For a 15' Sphere that would be correct. But a 15' Cone has a radius of 15'.
Just so we're all on the same page here, the radius of a circle is the distance from the center to the outer edge. Diameter is the full distance across. Width and diameter can be used interchangeably here.
For a cone, the circle we're talking about is a slice of the cone at any point - in this case, the farthest edge from the caster.
So when you say "A 15' cone is as wide as it is long," you are saying that at it's greatest width, the diameter is 15 feet, which is a radius of 7.5.
For what it's worth, my group uses shapes to determine cones. A simple drawn polygon on roll20 and a shaped pipe-cleaner or wire at a real table. If it overlaps any part of a square, that square is affected (we've found the half square thing to be way too fiddly and ends up with cones feeling too small and weak).
For a 15' Sphere that would be correct. But a 15' Cone has a radius of 15'.
Just so we're all on the same page here, the radius of a circle is the distance from the center to the outer edge. Diameter is the full distance across. Width and diameter can be used interchangeably here.
For a cone, the circle we're talking about is a slice of the cone at any point - in this case, the farthest edge from the caster.
So when you say "A 15' cone is as wide as it is long," you are saying that at it's greatest width, the diameter is 15 feet, which is a radius of 7.5.
For what it's worth, my group uses shapes to determine cones. A simple drawn polygon on roll20 and a shaped pipe-cleaner or wire at a real table. If it overlaps any part of a square, that square is affected (we've found the half square thing to be way too fiddly and ends up with cones feeling too small and weak).
What I mean is, as in written rules.
1. 15' Cone extends from the caster to up to 15'. And at any point along its length, it is as wide as the distance from the caster. Which means, 5' away it is 5' wide, 10' is 10' and at the end it's 15' wide. Technically a slice of a circle with a radius of 15'. Burning Hands extends to up to 15' from the caster.
2. 15' Sphere extends from the caster 15' in every direction. So the Radius of the sphere is 15'. Any square that is more than half overlapped by the effect is taken as affected by the spell. Again as per RAW. Fireball is 40' across, not 20'.
3. 15' Cube is a cube which has the sides 15' long. That's the only example I can think of, where the length of the spell doesn't directly match the maximum distance away from the caster it affects.
For reference: Xanthar's Guide to Everything - DM's Tools - Spellcasting as well as Player's Handbook - Spellcasting - Area of Effect.
For a 15' Sphere that would be correct. But a 15' Cone has a radius of 15'.
Just so we're all on the same page here, the radius of a circle is the distance from the center to the outer edge. Diameter is the full distance across. Width and diameter can be used interchangeably here.
For a cone, the circle we're talking about is a slice of the cone at any point - in this case, the farthest edge from the caster.
So when you say "A 15' cone is as wide as it is long," you are saying that at it's greatest width, the diameter is 15 feet, which is a radius of 7.5.
For what it's worth, my group uses shapes to determine cones. A simple drawn polygon on roll20 and a shaped pipe-cleaner or wire at a real table. If it overlaps any part of a square, that square is affected (we've found the half square thing to be way too fiddly and ends up with cones feeling too small and weak).
1. 15' Cone extends from the caster to up to 15'. And at any point along its length, it is as wide as the distance from the caster. Which means, 5' away it is 5' wide, 10' is 10' and at the end it's 15' wide. Technically a slice of a circle with a radius of 15'. Burning Hands extends to up to 15' from the caster.
that first point is slightly wrong, it says as follows:
"an cone extends in an direction you choose from its point of origin, A cones width at any given point along its length is equal to that points distance from the point of origin", or in other words at 2 feet of this imaginary line, i could make a cross section and i would find an circle with an diameter of 2 feet, at 10 feet away on the circle it should go 5 feet in ether direction, so really what it should look like is that the cone has like an flat end, if you cast burning hands it should look like the fire is getting blocked by an invisible wall about 15 feet away that is at an 90 degree angle from the imaginary line of the spell, an from above cross section of an dnd spell cone should be an perfectly normal triangle with two 67.5 degree angles and one 45 degree angles, and the furthest point away from the point of origin burning hands or another 15 ft spell cone will go is exactly the square root of 281.25 feet, somewhere arround 16 or 17 feet away, it is an cone shape, not an cone shape with half an orb attached to the end, see the also the illustration in chapter 10 and the cones illustrated in xanatars guide to everything for an more accurate picture of what this looks like, not at all how you described it
that being said you are otherwise correct and accurate with how cubes and spheres work
Technically a slice of a circle with a radius of 15'.
OHHHH. The confusion here is that you're modeling a cone as if it's a slice of a sphere with the caster at the center. As artifice points out, this is not technically correct and puts your reference to radius somewhere between ambiguous and misleading because a cone has its own radius value.
A cone is a three-dimensional shape with a point at one end and a flat circle at the other. The radius of a cone is the radius of that flat circle (or any cross section parallel to that circle), not the line that describes it's length (or height depending on your orientation). Thus the widest end of a 15' cone - what you would see if someone 15' directly above you cast a cone in your direction - can be described as a circle with a diameter of 15' and a radius of 7.5'.
A cone in D&D 5e is an isosceles triangle not a slice of a circle. I am not sure where the idea of a slice of a crcle/sphere came from in the first place. Regardless the topic was created initially in 2019, regarding how to transition the cone shapes into 5ft grid. It has been long since answered for me.
Cone has a point of origin and is spreading only horizontally, from what I know. Depending how long a cone is, it is also as wide. End of story. What is tricky, is to remember which value is being used to determine spell size. For cone its the distance it travels from the point of origin. For spheres it is the radius from the point of origin. Walls use either a line or in some cases predetermined radius of circles. Cubes refer to the length of the side.
A cone in D&D 5e is an isosceles triangle not a slice of a circle. I am not sure where the idea of a slice of a crcle/sphere came from in the first place. Regardless the topic was created initially in 2019, regarding how to transition the cone shapes into 5ft grid. It has been long since answered for me.
Cone has a point of origin and is spreading only horizontally, from what I know. Depending how long a cone is, it is also as wide. End of story. What is tricky, is to remember which value is being used to determine spell size. For cone its the distance it travels from the point of origin. For spheres it is the radius from the point of origin. Walls use either a line or in some cases predetermined radius of circles. Cubes refer to the length of the side.
A cone is not a triangle. It is a cone. Its cross-sectional shape at any point along its length is a circle with a diameter equal to its distance from the the effect’s origin. No one is saying a cone is a slice of a circle. Rather, a slice of a cone is a circle, because that’s what a cone is.
A cone in D&D 5e is an isosceles triangle not a slice of a circle. I am not sure where the idea of a slice of a crcle/sphere came from in the first place. Regardless the topic was created initially in 2019, regarding how to transition the cone shapes into 5ft grid. It has been long since answered for me.
Cone has a point of origin and is spreading only horizontally, from what I know. Depending how long a cone is, it is also as wide. End of story. What is tricky, is to remember which value is being used to determine spell size. For cone its the distance it travels from the point of origin. For spheres it is the radius from the point of origin. Walls use either a line or in some cases predetermined radius of circles. Cubes refer to the length of the side.
A cone is not a triangle. It is a cone. Its cross-sectional shape at any point along its length is a circle with a diameter equal to its distance from the the effect’s origin. No one is saying a cone is a slice of a circle. Rather, a slice of a cone is a circle, because that’s what a cone is.
You are merely looking at it from a different angle.
A cone from the top (I believe the most viewed angle using maps or grids) is a triangle.
A cone coming at your face is a circle.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
The significant point that I’m addressing is that a cone “is spreading only horizontally.” Such an assertion is based on the stated, false idea that that a cone is not a cone but a triangle.
A cone projected into a plane can indeed appear to be a triangle or a circle or an area bounded by a parabola, etc. but that does not mean that a cone is any of those things.
That cones are cones and not triangles is why if an enemy is flying 15 feet above me and 15 feet away laterally, my Burning Hands will hit them just as it does the second enemy on the ground directly under them.
That a third dimension is rarely relevant doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, and if a DM told me I couldn’t Burning Hands both of those enemies because a cone only spreads horizontally, I’d smack them with my copy of Euclid’s Elements and also the PHB.
The significant point that I’m addressing is that a cone “is spreading only horizontally.” Such an assertion is based on the stated, false idea that that a cone is not a cone but a triangle.
A cone projected into a plane can indeed appear to be a triangle or a circle or an area bounded by a parabola, etc. but that does not mean that a cone is any of those things.
That cones are cones and not triangles is why if an enemy is flying 15 feet above me and 15 feet away laterally, my Burning Hands will hit them just as it does the second enemy on the ground directly under them.
That a third dimension is rarely relevant doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, and if a DM told me I couldn’t Burning Hands both of those enemies because a cone only spreads horizontally, I’d smack them with my copy of Euclid’s Elements and also the PHB.
I agree with the general sentiment, but if they're 15ft laterally and 15ft up they're about 5ft out of range.
The significant point that I’m addressing is that a cone “is spreading only horizontally.” Such an assertion is based on the stated, false idea that that a cone is not a cone but a triangle.
A cone projected into a plane can indeed appear to be a triangle or a circle or an area bounded by a parabola, etc. but that does not mean that a cone is any of those things.
That cones are cones and not triangles is why if an enemy is flying 15 feet above me and 15 feet away laterally, my Burning Hands will hit them just as it does the second enemy on the ground directly under them.
That a third dimension is rarely relevant doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, and if a DM told me I couldn’t Burning Hands both of those enemies because a cone only spreads horizontally, I’d smack them with my copy of Euclid’s Elements and also the PHB.
Oh, we are talking about this circle in the vertical meaning? I feel dumb now :D Well duh... If it's 15'across, then it is a Radius of 7.5'.
7.5 feet, in fact; I've committed the radius vs. diameter sin, thank you for pointing it out XD
To be fair, if we're assuming the caster is 5-6 feet tall and not prone, that cone's starting about 4 feet above the ground too.
Anyways I totally agree that the height of a cone matters which is I made handy 15, 30 and 60 feet templates that have cross-sections at every 5 foot increment to help my players out.
7.5 feet, in fact; I've committed the radius vs. diameter sin, thank you for pointing it out XD
To be fair, if we're assuming the caster is 5-6 feet tall and not prone, that cone's starting about 4 feet above the ground too.
Anyways I totally agree that the height of a cone matters which is I made handy 15, 30 and 60 feet templates that have cross-sections at every 5 foot increment to help my players out.
But, in game, it should be about agreement form the DM and the players
The game is more specific about a cone (there is a whole description of them). A cone in 5e is strictly as wide at a given distance from its origin as that distance. That makes D&D5e cones specifically 53ish° cones (cones with angles of 2*tan-1(0.5), I think). I do agree that interpretation of that shape on a square grid does require some arbitration, and hopefully agreement between players. Between the PHB and XGtE, there are several good ways to arbitrate cones which can be selected on group preference.
Area effects that are not cubic do not directly map to square maps. Best to simply use hex spaces, it works better in general.
If you do not use hexes, then calculate area using math formula. Book says width = length at all times, so it is in effect, so a cone (skipping the math) has an area of length x length/2. Total area for a 30 ft cone would be 450 ft or 18 squares.
Take the total area and let the player hand draw any a) triangular shape (each 5ft away must be = to or greater than last) that, b) occupies 18 squares, c) none of which may be more than 30 ft/6 squares from the caster, and d) comes to a 'point' (one square) - that originates at the player's space. Typically the 18 squares are in the form of 1,2,3,3,4,5. Though occasionally they choose 1,2,2,3,4,6, or even 1,2,2,3,5,5
For a 15 ft cone, math comes out to 4.5 squares, I generally let them pick 5 squares, again, no more than 15 ft/3 squares away from caster. That is either 1,1,3, or 1,2,2.
Basically, I let the player do what they want as long as it looks like a cone of the appropriate length to me.
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if in doubt, use the guidelines in XGE since they are the most clear
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Just so we're all on the same page here, the radius of a circle is the distance from the center to the outer edge. Diameter is the full distance across. Width and diameter can be used interchangeably here.
For a cone, the circle we're talking about is a slice of the cone at any point - in this case, the farthest edge from the caster.
So when you say "A 15' cone is as wide as it is long," you are saying that at it's greatest width, the diameter is 15 feet, which is a radius of 7.5.
For what it's worth, my group uses shapes to determine cones. A simple drawn polygon on roll20 and a shaped pipe-cleaner or wire at a real table. If it overlaps any part of a square, that square is affected (we've found the half square thing to be way too fiddly and ends up with cones feeling too small and weak).
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
What I mean is, as in written rules.
1. 15' Cone extends from the caster to up to 15'. And at any point along its length, it is as wide as the distance from the caster. Which means, 5' away it is 5' wide, 10' is 10' and at the end it's 15' wide. Technically a slice of a circle with a radius of 15'. Burning Hands extends to up to 15' from the caster.
2. 15' Sphere extends from the caster 15' in every direction. So the Radius of the sphere is 15'. Any square that is more than half overlapped by the effect is taken as affected by the spell. Again as per RAW. Fireball is 40' across, not 20'.
3. 15' Cube is a cube which has the sides 15' long. That's the only example I can think of, where the length of the spell doesn't directly match the maximum distance away from the caster it affects.
For reference: Xanthar's Guide to Everything - DM's Tools - Spellcasting as well as Player's Handbook - Spellcasting - Area of Effect.
Edit: from point of origin, not caster obviously.
that first point is slightly wrong, it says as follows:
"an cone extends in an direction you choose from its point of origin, A cones width at any given point along its length is equal to that points distance from the point of origin", or in other words at 2 feet of this imaginary line, i could make a cross section and i would find an circle with an diameter of 2 feet, at 10 feet away on the circle it should go 5 feet in ether direction, so really what it should look like is that the cone has like an flat end, if you cast burning hands it should look like the fire is getting blocked by an invisible wall about 15 feet away that is at an 90 degree angle from the imaginary line of the spell, an from above cross section of an dnd spell cone should be an perfectly normal triangle with two 67.5 degree angles and one 45 degree angles, and the furthest point away from the point of origin burning hands or another 15 ft spell cone will go is exactly the square root of 281.25 feet, somewhere arround 16 or 17 feet away, it is an cone shape, not an cone shape with half an orb attached to the end, see the also the illustration in chapter 10 and the cones illustrated in xanatars guide to everything for an more accurate picture of what this looks like, not at all how you described it
that being said you are otherwise correct and accurate with how cubes and spheres work
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
OHHHH. The confusion here is that you're modeling a cone as if it's a slice of a sphere with the caster at the center. As artifice points out, this is not technically correct and puts your reference to radius somewhere between ambiguous and misleading because a cone has its own radius value.
A cone is a three-dimensional shape with a point at one end and a flat circle at the other. The radius of a cone is the radius of that flat circle (or any cross section parallel to that circle), not the line that describes it's length (or height depending on your orientation). Thus the widest end of a 15' cone - what you would see if someone 15' directly above you cast a cone in your direction - can be described as a circle with a diameter of 15' and a radius of 7.5'.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Cones should have ice cream in them...
this is the only statement on this thread everyone can agree on
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
A cone in D&D 5e is an isosceles triangle not a slice of a circle. I am not sure where the idea of a slice of a crcle/sphere came from in the first place. Regardless the topic was created initially in 2019, regarding how to transition the cone shapes into 5ft grid. It has been long since answered for me.
Cone has a point of origin and is spreading only horizontally, from what I know. Depending how long a cone is, it is also as wide. End of story. What is tricky, is to remember which value is being used to determine spell size. For cone its the distance it travels from the point of origin. For spheres it is the radius from the point of origin. Walls use either a line or in some cases predetermined radius of circles. Cubes refer to the length of the side.
A cone is not a triangle. It is a cone. Its cross-sectional shape at any point along its length is a circle with a diameter equal to its distance from the the effect’s origin. No one is saying a cone is a slice of a circle. Rather, a slice of a cone is a circle, because that’s what a cone is.
Neat.
You are merely looking at it from a different angle.
A cone from the top (I believe the most viewed angle using maps or grids) is a triangle.
A cone coming at your face is a circle.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
The significant point that I’m addressing is that a cone “is spreading only horizontally.” Such an assertion is based on the stated, false idea that that a cone is not a cone but a triangle.
A cone projected into a plane can indeed appear to be a triangle or a circle or an area bounded by a parabola, etc. but that does not mean that a cone is any of those things.
That cones are cones and not triangles is why if an enemy is flying 15 feet above me and 15 feet away laterally, my Burning Hands will hit them just as it does the second enemy on the ground directly under them.
That a third dimension is rarely relevant doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, and if a DM told me I couldn’t Burning Hands both of those enemies because a cone only spreads horizontally, I’d smack them with my copy of Euclid’s Elements and also the PHB.
I agree with the general sentiment, but if they're 15ft laterally and 15ft up they're about 5ft out of range.
7.5 feet, in fact; I've committed the radius vs. diameter sin, thank you for pointing it out XD
Oh, we are talking about this circle in the vertical meaning? I feel dumb now :D Well duh... If it's 15'across, then it is a Radius of 7.5'.
To be fair, if we're assuming the caster is 5-6 feet tall and not prone, that cone's starting about 4 feet above the ground too.
Anyways I totally agree that the height of a cone matters which is I made handy 15, 30 and 60 feet templates that have cross-sections at every 5 foot increment to help my players out.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
You mean 10 foot increments. :)
Bassically, under 180° width is called cone
But, in game, it should be about agreement form the DM and the players
The game is more specific about a cone (there is a whole description of them). A cone in 5e is strictly as wide at a given distance from its origin as that distance. That makes D&D5e cones specifically 53ish° cones (cones with angles of 2*tan-1(0.5), I think). I do agree that interpretation of that shape on a square grid does require some arbitration, and hopefully agreement between players. Between the PHB and XGtE, there are several good ways to arbitrate cones which can be selected on group preference.
I use these rules:
For a 15 ft cone, math comes out to 4.5 squares, I generally let them pick 5 squares, again, no more than 15 ft/3 squares away from caster. That is either 1,1,3, or 1,2,2.
Basically, I let the player do what they want as long as it looks like a cone of the appropriate length to me.