Alright my head hurts lets do this. Race: Kobold (You could also technically do Goblin for a maximum of 20 more maximum damage, trust me though Kobold is worth it) 20+ Charisma, Not hard to get. at least 13 dex (some of you can already see where this is going from just this alone) Take 5 levels of Warlock, Guess what Its everyone's favorite overpowered subclass Hexblade Pact of the Chain, probably best to make your familiar something unassuming. Agonizing Blast and Maddening Hex 2 levels of fighter for action surge 3 levels of Rogue may as well take assassin (This is why Kobold and pact of the Chain) Dump the last 10 into Sorcerer Origin doesn't change anything (unless something comes out that updates Draconic to have gem ancestry, in which case take Amethyst immediately) Quickened Spell The only feat you may absolutely need to consider is Metamagic Adept for 2 more sorc points. Its good to have, not really mandatory you can already cast Eldritch Blast as a bonus action for 5 rounds and that's without converting any spell slots.
Now for the combo: 1st Turn Move your familiar to be within 5 feet of the target creature (If your DM won't count it as an ally, you have friends, odds are one of them is tanky and can also stand within 5 feet of it) Cast hex or use your hexblade's curse, either works both have benefits. Eldritch Blast + Sneak Attack (Autocrits if Surprise and hit) QS Eldritch Blast
2nd Turn Cast whichever you didn't use the previous round between hex or hexblade's curse. Eldritch Blast + Sneak Attack QS Eldritch Blast
Proceed to do this until you run out of spell slots to use and convert then shortrest. If you really feel like it you can just burst something down in one round with 36 critical beams of death in a surprise round Please feel free to let me know if I missed a magic item or something that gives +3s to attack and damage rolls with spells, I honestly couldn't find one. I don't feel like trying to calculate average Damage per round when every spell attack is done at advantage because kobold, and I think that's fair.
Additional funfact note: At one point I actually tried to make ranger work in this with the favored foe, and monster slayer's prey. Technically you can increase the damage with these, but by the time you get to them, because they're both bonus actions, it would be round 5 of combat. If combat lasts 5 rounds, you probably need to heal or something has probably gotten in your way. On top of that, taking ranger instead of those 1-3 levels being more sorcery levels means you have less sorcery points and less spell slots. You're already a esentially a 50/50 split of Martial and Caster so you really want to hold onto those spell slots.
P.S. Before someone says it, no Haste does not let you cast it again. It specifies almost every action except Cast a Spell.
So much wrong with this post I don't even know where to start....
You CANNOT combine Eldritch Blast and Sneak Attack. Sneak attack only triggers from weapon attacks, more specifically finesse or ranged weapons.
You CANNOT cast Hex and Quicken Spell Eldritch Blast on the same turn.
You CANNOT use Hexblade's Curse and Quicken Spell Eldritch Blast on the same turn.
You CANNOT get 36 beams of critical death in a surprise round. You can fire 16 beams at most per round (4 for your Action, 4 for Action Surge, 4 for Bonus Action and 4 as an Attack of Opportunity if you took the Warcaster feat).
You CANNOT combine Favored Foe with Hex because they both require concentration.
There are probably more errors but I'm sick of typing CANNOT.
Nowhere in sneak attack does it specify weapon attacks. It says attack roll not a weapon attack roll. A spell attack with advantage granted by pack tactics would count.
I already stated that adding ranger failed for multiple reasons.
And you can get the 36 in a surprise round if you count the following actual round as the same round. There's no harm in adding that.
The only thing you're right about here is that you cant use the hexes and quickenspell
Beginning at 1st level, you know how to strike subtly and exploit a foe’s distraction. Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you hav e advantage on the attack roll. The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon.
Nowhere in sneak attack does it specify weapon attacks. It says attack roll not a weapon attack roll. A spell attack with advantage granted by pack tactics would count.
I already stated that adding ranger failed for multiple reasons.
And you can get the 36 in a surprise round if you count the following actual round as the same round. There's no harm in adding that.
The only thing you're right about here is that you cant use the hexes and quickenspell
The only thing I'm right about was was Hex and Quicken Spell? Alright lets play your game some more. Please enlighten me on how you get 36 beams? Being generous you can generate 16 max per round, double that and its still only 32.
You already got corrected again about Sneak Attack by somebody else so not gonna bother here.
Favored Foe you specifically said: "Technically you can increase the damage with these, but by the time you get to them, because they're both bonus actions, it would be round 5 of combat." This is not the case because as I pointed out you cannot stack Hex and Favored Foe because they both require CONCENTRATION.
IDK why we'd use a rapier but sure, that is an option if you just like rapiers or something.
If you made all 4 of those attacks with a rapier, assuming it wasn't magical I guess... that'd be: 12d10+12d6+60, from EBs, then 4d8+4d6+20+5d6 from rapier and sneak attack.
Totals: 12d10+19d6+4d8+80. Avg. 230.5
I still think the Amethyst Dragonborn option is better so we can dump the AOE 4d10 per attack. But, if we combo them and just use one rapier attack and the other 3 are breaths, we'd get: 12d10+12d6+60, from EBs still, then 12d10 from 3 breaths and 1d8+1d6+5+5d6 from rapier sneak.
You could also increase the chance of those breaths if you give a target disadvantage on Dex Saves with Hex.
Also it was a rapier because its got 1d8 where the other finesse weapons have 1d6 or 1d4. Its still ultimately up to whoever, frankly I'd use a 1d6 scimitar myself. honestly at this point its kinda pulling away from the initial question of "Eldritch Blast's Full Potential" Your Idea is still valid and cool though.
You could also increase the chance of those breaths if you give a target disadvantage on Dex Saves with Hex.
Hex doesn't affect saves, only checks.
Also it was a rapier because its got 1d8 where the other finesse weapons have 1d6 or 1d4. Its still ultimately up to whoever, frankly I'd use a 1d6 scimitar myself. honestly at this point its kinda pulling away from the initial question of "Eldritch Blast's Full Potential" Your Idea is still valid and cool though.
Oh, right, well, this hypothetical would be a hexblade and so using a hex weapon. It needn't be finesse since he'd be attacking with Cha mod. But, yeah, any weapon would work. You could even got pact of the blade and invest more into warlock and be shooting with a bow and using your cha mod.
But yeah, your rough limit for maximum potential EB is going to be 12 EBs that all do 1d10+Cha mod and then trigger some sort of +Dice effect, hex being the easiest. So 12d10+12d6+60. But only that once from action surge. Every turn thereafter you'd 'only' be able to squeeze out 8d10+8d6+40.
You CANNOT cast Hex and Quicken Spell Eldritch Blast on the same turn. NO BUT YOU CAN QUICKEN HEX AND THEN CAST ELDRITCH BLAST WHICH IS THE SAME THING
You CANNOT use Hexblade's Curse and Quicken Spell Eldritch Blast on the same turn. YES ACTUALLY YOU CAN :-)
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There are probably more errors but I'm sick of typing CANNOT.
My god really another one?
How in the blue hells do you Quicken Spell Hex when it already requires a Bonus Action to cast?
How in the purple hells do you use Hexblade's Curse and Quicken Spell Eldritch Blast on the same turn when they both require a Bonus Action?
Seriously people this is the game rules and mechanics section of the forum, please stop posting blatantly wrong things here.
I suspect they meant you can Hex +EB on the same turn, and you could then later Hexblade Curse + EB on another later turn. It was a little sloppy how it was worded but that seemed to be their intent. "Quicken" just wouldn't be involved in either of those cases since Hex and the HB Curse are already just bonus actions by default.
You CANNOT cast Hex and Quicken Spell Eldritch Blast on the same turn. NO BUT YOU CAN QUICKEN HEX AND THEN CAST ELDRITCH BLAST WHICH IS THE SAME THING
You CANNOT use Hexblade's Curse and Quicken Spell Eldritch Blast on the same turn. YES ACTUALLY YOU CAN :-)
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...
There are probably more errors but I'm sick of typing CANNOT.
My god really another one?
How in the blue hells do you Quicken Spell Hex when it already requires a Bonus Action to cast?
How in the purple hells do you use Hexblade's Curse and Quicken Spell Eldritch Blast on the same turn when they both require a Bonus Action?
Seriously people this is the game rules and mechanics section of the forum, please stop posting blatantly wrong things here.
I suspect they meant you can Hex +EB on the same turn, and you could then later Hexblade Curse + EB on another later turn. It was a little sloppy how it was worded but that seemed to be their intent. "Quicken" just wouldn't be involved in either of those cases since Hex and the HB Curse are already just bonus actions by default.
Yeah, wasn't thinking clearly. Hex + EB doesn't need quicken spell and Hexblade Curse + EB doesn't need quicken spell. Both are legit combos on a given turn.
Swarmkeeper Ranger's Gathered Swarm feature can be a fun addition to EB. An extra 1d6 damage, moving the target up to 15 feet, or moving yourself gives you some flexibility.
Although the classes don't fit together particularly well, you can pick spells that don't require wisdom like Goodberry and the swarm theme can be fun when paired with warlock.
Yeah, wasn't thinking clearly. Hex + EB doesn't need quicken spell and Hexblade Curse + EB doesn't need quicken spell. Both are legit combos on a given turn.
Yes those are legitimate combos. If you ONLY do Hex/Hexblades Curse + EB.
However the guy was claiming he could do EB + quickened EB + Hex on the same turn and thus got told that you CANNOT do that. And that's the "CANNOT" that you had objections to.
Before Kobold with Pack Tactics, you have the standard 1/20 (5%) chance to crit, With pact tactics before Hexblade curse you have a 1/10 (10%) chance. After Hexblade's Curse it becomes a 1/5 (20%). With a Luck Point its closer to roughly 1/3 (30%)
This is a good rule of thumb but I figured I plop down the actual math for this here.
Let's compare a normal hits chance to crit, 1/20 (5%) to an attack with advantage. To find the advantage attack's chance to crit, to find the chance to crit with advantage it's actually faster to find the chance to not-crit, then, you know, subtract from 100%.
You have a 19 out of 20 chance to not-crit per die (95%). So we can simply multiply these odds together. Because any roll of 1-19 plus any other roll of 1-19 on the second die... is a not-crit. So .95*.95 is .9025. Which means we have a 9.75% chance to crit if we're attacking at advantage. Very close to the rough guestimate of 10% you had listed.
This difference between guestimate and actual figure grows a little as we compound additional options, though. Let's look at the Hexblade Cursed target, while attacking at advantage. Our odds of a not-crit are now 1-18 times 1-18 on the roll. Or .9*.9. This gives us a 19% chance to crit with 19-20 crit range at advantage. Still very close, good enough for government work, to your guestimate of 20%.
And, finally, if we factor in Lucky, we have 3 rolls of 1-18 for us to not-crit. That's .9*.9*.9, or, 27.1% chance to crit if we're burning our lucky reroll on a 19-20 crit range while at advantage.
The reason we get further and further away from the numbers you listed is because with each of these compounding effects a large % chance happens that we'll roll a redundant critical. Even when just rolling at advantage, we can crit on either of those d20s now. 1-20 results times 1-20, means there are 400 distinct combinations of rolls we could end up in. 1 of those 400 results is rolling a 20 on both die. 1/400 happens to be that .25% difference between your 10% guestimate and the actual calculated odds.
The best I've seen is agonizing blast and maddening hex. This allows you to add your charisma mod twice to each blast that hits a hexed target. Also, the d6 of hex gets added as well
The best I've seen is agonizing blast and maddening hex. This allows you to add your charisma mod twice to each blast that hits a hexed target. Also, the d6 of hex gets added as well
I think you misread what Maddening Hex does. You use your Bonus Action to do damage equal to your CHA mod to a cursed target and everything of your choice within 5 ft around it. It does not add damage to individual attacks.
I want to resurrect one part of this, and I understand it almost certainly isn't rules as intended, but I think there is a possibility of sneak attacking with Eldritch Blast if you've taken the Pact of the Blade Boon and the Improved Pact Weapon Invocation. Your weapon becomes your arcane focus, and so you are theoretically using it to cast your spells, meeting the requirement of "The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon."
Now, there are plenty of reasons this probably doesn't work, one of which is whether or not you actually use an Arcane Focus to cast a spell: Arcane Focus only replaces the material components of non-costly spells. You don't necessarily cast spells using the focus. Eldritch Blast does not require material components. This is supported by the wording of magic items that give bonuses to spell attacks, damage, DCs etc. The say things like "when holding this item, spells you cast...".
The one place I see precedence suggesting an Arcane Focus might qualify is in the Artillerist Artificers Arcane Firearm feature: "When you cast an artificer spell through the firearm..." This damage bonus applies to a cantrip like Firebolt, which also doesn't require a material component, so in theory, you can cast all your spells, (including cantrips without material components) through your Arcane Focus, thus you are using it to cast your spells.
When I picture a wand or stave, I picture spells being channeled through them, and I imagine the Improved Pact Weapon being similar. So, if you are technically using a ranged weapon to to cast your spells, and it requires an attack, so you could interpret this as qualifying for Sneak Attack, assuming you meet the other prerequisites.
Again, I know this is a stretch, and I am sure many people are going to interpret this as not applying. I just want to state that there is a small bit of room for interpretation while keeping in RAW. I would prefer official errata to determine it definitely. All they would have to do is change the wording of Sneak Attack to say: Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with a weapon attack if you have advantage on the attack roll.
So much wrong with this post I don't even know where to start....
You CANNOT combine Eldritch Blast and Sneak Attack. Sneak attack only triggers from weapon attacks, more specifically finesse or ranged weapons.
You CANNOT cast Hex and Quicken Spell Eldritch Blast on the same turn.
You CANNOT use Hexblade's Curse and Quicken Spell Eldritch Blast on the same turn.
You CANNOT get 36 beams of critical death in a surprise round. You can fire 16 beams at most per round (4 for your Action, 4 for Action Surge, 4 for Bonus Action and 4 as an Attack of Opportunity if you took the Warcaster feat).
You CANNOT combine Favored Foe with Hex because they both require concentration.
There are probably more errors but I'm sick of typing CANNOT.
Nowhere in sneak attack does it specify weapon attacks. It says attack roll not a weapon attack roll. A spell attack with advantage granted by pack tactics would count.
I already stated that adding ranger failed for multiple reasons.
And you can get the 36 in a surprise round if you count the following actual round as the same round. There's no harm in adding that.
The only thing you're right about here is that you cant use the hexes and quickenspell
Alright how did 9 people miss that
The only thing I'm right about was was Hex and Quicken Spell? Alright lets play your game some more. Please enlighten me on how you get 36 beams? Being generous you can generate 16 max per round, double that and its still only 32.
You already got corrected again about Sneak Attack by somebody else so not gonna bother here.
Favored Foe you specifically said: "Technically you can increase the damage with these, but by the time you get to them, because they're both bonus actions, it would be round 5 of combat." This is not the case because as I pointed out you cannot stack Hex and Favored Foe because they both require CONCENTRATION.
Any more rules I need to help you clarify?
If we went my option, we could actually squeeze Sneak Attack in.
3 Fighter (Echo), 2 Warlock (hexblade), 6 Wizard (Bladesinger), and then fill the rest out as Rogue (Whatever) 9.
When we action surge, we'd have:
So that gives us 3 EBs (12 rays) and 4 regular attacks. If any of those attacks is a ranged weapon, or finesse, it'll get the +5d6 sneak attack.
I got quotes!
so you'd add 4d8 (assuming rapier) to that?
IDK why we'd use a rapier but sure, that is an option if you just like rapiers or something.
If you made all 4 of those attacks with a rapier, assuming it wasn't magical I guess... that'd be: 12d10+12d6+60, from EBs, then 4d8+4d6+20+5d6 from rapier and sneak attack.
Totals: 12d10+19d6+4d8+80. Avg. 230.5
I still think the Amethyst Dragonborn option is better so we can dump the AOE 4d10 per attack. But, if we combo them and just use one rapier attack and the other 3 are breaths, we'd get: 12d10+12d6+60, from EBs still, then 12d10 from 3 breaths and 1d8+1d6+5+5d6 from rapier sneak.
Totals: 24d10+18d6+1d8+65. Avg. 264.5
I got quotes!
You could also increase the chance of those breaths if you give a target disadvantage on Dex Saves with Hex.
Also it was a rapier because its got 1d8 where the other finesse weapons have 1d6 or 1d4. Its still ultimately up to whoever, frankly I'd use a 1d6 scimitar myself. honestly at this point its kinda pulling away from the initial question of "Eldritch Blast's Full Potential" Your Idea is still valid and cool though.
Hex doesn't affect saves, only checks.
Oh, right, well, this hypothetical would be a hexblade and so using a hex weapon. It needn't be finesse since he'd be attacking with Cha mod. But, yeah, any weapon would work. You could even got pact of the blade and invest more into warlock and be shooting with a bow and using your cha mod.
But yeah, your rough limit for maximum potential EB is going to be 12 EBs that all do 1d10+Cha mod and then trigger some sort of +Dice effect, hex being the easiest. So 12d10+12d6+60. But only that once from action surge. Every turn thereafter you'd 'only' be able to squeeze out 8d10+8d6+40.
I got quotes!
Lot's of stuff ...
My god really another one?
How in the blue hells do you Quicken Spell Hex when it already requires a Bonus Action to cast?
How in the purple hells do you use Hexblade's Curse and Quicken Spell Eldritch Blast on the same turn when they both require a Bonus Action?
Seriously people this is the game rules and mechanics section of the forum, please stop posting blatantly wrong things here.
I suspect they meant you can Hex +EB on the same turn, and you could then later Hexblade Curse + EB on another later turn. It was a little sloppy how it was worded but that seemed to be their intent. "Quicken" just wouldn't be involved in either of those cases since Hex and the HB Curse are already just bonus actions by default.
I got quotes!
Yeah, wasn't thinking clearly. Hex + EB doesn't need quicken spell and Hexblade Curse + EB doesn't need quicken spell. Both are legit combos on a given turn.
Lot's of stuff ...
Swarmkeeper Ranger's Gathered Swarm feature can be a fun addition to EB. An extra 1d6 damage, moving the target up to 15 feet, or moving yourself gives you some flexibility.
Although the classes don't fit together particularly well, you can pick spells that don't require wisdom like Goodberry and the swarm theme can be fun when paired with warlock.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Yes those are legitimate combos. If you ONLY do Hex/Hexblades Curse + EB.
However the guy was claiming he could do EB + quickened EB + Hex on the same turn and thus got told that you CANNOT do that. And that's the "CANNOT" that you had objections to.
This is a good rule of thumb but I figured I plop down the actual math for this here.
Let's compare a normal hits chance to crit, 1/20 (5%) to an attack with advantage. To find the advantage attack's chance to crit, to find the chance to crit with advantage it's actually faster to find the chance to not-crit, then, you know, subtract from 100%.
You have a 19 out of 20 chance to not-crit per die (95%). So we can simply multiply these odds together. Because any roll of 1-19 plus any other roll of 1-19 on the second die... is a not-crit. So .95*.95 is .9025. Which means we have a 9.75% chance to crit if we're attacking at advantage. Very close to the rough guestimate of 10% you had listed.
This difference between guestimate and actual figure grows a little as we compound additional options, though. Let's look at the Hexblade Cursed target, while attacking at advantage. Our odds of a not-crit are now 1-18 times 1-18 on the roll. Or .9*.9. This gives us a 19% chance to crit with 19-20 crit range at advantage. Still very close, good enough for government work, to your guestimate of 20%.
And, finally, if we factor in Lucky, we have 3 rolls of 1-18 for us to not-crit. That's .9*.9*.9, or, 27.1% chance to crit if we're burning our lucky reroll on a 19-20 crit range while at advantage.
The reason we get further and further away from the numbers you listed is because with each of these compounding effects a large % chance happens that we'll roll a redundant critical. Even when just rolling at advantage, we can crit on either of those d20s now. 1-20 results times 1-20, means there are 400 distinct combinations of rolls we could end up in. 1 of those 400 results is rolling a 20 on both die. 1/400 happens to be that .25% difference between your 10% guestimate and the actual calculated odds.
Anyway, figured I share, math is fun.
I got quotes!
The best I've seen is agonizing blast and maddening hex. This allows you to add your charisma mod twice to each blast that hits a hexed target. Also, the d6 of hex gets added as well
I think you misread what Maddening Hex does. You use your Bonus Action to do damage equal to your CHA mod to a cursed target and everything of your choice within 5 ft around it. It does not add damage to individual attacks.
I want to resurrect one part of this, and I understand it almost certainly isn't rules as intended, but I think there is a possibility of sneak attacking with Eldritch Blast if you've taken the Pact of the Blade Boon and the Improved Pact Weapon Invocation. Your weapon becomes your arcane focus, and so you are theoretically using it to cast your spells, meeting the requirement of "The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon."
Now, there are plenty of reasons this probably doesn't work, one of which is whether or not you actually use an Arcane Focus to cast a spell:
Arcane Focus only replaces the material components of non-costly spells. You don't necessarily cast spells using the focus.
Eldritch Blast does not require material components.
This is supported by the wording of magic items that give bonuses to spell attacks, damage, DCs etc. The say things like "when holding this item, spells you cast...".
The one place I see precedence suggesting an Arcane Focus might qualify is in the Artillerist Artificers Arcane Firearm feature: "When you cast an artificer spell through the firearm..." This damage bonus applies to a cantrip like Firebolt, which also doesn't require a material component, so in theory, you can cast all your spells, (including cantrips without material components) through your Arcane Focus, thus you are using it to cast your spells.
When I picture a wand or stave, I picture spells being channeled through them, and I imagine the Improved Pact Weapon being similar. So, if you are technically using a ranged weapon to to cast your spells, and it requires an attack, so you could interpret this as qualifying for Sneak Attack, assuming you meet the other prerequisites.
Again, I know this is a stretch, and I am sure many people are going to interpret this as not applying. I just want to state that there is a small bit of room for interpretation while keeping in RAW. I would prefer official errata to determine it definitely. All they would have to do is change the wording of Sneak Attack to say: Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with a weapon attack if you have advantage on the attack roll.