No one would cast find tamiliar anymore. 3 familiars for one hour, instant summons and no cost. Like hqve a recon drone team. Map dungeons, ecplore and scout anything instantly. Looss one or more? Just cast again.
It makes no sense. This spell needs adjusting. A cost in materials, far shorter duration or having a familiar pre summoned with find damiliar as prereq. Something.
I'd say they balanced it quite well compared to find familiar. Higher level, not a ritual, shorter duration, requires concentration vs the benefits of shorter cast time, free vs 10gp, and 2 additional familiars.
The ideal use for this would be to cast it for mapping a dungeon or keeping watch whilst you have a short rest and regain the spell slot (Warlock), but then it is balanced by using Concentration, so that is out of the window. Good to have on your spells known list as it could probably be good in certain situations, stealthy spy missions for example, but not good for combat when you have so few spell slots.
Only if they poke you in the coconut. Stop it now.
I think it is a good spell, the familiars can be killed, your concentration can be broken, you can't look through all of their eyes at once.
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
There's a lot of ways you can abuse Flock of Familiars, especially as a warlock -- example, just summon 3 owls who don't take opportunity attacks, then give the help action on each turn. Free advantage, no saves needed from the baddies like they would for say faerie fire. If the warlocks have pact of the chain, they could rule they get 3 imps, or 3 sprites, and that'll cheese a few encounters with all that poison damage and sleep. You can also scout out an entire dungeon with three familiars at the same time. It's a level 2 spell. The time limit doesn't matter, I'd argue - the warlock in my game only uses his familiar for scouting currently, so he's done with his single familiar in about 10 minutes game time. Also of course Locks get the spell back after a short rest. There's even more that can be done if the person is multi-classing. The spell was not thought through. Lots of ways it can be abused.
This said, lots of GM's are ruling that even though Lost Laboratory of Kwalish is published by WotC, the spells and lots of the material are considered on par with homebrew. I'm personally keeping it out of my game.
What do you mean by "abuse"? What shall be done with this spell if not used useful? Summon some pals for bowling, some lads for a dnd-session? Pact of Chain is made for this and nothing else :(
I can just see a high level enemy sending ten cats and using them to cast shocking grasp against a small party
That sounds fun, but is probably not as over powered as you are imagining. Casting a spell through a familiar does not duplicate the spell for multiple familiars. You can only send 1 spell through 1 familiar to 1 target.
There's a lot of ways you can abuse Flock of Familiars, especially as a warlock -- example, just summon 3 owls who don't take opportunity attacks, then give the help action on each turn. Free advantage, no saves needed from the baddies like they would for say faerie fire. If the warlocks have pact of the chain, they could rule they get 3 imps, or 3 sprites, and that'll cheese a few encounters with all that poison damage and sleep. You can also scout out an entire dungeon with three familiars at the same time. It's a level 2 spell. The time limit doesn't matter, I'd argue - the warlock in my game only uses his familiar for scouting currently, so he's done with his single familiar in about 10 minutes game time. Also of course Locks get the spell back after a short rest. There's even more that can be done if the person is multi-classing. The spell was not thought through. Lots of ways it can be abused.
This said, lots of GM's are ruling that even though Lost Laboratory of Kwalish is published by WotC, the spells and lots of the material are considered on par with homebrew. I'm personally keeping it out of my game.
Just want to point out that the part I emboldened would be bending the rules to a huge degree. Summoning an Imp, Pseudodragon, Quasit or Sprite can only be done with the Find Familiar spell that they get as their 3rd level Pact Boon ability. You would not be able to summon these creatures with Flock of Familiars under RAW, and yes, house-ruling that you could do so would be extremely broken.
In my experience, having something occupy your Concentration is a huge mitigating factor. It does seem like the spell isn't perfectly balanced, but D&D isn't really super balanced to begin with...
Flock of Familiars is not concentration. It simply lasts 1 hour, like Disguise self, for example.
And by RAW, Flock of Familiars lets you summon 3 familiars as if you were casting the Find Familiar spell. So you could technically summon Imps, Quasits etc. If you are a pact of the chain Warlock.
You temporarily summon three familiars – spirits that take animal forms of your choice. Each familiar uses the same rules and options for a familiar conjured by the Find Familiar spell. All the familiars conjured by this spell must be the same type of creature (celestials, fey, or fiends; your choice).
It's very powerful for Pact of the Chain warlocks. But you have to consider they essentially built their characters for this, and they have limited spell slots. It's something to be used once per adventure, maybe twice, and performs a very useful scouting function, maybe some "Help" actions in combat, and that is about it. You can only make one of them attack per round, and they have 10HP, so if they get caught by pretty much ANYTHING they are dead.
I think with a reasonable DM and player this spell works fine. Abusers will break it, but I think that is more of a player problem than a problem with the spell itself. Players who abuse mechanics will find ways to do it.
I like this spell and I think it fits the theme of the Chain warlock or Conjuration Wizard more than anything in the game.
Flock of Familiars absolutely does require concentration; that's what the "C" next to both the spells name and duration means.
"Pact of the Chain
You learn the find familiar spell and can cast it as a ritual. The spell doesn’t count against your number of spells known.
When you cast the spell, you can choose one of the normal forms for your familiar or one of the following special forms: imp, pseudodragon, quasit, or sprite."
This effect only happens when casting the Find Familiar spell; it does not work with Flock of Familiars.
And by RAW, Flock of Familiars lets you summon 3 familiars as if you were casting the Find Familiar spell. So you could technically summon Imps, Quasits etc. If you are a pact of the chain Warlock.
You temporarily summon three familiars – spirits that take animal forms of your choice. Each familiar uses the same rules and options for a familiar conjured by the Find Familiar spell. All the familiars conjured by this spell must be the same type of creature (celestials, fey, or fiends; your choice).
Flock of Familiars is a completely different spell. It's not casting Find Familiar 3 times. Pact of the Chain clearly and specifically refers to the Find Familiar spell, not just any spell that summons familiars. It's a fine line, but it's pretty cut and dry.
The ideal use for this would be to cast it for mapping a dungeon or keeping watch whilst you have a short rest and regain the spell slot (Warlock), but then it is balanced by using Concentration, so that is out of the window. Good to have on your spells known list as it could probably be good in certain situations, stealthy spy missions for example, but not good for combat when you have so few spell slots.
I think the spell is fine, but just pointing out that Short Rests do not break concentration.
1) it's not a ritual spell, so it taxes a 2nd level slot (or higher)
2) duration of 1 hour. "Just cast again"? Yeah, taxing that 2nd level slot and not cast something useful in combat?
3) concentration. Just got ambushed and failed that con save? There goes your familiars.
I would just point out here that summoning 3 owls and having them take flyby Help actions is probably better than Bless in combat.
I would say, maybe better than Bless but it's situational. Help gives you a single advantaged attack roll which is more chance to hit, to crit and less chance to critical fail. Bless affects all attacks by increasing your chance to hit and also boosts saving throws, overall bless is going to be more useful, more so at higher levels when character have multiple attacks and are able to get more out of the action economy but also against creatures which have any effects that require a Save DC.
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what was the creator thinking.
No one would cast find tamiliar anymore. 3 familiars for one hour, instant summons and no cost. Like hqve a recon drone team. Map dungeons, ecplore and scout anything instantly. Looss one or more? Just cast again.
It makes no sense. This spell needs adjusting. A cost in materials, far shorter duration or having a familiar pre summoned with find damiliar as prereq. Something.
1) it's not a ritual spell, so it taxes a 2nd level slot (or higher)
2) duration of 1 hour. "Just cast again"? Yeah, taxing that 2nd level slot and not cast something useful in combat?
3) concentration. Just got ambushed and failed that con save? There goes your familiars.
I'd say they balanced it quite well compared to find familiar. Higher level, not a ritual, shorter duration, requires concentration vs the benefits of shorter cast time, free vs 10gp, and 2 additional familiars.
The ideal use for this would be to cast it for mapping a dungeon or keeping watch whilst you have a short rest and regain the spell slot (Warlock), but then it is balanced by using Concentration, so that is out of the window. Good to have on your spells known list as it could probably be good in certain situations, stealthy spy missions for example, but not good for combat when you have so few spell slots.
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Only if they poke you in the coconut. Stop it now.
I think it is a good spell, the familiars can be killed, your concentration can be broken, you can't look through all of their eyes at once.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
I did some research, and the module's publishing is a nod to a player "Galder" who passed from cancer. The spells were thought up on the spot by the player in a reddit thread. Flock of Familiars even was thought by the guy's GM in the comments, not the player, even saying "I'm really bad at coming up with spells personally" https://www.reddit.com/r/AdventuresOfGalder/comments/9lut46/hello_everyone_its_me_i_still_have_an_unanswered/
There's a lot of ways you can abuse Flock of Familiars, especially as a warlock -- example, just summon 3 owls who don't take opportunity attacks, then give the help action on each turn. Free advantage, no saves needed from the baddies like they would for say faerie fire. If the warlocks have pact of the chain, they could rule they get 3 imps, or 3 sprites, and that'll cheese a few encounters with all that poison damage and sleep. You can also scout out an entire dungeon with three familiars at the same time. It's a level 2 spell. The time limit doesn't matter, I'd argue - the warlock in my game only uses his familiar for scouting currently, so he's done with his single familiar in about 10 minutes game time. Also of course Locks get the spell back after a short rest. There's even more that can be done if the person is multi-classing. The spell was not thought through. Lots of ways it can be abused.
This said, lots of GM's are ruling that even though Lost Laboratory of Kwalish is published by WotC, the spells and lots of the material are considered on par with homebrew. I'm personally keeping it out of my game.
What do you mean by "abuse"? What shall be done with this spell if not used useful? Summon some pals for bowling, some lads for a dnd-session? Pact of Chain is made for this and nothing else :(
Oh yeah, the guy who thought using 3 familiars to do the same thing as 1 familiar but using up spellslots and concentrations was game breaking.
You still holding onto that opinion?
3 Owls < 1 Imp. So I don't see your problem.
I can just see a high level enemy sending ten cats and using them to cast shocking grasp against a small party
That sounds fun, but is probably not as over powered as you are imagining. Casting a spell through a familiar does not duplicate the spell for multiple familiars. You can only send 1 spell through 1 familiar to 1 target.
Just want to point out that the part I emboldened would be bending the rules to a huge degree. Summoning an Imp, Pseudodragon, Quasit or Sprite can only be done with the Find Familiar spell that they get as their 3rd level Pact Boon ability. You would not be able to summon these creatures with Flock of Familiars under RAW, and yes, house-ruling that you could do so would be extremely broken.
Yes, but the party doesn't know which one is going to attack and they can all do help actions. There's also other touch damaging spells if needed.
In my experience, having something occupy your Concentration is a huge mitigating factor. It does seem like the spell isn't perfectly balanced, but D&D isn't really super balanced to begin with...
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Flock of Familiars is not concentration. It simply lasts 1 hour, like Disguise self, for example.
And by RAW, Flock of Familiars lets you summon 3 familiars as if you were casting the Find Familiar spell. So you could technically summon Imps, Quasits etc. If you are a pact of the chain Warlock.
You temporarily summon three familiars – spirits that take animal forms of your choice. Each familiar uses the same rules and options for a familiar conjured by the Find Familiar spell. All the familiars conjured by this spell must be the same type of creature (celestials, fey, or fiends; your choice).
It's very powerful for Pact of the Chain warlocks. But you have to consider they essentially built their characters for this, and they have limited spell slots. It's something to be used once per adventure, maybe twice, and performs a very useful scouting function, maybe some "Help" actions in combat, and that is about it. You can only make one of them attack per round, and they have 10HP, so if they get caught by pretty much ANYTHING they are dead.
I think with a reasonable DM and player this spell works fine. Abusers will break it, but I think that is more of a player problem than a problem with the spell itself. Players who abuse mechanics will find ways to do it.
I like this spell and I think it fits the theme of the Chain warlock or Conjuration Wizard more than anything in the game.
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Flock of Familiars absolutely does require concentration; that's what the "C" next to both the spells name and duration means.
"Pact of the Chain
You learn the find familiar spell and can cast it as a ritual. The spell doesn’t count against your number of spells known.
When you cast the spell, you can choose one of the normal forms for your familiar or one of the following special forms: imp, pseudodragon, quasit, or sprite."
This effect only happens when casting the Find Familiar spell; it does not work with Flock of Familiars.
My only real issue with Flock is that it gets a 1 MILE distance for telepathic communication, while Find only gets 100 FEET.
Flock of Familiars is a completely different spell. It's not casting Find Familiar 3 times. Pact of the Chain clearly and specifically refers to the Find Familiar spell, not just any spell that summons familiars. It's a fine line, but it's pretty cut and dry.
I would just point out here that summoning 3 owls and having them take flyby Help actions is probably better than Bless in combat.
I think the spell is fine, but just pointing out that Short Rests do not break concentration.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I would say, maybe better than Bless but it's situational. Help gives you a single advantaged attack roll which is more chance to hit, to crit and less chance to critical fail. Bless affects all attacks by increasing your chance to hit and also boosts saving throws, overall bless is going to be more useful, more so at higher levels when character have multiple attacks and are able to get more out of the action economy but also against creatures which have any effects that require a Save DC.