Hello all,

Just curious, can a Bard use his Cutting Words to lower an enemy's Saving Throw?

Thanks 

Chris

No. The three main types of d20 roll are ability checks, attack rolls, and saving throws. They’re all different from one another, and anything affects one doesn’t affect the other two unless it explicitly says so.

Nope. You can lower the damage, though. An ability check is one where you roll a d20 and add the relevant Ability mod, but is not an attack roll or saving throw. Skill checks, rolling for initiative, and spellcasting ability checks like for Dispel Magic and Counterspell, are all ability checks, though.

There really are no “skill checks” there are just ability checks that you can add proficiency to with an applicable (Skill) and those that you cannot. Calling them “Skill Checks” leads to exactly these kinds of misunderstandings IMHO.

Thanks all.. that will make an upcoming fight for my party more difficult.. lol.

But I assumed it wouldn't work. Yes, I used to play much older editions, and my terminology is far from accurate. 

No worries, that’s what the forums are here for. happy to help.

Quote from IamSposta >>

There really are no “skill checks” there are just ability checks that you can add proficiency to with an applicable (Skill) and those that you cannot. Calling them “Skill Checks” leads to exactly these kinds of misunderstandings IMHO.

 
Skill checks is easier to say than "ability check using skill proficiency bonus if you're proficient and any other modifiers relative to that skill".

It's nice to have in the head, "skill check = check skills section". It's been common parlance for this reason since 3rd edition.

If anything is confusing it's attack rolls and saving throws not counting as ability checks because it makes more sense that "ability check" is a roll that adds Ability mod. But it's not the case. So to me, saying "attack rolls, saving throws and skill checks" is more clear than going "ability rolls are these, but not that or that".

To each their own.

Quote from Cyb3rM1nd >>

Quote from IamSposta >>

There really are no “skill checks” there are just ability checks that you can add proficiency to with an applicable (Skill) and those that you cannot. Calling them “Skill Checks” leads to exactly these kinds of misunderstandings IMHO.

 
Skill checks is easier to say than "ability check using skill proficiency bonus if you're proficient and any other modifiers relative to that skill".

It's nice to have in the head, "skill check = check skills section". It's been common parlance for this reason since 3rd edition.

If anything is confusing it's attack rolls and saving throws not counting as ability checks because it makes more sense that "ability check" is a roll that adds Ability mod. But it's not the case. So to me, saying "attack rolls, saving throws and skill checks" is more clear than going "ability rolls are these, but not that or that".

To each their own.

 That’s fair. But that’s why I call them “Ability Checks” instead of “Ability Rolls.” It’s still Checks/Saves/Attacks, but hopefully prevents people thinking that all “checks” require “skills.”

One thing I did not realize until I had a DDB bard is that Initiative is however an Ability Check since it is affected by Jack of All Trades.  

Quote from Falconcry >>

One thing I did not realize until I had a DDB bard is that Initiative is however an Ability Check since it is affected by Jack of All Trades.  

 Yup, just a Dex Check (no skill associated). And Concentration is a Con saving throw.