RAW, the description says "you must attack the creature that damaged you until you drop to 0 hit points or it does, or until you can’t reach the creature to make a melee attack against it." But what happens if...say...multiple creatures damage you during the "trigger," or better yet if a different creature damages you before the previous attacker drops to 0 hit points?
Does the weapon work on "recency bias," or do you ignore other attackers until the first attacker is dropped?
I'd read it that every time you take damage, it activates the ability, since it says "whenever you take damage". So if you fail the wisdom save, the new target overrides the previous one.
I would think if multiple attackers are damaging at you at the same time, you can probably go after any of them.
On a failed save, you must attack the creature that damaged you until you drop to 0 hit points or it does, or until you can’t reach the creature to make a melee attack against it.
I mean, as written, then any creature who has ever damaged you is fair game, but I doubt that is the intent.
I guess my biggest question has to do with that second scenario; namely what happens if someone else attacks the wielder before the previous attacker is downed? One the PCs just acquired one in the campaign I'm running; and it often happens that they're outnumbered. So a scenario in which the wielder is attacked prior to dropping an attacker is a likely one.
When the curse triggers "you must attack the creature that damaged you until you drop to 0 hit points or it does, or until you can’t reach the creature to make a melee attack against it." It doesn't say you can change targets when something else attacks you. The conditions of the curse are pretty clear.
So what happens if another creature attacks the wielder during the fight? That's up to the DM. I'd say that the sword is not intelligent and so has no way of keeping track of which creature attacked it when. Only once the curse has run its course can it be triggered again.
How even would multiple attackers damage you at the same time?
The goblin on initiative 20 hits me for 1 point of damage.
The wolf on initiative 18 hits me for 5 damage.
My turn is on initiative 12 and i have a sword of vengeance. I fail my saving throw. I am saying that attacking either of those targets would satisfy the written requirement.
How even would multiple attackers damage you at the same time?
The goblin on initiative 20 hits me for 1 point of damage.
The wolf on initiative 18 hits me for 5 damage.
My turn is on initiative 12 and i have a sword of vengeance. I fail my saving throw. I am saying that attacking either of those targets would satisfy the written requirement.
That’s not how the sword works, though. You make a save whenever you take damage, not on your turn after taking damage. You have to make save on count 20 when the goblin damages you; failure invokes the effect against the goblin. Then you have to make a second save on count 18. Failure invokes the effect against the wolf.
A strict reading of the item description is that you must attack both, which is clearly impossible. There’s no penalty for failing to do what’s required, however, so I guess it’s fine?
What seems to clearly be the intent is that the compulsion is applied with respect to the most recent failed save. That’s the only interpretation that makes sense in context of the curse. But it’s a very poorly-written item.
How even would multiple attackers damage you at the same time?
The goblin on initiative 20 hits me for 1 point of damage.
The wolf on initiative 18 hits me for 5 damage.
My turn is on initiative 12 and i have a sword of vengeance. I fail my saving throw. I am saying that attacking either of those targets would satisfy the written requirement.
You make your saving throw when the attack comes in. In this case when the Goblin hits you, you have to make a save. If you fail, the curse triggers and you have to fight the Goblin until the conditions of the curse are fulfilled.
The question is what happens when the Wolf hits you. Does it force another save? The wording of the item suggests that you do. If you fail the save do you change targets? The wording of the item says no, you have to keep fighting the Goblin until you go down, it goes down, or it escapes.
Once the Goblin is no longer a target, then what? That's where it gets tricky. Did you take damage from any other creatures and fail those saves? It would be perfectly reasonable to say the sword forces you to attack each creature, in the order that you failed your save against them, until they are all down or have escaped, but I don't think that was the intent.
How even would multiple attackers damage you at the same time?
The goblin on initiative 20 hits me for 1 point of damage.
The wolf on initiative 18 hits me for 5 damage.
My turn is on initiative 12 and i have a sword of vengeance. I fail my saving throw. I am saying that attacking either of those targets would satisfy the written requirement.
You make your saving throw when the attack comes in. In this case when the Goblin hits you, you have to make a save. If you fail, the curse triggers and you have to fight the Goblin until the conditions of the curse are fulfilled.
The question is what happens when the Wolf hits you. Does it force another save? The wording of the item suggests that you do. If you fail the save do you change targets? The wording of the item says no, you have to keep fighting the Goblin until you go down, it goes down, or it escapes.
Once the Goblin is no longer a target, then what? That's where it gets tricky. Did you take damage from any other creatures and fail those saves? It would be perfectly reasonable to say the sword forces you to attack each creature, in the order that you failed your save against them, until they are all down or have escaped, but I don't think that was the intent.
The triggering text says "whenever you take damage in combat", so that does mean you need to make a new save every time you're damaged by a creature. There is no text about a new save overriding a prior one, so I'd presume they all apply.
The effect ends if a triggering creature cannot be reached to make a melee attack. From the way that is worded, it seems that a creature need only be out of range (by either distance or obstacles) for a single turn to end the effect.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I'm pretty sure there is another rule about multiple identical effects not stacking and only the most recent or highest value applies. I can't look for it ATM.
I'd think it would be the most recent attacker (or the most recent failed save, more precisely). There's (what seem to me to be similar) examples of effects that when you do them a second time, the first one stops or is overridden by the most recent (Concentration spells, artificer infusions, Cavalier Fighter's unwavering mark, I'm sure there's more).
Though I do like the idea of it being everyone who ever damages you so you can be like "I've got a list."
I'm pretty sure there is another rule about multiple identical effects not stacking and only the most recent or highest value applies. I can't look for it ATM.
DMG, Chapter 8 at the very tail end of the “Combat” subsection. It was added as part of the official 2016 errata version 1.1.
Different game features can affect a target at the same time. But when two or more game features have the same name, only the effects of one of them—the most potent one—apply while the durations of the effects overlap. For example, if a target is ignited by a fire elemental’s Fire Form trait, the ongoing fire damage doesn’t increase if the burning target is subjected to that trait again. Game features include spells, class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, and magic items. See the related rule in the “Combining Magical Effects” section of chapter 10 in the Player’s Handbook.
I'm pretty sure there is another rule about multiple identical effects not stacking and only the most recent or highest value applies. I can't look for it ATM.
DMG, Chapter 8 at the very tail end of the “Combat” subsection. It was added as part of the official 2016 errata version 1.1.
Different game features can affect a target at the same time. But when two or more game features have the same name, only the effects of one of them—the most potent one—apply while the durations of the effects overlap. For example, if a target is ignited by a fire elemental’s Fire Form trait, the ongoing fire damage doesn’t increase if the burning target is subjected to that trait again. Game features include spells, class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, and magic items. See the related rule in the “Combining Magical Effects” section of chapter 10 in the Player’s Handbook.
It could be argued that the rule applies in regard to the creature(s) which damaged you. I.e., you could be under the effect of "must attack creature(s) A, B, and/or C", but not multiple instances of "must attack creature A", nor compounding the duration.
Buuut... I think the most likely result is just whichever creature has most recently damaged you.
[edit] I think the last point is more in line with the spirit of the curse itself: single-minded focus on the last target you were hit by. This can totally ruin your day if you're wanting to focus on a BBEG, but a distant minion keeps tagging you right before your turn in the initiative order...
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
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RAW, the description says "you must attack the creature that damaged you until you drop to 0 hit points or it does, or until you can’t reach the creature to make a melee attack against it." But what happens if...say...multiple creatures damage you during the "trigger," or better yet if a different creature damages you before the previous attacker drops to 0 hit points?
Does the weapon work on "recency bias," or do you ignore other attackers until the first attacker is dropped?
I'd read it that every time you take damage, it activates the ability, since it says "whenever you take damage". So if you fail the wisdom save, the new target overrides the previous one.
I would think if multiple attackers are damaging at you at the same time, you can probably go after any of them.
I mean, as written, then any creature who has ever damaged you is fair game, but I doubt that is the intent.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
How even would multiple attackers damage you at the same time?
I guess my biggest question has to do with that second scenario; namely what happens if someone else attacks the wielder before the previous attacker is downed? One the PCs just acquired one in the campaign I'm running; and it often happens that they're outnumbered. So a scenario in which the wielder is attacked prior to dropping an attacker is a likely one.
When the curse triggers "you must attack the creature that damaged you until you drop to 0 hit points or it does, or until you can’t reach the creature to make a melee attack against it." It doesn't say you can change targets when something else attacks you. The conditions of the curse are pretty clear.
So what happens if another creature attacks the wielder during the fight? That's up to the DM. I'd say that the sword is not intelligent and so has no way of keeping track of which creature attacked it when. Only once the curse has run its course can it be triggered again.
<Insert clever signature here>
"Not all those who wander are lost"
That’s not how the sword works, though. You make a save whenever you take damage, not on your turn after taking damage. You have to make save on count 20 when the goblin damages you; failure invokes the effect against the goblin. Then you have to make a second save on count 18. Failure invokes the effect against the wolf.
A strict reading of the item description is that you must attack both, which is clearly impossible. There’s no penalty for failing to do what’s required, however, so I guess it’s fine?
What seems to clearly be the intent is that the compulsion is applied with respect to the most recent failed save. That’s the only interpretation that makes sense in context of the curse. But it’s a very poorly-written item.
You make your saving throw when the attack comes in. In this case when the Goblin hits you, you have to make a save. If you fail, the curse triggers and you have to fight the Goblin until the conditions of the curse are fulfilled.
The question is what happens when the Wolf hits you. Does it force another save? The wording of the item suggests that you do. If you fail the save do you change targets? The wording of the item says no, you have to keep fighting the Goblin until you go down, it goes down, or it escapes.
Once the Goblin is no longer a target, then what? That's where it gets tricky. Did you take damage from any other creatures and fail those saves? It would be perfectly reasonable to say the sword forces you to attack each creature, in the order that you failed your save against them, until they are all down or have escaped, but I don't think that was the intent.
<Insert clever signature here>
This is what I seem to have misunderstood.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
The triggering text says "whenever you take damage in combat", so that does mean you need to make a new save every time you're damaged by a creature. There is no text about a new save overriding a prior one, so I'd presume they all apply.
The effect ends if a triggering creature cannot be reached to make a melee attack. From the way that is worded, it seems that a creature need only be out of range (by either distance or obstacles) for a single turn to end the effect.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I'm pretty sure there is another rule about multiple identical effects not stacking and only the most recent or highest value applies. I can't look for it ATM.
I'd think it would be the most recent attacker (or the most recent failed save, more precisely). There's (what seem to me to be similar) examples of effects that when you do them a second time, the first one stops or is overridden by the most recent (Concentration spells, artificer infusions, Cavalier Fighter's unwavering mark, I'm sure there's more).
Though I do like the idea of it being everyone who ever damages you so you can be like "I've got a list."
Multiple people attack someone at the same time:
3 people load, aim and fire a ballista, hitting you.
DMG, Chapter 8 at the very tail end of the “Combat” subsection. It was added as part of the official 2016 errata version 1.1.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/rules-game-mechanics/8760-official-wizards-of-the-coast-errata?comment=8
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It could be argued that the rule applies in regard to the creature(s) which damaged you. I.e., you could be under the effect of "must attack creature(s) A, B, and/or C", but not multiple instances of "must attack creature A", nor compounding the duration.
Buuut... I think the most likely result is just whichever creature has most recently damaged you.
[edit] I think the last point is more in line with the spirit of the curse itself: single-minded focus on the last target you were hit by. This can totally ruin your day if you're wanting to focus on a BBEG, but a distant minion keeps tagging you right before your turn in the initiative order...
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.