Greetings, Im a bit confused...could a Bard cast a spell as an attack, and then separately use a cantrip as an action in the same turn? Seems like this would be considered two actions, but I am not certain. Thanks in advance...
No. You get one Action on your turn, which can be used to do various things including Attack, Dash, Search, Disengage, Dodge or Cast a spell.
The exception to this is spells which have a cast time of Bonus Action instead of Action. You can fire off one of these without using your Action, and then in the same turn use your Action to cast a cantrip as well.
Just be aware that if you use your Bonus Action to cast any spell, whether it's a Cantrop or a leveled spell, the only spells you're allowed to cast with your Action would be Cantrips.
Just be aware that if you use your Bonus Action to cast any spell, whether it's a Cantrop or a leveled spell, the only spells you're allowed to cast with your Action would be Cantrips.
Just a clarification here:
”Just be aware that if you use your Bonus Action to cast any spell, whether it's a Cantrip or a leveled spell, the only other spell that turn that you’d be able to cast is a Cantrip with a casting time of one Action.”
It applies retroactively as well - so if you cast a spell as an Action, no Bonus Action spells could be cast at all for the rest of the turn.
So one of my dms follows this, but one of my others won't unless I can find it in a book and show him. Would someone tell me what book and page/chapter (if possible) where I can find that info?
So one of my dms follows this, but one of my others won't unless I can find it in a book and show him. Would someone tell me what book and page/chapter (if possible) where I can find that info?
Just to give you the exact quote from the link above - under bonus action spells.
"You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action."
Or PHB p 202
"BONUS ACTION A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action."
So - IF you cast ANY spell as a bonus action (remember that cantrips are also spells) then the only spells that can be cast with your action during the same turn are cantrips with a casting time of one action.
However, this is RAW, DMs are free to play differently in their games if they want to. Allowing multiple leveled spells to be cast in a turn using bonus action and action makes spellcasters with these options more powerful. For example, a cleric could cast both spiritual weapon and spirit guardians in the first round which RAW they can not do. Or a wizard could misty step, cast shield (perhaps the opponents had some held actions to attack the wizard when they moved into sight) and fireball all on their turn. These are only possible if the DM changes the rules.
Also note that it is ONLY the casting of a bonus action spell that imposes spell casting limits. A fighter/wizard with action surge can use both actions to cast spells. However, if they also want to use a bonus action spell on that turn then the spells cast with the actions are limited to cantrips with a casting time of one action.
Thank you both Gamma and David. That dm is a stickler about what the book says and would not believe what I said until I showed him. I appreciate you help
I'm trying to follow RAW as best I can and am having trouble with interpreting spellcasting. I've got two questions for your cleric example.
1) If the cleric casts Spiritual Guardians first why can't he cast Spiritual Weapon as a bonus action?
2) Provided the RAW says you can't cast these in this order in a round does the following work?
Turn 1 He casts Spiritual Guardians (10 minutes concentration)
Turn 2 He casts Spiritual Hammer as bonus action (1 minute duration) and some cantrip (say Sacred Flame).
Turn 3 Can he cast another leveled spell? RAW states 'You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.' Potentially this would allow him to hit with the Turn 3 spell using an action, move and strike with the Spiritual Weapon using the bonus action then move the Spiritual Guardians into position using his move action. Can this happen using RAW?
I'm trying to follow RAW as best I can and am having trouble with interpreting spellcasting. I've got two questions for your cleric example.
1) If the cleric casts Spiritual Guardians first why can't he cast Spiritual Weapon as a bonus action?
2) Provided the RAW says you can't cast these in this order in a round does the following work?
Turn 1 He casts Spiritual Guardians (10 minutes concentration)
Turn 2 He casts Spiritual Hammer as bonus action (1 minute duration) and some cantrip (say Sacred Flame).
Turn 3 Can he cast another leveled spell? RAW states 'You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.' Potentially this would allow him to hit with the Turn 3 spell using an action, move and strike with the Spiritual Weapon using the bonus action then move the Spiritual Guardians into position using his move action. Can this happen using RAW?
Yes, that’s exactly how it works.
The Spirit Guardians was cast during that character’s 1st turn, and no other leveled spells were cast that turn. ✅
The Spiritual Weapon was cast during that character’s 2nd turn, and no other leveled spells were cast that turn. A Cantrip was also cast that turn. ✅
During that character’s 3rd turn, they could use their bonus action to attack with their Spiritual Weapon, and cast any spell, leveled or Cantrip, provided that spell can be cast as an Action. Attacking with the Spiritual Weapon that was already cast does not count as “casting a spell” since it was already cast the turn before. The Spirit Guardians do their thing automatically and also does not count as casting a spell since it was already cast two turn prior. In fact, the only thing technically incorrect with what you wrote is that there is no such thing as a “move action,” it’s just a move.
I'm trying to follow RAW as best I can and am having trouble with interpreting spellcasting. I've got two questions for your cleric example.
1) If the cleric casts Spiritual Guardians first why can't he cast Spiritual Weapon as a bonus action?
If you cast spirit guardians in a turn - this uses the cast a spell action AND it is not a cantrip.
The bonus action spell casting rules say that IF you cast a spell as a bonus action then the only other spells you can cast on that turn are cantrips with a casting time of one action. Since spirit guardians is NOT a cantrip with a casting time of one action then you can not cast a bonus action spell on the same turn as spirit guardians.
You can cast other spells on later turns since concentrating on a spell or taking an action/bonus action provided by a spell is not the same as casting a spell.
2) Provided the RAW says you can't cast these in this order in a round does the following work?
Turn 1 He casts Spiritual Guardians (10 minutes concentration)
Yes. No problem.
Turn 2 He casts Spiritual Hammer as bonus action (1 minute duration) and some cantrip (say Sacred Flame).
Yes. Also no problem since the spell cast on the same turn as spiritual weapon is a cantrip with a casting time of one action.
Turn 3 Can he cast another leveled spell? RAW states 'You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.' Potentially this would allow him to hit with the Turn 3 spell using an action, move and strike with the Spiritual Weapon using the bonus action then move the Spiritual Guardians into position using his move action. Can this happen using RAW?
Yes. The character can cast whatever they like on turn 3. Keep in mind that spirit guardians requires concentration so casting a different concentration spell on turn 3 would cause spirit guardians to end. Other than that, they can use their action for any of the usual things including casting another spell. They can also use their bonus action to utilize the special ability to make a bonus action attack provided by spiritual weapon.
However, keep in mind that a character only has one bonus action so if they cast healing word as a bonus action it uses the character's bonus action so that they can not also make an attack with spiritual weapon since both the spell healing word and the ability provided by the spiritual weapon spell both use the character's bonus action so you can only choose one. On the other hand, the cleric could cast cure wounds which requires an action while also making an attack with spiritual weapon.
Finally, movement isn't affected by your action or bonus action. You can take your bonus action at any point in your turn (assuming you have something you can do with your bonus action) and this can be before, after or midway through your movement. The same goes for your action, it can be taken at any time during your turn.
The only other part of clarification would be in casting another bonus action spell after spiritual weapon is up. Does this drop the spiritual weapon or merely not allow you to move and attack with it?
It was one of those scenarios I hadn't thought of until it was brought up.
The only other part of clarification would be in casting another bonus action spell after spiritual weapon is up. Does this drop the spiritual weapon or merely not allow you to move and attack with it?
It was one of those scenarios I hadn't thought of until it was brought up.
Spiritual Weapon lasts for the duration. If you use a Bonus Action for something else - you simply don't get to move or attack with it on that turn - because you only get 1 Bonus Action for your turn.
Additional question, can I cast a BA cantrip or quickened one if I have already used my action to cast a spell?
Only if the spell you used your action to cast is a cantrip. Within a given turn, a bonus action spell can only coexist with a one-action cantrip. Order does not matter to the rule.
Ohhhh. So if I casted a leveled spell with my action, I can't do a BA cantrip anymore? I have to make sure to do this in the specific order which is Action Cantrip first before BA Spell.
No, the order of operations doesn’t matter, all that matters is that the Action spell be a cantrip, regardless of whether the Bonus Action spell is a cantrip or a leveled spell.
Greetings, Im a bit confused...could a Bard cast a spell as an attack, and then separately use a cantrip as an action in the same turn? Seems like this would be considered two actions, but I am not certain. Thanks in advance...
No. You get one Action on your turn, which can be used to do various things including Attack, Dash, Search, Disengage, Dodge or Cast a spell.
The exception to this is spells which have a cast time of Bonus Action instead of Action. You can fire off one of these without using your Action, and then in the same turn use your Action to cast a cantrip as well.
Just be aware that if you use your Bonus Action to cast any spell, whether it's a Cantrop or a leveled spell, the only spells you're allowed to cast with your Action would be Cantrips.
Just a clarification here:
”Just be aware that if you use your Bonus Action to cast any spell, whether it's a Cantrip or a leveled spell, the only other spell that turn that you’d be able to cast is a Cantrip with a casting time of one Action.”
It applies retroactively as well - so if you cast a spell as an Action, no Bonus Action spells could be cast at all for the rest of the turn.
So one of my dms follows this, but one of my others won't unless I can find it in a book and show him. Would someone tell me what book and page/chapter (if possible) where I can find that info?
Basic Rules, Chapter 10: Spellcasting, Casting A Spell.
Check Licenses and Resync Entitlements: < https://www.dndbeyond.com/account/marketplace >
Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
Just to give you the exact quote from the link above - under bonus action spells.
"You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action."
Or PHB p 202
"BONUS ACTION
A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action."
So - IF you cast ANY spell as a bonus action (remember that cantrips are also spells) then the only spells that can be cast with your action during the same turn are cantrips with a casting time of one action.
However, this is RAW, DMs are free to play differently in their games if they want to. Allowing multiple leveled spells to be cast in a turn using bonus action and action makes spellcasters with these options more powerful. For example, a cleric could cast both spiritual weapon and spirit guardians in the first round which RAW they can not do. Or a wizard could misty step, cast shield (perhaps the opponents had some held actions to attack the wizard when they moved into sight) and fireball all on their turn. These are only possible if the DM changes the rules.
Also note that it is ONLY the casting of a bonus action spell that imposes spell casting limits. A fighter/wizard with action surge can use both actions to cast spells. However, if they also want to use a bonus action spell on that turn then the spells cast with the actions are limited to cantrips with a casting time of one action.
Thank you both Gamma and David. That dm is a stickler about what the book says and would not believe what I said until I showed him. I appreciate you help
David42,
I'm trying to follow RAW as best I can and am having trouble with interpreting spellcasting. I've got two questions for your cleric example.
1) If the cleric casts Spiritual Guardians first why can't he cast Spiritual Weapon as a bonus action?
2) Provided the RAW says you can't cast these in this order in a round does the following work?
Turn 1 He casts Spiritual Guardians (10 minutes concentration)
Turn 2 He casts Spiritual Hammer as bonus action (1 minute duration) and some cantrip (say Sacred Flame).
Turn 3 Can he cast another leveled spell? RAW states 'You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.' Potentially this would allow him to hit with the Turn 3 spell using an action, move and strike with the Spiritual Weapon using the bonus action then move the Spiritual Guardians into position using his move action. Can this happen using RAW?
Yes, that’s exactly how it works.
The Spirit Guardians was cast during that character’s 1st turn, and no other leveled spells were cast that turn. ✅
The Spiritual Weapon was cast during that character’s 2nd turn, and no other leveled spells were cast that turn. A Cantrip was also cast that turn. ✅
During that character’s 3rd turn, they could use their bonus action to attack with their Spiritual Weapon, and cast any spell, leveled or Cantrip, provided that spell can be cast as an Action. Attacking with the Spiritual Weapon that was already cast does not count as “casting a spell” since it was already cast the turn before. The Spirit Guardians do their thing automatically and also does not count as casting a spell since it was already cast two turn prior. In fact, the only thing technically incorrect with what you wrote is that there is no such thing as a “move action,” it’s just a move.
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If you cast spirit guardians in a turn - this uses the cast a spell action AND it is not a cantrip.
The bonus action spell casting rules say that IF you cast a spell as a bonus action then the only other spells you can cast on that turn are cantrips with a casting time of one action. Since spirit guardians is NOT a cantrip with a casting time of one action then you can not cast a bonus action spell on the same turn as spirit guardians.
You can cast other spells on later turns since concentrating on a spell or taking an action/bonus action provided by a spell is not the same as casting a spell.
Yes. No problem.
Yes. Also no problem since the spell cast on the same turn as spiritual weapon is a cantrip with a casting time of one action.
Yes. The character can cast whatever they like on turn 3. Keep in mind that spirit guardians requires concentration so casting a different concentration spell on turn 3 would cause spirit guardians to end. Other than that, they can use their action for any of the usual things including casting another spell. They can also use their bonus action to utilize the special ability to make a bonus action attack provided by spiritual weapon.
However, keep in mind that a character only has one bonus action so if they cast healing word as a bonus action it uses the character's bonus action so that they can not also make an attack with spiritual weapon since both the spell healing word and the ability provided by the spiritual weapon spell both use the character's bonus action so you can only choose one. On the other hand, the cleric could cast cure wounds which requires an action while also making an attack with spiritual weapon.
Finally, movement isn't affected by your action or bonus action. You can take your bonus action at any point in your turn (assuming you have something you can do with your bonus action) and this can be before, after or midway through your movement. The same goes for your action, it can be taken at any time during your turn.
Thank you all for the detailed explanations.
The only other part of clarification would be in casting another bonus action spell after spiritual weapon is up. Does this drop the spiritual weapon or merely not allow you to move and attack with it?
It was one of those scenarios I hadn't thought of until it was brought up.
Spiritual Weapon lasts for the duration. If you use a Bonus Action for something else - you simply don't get to move or attack with it on that turn - because you only get 1 Bonus Action for your turn.
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That's what I figured. Thank you Emmber.
Additional question, can I cast a BA cantrip or quickened one if I have already used my action to cast a spell?
Yes.
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Only if the spell you used your action to cast is a cantrip. Within a given turn, a bonus action spell can only coexist with a one-action cantrip. Order does not matter to the rule.
Ohhhh. So if I casted a leveled spell with my action, I can't do a BA cantrip anymore? I have to make sure to do this in the specific order which is Action Cantrip first before BA Spell.
No, the order of operations doesn’t matter, all that matters is that the Action spell be a cantrip, regardless of whether the Bonus Action spell is a cantrip or a leveled spell.
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Specific question here.
Create water as an action in the air
shape water as a bonus action to change water to ice in the shape of a spike.
Allowable?