals are cats.
If a weapon has the finesse property, you can use Strength or Dexterity. Being able to use Strength or Dexterity doesn't always mean you're using a weapon with the finesse property.
Ultimately though just as D and D books always state it is up to the DM though. If you wanted to use any of these weapons for a sneak attack you could.
With all D and D stuff they always say there is no set rules everything we as players use are just “templates”. Besides you could always homebrew a spear that had what you needed or wanted if you absolutely wanted to stay with the rules.
While I understand what he is saying, he is wrong, in my opinion.
A person can't be wrong about a fact and that be considered a difference of opinion.
What you have clearly meant to say is that you understand that what he is saying is correct, but it working differently than it does would be better in your opinion. That you'd rather it be something else does not mean someone saying how it is is "wrong."
While I understand what he is saying, he is wrong, in my opinion. While monks don’t give the weapons they use the finesse function by name, the fact that a monk can use either str or dex bonus for these weapons does make them finesse. The definition of finesse is that str or dex can be used. I will say I wouldn’t agree that using a spear two-handed would qualify it for a sneak attack, using it one-handed, as all melee finesse weapons are, should be allowed. I have been thinking about multiclassing my monk into rogue also. He currently has a spear +1, but knew it was a stretch to use that as two-handed sneak attack. I was considering just using unarmed attacks for sneak, since there is no proper definition of unarmed strikes as there is in the equipment section for all other weapons. The unarmed attack definition doesn’t say whether it’s considered finesse, versatile, light, heavy, etc., therefore that has to be interpreted by the wording of its description. Being as it’s obviously one handed because it is the hand, and light because it’s part of the body, those are easy to determine. The fact that you can use either str or dex, which is what the finesse weapons definition is, makes unarmed strikes into finesse weapons. But, of course, this is all just my opinion.
A weapon with Finesse allows ANYONE to use either STR or DEX when using it, the difference with Martial Arts is that it allows Monks to use weapons without the Finesse quality with DEX, thanks to their specific training and way of using them. By definition it does not add the Finesse quality, otherwise the text would read "You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of your unarmed strikes and monk weapons as if they had the Finesse quality", and with this kind of wording, the assumption that the weapon could be considered a finesse weapon in the hands of a Monk would have more sense, but as it is worded now, "You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of your unarmed strikes and monk weapons.", it does not allow for that assumption. While mostly left to interpretation, the rules in 5th edition are worded in a specific way, with a very specific intent. This is one such example.
As an interesting side note, having fought with a spear IRL, the wielder has significantly more control over the weapon when wielding it two-handed, compared to one-handed.
This means when wielded two-handed you can place more powerful blows/thrusts, but you can also be far more precise with your strikes.
I'm not an expert, but have some experience to draw on.
Also, I'm not saying that rules in D&D should be based on reality either - just thought some of you may find it interesting. :)
so i was thinking of making a monk/assasin character but my question is this
can i sneak attack with a spear considering martial arts? and what happens if i use it 2handed?
1) To use sneak attack the weapon must be with finesse property or a ranged attack (see below). Spear is neither.
2) You can use a spear for martial art. The spear can be used with 2 hands because it has the versatile property, which it is not excluded in the martial art (see below)
3) Sneak attack and martial art can work together, but not with a spear:
http://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/04/23/do-weapons-that-can-be-thrown-but-arent-ranged-weapons/
Sneak Attack
Beginning at 1st level, you know how to strike subtly and exploit a foe’s distraction. Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon.
You don’t need advantage on the attack roll if another enemy of the target is within 5 feet of it, that enemy isn’t incapacitated, and you don’t have disadvantage on the attack roll.
The amount of the extra damage increases as you gain levels in this class, as shown in the Sneak Attack column of the Rogue table.
Martial Arts
At 1st level, your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of combat styles that use unarmed strikes and monk weapons, which are shortswords and any simple melee weapons that don’t have the two-handed or heavy property.
You gain the following benefits while you are unarmed or wielding only monk weapons and you aren’t wearing armor or wielding a shield:
Certain monasteries use specialized forms of the monk weapons. For example, you might use a club that is two lengths of wood connected by a short chain (called a nunchaku) or a sickle with a shorter, straighter blade (called a kama). Whatever name you use for a monk weapon, you can use the game statistics provided for the weapon in the Weapons section.
i have the book i can read but does martial arts make a spear into a finesse weapon which the effect of martial atrs heavily suggests i need some official answers
Officially, martial art does not give finesse property to the weapon you are using. Here the answer from Jeremy Crawford:
http://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/06/23/martial-arts-and-finesse/
shit :( back to the drawing board i guess
i guess using a short sword is fine and doesnt take away anything but the visuals :)
You say short sword, the monk might say "wakazashi". In the condensed realm of 5E weapons, they are the same thing.
We all leave footprints in the sands of time.
yeye but i wanted hte visual of a spear or staff but its all good :)
i dont mind the whip so much
the flail and morning star is basicly justa warhammer withou the versitile so i dont mind that too much either... to be fair a morning star might aswell have the versitile aswell.. maybe some of them are just here for flavor.. the trident is wierd
maybe they were just in there for flavor?
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“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Ultimately though just as D and D books always state it is up to the DM though. If you wanted to use any of these weapons for a sneak attack you could.
With all D and D stuff they always say there is no set rules everything we as players use are just “templates”. Besides you could always homebrew a spear that had what you needed or wanted if you absolutely wanted to stay with the rules.
A person can't be wrong about a fact and that be considered a difference of opinion.
What you have clearly meant to say is that you understand that what he is saying is correct, but it working differently than it does would be better in your opinion. That you'd rather it be something else does not mean someone saying how it is is "wrong."
By definition it does not add the Finesse quality, otherwise the text would read "You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of your unarmed strikes and monk weapons as if they had the Finesse quality", and with this kind of wording, the assumption that the weapon could be considered a finesse weapon in the hands of a Monk would have more sense, but as it is worded now, "You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of your unarmed strikes and monk weapons.", it does not allow for that assumption.
While mostly left to interpretation, the rules in 5th edition are worded in a specific way, with a very specific intent. This is one such example.
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As an interesting side note, having fought with a spear IRL, the wielder has significantly more control over the weapon when wielding it two-handed, compared to one-handed.
This means when wielded two-handed you can place more powerful blows/thrusts, but you can also be far more precise with your strikes.
I'm not an expert, but have some experience to draw on.
Also, I'm not saying that rules in D&D should be based on reality either - just thought some of you may find it interesting. :)
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